JeTmAn81
Member
It may still be in there if you go frame by frame. I could swear I've hit someone with foot dive when they were around the area of Doom's back shoulder.
Fighting Games Weekly | June 2-8 | The Final Kountdown
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It may still be in there if you go frame by frame. I could swear I've hit someone with foot dive when they were around the area of Doom's back shoulder.
That video is from the Vita version as well. I would have to do a frame by frame check.
I think even the non photoshopped Foot Dive is BS. It's much bigger than Wolverine's Dive Kick for example and pretty much any other dive like move in the game with the exception of sword dive like moves (like Helm Breaker).
Edit: I saw the video frame by frame with the best of my ability and I was unable to find a hit box extending up to his neck. Although I do not deny that Doom is more than capable of hitting you with his shoulders with the Foot Dive (usually seen against teleporters).
Karsticles
Member
That is likely due to an odd hurtbox, though. There could be like 1f where the hitbox is like that, but the video makes the hitbox look pretty clear.
irfaanator
Banned
The angle of the move gives the hitbox a larger area since the only place to hit him is to be above him, but obviously your hurtbox can collide with the hitbox if you aren't high enough
Yeah I saw his post afterwards and my point still stands. The framerate in that Youtube video is not the same as the game, which is probably why you can't see it.
It's a bit of a hassle getting hitboxes but I'll load up the Vita and make a gif of the move to show you that it isn't BS. When Frantic said it feels like the move has a hitbox around his head, that's because it does at the beginning but just for a few frames.
Karsticles
Member
I look forward to it.
Regardless, posting the full-body hitbox image is deeply misleading.
I don't think it'll happen anytime soon, and nowhere near how "simple" Project M has become to actually use. I mean for Project M you can put an SD card in a non-modded Wii and have it run, 360 homebrew is nowhere near that level.
If it applies at the first frame of the move then it's not misleading (assuming it's true, I look forward to the evidence being presented).
It would be visual evidence of the move having a hitbox up to his neck.
No gif, but I have frame by frame images instead. Note the frame count:
Wasn't entirely right admittedly, turns out it's just one frame.
Well idk, the discussion was about weird hitboxes and their graphic representation catching people off-guard, and despite it actually having a normal hitbox for most of its frames footdive was always a weird move to most somehow - that one-frame was precisely why.
Karsticles
Member
When people post an image of Doom's entire body being red, and then they say "this is the hitbox on foot dive", it is definitely misleading. He hasn't even moved at that point. In fact, it would be almost impossible to get hit by that 1f hitbox unless you crossed under him and superjumped right as he dove. You are perfectly safe crossing him under in most situations.
Also, the context of Doom wasn't about weird hitboxes. It was about fair ones in Marvel. Hence the Zero and Morrigan talk. We branched to that from the weird hitbox discussion.
What I would love is images of the hitboxes on Nemesis' command grabs. They always surprise me with what they can do, but I don't think a video was ever made for him. I would love to be proven wrong on that though.
Also, the context of Doom wasn't about weird hitboxes. It was about fair ones in Marvel. Hence the Zero and Morrigan talk. We branched to that from the weird hitbox discussion.
What I would love is images of the hitboxes on Nemesis' command grabs. They always surprise me with what they can do, but I don't think a video was ever made for him. I would love to be proven wrong on that though.
CountBlack
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
if i show up in anji cosplay and ask nicely i wonder if he'll sign my abs
Definitive proof provided on Doom's Foot Dive hitbox. Thanks for the pics.
Even if it's 1-2 frames, that is just super duper dumb. That's very relevant in real match situations just like how a move that has 1-2 frame invincibility on start up is very relevant. This makes it a risk to even be directly above Doom which is not that surprising considering how many times people teleported above Doom and got hit by that stupid ass hit box.
So I guess that original pic wasn't a Photoshop at all...
Even if it's 1-2 frames, that is just super duper dumb. That's very relevant in real match situations just like how a move that has 1-2 frame invincibility on start up is very relevant. This makes it a risk to even be directly above Doom which is not that surprising considering how many times people teleported above Doom and got hit by that stupid ass hit box.
So I guess that original pic wasn't a Photoshop at all...
Kalamari
Member
St.L, st.M, st.H, Rapid Slash and st.S have pretty absurd hitboxes. It's why Vergil is the god of anti airs with normals in Marvel 3. Helm Breaker doesn't have as absurd of a hitbox as it appears in game but it's still very generous for the type of move it is.
Bear in mind that this was the design of the character. He was supposed to have absurd normals in exchange for not being able to whiff cancel them like other characters can.
Karsticles
Member
Who the hell has teleported above Doom and gotten hit by foot dive?
It isn't dumb. It makes sense to have one frame like that so the move doesn't just float by someone who is at an odd angle right below Doom.
Block the damn move, people!
Dante players have gotten hit by it, I have seen it happen. They teleport and Doom does dash up back and Foot Dive.
If you don't see how this is dumb then I wish to never have discussion about hitboxes with you ever again.
I'd forgot about those videos, thanks!
St.L, st.M, st.H, Rapid Slash and st.S have pretty absurd hitboxes. It's why Vergil is the god of anti airs with normals in Marvel 3. Helm Breaker doesn't have as absurd of a hitbox as it appears in game but it's still very generous for the type of move it is.
Bear in mind that this was the design of the character. He was supposed to have absurd normals in exchange for not being able to whiff cancel them like other characters can.
Yeah, his st. H is probably one of the best normals in the game. And like you said, surprisingly helm breaker isn't as stupid as I thought
But it covers the space above him too. I don't think you have to defend the 1st frame hitbox to defend the game or the move. You gotta admit that it's weird that a "divekick" functions as a frame 1 "burst" attack.
Capcom games have some janky hitboxes at times. They are good despite that.
Can't count the amount of times I set up a meaty Formation A2 with Strider against incoming Doom that's very slightly mistimed, I do Vajra M, Doom airdashes upback immediately and hits j.S and I get bopped. It happens.
Always figured it was a weird hurtbox issue due to the airdash up, but I guess not.
Karsticles
Member
Dahbomb keeps saying that it happens on the first frame, but that's absolutely not true. He is confused. It happens on the first of the active frames. Big difference. There is no "burst" capacity here, if I am understanding you right.
Dante can definitely block that - lol. Unless it was a read by the Doom player, in which case: sick read. This can't happen on reaction.
I am perfectly fine with this, and I would love it if you stopped pretending that Doom's j.S is unfair because you always get hit by it. Who even complains about this in tournament play anymore? People just laugh when someone gets hit by it because it's as ridiculous as getting hit by Vergil's Helm Breaker on his incoming. j.S is even completely punishable on block if Doom has air dashed or flown since jumping - too balanced!
Dahbomb just said getting hit by j.S after teleporting. Now you are both talking about Doom air dashing up and hitting you. I say: awesome. Fuck mindless teleports, and eat a well-deserved foot dive!
Magna_Mixalis
Member
Only the PS4 version to the best of my knowledge. Also, the signing will be at the Aksys booth/meeting space, not at the Sony booth.
And please don't ask to have body parts signed. Please?!
Karsticles
Member
Calvin and Hobbes is top tier, though.
Every top player in existence has complained about Foot Dive. From Viscant, Justin to Doom players like FChamp so this is definitely a huge factor in tournament play and something that has been identified as a problem since day 1 of the game.
But nah... they are just scrubs who don't know how to block ambiguous crossed up Foot Dive.
Oh man that Doom hit someone with the top of his head using Foot Dive... SICK READ! COMPLETELY OUT PLAYED!
But nah... they are just scrubs who don't know how to block ambiguous crossed up Foot Dive.
Oh man that Doom hit someone with the top of his head using Foot Dive... SICK READ! COMPLETELY OUT PLAYED!
NoFunAllowed.jpg
I honestly don't give a shit, I'm just saying it can happen. More than anything, I hate the ridiculously ambiguous crossups it has. In some instances, I'd almost think it's unblockable, because even when I block what visually looks like a crossup, I still get hit.
Karsticles
Member
HAS complained past tense. Most people have learned and moved on. No one complains anymore aside from scrubs.
Yeah, the move can be ambiguous. So what? It is a game filled with teleports, unblockables, and chip damage for half of a life bar. Big deal. It will only be ambiguous in two situations:
1) You are approaching Doom by running under him after he has established air superiority. Your fault for putting yourself in a bad place.
2) Doom pinned you with an assist like cold star or sentinel force. Completely earned, like every other ambiguous attack in this game.
People laugh about foot dive because they know they shouldn't get hit by it. That is its meme status right now. It is in the same rank as Sentinel's unblockable c.M. Folks get bopped by it constantly, everyone laughs, and then they move on.
You can't complain about one move that crosses up ambiguously unless you want to get rid of them all along with ambiguous mixups. You don't want that, though. You just want to QQ about foot dive.
I always jump into it. If I jump up and back as Doom comes down, it never seems to cross me up. Though that is just Dormammu. When I play Firebrand I dash under Doom so he can't establish aerial dominance over me. I actually use Bon Voyage a lot for mobility against superjumps.
Professor Beef
Banned
People laugh about foot dive because it leads to a dead character after one button press, not because they think they should've avoided it.
Isnt that the same for pretty much every comboable button in marvel though?
The overall utility of the move, the safety of the move, and the fact that it encourages dumb play are reasons why people dislike it.
Karsticles
Member
Edit: Also, what people do still complain about with regard to foot dive is the extremely long hard knockdown time. I totally understand that, and IIRC we addressed it in the theory patch. I don't see folks complaining about the ambiguity.
The move isn't safe on block after an air dash or flight, which is the vast majority of the situations j.S comes out of. If Doom is just doing an protected j.S, then the move is pretty easy to avoid in the first place.
That's all well and good, but there are instances where that isn't applicable. Most of the time, I can dodge or punish Foot Dive, but in the sudden, rapid "scrambles", often times things will just happen that you can't control and then you end up eating what looks like a crossup Foot Dive even when you blocked the supposed crossup because somehow what you think is a crossup isn't actually a crossup.
Admittedly, I have no right to complain when I have multilayered setups that rely on ambiguous crossups in rapid succession. Most of the time, even I don't know which way you're supposed to block, so yeah.
The fact that he doesn't see this tells me there is no point in continuing this discussion.
I can refute all those points made but it's pointless so I will just stop here.
Karsticles
Member
I rarely feel "scrambled" against Doom. He's slow and cumbersome.
I do get the ambiguity, don't get me wrong. As Onionfrog can attest to (har har), I once made an X-Factorless comeback against his team with solo Doom at a smidge of life because I killed his first character and then killed the next two with j.S on incoming. It's strong, but it's nothing most characters don't have. The incoming mix-up is an "earned" situation, though.
Plus, if people weren't so goddamn scrubby, they would hit training mode and figure out just where it crosses up. It's like the Firebrand/Skrull unblockable. FChamp found a way out, everyone wanted to ask ApologyMan what the trick was, and he said to figure it out yourself. Same thing here. If the cross-up on foot dive frustrates you, go into training mode and figure out where the feet crosses up on your characters. Put the work in.
I can refute all of your points, but I already did, so we will stop here.
It happens, namely when you don't get a clean hit confirm and the situation is reset, or if he botches an infinite attempt and doesn't immediately try to get out, or the opponent's pressure/rushdown isn't completely tight, etc. Admittedly, the player has to be good with Doom, but those scrambles can and will happen. That's generally how top players end up winning with anchor Doom - through a scramble.
CEOJebailey
Neo Member
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www.teespring.com/ceo
Got a lot in store for CEO this year, Stream should be twice as entertaining as last year.
Karsticles
Member
I treat Doom the same way I treat Sentinel and Hulk: super dangerous, play carefully and slowly. I think they are all similar in that you can run around them and beat them in the neutral very easily 1v1, but they have nasty stuff that can catch you. I never go for resets on Doom or Sentinel, I just let them recover and return to the neutral. I notice a lot of the stuff you mention happens even in high level play, but that's the fault of the player for putting him/herself into a dangerous situation. I won't ever go for an advanced combo on these guys...unless I am playing Shuma-Gorath, since he doesn't have anything basic. -_-
No doubt, but I was talking about solo.
sixteen-bit
Member
whats this im hearing about you hearing about a TxSF leak?