The Librarian
Banned
Oh hell yeah. Teleporters don't have an element of danger as strong as mancannons that lends them to pushing map movement in an interesting way.
Plus they're boring compared to mancannons.
Halo: Master Chief Collection Master Thread | This is it, baby. Hold me.
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Oh hell yeah. Teleporters don't have an element of danger as strong as mancannons that lends them to pushing map movement in an interesting way.
Plus they're boring compared to mancannons.
Teleports are fine when appropriate. Sometimes it just feels like "fuck, we couldn't figure out to make this work as a logical map route, just throw in a teleport" in more modern Halo games.
I prefer mancannons as it introduces a tradeoff of danger to accelerating your movement across the map, and has a tell (the mancannon sound) when being used. Someone here on HaloGAF made a much better version of Highlands for example that used a mid bridge instead of the teleporters, and just introducing physical map movement made that map more fun.
Not saying teleporters should be 100% banned. Just have to design the map with them in mind.
I'm actually going to add that as a wish feature to my Halo 2 wishlist - it'd be cool if there was a toggle for teleporters so you could play Warlock Oddball without the annoying porter shenanigans that ensued. In theory you'd just make the engine delete the teleporters on-load. Don't even need to change the map data.
I prefer mancannons as it introduces a tradeoff of danger to accelerating your movement across the map, and has a tell (the mancannon sound) when being used. Someone here on HaloGAF made a much better version of Highlands for example that used a mid bridge instead of the teleporters, and just introducing physical map movement made that map more fun.
Not saying teleporters should be 100% banned. Just have to design the map with them in mind.
I'm actually going to add that as a wish feature to my Halo 2 wishlist - it'd be cool if there was a toggle for teleporters so you could play Warlock Oddball without the annoying porter shenanigans that ensued. In theory you'd just make the engine delete the teleporters on-load. Don't even need to change the map data.
I'll be somewhat surprised if this game has no CE. But I'd also be happy, my wallet is already not gonna be able to handle this fall.
I didn't know potentials of boredom needed to be factored in game design. That's a new one to me.
Teleports, designed correctly, dictate map flow heavily. On top of that, they can be just as dangerous as a mancannon.
The Librarian
Banned
Seems odd to me that's new to you. If some element of the game design is boring, that subtracts from the overall experience.
Like Fyrewulff said, mancannons add a more immediate and obvious sense of danger than teleporters. Plus teleporters can encourage tele-camping, so to speak.
Definitely. Going through them in maps like Warlock, Beaver Creek, and Chill Out are dangerous and make you think twice when going through. Often times it's better to go in backwards or jump in to deny the potential backsmack. Telefragging was another cool thing to do, but alas.
Although my favorite placements for them were in Relic and Waterworks. Specifically Relic where you had to damage the other side for it open up. It's a shame those cool interactive elements in maps are all but history in Halo maps.
I was being sarcastic. I would never sit down and design something, and factor boredom into the equation.
In Halo CE's Damnation map, the teleports add to the overall design and dictate flow of the map. Whether they're "boring" is completely arbitrary and doesn't matter. I can't imagine someone at the creative director position say..."change those teleports up, make them more interesting by adding sparks as you teleport through...that's less boring."
I'm not discounting man cannons, but the two can co-exist. I think there should be much more teleport design.
Mancannons aren't a new concept, they've been in Quake for ages.
I was just referring to the comment of someone saying teleports are "boring".
The Librarian
Banned
Well, I guess if you say so.
User 73706
Banned
...I don't really understand how this is even an argument. Not the broad mancannons versus teleporter thing, his comment, I mean. He's not saying it on a general level and went out of his way to clarify that. He's saying that, as far as this single, individual facet of game design applies to the flow of a map built with said mechanic in mind, the teleporters serve their purpose efficiently and on a level that allows them to be more than just an optional utility, with a variety of ways to enhance or mitigate movement in and out of the teleporters depending on firefights in-context. Are you asking for more fanfare when the mechanic itself is already solid but thematically bland, or am I missing something?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Dax, what Halo game did you start with and how much time did you put into each game from the trilogy, and during what time period?
Your attitude and views in certain discussions has piqued my curiosity.
Your attitude and views in certain discussions has piqued my curiosity.
The Librarian
Banned
Depends on your definition of "starting with." I first played Halo 1/2 late 2005 and played Halo 2 online in early 2006.
I do understand the practical uses of teleporters on certain maps or in certain situations, but I've never found them fun to use, so never really enjoyed using them all that much. They were a way to get around the map, but they were also kind of just there - as if they were a concept that could be further expanded, but left as is. With the introduction of mancannons in Halo 3, moving around on certain maps became more fun. I prefer a mancannon over a teleporter where at all possible.
User 73706
Banned
In hindsight, it's kind of hilarious that the Bungie vidocs were toting the mancannon as this groundbreaking new feature when similar grav-lifts in previous Halo games already existed in addition to the obvious classic jump-pads in arena shooters.
The Librarian
Banned
You can. Kind of. Throwing a sticky through a mancannon and sticking someone is one of the best feelings in Halo.
CloudyTuba
Member
I miss Halo 1 door teleporters. I like that pulsing green wall (in the Xbox version, the PC version of the teleporter effect sucked). Wasn't impressed when they replaced the doors with the tiny light pillars.
I'd like a mix of both mancannons and teleports in H5. It always felt risky coming out the other side of that teleporter when the end was out of view.
Xbox:
PC:
Hoping that XB1-CEA multiplayer takes after the original Xbox version in graphics. There were a bunch of things that looked different in the PC version. The assault rifle and flag were a little different, too. Also I think the MP spartans looked ever so slightly different in how saturated and shiny they were.
I'd like a mix of both mancannons and teleports in H5. It always felt risky coming out the other side of that teleporter when the end was out of view.
Xbox:
PC:
Hoping that XB1-CEA multiplayer takes after the original Xbox version in graphics. There were a bunch of things that looked different in the PC version. The assault rifle and flag were a little different, too. Also I think the MP spartans looked ever so slightly different in how saturated and shiny they were.
I love both man cannons and transporters and can see the value of each.
For example, parking a warthog onto a transporter to stop it being used, forcing players through transporters so that they can be ambushed etc are all valid tactics and add an extra element to gameplay (blood gultch specifically).
I like man cannons too, they added to traversal mechanics to valhala but left you open to being sniped, again a valid tactics. You had alternative means of transport but could use them to quickly get into a mid map battle.
I stopped playing halo so long ago (not counting halo 4), all these conversations are making the greatness flood back.
For example, parking a warthog onto a transporter to stop it being used, forcing players through transporters so that they can be ambushed etc are all valid tactics and add an extra element to gameplay (blood gultch specifically).
I like man cannons too, they added to traversal mechanics to valhala but left you open to being sniped, again a valid tactics. You had alternative means of transport but could use them to quickly get into a mid map battle.
I stopped playing halo so long ago (not counting halo 4), all these conversations are making the greatness flood back.
Yeah, I never understood that either. They sorta more or less the same to me. Especially since the purpose is the same.
It is fun to mess around with them in Forge, though, especially the vehicle lifts.
I can't deny this, though, especially when you blow up a Banshee or Warthog. Boom.
RebornYeti
Member
Duuuuude... I just realized how great "Xbox Record That" is gonna be for this collection. No more having to go to Theater to get the clip you want. 
Some questions:
1. Will CEA also have instant switching between old and new graphics like H2A?
2. Will anything be done to fix some issues with running Halo CE at a higher framerate than 30 like the choppy animations and it skipping checkpoints? (which I didn't know until that speedrun yesterday during SGDQ)
3. Who's bald head do I have to polish so all the games have at least a FoV of 90?
1. Will CEA also have instant switching between old and new graphics like H2A?
2. Will anything be done to fix some issues with running Halo CE at a higher framerate than 30 like the choppy animations and it skipping checkpoints? (which I didn't know until that speedrun yesterday during SGDQ)
3. Who's bald head do I have to polish so all the games have at least a FoV of 90?
User 73706
Banned
Duuuuude... I just realized how great "Xbox Record That" is gonna be for this collection. No more having to go to Theater to get the clip you want.
I really hope we're going to see a revival of the machinima community thanks to this.
Also, re: Dax and teleporters, since you feel like they never really got off the ground minus them being a binary pathfinding tool, I think you'll be happy (or at least have your interest piqued) with their implementation in the vaporware thing I'm working on.
ElRenoRaven
Member
I miss a lot from the older games. I miss teleporters and I miss ladders damn it. I do. You had to actually take some damn risks with a ladder. You had to decide do I climb it or say screw it and take the long way. It was a nice trade off.
One of my favorite and crazy maps was Boarding Action in Halo 1 without sniper rifles. It was a blast to play. Friends and I had tons of fun times playing that map like that. Also longest was another good example. You could take the ramp or climb the ladder. It was fun.
One of my favorite and crazy maps was Boarding Action in Halo 1 without sniper rifles. It was a blast to play. Friends and I had tons of fun times playing that map like that. Also longest was another good example. You could take the ramp or climb the ladder. It was fun.
CloudyTuba
Member
This reminds me: Will Sidewinder take after PC and have two-way teleporters that go all the way through to the bases on both sides, or like the OG one-way version? It was changed for PC.
I remember that in polls people largely preferred the PC version.
Spill the beans, Frank!
I remember that in polls people largely preferred the PC version.
Spill the beans, Frank!
User 73706
Banned
Greatest map / gametype combo that'll never happen: high-gravity Sword / Grenade Launcher starts with Thrusters, Oddball on Boarding Action. Throwing enabled.
They'd practically have to be the PC versions. Because if you think Halo 2 maps are breakable, the original Xbox version of Halo 1 maps will just be straight lulz in matchmaking.
User 73706
Banned
I'm pretty sure I got out of Sidewinder on accident in the Ghost on more than one occasion. There's also a hilarious glitch on Blood Gulch PC that lets you shove players through the geometry in a weird pocket of rock behind a base.
Yep, you can literally grenade jump out of Sidewinder on the Xbox version.
The old Halo video Maptacular has a good glimpse of some Halo 1 glitches
Yes though you can still save clips without, but you have to snap game dvr and then end the clip from there. It's more time consuming, but you can specify how long a clip you want to save. "Xbox. Record that " will just save the last 30 seconds.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes.
You can still still snap Game DVR a choose to render up to the last 5 minutes though.
Fuck it, looks like I'm buying the kinect version.
My room is too small for it, though.
So is mine, doesn't stop it working for voice command stuff though.
It better not if it's anything like the last kinect.
I'm willing to bet that H2A will have the library kinect stuff, too.
This part I bolded because I don't think you understand the importance of teleporters in map flow. A good map designer that's creating an arena-style map should always incorporate ways to make a map flow better.
In Halo CE's world, we can't rocket jump to gain height advantage or get to a different floor level, so grenade jumping kinda allowed quicker movement to a ledge or something, but the teleports made for what we couldn't pull off in Halo CE compared to Quake 3.
Quake 3 has teleports in strategic locations, but rocket jumping was a risk/reward deal that gave you quicker access to ledges, levels, etc.
A map like Hang-em High doesn't have any teleports, and I think for good reason because the map is so open and the power weapons and power ups are in high-risk open areas, it makes for a more interesting match.
Leyasu
Banned
Due to the lack of a response from stinkles, I think that we are going to have to accept that just like every other halo, it is going to be the shaft for players outside of north america.
What I mean is, instead of the game automatically giving host to someone in states and a fuck you to everyone else from other regions. It will just be the same middle finger to everyone, because this time the dedicated servers will only be in north america... Basically being the same rubbish experience we have been having for ten years... For me this is a major issue,and should be something everyone on here not from north america should be pressing stinkles to find out.... Surely I wasn't the only person that hated the fact that north Americans got host 99.99% of the time in every other halo?????
Perhaps at least stinkles would like to explain to everyone why he thinks that playing with 100+ms pings in Europe is acceptable, when there are two datacenters that ping ALOT less in Europe. Or how Aussies and kiwis with their 200+ms pings will be enjoyable for them as well..... They also have datacenters over there. And Japan.
I would love to be wrong. But until confirmed otherwise, I think that it is safe to assume the scenario I have just described is what we can expect.
Lastly, I would just like to say that I have nothing against my north american cousins. Just that I would never knowingly or willingly join a game hosted on that continent, or any other continent that is not Europe for that matter..
Correct me if I am wrong, but Titanfall uses the MSFT Azure dedicated server program...and Halo is using the same thing...thus wouldn't that mean they will have them all over the world?
boredofcanada
Member
I got back into it yesterday and I think it's good too.
nealwinter
Member
I just got an email from gamestop, If you preorder from them you get the "Bandana" skull which gives you unlimited ammo and grenades.
Steelyuhas
Member
I had my X1 set up in an office setting for a few months, worked fine.
Leyasu
Banned
You are correct my friend. But until it is confirmed that halo is going to be using the exact same system. "Choose datacenter" "matchmake in your region". Then I am going to assume that that is not the case..
Plus stinkles ignoring every question from people demanding the exact same thing does not fill me with confidence... When this should be on of the easiest questions to answer regarding this game.
I have the feeling that it will be on one datacenter to ensure the player numbers are high, and a fuck you to the quality of the experience for large numbers of players.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I think once you get a chance to see some cool shit you can do with teleporters in CE, you're going to appreciate why some of us want to see them incorporated more. Wahrer mentioned telefrags, but you can also teleport on top of the Damnation, for example.
And the four people who would call this out back then were either swiftly silenced by the masses or just ignored with comments of blasphemy. Happened with a lot of crap, most notably the whole "vocal minority" nonsense which fans dealth with for years.
YEAH, VOCAL MINORITY EH?! Perhaps that vocal minority should've been listened to day one when the changes being asked for never would've hurt the core identity of Halo. Whatever though.. it's all in the past and now we're getting The Master Chief Collection thanks to Halo Hero Dan Ayoub :]
Hype.Duuuuude... I just realized how great "Xbox Record That" is gonna be for this collection. No more having to go to Theater to get the clip you want.
Wellllllllll.... nothing practical at least, but you could do some slick tricks with OS+Rockets+'nades though, like getting to the top ledge of where the OS spawns in Chiron ;]
Good posts btw. Your knowledge of teh Haloz is quite extensive. Every post about CE gets me more and more excited to play this game again.
Thank you. I'm not a Halo pro by any stretch, but I played countless hours of system link with my friends all the time for four to five years (since the week of the Xbox launch in 2001), still played every chance I had after Halo 2 released and H3, etc.
I also play a lot of Quake Live, so the two games in my opinion compliment one another in so many ways.
I can't help but think...what happened with Halo that this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxwsOOIqiMQ#t=94 was so bad that they changed Halo so much into practically a completely different game. I mean, when I watch that video, I can't fathom why they would disregard everything that made Halo CE what it was.
I'm all for evolving the design of the game, but lets improve, not add shit because it's "fun" for fun's sake. Ditching the AR/Pistol start for SMG starts was just bad, bad design. I don't get why that became the default standard for Halo post-Halo 2....start with shit, get better shit, die, lose your shit, respawn with shit, hope to get a lucky spawn to get your better shit back.
Havoc2049
Member
I've been into Halo multiplayer since CE and I feel the same way. Ya, I enjoy Halo CE and 2 multiplayer more than 4, but I still feel 4 is a solid multiplayer experience.
One thing I have noticed though, is that if you go onto some of these Halo stat tracking sites and put in the gamer tags of some of the biggest complainers (Halo 4 is a COD clone!), you find they have either no Halo 4 stats or have limited experience. And sometimes it just isn't with Halo 4, but across all Halo games. I know people have multiple gamers tags and change game tags, but it is something to consider.
Are you insinuating that if I only played say....36 hours of Halo 4, that I some how don't have valid experience to form opinions of a critical negative about the game? It couldn't be that I simply have a distaste for the game and so those 36 hours were plenty to figure out what was wrong with the game?
I have over something like 6,000 played games on Halo 2, and Halo 3 I had something like half that, then Reach, and Halo 4, it just gets lower and lower. What does that tell you?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
This question has been on my mind for ~10 years now. Bungie always painted CE in the light of, "LOL broken Pistol, HUGE mistake! Never again, better Halo with Halo 3. Magnum with 8 shots and slow ROF can be great and do nasty things even against BR users. Blah blah marketing marketing etc etc"
With the rise of social media and a greater sense of transparency from game devs, gamers have grown more aware of these tactics (also because we're all getting older and wiser), so now people are starting to realize more "things" in retrospect.
How about the thousands of people calling CE fans nostalgic fanboys for so many years when those same people admittedly have little to no experience with this no-XBL-having game?
Just saying, it goes both ways.
Titanfall has worldwide servers yeah, even in countries such as Japan where the Xbox One isn't out yet
I really think, judging from all the developer quotes throughout the years, that the Halo CE multiplayer suite was kind of an afterthought and the fact that it was so amazing was more or less a very serendipitous event that Bungie never really appreciated as much as its hardcore fans did. They seemed to spend the rest of their time on the series changing it to fit their actual vision of what it should / should have been.
shinobi602
Member
Of course you're not the only one. I enjoyed it a lot and I've been a nut since 2001.
rokkerkory
Member
Yes please get rid of ordnance, kills the idea of knowing where all the key weapons are and having to fight / protect them.
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