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[Authority]

I don't really know what you're getting at, but you should probably avoid treating 'quality women' and 'porn stars' as mutually exclusive. I should imagine it's possible for a 'quality' woman to find a happy and empowered career in adult entertainment.

So basically you think women who flaunt their sexuality degrade themselves and there should not be game characters that represent them. Isn't that called "slut shaming"?

If you like goalposts, I love them even more.

So basically,

Treating women as sex objects is fine, treating them as sex slaves is fine, manipulating women for sex is fine, women are only worth for sex is fine, seeing women as a hole to put your dick in it is fine because

most women want to live in a society where

• They can take their clothes off and be someone's sex tool
• They are treated as sex objects
• They are treated as sex slaves
• They are manipulated for sex
• They are only good for sex

Have you talked to any strip girls or prostitutes in general? Do you think most of them wanted to do what they do? Do you think most of them are proud? Do you think most of them have got a poster on their wall saying "Proudest day of my Life - Beep"? Do you think most of them want, enjoy, strive to be treated as objects?

Women are more capable than sex and if you think that otherwise you think really low of women. Women like men have got a choice but in some cases they don't and in those cases women do what they do to survive just like men. If you still agree, then video games are doing an excellent job of representing most female characters or re-enforcing the general consensus that women in video games are best understood when they are showed as a piece of meat and that is the right representation of women.

Like I said if you want goalposts I will do goalposts. The subject is not about whether a woman doing a job with sex involved is a shameful job (which is not, there is no shame in doing any job) however when you have a choice you will be judged. The subject is about representing women better and that can only change when more triple-A games come out and represent them better.

 

[gogosox82]

They want to narrow the scope of ideas because they find them offensive. This is exactly why freedom of speech laws exist. Not everybody supports this extremism, fortunately.


So now I have to prove a negative right? lol. You claim it's harmful, prove it. Otherwise there's no reason to assume it is.

Freedom of speech only applies to government censoring citizens. Criticizing something isn't censorship. It would only be censorship if the government was being used to censor the content via a lawsuit of some sort.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

That's not what this video series is about at all. It's about raising awareness of sexism in video games with the hope of broadening the types of content we see in them. No one is calling for anything to be banned. Sexism is being criticized.

Freedom of speech laws typically only apply to governments, by the way. At least here in the US. Not that many other places have anything like our First Amendment.

Some people want to broaden the market. As I said before, expansion of the market to suit different tastes is fine.

Others want to tone down or even eliminate these so called sexist tropes. That's the people I'm against.

Now if you think censorship is too much of a specific term, let's call it oppression.

 

[Jado]

To be quite honest if it wasn't in there I wouldn't care, but the fact that people would want it taken out would actually frustrate me.

I think it's odd that you think the end product you're purchasing is a completely unaltered artistic expression from the development team. Top-grossing, big budget games are so same-y, down to the male protagonist's appearance to the way he interacts with the world around him (and the women), that's it's baffling that gamers think this is all original and not affected by dozens of factors before launch. It would not shock me to learn that some of the content you're vociferously defending was shoehorned into what was once quite a different story concept -- heavily and predictably edited due to pressure/expectations from the top, market analysis on gaming trends and focus testing to people like you.

Seems like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

The first half of the video is pretty good, and informative.

The second half seems really disingenuous. It feels edited to make it seem like the objectified women are specific targets of violence and that the player is prompted or encouraged to abuse them. The fact of the matter is they are handled the same as any other nameless NPC. They don't have a name or a backstory? You're not meant to feel any empathy for them? They have no "voice" in the narrative? You suffer little to no consequence for murdering them? They drop money when you kill them? Yes, but that's the case with every shopkeeper, pedestrian, policeman, taxi driver, or bystander in any of these games (regardless of gender or objectification).

My only issue with the video. The only defense I can think up for this portion is similar to the one about blackface: you have a game with a bunch of people with painted faces walking about, but only Caucasian NPCs with black paint might cause an uproar for obvious reasons -- it's tied to painful history. Similarly, assaulting and murdering a sex worker seems that much more controversial and linked to real life violence than killing a guy selling snowcones.

That's just an opinion, no actual data to be found there. It's simply promotes the idea of women as victim and men as oppresors. Pretty much everywhere in the US men are considered guilty until proven innocent when it comes to accusations of violence towards women. Men are even being expelled out of colleges without any actual investigations taking place.

So as long as the character is designed by a woman who wants to express herself through it then it's fine right? If the end result is the same, what's the problem? This sounds very bigoted. "Only women should write and design women".

There it is. Keep talking long enough, and it eventually comes out.

 

[hateradio]

It's a game featuring a gunslinger, a lasso, a train track, and dames. If you couldn't tie a chick up and leave her on the tracks, the designers have failed.

That's fair, but the fact that you get a trophy for doing so is ridiculous.

Yes, games give trophies for many reasons, but giving one for mowing prostitutes by train encourages players to commit violence against objectified women, which is what the last half of the video is about.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

So now I have to prove a negative right? lol. You claim it's harmful, prove it. Otherwise there's no reason to assume it is.

Swing and a miss. I will be waiting for your proof of what I quoted. I expect it to be full of data, if nothing else.

 

[border]

Have you talked to any strip girls or prostitutes in general? Do you think most of them wanted to do what they do? Do you think most of them are proud? Do you think most of them have got a poster on their wall saying "Proudest day of my Life - Beep"? Do you think most of them want, enjoy, strive to be treated as objects?

The answer for most of these is probably "No", when talking to most people in most professions. For most people, their job is a compromise between their level of education, what they are capable of doing, who's hiring, and how much unpleasant bullshit they are willing to put up with depending on the pay. Nobody grows up wanting to be a stripper or a court stenographer or a barista or garbage man.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

I think it's odd that you think the end product you're purchasing is a completely unaltered artistic expression from the development team. Top-grossing, big budget games are so same-y, down to the male protagonist's appearance to the way he interacts with the world around him (and the women), that's it's baffling that gamers think this is all original and not affected by dozens of factors before launch. It would not shock me to learn that some of the content you're vociferously defending was shoehorned into what was once quite a different story concept -- heavily and predictably edited due to pressure/expectations from the top, market analysis on gaming trends and focus testing to people like you.



My only issue with the video. The only defense I can think up for this portion is similar to the one about blackface: you have a game with a bunch of people with painted faces walking about, but only Caucasian NPCs with black paint might cause an uproar for obvious reasons -- it's tied to painful history. Similarly, assaulting and murdering a sex worker seems that much more controversial and linked to real life violence than killing a guy selling snowcones.



There it is. Keep talking long enough, and it eventually comes out.

Might want to read the post after that one. I'm saying the game I bought for $60 and played had prostitution. Didn't I even use it? No. Feel free to add content, but don't take out content that I paid for.

Edit: and while we're here, chill out. I'm not the anti-christ of progressive gaming.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The basic idea is that repeated exposure to bad portrayals can lead to socialising society into thinking in certain ways. I'm sure someone who has done more research or has good links will appear and provide you with the necessary pieces.

I posted one article earlier that I thought was good at describing the ways in which turning women into objects rather than subjects are harmful.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/joy-goh-mah/objectification-women-sexy-pictures_b_3403251.html






The problem with it is these women have no agencies of their own. They're sexy because someone made them to be for various purposes.
It is different from a woman who has chose to dress sexily and who wants to flaunt their own sexuality. Agency is the key in the discussion of objectification of people.

Mumei posted an article in this vein about the constant negative portrayal of black characters in game and how that affects both player aggression and subconscious views on blacks outside of the videogame world. Unfortunately I never save the stuff Mumei posts, but it was a pretty good read.

Or at least I think Mumei posted it, it might have been someone in the Black Culture Thread.

 

[Salsa]

yeah.. I also have issues with the whole montage of videogame women being beaten in a game that allows you beat whatever you want, man, women, etc

I like her videos, and I think there's a point here, but she just goes to it in lengths where her examples become a bit exaggerated

 

[Warm Machine]

That's fair, but the fact that you get a trophy for doing so is ridiculous.

Yes, games give trophies for many reasons, but giving one for mowing prostitutes by train encourages players to commit violence against objectified women, which is what the last half of the video is about.

It is not just prostitutes. Any woman can be grabbed. It is "funnier" with the prostitute because of their dialogue tree regular women object to being grabbed and tied.

 

[Brakke]

Now if you think censorship is too much of a specific term, let's call it oppression.

Well that's certainly one way to go...

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Call me old fashioned but I thought censorship was something governments did to citizens, not videographers did to amorphous industries.

Did reddit win all human discourse? Did I not get a memo? I think I missed a memo.

 

[Angelus Errare]

That's just an opinion, no actual data to be found there. It's simply promotes the idea of women as victim and men as oppresors. Pretty much everywhere in the US men are considered guilty until proven innocent when it comes to accusations of violence towards women. Men are even being expelled out of colleges without any actual investigations taking place.

Yea bro, when you really think about it, men are the victims!



/s

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

I still do not see where the versus comes from. Most things in games (and life) are backgroung decoration. I struggle to see any negatives to what have been discussed in her videos (Videogames making people be arseholes is a negative, but I do not agree with that opinion). She wants something good away. I can understand when people want more and better representation of women in games, but why take away something non-harmful (unlike her claims) from others.
Bible says women are property of their husband. Now that is fucked up, so try to ban/educate that (on side note, does feminists actively try ban bible/educate about the harmful teachings of bible)

Spoiler

For a mainstream religion, THAT IS FUCKED UP. SERIOUSLY

I see these as BS (objectification/sexualisation/violence in games is bad).

Where is that study that in young men (students?) distubingly high precentage of people would rape if they knew they could get away with it. NOW THAT IS FUCKED UP ATTITUDE. Humans are such a big arseholes.

on a plus side, tone of video was not that offensive. It was basically an opinion I do not agree with.

I rest my case.

 

[gogosox82]

Some people want to broaden the market. As I said before, expansion of the market to suit different tastes is fine.

Others want to tone down or even eliminate these so called sexist tropes. That's the people I'm against.

Now if you think censorship is too much of a specific term, let's call it oppression.

No its not oppression and I think its ridiculous that you or anyone would suggest that not being able to beat up prostitutes in a video game is oppression.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

Call me old fashioned but I thought censorship was something governments did to citizens, not videographers did to amorphous industries.

Did reddit win all human discourse? Did I not get a memo? I think I missed a memo.

You must not be aware of the National Department of Anita Sarkeesian.

 

[Jado]

I don't get what you mean with this? There are prostitutes in GTA, games based off of real cities which have prostitutes in them.

You know how in GTA you commit heinous acts, and if caught end up outside of jail a bit poorer but perfectly fine? That's highly unrealistic. You know how these games depict escorts and prostitutes, the way they behave around you, the things you can pull off around them? Yeah, there's nothing real or immersive there either. Like someone said earlier: 16-year old's view of the world. And as I said before, Showgirls looks like a masterpiece compared to video games. It's fine if you wanna defend stupid and unrealistic game mechanics as part of the genre's power fantasy and fun, mindless power tripping, but refrain from insisting this is necessary because it's "immersive and real life-like."

Might want to read the post after that one. I'm saying the game I bought for $60 and played had prostitution. Didn't I even use it? No. Feel free to add content, but don't take out content that I paid for.

Edit: and while we're here, chill out. I'm not the anti-christ of progressive gaming.

Read it, see response above. Your original stance is absurd and unsupported.

Why are you telling me to chill out? Did I curse you out or say anything unreasonable? You chill out.

 

[partyphone]

Some people want to broaden the market. As I said before, expansion of the market to suit different tastes is fine.

Others want to tone down or even eliminate these so called sexist tropes. That's the people I'm against.

Now if you think censorship is too much of a specific term, let's call it oppression.

How, specifically, is it oppression?

I don't think you know what these words mean.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Swing and a miss. I will be waiting for your proof of what I quoted. I expect it to be full of data, if nothing else.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-sexual-assault-legal-20140608-story.html

...

The only person degrading women is you by saying women such as pornstars aren't QUALITY women. What's wrong with you?

Yea bro, when you really think about it, men are the victims!

/s

Right, men suffer no discrimination EVER, what could I possibly be thinking?

No its not oppression and I think its ridiculous that you or anyone would suggest that not being able to beat up prostitutes in a video game is oppression.

You're limiting the freedom of expression of people. It's oppression. Interesting that you're fine with beating up other types of people in videogames.

How, specifically, is it oppression?

I don't think you know what these words mean.

Shaming developers to limit their freedom of expression is oppression.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Shaming developers to limit their freedom of expression is oppression.

This made me chuckle. You're definitely overreacting to reasonable criticisms on the part of Anita Sarkeesian.

 

[Lime]

oh man the many clips of sexualized female characters and the atrocious dialogue, presentation, and game design ram home the fact how video game developers can embarrass themselves as horny little teenage boys (or imagining their target audience to be).

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

This made me chuckle. You're definitely overreacting to reasonable criticisms on the part of Anita Sarkeesian.

It's not to the criticisms by Anita, but the solutions some would like to implement.

 

[Htown]

Shaming developers to limit their freedom of expression is oppression.

Ridiculous.

 

[border]

My only issue with the video. The only defense I can think up for this portion is similar to the one about blackface: you have a game with a bunch of people with painted faces walking about, but only Caucasian NPCs with black paint might cause an uproar for obvious reasons -- it's tied to painful history. Similarly, assaulting and murdering a sex worker seems that much more controversial and linked to real life violence than killing a guy selling snowcones.

If you made a video that was about nothing but white open-world protagonists killing black/hispanic NPCs, I think it would be a bit easier for audiences to see through the bullshit. Sarkeesian's video seems a little bit more plausible, but once you have some semblance of context her dishonesty shines through.

 

[Infinite]

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-sexual-assault-legal-20140608-story.html


The only person degrading women is you by saying women such as pornstars aren't QUALITY women. What's wrong with you?


Right, men suffer no discrimination EVER, what could I possibly be thinking?


You're limiting the freedom of expression of people. It's oppression. Interesting that you're fine with beating up other types of people in videogames.


Shaming developers to limit their freedom of expression is oppression.

You are doing the absolute most right now.

 

[Brakke]

Is putting someone on your ignore list oppression or is it censorship?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Now if you think censorship is too much of a specific term, let's call it oppression.

Wow. For the longest time, I thought you were serious, but now you've outed yourself as a parody. Good job, you got me (and many others).

 

[EvilKatarn]

I don't get why she mentioned Max Payne 3. Max hated that place and it was not there to titillate.

The Darkness 2 clips surprised me. Never knew that game was so tryhard. Good job on destroying what made the first one a classic.

 

[Yopis]

Absolutely the scene with that child-perv guy and Ellie was censored. A movie would have taken that scene a bit further to further drive the grossness of it all, but that area is still too off-limits for the game industry. That situation was disgusting and you felt it - where they put you on the receiving end for a change.

I applaud them for that game and it got the recognition it deserved. They really helped push women into a more realistic role than just being eye-candy.

Also censored how Tess ended up, why could they not show that. Didn't matter you saw tons of death scenes with Joel. Ellie was immune also. Lastly they just made Ellie over the top hardcore Tess also. Tess talked to Joel like he was weak. That's not believable to me. Why does the male have to bow down to make a strong female character?

No better than a female doing the same in my eyes.

Besides those personal gripes game was great. Thnk they tried hard in spots but the point was appreciated.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-sexual-assault-legal-20140608-story.html

Doesn't support what you claimed. There is no data regarding the burden of proof. None. And the lower burden mentioned in the article - 'preponderance of the evidence' - is actually the opposite of what you claimed is applied to men. There is also no data supporting the claim that men are expelled without any corroborating investigation.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Wow. For the longest time, I thought you were serious, but now you've outed yourself as a parody. Good job, you got me (and many others).

Getting rid of ideas through shaming is oppression. No different than slut shaming women to suppress expressions of their sexuality.

Doesn't support what you claimed. There is no data regarding the burden of proof. None. And the lower burden mentioned in the article - 'preponderance of the evidence' - is actually the opposite of what you claimed is applied to men. There is also no data supporting the claim that men are expelled without any corroborating investigation.

Let's assume nothing I said has any evidence backing it up. Would you consider it the truth?

 

[Brawndo Addict]

They want to narrow the scope of ideas because they find them offensive. This is exactly why freedom of speech laws exist. Not everybody supports this extremism, fortunately.


So now I have to prove a negative right? lol. You claim it's harmful, prove it. Otherwise there's no reason to assume it is.

Here's an excerpt from an article series Caroline Heldman wrote about sexual objectification, which links to numerous studies and research like "Effects of exposure to sex-stereotyped video game characters on tolerance of sexual harassment". Note that the each term has its own individual hyperlink.

Sexual objectification is nothing new, but this latest era is characterized by greater exposure to advertising and increased sexual explicitness in advertising, magazines, television shows, movies, video games, music videos, television news, and “reality” television.

In a culture with widespread sexual objectification, women (especially) tend to view themselves as objects of desire for others. This internalized sexual objectification has been linked to problems with mental health (clinical depression, “habitual body monitoring”), eating disorders, body shame, self-worth and life satisfaction, cognitive functioning, motor functioning, sexual dysfunction, access to leadership and political efficacy. Women of all ethnicities internalize objectification, as do men to a far lesser extent.

Beyond the internal effects, sexually objectified women are dehumanized by others and seen as less competent and less worthy of empathy by both men and women. Furthermore, exposure to images of sexually objectified women causes male viewers to be more tolerant of sexual harassment and rape myths. Add to this the countless hours that some girls/women spend primping to garner heterosexual male attention, and the erasure of middle-aged and elderly women who have little value in a society that places women’s primary value on their sexualized bodies.

Theorists have contributed to understanding the harm of objectification culture by pointing out the difference between sexy and sexual. If one thinks of the subject/object dichotomy that dominates Western culture, subjects act and objects are acted upon. Subjects are sexual, while objects are sexy.

Pop culture sells women and girls a hurtful fiction that their value lies in how sexy they appear to others; they learn at a very young age that their sexuality is for others. At the same time, sexuality is stigmatized in women but encouraged in men. We learn that men want and women want-to-be-wanted. The yardstick for women’s value (sexiness) automatically puts them in a subordinate societal position, regardless of how well they otherwise measure up. Perfectly sexy women are perfectly subordinate.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

You know how in GTA you commit heinous acts, and if caught end up outside of jail a bit poorer but perfectly fine? That's highly unrealistic. You know how these games depict escorts and prostitutes, the way they behave around you, the things you can pull off around them? Yeah, there's nothing real or immersive there either. Like someone said earlier: 16-year old's view of the world. And as I said before, Showgirls looks like a masterpiece compared to video games. It's fine if you wanna defend stupid and unrealistic game mechanics as part of the genre's power fantasy and fun, mindless power tripping, but refrain from insisting this is necessary because it's "immersive and real life-like."



Read it, see response above. Your original stance is absurd and unsupported.

Why are you telling me to chill out? Did I curse you out or say anything unreasonable? You chill out.

I never said it was necessary, I'm saying I can see why it's there. Yes the game's got unrealistic aspects, I never said it was a life-simulator, I said it had a grounding in reality, which it does. Also how many prostitutes have you met? Walking drunk around New Orleans's french quarter you meet plenty who act like that, and I've seen videos of prostitutes in vegas who do the same thing.

My stance is unsupported? I paid money I earned, I don't want content taking from my game for the sake of other people who can't or don't want to avoid said content.

And I'm telling you to chill out as your posts seem to indicate that you think me some mainstream, immature dick head whose only experience in life comes from GTA. So yes, I'm telling you to chill out, we are discussing video games, don't be a dick about it.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

Getting rid of ideas through shaming is oppression. No different than slut shaming women to suppress expressions of their sexuality.


Let's assume nothing I said has any evidence backing it up. Would you consider it the truth?

I have already assumed that. I would consider it undermining your position because your assertions don't have the requisite evidentiary support while you drone on about requiring the very same from everyone else.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

I don't get why she mentioned Max Payne 3. Max hated that place and it was not there to titillate.

Place was made for the players and not for max.

 

[gabbo]

I don't get why she mentioned Max Payne 3. Max hated that place and it was not there to titillate.

The Darkness 2 clips surprised me. Never knew that game was so tryhard. Good job on destroying what made the first one a classic.

The women in Max Payne 3 are still largely reduced to objects if they're NPC's, titillating or not, which I think was her larger point.

 

[daffy]

It's a pretty good video in general.

 

[Cymbal Head]

My thoughts, in no particular order:

• Although there are a few examples that I think didn't especially strengthen her case (Burial at Sea clip is actually using the sex trade in an interesting way as part of its thematic fabric; murdering and throwing around bodies that eventually disappear almost always generalizes to men as well), the analysis of the mechanics of objectification in games is the most informative thing to come out of these videos so far.
  
• I'm happy she anticipates some counter-arguments (especially what's the harm?); it makes it easier to tell if someone straight up hasn't watched the video.
  
• That achievement in Red Dead made me squirm.
  
• The glorification of sex tourism in games is something that I never thought about, but will now be impossible to unsee.
  
• I would love to see a hooker NPC that kills your ass dead if you try to attack her.
  
• The recurring trope of "oh player character, you're so handsome you get discount hookers" is so, so gross when it's presented back to back like this. What a bunch of shameless pandering (to an assumed straight male audience).
  
• Also gross: the screen tearing in a lot of the video footage. Did the first Saints Row really run that poorly?

 

[Basketball]

The women in Max Payne 3 are still largely reduced to objects if they're NPC's, titillating or not, which I think was her larger point.

everyone was reduced to objects unless it was a story character. The every enemy in the game was just a meatbag for your bullets for the player to watch that entertaining rage engine animations in slow motion .. but hey that's always been the max payne games pretty much

 

[gogosox82]

You're limiting the freedom of expression of people. It's oppression. Interesting that you're fine with beating up other types of people in videogames.

Who said I was fine with beating up other kinds of people in videogames? Your just making that assumption based on nothing basically. Are you seriously defining oppression as the "freedom" to beat hookers with baseball bat without anyone saying anything to you about it? You can't seriously be doing that so please explain what exactly you are referring to when you say oppression.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I don't like how she keeps showing footage (particularly of rockstar games) where you can shoot or fight against female NPC's.

In those games, you can do that to any NPC. Male or female. And both NPC's of both genders react like defenseless targets. If Rockstar were to randomly turn off killing of women in GTA VI let's say, and only you can kill male NPC's, she would create a video showcasing that in of itself. There is no difference between violence against men and violence against women, it's all violence. And it's the point of those games. You can shoot anyone, you can lasso anyone etc.

The only really thing I agree with her is the silly gameplay rewards based off the sexualization of women. Fuck a prostitute, gain +5 to STR, that's just shallow. But calling a game for 'violence against women' when the entire game your character is dealing out violence to every man, women, dog and alien seems like cherry picking.

 

[Jado]

I never said it was neccessary, I'm saying I can see why it's there. Yes the game's got unrealistic aspects, I never said it was a life-simulator, I said it had a grounding in reality, which it does. Also how many prostitutes have you met? Walking drunk around New Orleans's french quarter you meet plenty who act like that, and I've seen videos of prostitutes in vegas who do the same thing.

Out of context online videos and your impressions of reality when you're out drunk... wow, okay. You're wrong until you can demonstrate that shit like this happens in real life: a stripper will gladly let you fondle her and if you "win," she leaves with you for sex at your place like the awesome stud you are.

My stance is unsupported? I paid money I earned, I don't want content taking from my game for the sake of other people who can't or don't want to avoid said content.

You're a bit mixed up. I mean your stance on this sexual game content being just like real life, therefore meriting inclusion in the game... it's nonsense. At the very least, these interactions need to be shaped up so it doesn't feel like it's the work of a horny, inexperienced teen.

And I'm telling you to chill out as your posts seem to indicate that I'm some mainstream, immature dick head whose only experience in life comes from GTA. So yes, I'm telling you to chill out, we are discussing video games, don't be a dick about it.

My posts didn't indicate anything about you specifically. Do some soul searching if you're personally offended and and feel any of this is a personal attack about you. And thanks for pointing this is a video game forum, although you're implying I'm being too harsh... or something. Video games or not, arguments here can still be heated without assuming anyone is being a dick.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

The women in Max Payne 3 are still largely reduced to objects if they're NPC's, titillating or not, which I think was her larger point.

I will say this.
Anita wants games to have more to the characters who are prostitutes and the like, but it propably takes way too much effort to do it to every character in game so generally devs just do not give a fuck. It would be nice if there was game like that for people who are in to that stuff.
It is nice to want things. Like humans being bit more nice to eachothers. But we are selfish cunts weather we admit it or not. Will we ever evolve to Star Trek level? Find out in the next episode.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

You're a bit mixed up. I mean your stance on this sexual game content being just like real life, therefore meriting inclusion in the game... it's nonsense. At the very least, these interactions need to be shaped up so it doesn't feel like it's the work of a horny, inexperienced teen..

Actually, as somebody who grew up Vegas, certain parts are really like that. Believe it or not. You're walking down the strip with some of your friends and a prostitute comes on to you to the point which mirrors a lot of stuff shown in games highlighted in her youtube video. It's pretty disgusting.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

You could probably use the argument that they're using women as prostitutes and strippers to establish a certain feeling in the games. In The Darkness it's there to further how shitty the mobsters are, in Hitman it's to further how shitty of an environment you are in, and in Deus Ex it's to further the shitty conditions of the slums that's been created in this broken world. HOWEVER! Fiction isn't created in a void, and developers shouldn't settle for this kind of conveyance; they should try and do something unique and clever to further what they want to tell.

In general, women are used way too much as plot-devices in media to create motivations and such. It's so "boring" when a movie creates disgust for the antagonist by having him raping a woman, and it's also doing a huge disservice to people who have experienced sexual abuse.

 

[Phades]

Here's an excerpt from an article series Caroline Heldman wrote about sexual objectification, which links to numerous studies and research like "Effects of exposure to sex-stereotyped video game characters on tolerance of sexual harassment". Note that the each term has its own individual hyperlink.

There is a lot of energy invested into psychology and sociology. Everyone wants to try to understand how other people work for various reasons. The thing is, when instances like the described are applied, the person does have to let it affect them in order to try and "fit in". There is a lot of psychology research on the desire to be part of something or be like others. Personally, I find that to be a weakness to a degree, since it usurps that individual's free will in order to conform to whatever idealism is being presented. This extends into just about every facet of life, not just outward appearances or sexual nature.

To imply that people are helpless against this and that people who aren't are somehow abnormal and in need of help seems a bit backwards.

Spoiler

You or the article didn't state this, but the position presented suggests that in order to help the helpless, you must first remove temptation which is a fallacy since the underlying problem for that person still exists. Of course there are also use versus abuse arguments to be had of varied degrees as well.

 

[……forgetit]

I can totally see where she's coming from, but I can't shake how odd it is that she'd highlight violence against women in games where you're allowed to kill anything you want, and she somewhat implied that the only female NPCs you encounter in these games are prostitutes, when in fact there's usually a variety of different women and character models in these games, most if not all of which are killable.

Also not a fan that at times she basically says "you can't bring this up in a video game," like her Watch Dogs example, which I assume is a plot point and you actually get rid the owners pf the sex ring in the game. Are we just not supposed to bring up sex in games at all? What's the responsible way to do that? I actually really want to know.

 

[Cymbal Head]

You could probably use the argument that they're using women as prostitutes and strippers to establish a certain feeling in the games. In The Darkness it's there to further how shitty the mobsters are, in Hitman it's to further how shitty of an environment you are in, and in Deus Ex it's to further the shitty conditions of the slums that's been created in this broken world. HOWEVER! Fiction isn't created in a void, and developers shouldn't settle for this kind of conveyance; they should try and do something unique and clever to further what they want to tell.

In general, women are used way too much as plot-devices in media to create motivations and such. It's so "boring" when a movie creates disgust for the antagonist by having him raping a woman, and it's also doing a huge disservice to people who have experienced sexual abuse.

Never have I gone from "spin up the social justice warrior gatling gun" to "this is legit" so quickly within a single post.

Are we just not supposed to bring up sex in games at all? What's the responsible way to do that? I actually really want to know.

Well, in the video she says that games are potentially a great medium for exploring sex and sexuality, so presumably she has an opinion. I would like to see it too. In the meantime, maybe you can check out Cara Ellison's S.EXE posts over on Rock Paper Shotgun.

 

[theshape31]

Absolutely top-notch work by Anita. This may be her best video to date, and I can't wait for part 2. I'm very proud.