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[block tower]

Why? I'm not mocking anyone. I just want to look like a character I like.

10/10 your not going to convince anyone your lee from the walking dead lol. the clothes plus you in blackface doesn't make your costume any more apparent. you'd just look like a white guy dressed in normal American clothes with brown face paint. its not really an acceptable way to imitate someone from another ethnicity like that. it would be as ridiculous as a black person wanting to be Rick from walking dead by painting their face white, getting a brown wig and a sheriff's costume, the whole getup would look like a comical parody because it's not conveying anything about those characters in a serious way. those characters could be of any ethnicity, it's the essence of the character you imitate, not the ethnicity, because itll always turn into an ethnic caricature.

 

[MIMIC]

And as people explained, there is a difference between unintentional ignorance and arguing for something once you're aware how offensive it is.

If his girlfriend continues to think it's okay, or argues in favour of it, then she's being intentionally ignorant.

People in this thread are trying to educate others in sensitivity and empathy, but it's being rejected by people like we're trying to raise taxes or something.

This is the impression I'm getting. Learning that something is racist, learning WHY it's racist, but being dismissed because of "different culture" and whatnot.....even when the specific instances of black face are being used to mock black people.

Why? I'm not mocking anyone. I just want to look like a character I like.

I've never heard of this person, but I'm sure that apart from his race, he's identifiable in plenty other ways.

 

[GingerNathan]

Okay, I must concede that I honestly don't get it. I understand that a mockery of a race is unacceptable. And that reducing them to being black is at least ignorant. But not being able to dress up as a specific black character you like for no other reason than 'just don't do it' is hard for me to grasp.

Yeah I don't understand that. The costume wouldn't be representing an entire race, it wouldn't have the usual troupe of a blackface, plus I assume the costume would be worn at some kind of convention thus little chance of misunderstanding its origins. I'm not trying to be ignorant but can anybody explain that please?

 

[ISOM]

Quoting myself as I've already explained this:

That too.

 

[Gustav]

If you were cosplaying an Asian character from a game would you tape your eyes back?

Personally, I wouldn't do it. But I have seen people that wear makeup in a way to make their eyes look more Asian.

 

[Particle Physicist]

.

 

[bobbychalkers]

Just so I can understand. Let's say it's a Halloween party and I wanted to go as Lee from the Walking Dead game and would find a fitting outfit and paint myself black, dye my hair, etc. Would that be acceptable?

Do everything but paint yourself black. Carry a prop hatchet to make it look more like Lee but do not paint yourself black. Historical baggage aside, it will not look good, ever....
If this kid can pull off Goku without painting his skin, then you can do the same for a Lee costume.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Why? I'm not mocking anyone. I just want to look like a character I like.

Why don't you just dress like the dude? Why can't it end there? If anyone asks who you are just tell them.

I've gone out as characters who are Asian and I've never put on yellow face or squinted my eyes. It's fucking unnecessary.

A white guy I know went as Balrog from StreetFighter one year, no Black-face bullshit. It was all good.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

obviously scripted controversy is obvious. If they actually gave a shit they would have not shown this douche clown on tv and kicked him out of the party.

 

[Captain Europe]

I can tell you that A LOT of people here in Germany have no concept of blackface. My girlfriend was confronted with it for the first time when "How I met your mother" was criticized for 'yellow facing'. She was totally confused as to why this was an issue at all.

I was the same honestly, until I found out it was an issue on the internet.

We have stuff like this on TV here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXltyRutU2Q&hd=1 - white woman pretending to be black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkGpsvRA80A&hd=1 - white woman pretending to be Asian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQfNRzvY4uw&hd=1 - black man pretending to be a gay white man.

I'm assuming that would be considered offensive in America? I can't tell other people not to be offended at stuff like this, but I'm gay and I'm not offended by the last one, as long as it's all in good fun, I can laugh at it.

 

[Slayven]

It is telling folks only feel blackface is only needed for black characters.

 

[block tower]

Do everything but paint yourself black. Carry a prop hatchet to make it look more like Lee but do not paint yourself black. Historical baggage aside, it will not look good, ever....
If this kid can pull off Goku without painting his skin, then you can do the same for a Lee costume.

i almost went as Lee last Halloween, im Czech/African-American and look just like him lol. might do it next year.

 

[Gustav]

Why don't you just dress like the dude? Why can't it end there? If anyone asks who you are just tell them.

I've gone out as characters who are Asian and I've never put on yellow face or squinted my eyes. It's fucking unnecessary.

A white guy I know went as Balrog from StreetFighter one year, no Black-face bullshit. It was all good.

Just to clear that up. I would never do it, as I would be afraid of upsetting and disrespecting other people. Also, I feel no need paint myself black at all. But at the same time, I would not call somebody a racist for doing it for a specific costume. I would think that the costume might be insensitive, but I would never conclude that the person is a racist.

Is that similar to how you guys from the US feel about this?

 

[block tower]

Just to clear that up. I would never do it, as I would be afraid of upsetting and disrespecting other people. Also, I feel no need paint myself black at all. But at the same time, I would not call somebody a racist for doing it for a specific costume. I would think that the costume might be insensitive, but I would never conclude that the person is a racist.

Is that similar to how you guys from the US feel that have chimed in in this??

yes, you got it man.

 

[Forceatowulf]

It is telling folks only feel blackface is only needed for black characters.

I wanted to go to a party as the Red Ranger as a kid and the thought of putting on white-face didn't even cross my god damn mind. It always blows me away when people feel this NEED to put on race makeup to complete the outfit.

Imagine a Black/Asian/Latino dude showing up at a party like this in a Rambo/Conan The Barbarian get-up. He would look like a complete jackass. Hint hint Black-face defenders, this is why it will always appear as offensive; it looks fucking silly and totally unnecessary and thus people interpret it as mockery.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Just to clear that up. I would never do it, as I would be afraid of upsetting and disrespecting other people. Also, I feel no need paint myself black at all. But at the same time, I would not call somebody a racist for doing it for a specific costume. I would think that the costume might be insensitive, but I would never conclude that the person is a racist.

Is that similar to how you guys from the US feel that have chimed in in this??

I don't think anyone who does this is automatically racist. The act it's self is a form of racism though. No question. But ignorance is an illness in a lot of people, some sincerely don't know any better, and it's up to people who do know better to tell them they're fucking up.

I'm not perfect. I'm still learning. I used to use phrases like "Indian Giver" for example, before I knew the sheer stupidity behind what the fuck I was saying.

 

[kamorra]

I wanted to go to a party as the Red Ranger as a kid and the thought of putting on white-face didn't even cross my god damn mind. It always blows me away when people feel this NEED to put on race makeup to complete the outfit.

Imagine a Black/Asian/Latino dude showing up at a party like this in a Rambo/Conan The Barbarian get-up. He would look like a complete jackass. Hint hint Black-face defenders, this is why it will always appear as offensive; it looks fucking silly and totally unnecessary and thus people interpret it as mockery.

People in this thread said that black people doing a "Whiteface" isn't considered offensive. Wasn't there even a movie with this theme?

Disclaimer
The above question is honest. No need to interpret something sinister.

 

[Particle Physicist]

People in this thread said that black people doing a "Whiteface" isn't considered offensive. Wasn't there even a movie with this theme?

Disclaimer
The above question is honest. No need to interpret something sinister.

FYI those are comedians doing satire. Robert Downey Jr. did blackface for Tropic Thunder and did not get shit for it because it was satire. There is definitely a fine line there though.

 

[Enzom21]

Yeah I don't understand that. The costume wouldn't be representing an entire race, it wouldn't have the usual troupe of a blackface, plus I assume the costume would be worn at some kind of convention thus little chance of misunderstanding its origins. I'm not trying to be ignorant but can anybody explain that please?

Because the character you're dressing as isn't defined by their race.
Do you know who this character is and if you don't, would you have a better idea of who it was if this person had painted his skin black?

 

[terribletwo]

There is not a shameful history of a dominant black culture parading around in white paint to objectify white people making them the butt of a comedy routine.

typically there isn't much "whiteface" except in comedy routines like that Chapelle bit or the Eddie Murphy one and those are specifically self aware examinations of race.

there was one successful example of black face which was RDJ in Tropic Thunder, but that was also self aware and quite risky... it could have been scandalous (maybe some people were offended by it, IDK)

 

[Dawg]

I honestly don't have much problem with the blackface part of Sinterklaas. I grew up with the chimney story which fits the entire tradition. I never saw them as black people and I never thought the blackface part was racist. I've never seen people abuse it either. It was always in the spirit of the event and to make children happy.

However, I can see how the red lips, the afro hair and the earrings are pushing it. I think that could be changed, as those things don't really have any relation to the chimney story.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I honestly don't have much problem with the blackface part of Sinterklaas. I grew up with the chimney story which fits the entire tradition. I never saw them as black people and I never thought the blackface part was racist. I've never seen people abuse it either. It was always in the spirit of the event and to make children happy.

However, I can see how the red lips, the afro hair and the earrings are pushing it. I think that could be changed, as those things don't really have any relation to the chimney story.

because it's not chimney soot. hes santa's black slave.

 

[GingerNathan]

It looks fucking silly and totally unnecessary and thus people interpret it as mockery.

It's pretty clear when you say it like that, cheers.

Edit

Because the character you're dressing as isn't defined by their race.
Do you know who this character is and if you don't, would you have a better idea of who it was if this person had painted his skin black?

King of Zamonda
Also well made point
To summarise, changing skin colour to mimic a specific person/character isn't important, and isn't worth potentially offending somebody you meet or who sees you.

 

[MrToughPants]

Because the character you're dressing as isn't defined by their race.
Do you know who this character is and if you don't, would you have a better idea of who it was if this person had painted his skin black?

Kim Jong Un?

 

[Forceatowulf]

People in this thread said that black people doing a "Whiteface" isn't considered offensive. Wasn't there even a movie with this theme?

Disclaimer
The above question is honest. No need to interpret something sinister.

Context my friend. Using Black/White/Asian face mockery as a form of satire, basically flipping it on it's head, to invoke a laugh is totally respectable in my opinion. Or using it for the purposes of artistic expression is fine too.

For example, Stephen Colbert got into some hot water over an Asian caricature recently and I thought it was ridiculous. It was clearly satire. And Die-Antwood had a music video where the White singer was painted Black from head to toe and I thought it was clearly done for artistic purposes and not race mockery.

Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder is another great form of satire done right.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Kim Jong Un?

Holy crap, did I just laugh loud as shit just now..thanks for that.

 

[Dennis]

lol

yes, the celebration of the black-a-moors. When black men and later arabians took over spain, portugal and naples and had great influence throughout the whole of europe, which was a fucked up place before they came.

The moors built the first university in europe (spain) and led europe (GOLD) out from the dark ages.

whenever you see these faces on flags or buildings, you know that black people used to run that place.

self explanatory

black men have always had a way with women and never had to pay for the pum pum

because when you arrive in town dressed like this....

women flock ya....

and with all this gold (unlimited amounts of untapped african gold)

black guys started to become a problem for the white european males

before europe was financially stable, they weren't racist cunts like they are now and the black man was basically their god. once europe could stand on it's own in trade, the black man became a problem to them. the black man's large penis became legend, women couldn't get enough of them. and the fact that these guys were packed to the brim with gold and pro-creating with all and whomever they chose, the white male european aristocrats feared that the white skin tone of europe would transform into a let's say "darker complexion".

yeh, so they had enough of that shit. but had to bide their time (grin and bare it).

once the portuguese and spanish white rulers found out where large deposits of african gold was (mali and ghana), they devised a plot to kick all the moors out and at the same time steal and rob all their gold.

FLASHBACK - vasco da gama, exploring(lol gold searching), murder in the name of jesus christ, stealing, slavery and racism.

FASTFORWARD - these guys!


a little history reveals everything.

That is a pretty pathetic smart-dumb troll post.

 

[kswiston]

That is a pretty pathetic smart-dumb troll post.

Based on other threads, I don't think he is trolling.

 

[DC R1D3R]

That is a pretty pathetic smart-dumb troll post.

lol

like i explained earlier.....the truth can and will hurt you like no physical blow known to man!

just deep breaths son.....

 

[Dennis]

Nah, it is a smart-dumb troll.

 

[wsippel]

You go and find a black actor. Duh

Easier said then done. If Wikipedia is to be believed, 13% of the people living in the US are black, compared to 0.7 - 1.6% in Europe. Sure, finding a black actor for a TV show or movie isn't a big deal, but it's a completely different issue with theater plays, especially school and amateur theaters. The school I went to had 600 students, not one of which was black. The school next door had 800 students, one of which was a black girl. The entire small city I grew up in had a population of more than 2,000, only one of which was black - an aging afro-american ex-GI. That was it.

 

[MrToughPants]

lol

like i explained earlier.....the truth can and will hurt you like no physical blow known to man!

just deep breaths son.....

Can your BBC theory fill the Hollow Earth one?

 

[Heshinsi]

lol

yes, the celebration of the black-a-moors. When black men and later arabians took over spain, portugal and naples and had great influence throughout the whole of europe, which was a fucked up place before they came.

The moors built the first university in europe (spain) and led europe (GOLD) out from the dark ages.

whenever you see these faces on flags or buildings, you know that black people used to run that place.

self explanatory

black men have always had a way with women and never had to pay for the pum pum

because when you arrive in town dressed like this....

women flock ya....

and with all this gold (unlimited amounts of untapped african gold)

black guys started to become a problem for the white european males

before europe was financially stable, they weren't racist cunts like they are now and the black man was basically their god. once europe could stand on it's own in trade, the black man became a problem to them. the black man's large penis became legend, women couldn't get enough of them. and the fact that these guys were packed to the brim with gold and pro-creating with all and whomever they chose, the white male european aristocrats feared that the white skin tone of europe would transform into a let's say "darker complexion".

yeh, so they had enough of that shit. but had to bide their time (grin and bare it).

once the portuguese and spanish white rulers found out where large deposits of african gold was (mali and ghana), they devised a plot to kick all the moors out and at the same time steal and rob all their gold.

FLASHBACK - vasco da gama, exploring(lol gold searching), murder in the name of jesus christ, stealing, slavery and racism.

FASTFORWARD - these guys!


a little history reveals everything.

well then what you know is wrong my friend.

Every vetted academic research on the face of the planet disagrees with you. You know that right? North Africa prior to the Arab invasion were inhabited by people who were mostly Berbers. Berbers still make up a significant portion of the population in the Maghrib, and they are not Black. It was an army of mostly Berbers and Arabs who conquered Spain. Before they started to intermarry with the local population in Spain (which resulted in the likes of Abdurahman III, the greatest Umayyad prince in Spain), the ruling Muslim families in Iberia were predominantly Syrian. Don't know where you're getting your info from, but it is wholly inaccurate.

 

[SOLIDDDD]

When RDJ went blackface in Tropic Thunder... we cool with that GAF?

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

One Halloween a group of guys I knew were dressed up as breakfast mascots. One night a guy did Aunt Jemima with no black face and no one knew who he was, and actually most guessed Betty Crocker. Another night he did it with black face and no one questioned who he was.

As much as we like to say race shouldn't be what determines an outfit, that's just the reality. We associate with what we can vividly distinguish.

 

[Kraftwerk]

lol

like i explained earlier.....the truth can and will hurt you like no physical blow known to man!

just deep breaths son.....

Your posts sound like the guy who made the space moors thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=838985

 

[Forceatowulf]

Easier said then done. If Wikipedia is to be believed, 13% of the people living in the US are black, compared to 0.7 - 1.6% in Europe. Sure, finding a black actor for a TV show or movie isn't a big deal, but it's a completely different issue with theater plays, especially school and amateur theaters. The school I went to had 600 students, not one of which was black. The school next door had 800 students, one of which was a black girl. The entire small city I grew up in had a population of more than 2,000, only one of which was black - an aging afro-american ex-GI. That was it.

People hire actors out of state/country all the time for theater plays...

If you're talking about at the school level... well then tough titties. You're not about to parade a bunch of kids around in Black-face in a play because your state/country has a diversity issues without being called out.

 

[fanboi]

Scenario:

Halloween, dress up as a black man, let say someone famous.

Would it be racist if said man (who is white) painted his face black/brown, nothing else, just skin color?

 

[terribletwo]

Scenario:

Halloween, dress up as a black man, let say someone famous.

Would it be racist if said man (who is white) painted his face black/brown, nothing else, just skin color?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/julianne-hough-crazy-eyes_n_4165972.html

 

[Supermanisdead]

Scenario:

Halloween, dress up as a black man, let say someone famous.

Would it be racist if said man (who is white) painted his face black/brown, nothing else, just skin color?

Yes.

 

[Himi]

Yes.

It shouldn't be.

 

[kamorra]

You're not about to parade a bunch of kids around in Black-face in a play because your state/country has a diversity issues without being called out.

You guys have a funny way teaching us empathy and tolerance.

 

[wsippel]

People hire actors out of state/country all the time for theater plays...

If you're talking about at the school level... well then tough titties. You're not about to parade a bunch of kids around in Black-face in a play because your state/country has a diversity issues without being called out.

"Diversity issue"...!? Well, that's certainly a new one. Completely nonsensical, but certainly new. Is the lack of Turkish people in the US a "diversity issue" as well? Because we have quite a few of them, so I guess it evens out.

Anyway, feel free to call us out and completely ignore the actual issue in your outrage: The only alternative would be to whitewash everyone, and that's actually racist. Unlike some black face paint.

 

[Enzom21]

Scenario:

Halloween, dress up as a black man, let say someone famous.

Would it be racist if said man (who is white) painted his face black/brown, nothing else, just skin color?

Yes because it is unnecessary. Unless the most defining characteristic of that person is their race, then there is no reason to paint your skin.

Here are costumes of Michonne from The Walking Dead.

Didn't have to paint their skin looks fine:

Painted skin, looks ridiculous and pretty racist:

 

[Kinyou]

Yes.

What if you wear a mask instead? Like one of those dumb Obama masks?

 

[DC R1D3R]

Every vetted academic research on the face of the planet disagrees with you. You know that right? North Africa prior to the Arab invasion were inhabited by people who were mostly Berbers. Berbers still make up a significant portion of the population in the Maghrib, and they are not Black. It was an army of mostly Berbers and Arabs who conquered Spain. Before they started to intermarry with the local population in Spain (which resulted in the likes of Abdurahman III, the greatest Umayyad prince in Spain), the ruling Muslim families in Iberia were predominantly Syrian. Don't know where you're getting your info from, but it is wholly inaccurate.

lol wtf you talking about?

stay in school....don't be a fool...and learn the golden rule!

the truth is right here.

i don't listen to no academic research. it's all been "white washed" you see. they'll tell you all kinds of crazy shit.

like black people in africa where gold has been growing forever, from day dot, didn't know the value of it and because of that didn't realise that they've always been the richest people on this planet.

they won't tell you however that in order for europeans to gain their riches, they had to steal and rob everyone else's.....

how come they don't tell you what the book of life tells them?

i only listen to scholars of truthful human history. not indoctrinated european rhetorical bullshit.

 

[GingerNathan]

Yes.

From what I've learnt today no, but it is racially insensitive. So don't do it as it's not worth it for such small aesthetic gain.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It shouldn't be.

There also shouldn't be people who dismiss valid feelings due to our tragic and shameful history, but here we are.

 

[Ovid]

What if you wear a mask instead? Like one of those dumb Obama masks?

These are really weird questions. Are you trying to make a point?

 

[Grizzlyjin]

When RDJ went blackface in Tropic Thunder... we cool with that GAF?

I think the entire point of that was showing how ridiculous his character was. Instead of just getting a Black actor, they hired a White method actor to do Black face. It's basically a criticism against Hollywood not wanting to put minority actors in major roles. Instead of casting Denzel in a role, we'd rather give it to Daniel Day Lewis and paint his face. Obviously all for comedic effect, but the issue actually comes up sometimes. I remember the movie 21 got a lot of flack for changing the races of the characters from Asian-American to White.