They changed Wii U to Holiday 2014 and said Amiibo is launching with Smash U in Holiday 2014. I don't think they have any plans to delay it.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
They changed Wii U to Holiday 2014 and said Amiibo is launching with Smash U in Holiday 2014. I don't think they have any plans to delay it.
Dimitri LH
Member
That E3 effect bro.
Normally I'd be with you on the release being 2015, delayed or by definition, but I really doubt they'd want to miss out on this holiday for smash.
Holiday 2014 makes their intent of releasing it for the 2014 shopping season pretty clear, but delays do happen.
JediLink
Member
You know, guys, I'm usually an optimist. I want to believe and hope for the best outcome. Ever since Smash 4 was announced, tripping was deconfirmed and Sakurai said that it would be between Melee and Brawl, I had faith that this game was going to be a great one. It would unite the fandom, end the Melee vs Brawl debates once and for all, and usher in a new golden age of Smash prosperity.
I wanted to believe so hard, but given the events of the last few days, I say with a heavy heart that I can't believe any more. It isn't even necessarily just the game itself; it's Sakurai's mentality. It hasn't changed at all. He still thinks Melee was too hard (despite it being obvious bullshit and approximately 0% of the community thinking that). As long as he still has that mentality, we may never get a truly great Smash game again, at least not under his direction. There will always be that lack of understanding that leads to bizarre mechanics and nonsensical restrictions.
Melee was pretty damn-near perfect. I hope people don't have an issue with me saying that; it's one of my favourite games of all time, and their's nothing unusual about people considering their favourite games perfect. Movement in Melee was just a joy. It was intuitive, precise, and it just just felt so right. Especially characters like Captain Falcon. One you get comfortable with how he works, you can start doing things like timing your jumps and Falcon punching people in midair. When that happens, EVERYBODY gets hyped, including the guy who just lost. In what other games can you do that? In 64 you can, but definitely not Brawl and (presumably also Smash 4) due to the restricted and stiff movement. An opportunity for a hype moment becomes impossible because of the restrictions. What's Sakurai thinking?. "Most people can't sacred combo, so now no-one can"? Who the fuck does that benefit?
In Melee, the offence/defense balance spot-on. When you knock someone offstage, the recovering player has a recovery move to help them back, but there are certain limitations to it. The speed and range of directions are fixed, you can't grab the ledge until you've reached the peak of your recovery (and that's the only time you can grab the ledge backwards), you can't grab the ledge if someone else is on it, and if you land back on the stage you have a significant amount of lag. The defending player has the advantage overall, but the recovering player can still get back on if they play it smart. Where do you want to go? Straight for the edge, onto the stage, or high into the sky so that you fall to the edge? Even when you're recovering, both players are still playing the game, and it's fun. In Brawl, this was all thrown out the window. Recovering was too hard, and now the recovering player has so great of an advantage that they can basically just get back to the stage for free. The whole idea of the edge game, something wholely unique to the Smash series, disappears.
But you know what the best thing of all about Melee is? It's insanely easy to pick up. The controls are so intuitive and natural that you can start smashing people straight away, but once you've played the game for a while, you start to think about your other options. You start to incorporate blocking, dodging and grabbing into your game. You notice that after hitting with a move, you can hit with another move and maybe even another move. You start experimenting with ways to stop people from recovering, and learn to pull off the ever-so-satisfying meteor smashes. And you know what? It's fun. It's fucking fun. And that's all I wanted from Smash 4: a game that was fun not just because of the fanservice or the randomness, but a game that's fun because of the game itself.
And that's where it fails. Now, obviously the game isn't out yet so we can't judge conclusively but if Sakurai's design philosophy is still the same as Brawl, I can't have too much hope. He still wants to restrict options. He still thinks Smash is a party game. He still doesn't understand that the Grand Finals were boring not because of any fault of the players, but because the design of the game encourages camping, which is something that he has the power to fix. But he just doesn't care. He was onto something really good with Melee, a game that everyone could enjoy, but he's throwing his grand opportunity away. He just doesn't care, and that brings a great sadness to my heart. All I can hope for now is that someone else takes over this series and designs the gameplay properly (while still keeping all the Smash zany awesomeness intact, of course), or that some other company makes an actual proper Smash clone with good gameplay and not a half-assed cash-in.
tl;dr: Melee was a good game because, even taking away stuff like wavedashing, the game itself it was actually smartly designed. In Brawl, Sakurai clearly just didn't care. We don't know about Smash 4 yet but given that Sakurai's view of Melee and overall mentality, there's a good chance it will just be a repeat of Brawl. Sorry for long ass post.
I wanted to believe so hard, but given the events of the last few days, I say with a heavy heart that I can't believe any more. It isn't even necessarily just the game itself; it's Sakurai's mentality. It hasn't changed at all. He still thinks Melee was too hard (despite it being obvious bullshit and approximately 0% of the community thinking that). As long as he still has that mentality, we may never get a truly great Smash game again, at least not under his direction. There will always be that lack of understanding that leads to bizarre mechanics and nonsensical restrictions.
Melee was pretty damn-near perfect. I hope people don't have an issue with me saying that; it's one of my favourite games of all time, and their's nothing unusual about people considering their favourite games perfect. Movement in Melee was just a joy. It was intuitive, precise, and it just just felt so right. Especially characters like Captain Falcon. One you get comfortable with how he works, you can start doing things like timing your jumps and Falcon punching people in midair. When that happens, EVERYBODY gets hyped, including the guy who just lost. In what other games can you do that? In 64 you can, but definitely not Brawl and (presumably also Smash 4) due to the restricted and stiff movement. An opportunity for a hype moment becomes impossible because of the restrictions. What's Sakurai thinking?. "Most people can't sacred combo, so now no-one can"? Who the fuck does that benefit?
In Melee, the offence/defense balance spot-on. When you knock someone offstage, the recovering player has a recovery move to help them back, but there are certain limitations to it. The speed and range of directions are fixed, you can't grab the ledge until you've reached the peak of your recovery (and that's the only time you can grab the ledge backwards), you can't grab the ledge if someone else is on it, and if you land back on the stage you have a significant amount of lag. The defending player has the advantage overall, but the recovering player can still get back on if they play it smart. Where do you want to go? Straight for the edge, onto the stage, or high into the sky so that you fall to the edge? Even when you're recovering, both players are still playing the game, and it's fun. In Brawl, this was all thrown out the window. Recovering was too hard, and now the recovering player has so great of an advantage that they can basically just get back to the stage for free. The whole idea of the edge game, something wholely unique to the Smash series, disappears.
But you know what the best thing of all about Melee is? It's insanely easy to pick up. The controls are so intuitive and natural that you can start smashing people straight away, but once you've played the game for a while, you start to think about your other options. You start to incorporate blocking, dodging and grabbing into your game. You notice that after hitting with a move, you can hit with another move and maybe even another move. You start experimenting with ways to stop people from recovering, and learn to pull off the ever-so-satisfying meteor smashes. And you know what? It's fun. It's fucking fun. And that's all I wanted from Smash 4: a game that was fun not just because of the fanservice or the randomness, but a game that's fun because of the game itself.
And that's where it fails. Now, obviously the game isn't out yet so we can't judge conclusively but if Sakurai's design philosophy is still the same as Brawl, I can't have too much hope. He still wants to restrict options. He still thinks Smash is a party game. He still doesn't understand that the Grand Finals were boring not because of any fault of the players, but because the design of the game encourages camping, which is something that he has the power to fix. But he just doesn't care. He was onto something really good with Melee, a game that everyone could enjoy, but he's throwing his grand opportunity away. He just doesn't care, and that brings a great sadness to my heart. All I can hope for now is that someone else takes over this series and designs the gameplay properly (while still keeping all the Smash zany awesomeness intact, of course), or that some other company makes an actual proper Smash clone with good gameplay and not a half-assed cash-in.
tl;dr: Melee was a good game because, even taking away stuff like wavedashing, the game itself it was actually smartly designed. In Brawl, Sakurai clearly just didn't care. We don't know about Smash 4 yet but given that Sakurai's view of Melee and overall mentality, there's a good chance it will just be a repeat of Brawl. Sorry for long ass post.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Melee is so fucking overrated.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Movement in Melee sucked. Almost as much as the handling in Double Dash.
sorakirosaki
Member
huh thats interesting cant wait to give him a shot also his final smash is amazing
PadWarrior
Member
I agree. It's way too high on a pedestal.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
brawl did 9/11
sorakirosaki
Member
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I personally don't like the 64 games, but Melee was great fun, and so was Brawl, even more so than Melee if you ask me.
I expect 4 to be even better than Brawl.
I expect 4 to be even better than Brawl.
pretty much
sorakirosaki
Member
You had more options out of a dash, your jumps carried momentum and gravity was higher, which resulted in quicker / more precise jumps.
It was pretty great.
theprodigy
Member
This post manages to be so wrong twice.
game and watch or falcon( its going to be pac man)
I was thinking G&W as well, or maybe Metaknight.
sorakirosaki
Member
actually meta knight would be pretty cool something that we havent seen yet. actually thinking about it since the 3ds version is going to be released soon i have a feeling the next couple of potds is going to be 3ds based
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I'm done. All that ever matters to anyone here is if it has Tourney status.
I'm so sick of that side of the smash community. Oh wave dashing isn't as good as it was in melee, therefore smash 4 is garbage and can't be taken seriously or competitively. Absolute worst part about smash is how everyone tries to make it competitive when it's a fucking party game.
I'm so sick of that side of the smash community. Oh wave dashing isn't as good as it was in melee, therefore smash 4 is garbage and can't be taken seriously or competitively. Absolute worst part about smash is how everyone tries to make it competitive when it's a fucking party game.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'd say Wario should be shown off since he's more obvious, considering how many times they've shown the Ashley and Waluigi AT's which both have his icon.
Hope he gets a cartoony makeover similar to Dedede.
Hope he gets a cartoony makeover similar to Dedede.
ShockingAlberto
Member
So how many people do you think Sakurai has murdered
I bet it's like 20
I bet it's like 20
SenorArdilla
Member
What?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
how else does he maintain his eternal youth
I just want to make dudes fight each other. If it competitive cool, if not then I'll play melee. Smash is fun because it's smash, not because it has Tournament Money riding on its coattails.
Yea, check this video out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AigePZRHGOE
It was in the super video post a couple of pages back, but I randomly caught it. Apparently Toon Link's Boomerang Moves faster and Hits Hard the more times you land a hit and catch it, but your opponent can grab it out of the air like an item. If you miss with the boomerang it'll also fall to the ground if it loses momentum and they can pick it up.
This was supposed to be an edit :|
.theprodigy
Member
lmao, one person makes a post about being disappointed and you launch into a meltdown full of laughable generalizations
WiiRevolution1
Member
Naw, I pretty much take it as fact. As long as Chorus Kids wasn't cut, because I find the idea awesome, I'll gladly take a change of the other two newcomers though or just more in general.
What if...the leaker only had acess to the trailers, and only the starting newcomers have trailers. OMG THERE CAN STILL BE MORE CHARACTERS HIDDEN!!!!!
Or they'll reveal all newcomers and veterans before September 14th. All hail no unlockables!
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Its not just one person, if I've been paying attention correctly. Either way, the competitive side (imo) is the worst side of the Smash community.
sorakirosaki
Member
i think its the fact that he just kept talking about how melee is such a better game and kept trying to hammer in that fact.
anyway im done with this whole melee vs brawl vs w/e im just excited for the new smash and will be playing it both ways regardless
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I like that Sakurai doesn't want to turn Smash into a competitive drag, and that he doesn't listen to those who want to turn it into something it isn't or feel they know what the game is all about more than him.
Could it be that they are still working on Palutena's character model?
They made an effort to update past Brawl characters into having more facial expressions this time (ex. King DDD) so it was odd for her to be lacking in that area.
sorakirosaki
Member
yeah luigis fs seems pretty cool. kinda still dissapointed that a lot of them retained the same ones but im really hoping that peach's gets changed since hers was really really bad
DICKS AHOY
Banned
To be fair this attitude was applied to Brawl and the Melee community got burned hard by that. Some of the pessimism is justified if you're approaching this form a competitive stand point (especially if Nintendo is legit trying to get proper feedback at E3 from attendees and tourney players), but the minute you start hoping Sakurai gets booted off the series and lament a 'proper' Smash game you've lost anybody who didn't already share your overly emotional attitude.
The problem I'm having here is while I'll easily agree Melee/PM are much better fighters than Brawl, I'd say at least 90% of the Smash audience is either apathetic or oblivious to the mechanic changes and still had a ton of fun with Brawl. Hell, I have twice as many hours logged in Brawl than in Melee just since it was the ultimate party game during uni with my friends. I don't mind people pointing out factually wrong things with what they've seen with SSB4 so far, but acting like Brawl is this evil product that destroyed the sanctity of Smash is ridiculous.
"Melee was a good game because, even taking away stuff like wavedashing, the game itself it was actually smartly designed. In Brawl, Sakurai clearly just didn't care." is exactly the sort of statement Sakurai would retort with "Have you ever made a game?" It's an elitist attitude compared to the more level-headed concerns being posted here and why the competitive Smash community constantly has an uphill battle in regards to reaching proper mainstream recognition.
Magicman103
Member
I agree with this post. Melee was a fun game when I grew up with it as a child and it's still fun now that I play it competitively. The mechanics were sound and it is definitely one of my favorite games of all time.
PorygonVandal
Member
This was my E3 loot....
This was my E3 loot....
U won a medal? lucky...
The Great Gonzales
Member
I think everyone agrees Melee is better than Brawl for competitive play. But that doesn't mean Melee is in every respect better, and Brawl is a huge step down. One big area that Brawl improved upon is items - the item game is much better in Brawl than Melee.
First off, it's easier to grab items. You can grab items with relative ease while dashing, while dash attacking, you can grab them out of the air, you can grab them while doing an air attack, you can grab them while air dodging, and you can grab them after your opponent has thrown them. This was all possible in Melee, but the timing is more forgiving in Brawl.
Offense is better for a couple reasons: first and foremost, the game speed. With everything being slower and floatier, it's to nail your opponent with a thrown item or a shot from a Ray Gun or a Super Scope. Additionally, being able to run around with those shooting items and the Fire Flower (as opposed to standing still when firing) gives you a lot more options. The last major thing is what happens when you throw an item and hit someone. Instead of dropping straight down, items in Brawl have a way of bouncing back in the direction of the thrower. This is egregious with the Trampoline, but it's noticeable with stick weapons, too. This allows you to keep up an item barrage longer, since you can quickly pick up the item you just nailed your opponent with and throw it again.
Defense is improved, too, which helps balance out the offensive boosts. Being able to grab items that your opponent has thrown more easily is huge. Multiple air dodges are a big improvement, too, since you can dodge a projectile without being a sitting duck for the next one coming at you. Also, the fact that you generally survive longer in Brawl keeps explosive items in particular from being too powerful. In Melee, if you touched an explosive capsule, it was curtains for you; those things could kill at very low percents (even at zero, depending on the stage - the top of Fourside was really bad in this regard.) In Brawl, an unfortunate run-in with an explosive isn't quite so lethal. Finally, the reduced hitstun means you have an easier time escaping from Super Scopes, Ray Guns, Fans, and the like. In Melee, if someone started firing a Super Scope, you were basically trapped until it ran out of ammo. Not so in Brawl.
The two items removed from Melee - the Red Shell and the Flipper - were, in my opinion, the worst ones, so it's no loss. The Bumper is far more effective than the Flipper because it's knockback is so much better, especially on the initial throw. The Red Shell was just as bad for you as it was for your opponent; all it ultimately did was wipe out one of the platforms for a time.
The only thing Melee has relevant to the item game that Brawl doesn't is power shielding - the loss of which is mitigated by the Franklin Badge and the easier time grabbing an already-thrown item.
tl;dr: it isn't fair to totally denigrate Brawl at the expense of Melee. They're different games with their own strengths and weaknesses. Some of the changes that weakened Brawl's competitive potential strengthened other types of play - item play, for one.
First off, it's easier to grab items. You can grab items with relative ease while dashing, while dash attacking, you can grab them out of the air, you can grab them while doing an air attack, you can grab them while air dodging, and you can grab them after your opponent has thrown them. This was all possible in Melee, but the timing is more forgiving in Brawl.
Offense is better for a couple reasons: first and foremost, the game speed. With everything being slower and floatier, it's to nail your opponent with a thrown item or a shot from a Ray Gun or a Super Scope. Additionally, being able to run around with those shooting items and the Fire Flower (as opposed to standing still when firing) gives you a lot more options. The last major thing is what happens when you throw an item and hit someone. Instead of dropping straight down, items in Brawl have a way of bouncing back in the direction of the thrower. This is egregious with the Trampoline, but it's noticeable with stick weapons, too. This allows you to keep up an item barrage longer, since you can quickly pick up the item you just nailed your opponent with and throw it again.
Defense is improved, too, which helps balance out the offensive boosts. Being able to grab items that your opponent has thrown more easily is huge. Multiple air dodges are a big improvement, too, since you can dodge a projectile without being a sitting duck for the next one coming at you. Also, the fact that you generally survive longer in Brawl keeps explosive items in particular from being too powerful. In Melee, if you touched an explosive capsule, it was curtains for you; those things could kill at very low percents (even at zero, depending on the stage - the top of Fourside was really bad in this regard.) In Brawl, an unfortunate run-in with an explosive isn't quite so lethal. Finally, the reduced hitstun means you have an easier time escaping from Super Scopes, Ray Guns, Fans, and the like. In Melee, if someone started firing a Super Scope, you were basically trapped until it ran out of ammo. Not so in Brawl.
The two items removed from Melee - the Red Shell and the Flipper - were, in my opinion, the worst ones, so it's no loss. The Bumper is far more effective than the Flipper because it's knockback is so much better, especially on the initial throw. The Red Shell was just as bad for you as it was for your opponent; all it ultimately did was wipe out one of the platforms for a time.
The only thing Melee has relevant to the item game that Brawl doesn't is power shielding - the loss of which is mitigated by the Franklin Badge and the easier time grabbing an already-thrown item.
tl;dr: it isn't fair to totally denigrate Brawl at the expense of Melee. They're different games with their own strengths and weaknesses. Some of the changes that weakened Brawl's competitive potential strengthened other types of play - item play, for one.
It's so nice and easy when someone only has to think about only themselves and their needs and not the needs of tons of disparate groups of people with different wants and needs (more so than any other fighting game) You can make an argument that Sakurai fudged the balance with Brawl but there's nothing "wrong" with his overall mentality and saying "he doesn't care" is straight up elitist bullshit SMH.
This whole conversation reminds me so much with what went down in Magic the Gathering over the past 7+ years it's eerie O_O
You can make an argument that Sakurai fudged the balance with Brawl but there's nothing "wrong" with his overall mentality and saying "he doesn't care" is straight up elitist bullshit SMH. This whole conversation reminds me so much with what went down in Magic the Gathering over the past 7+ years it's eerie O_O