Shovel Knight |OT| The 8-bit adventures of Butt Butt Goes to Europe & Australia
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
I think that some of the response we're getting now is something of a counterpush to a lot of the early release hype. There've been comments thrown around about how phenomenal the game is, how it's a GOTY contender, etc, and that inflation has come with some unrealistic expectations. Shovel Knight is a well-made, retro-styled 2-D platformer. I expected to have fun playing it, and I did. I didn't expect it to change my life, and it didn't. Satisfying but not mind-blowing, and for being a $15 downloadable game, I'm perfectly content with that.
Is Mega Man 9 better? I dunno. If we're going to be harping on Shovel Knight for apparently not doing anything new, off the top of my head I don't particularly remember anything out of MM9 that turned the series on its ear and didn't rely largely on its predecessors. Those unrolling platform things in Hornet Man's stage? That's honestly the first "new mechanic" that springs to mind for me.
Definitely start with Mega Man 2 if you haven't played it already. Get the metal blade early, watch out for the stupid crash bomb boss in Wily's Castle, and everything else should be fine.
I haven't played it much and it's been a while but I think MM & Bass is kind of hard compared to the other games of the classic series. It's also easier with Bass than with MM.
Anyway, I'd also recommend 2 and 3 as entry titles. If you like them you can go forward from there. If they're still too hard try 5, it's considered by many to be the easiest of the classic series. Once you've mastered one game you can go back to the others.
As for Shovel Knight, I just think it's an amazing game. I just wish the music was a bit more memorable. It's not bad at all but so far I can't remember a single tune while there are usually several memorable songs in every Mega Man game.
Wondering this as well.
I just realized that the vendor in town will sell you relics if you came across them yet couldn't afford to buy them. They are 1000 more expensive, but better to grind the plains for one run than to go through the stage again. I replayed Plague and Treasure Knight stages because I couldn't afford the items the first time.
There is no consensus because they are all the same version, beyond some minor additions like streetpass battle, 3d layers, or Digger's Diary. They all look the same. They all play the same.
Get it where you prefer to play it.
Either is fine. I got it on PC and had a blast. May want to wait for that WiiU bug stuff to get fixed?
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I always thought an opinion carried a degree of subjectivity along with it inherently, making the term "subjective opinion" redundant. If an opinion isn't subjective to some degree it's not an opinion, is it?
Particularly in the case of video game discussion I don't think it's possible to have an objective opinion. If you state something about a game that is factual it isn't an opinion, it's a fact.
Anyway, sorry for the derail. I am having a great time with Shovel Knight so far (beat six of the bosses) but I am not a huge NES guy, I didn't get heavy into gaming until the SNES rolled around. I did go back and play MM 1 and 2 for the first time last year and I can honestly say I am finding Shovel Knight to be far more enjoyable. This is likely blasphemy for many but I honestly found the boss fights in MM1 and 2 to be fairly unremarkable and poorly designed. So much of those games is about finding the item that helps you kill a boss with next to no effort which just seems like a strange approach to me. I know I am probably being overly harsh on the games given their age, though.
Shovel Knight has some minor issues as well, many of which have been covered in this thread, but I am just having more fun with it than I did with MM1 or 2.
Stone Ocean
Member
Considering there's a chance battle mode won't make it to 3DS, I'd go with Wii U.
I cannot think of a single moment where the game requires that extreme precision. There's nothing like Quick Man's laser maze.
But the controls are still very precise. There's a reason this game is beatable without dying.
Again, there can be a learned professional opinion, such as with the Supreme Court's opinion today on birth control or a medical doctor's opinion, based on interpretation of facts. This is an objective opinion, supportable by precedent, law, and knowledge, though it may contain some elements of subjective decision making. As for software, opinions on design issues can be supported by facts, examples, historical cases, user testing results, and so on.
But if you want to call it personal opinion, go ahead. It's really unimportant to the point being made. The post in question did not provide any hard examples, nor any legitimate analysis. It was wholly and completely subjective, filled with inflammatory rhetoric. It also contains untrue statements. By the poster's own statements, his thoughts were jumbled. Ergo, it was not a well thought out and well articulated post.
It's not blasphemy because it's true. MM2's boss fights aren't very well-designed. Most of the game's value comes from the levels before them.
Knuckles give you what are essentially invincibility frames when attacking large/armored enemies, they are incredibly useful.
I think that tower of fate ascent part where there were spikes on the wall and you had to be incredibly patient was a bit overly precise. That was just one portion though.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I had a pretty good time with the levels themselves but I had a preconception going in that the bosses were going to be something special so I was pretty disappointed with that aspect of the game. Is it fair to say that Shovel Knight's bosses are more in line with Castlevania's in terms of quality? It's been awhile since I played the original Castlevania and I never did finish it but for some reason I recall them feeling similar to what I've seen in SK.
Try and center the rod to the sparkle a bit more.
The original castlevania bosses had about 6 attacks.
Combined.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
They are far more simplistic but they felt well designed for what they were. This is all based on cloudy memories though so I could be completely wrong, haha.
More like Megaman. Once you know the boss's pattern and weak spots, the fights are easy. It's figuring those things out that's the fun.
Though I thought the last boss's first form was challenging, period.
MM2's bosses are generally fairly simple and contain some pretty easy ways to exploit the AI
except for Quick Man, fuck I could never figure out a pattern for fighting him
Are you waiting until the "!!" appears? You're supposed to wait until you get the cue to reel in.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Wait for a symbol to appear to indicate you have a bite, and then press the attack button.
Ornate armor for life.
Stone Ocean
Member
Extra magic? Less gold loss per death? Charge attacks for every two shovel bounces?
Fuck all that, I want to do mad backflips.
chaobreaker
Member
Such a nice armor. I love how you land on your feet if you use a catapult while wearing it and how
King Knight be 'mirin that armour after you beat him in the gauntlet fight.
Are you sure it has invincibility frames? I'm pretty sure it's just that enemies don't damage you if they're flashing after being hit. The fast attack speed and lack of push back on the knuckles makes it easier to keep hitting large, slow enemies but it most cases it seems better to use the shovel and Phase Locket.
tim_pkmn89
Member
If you beat the last level, does NG+ start automatically?
You get an option to start it every time to load up the save file until you actually do.
Stone Ocean
Member
I wouldn't say sure, but sometimes when I used the knuckles it felt like I would've been hit if I just went with the shovel.
Heh. I thought it was pretty cool when I tried it out and it worked.
xBladeM6x
Member
That's cool. What exactly happens in NG+ in this?
Stone Ocean
Member
You take more damage from enemies and big healing items turn into bombs.
Mostly difficulty changes. You won't see new content or stage remixes.
Oh wow yea, I didn't give the knuckles enough credit. I still think the Phase Locket is better most of the time (how can it not be?) but that was great.
Which part is annoying you, the rainbow barf platform part? The propeller enemies are just a dick move the first few times.
TetraGenesis
Member
Okay, I hate to ask but I just can't decide:
Charge Handle or Drop Spark?
Charge Handle or Drop Spark?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I generally agree, I regret nothing as I've paid twice as much for worse games, but what hits me about the game more than how easy it is is this weird feeling like it's an enhanced mod of an early unfinished NES game, not a polished late gen NES game.
Apples and oranges mind you, but one thing Mega Man 9 and to an extent 10 as well really nailed in comparison to this was the desire to continue from where was left off back then. The weapons were better than many of the previous series, the difficulty was higher than any of the previous entries except maybe 2 (provided you weren't abusing the Metal Blade), and the weapons had more effects on the environment than the earlier entries, opening up more puzzle/speedrun opportunities.
Shovel Knight is an homage only, and that's fine - I guess it feels like opportunities were missed more than that mistakes were made. The more I play the more happy I am they took the time to polish what they had but the more sad I am they didn't take certain things back to the drawing board.
All in all though, I'm quite happy with it.
I find the Drop Spark more useful.
TetraGenesis
Member
Can you explain why? I want to know if it would fit my play style.
Edit: Ah, gotcha. Thanks, Cyan.
Yeah the rainbow platform part. It's just fucking awful.
This is the first section in the game that just feels unfair.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I thought the final stages were just as good as everything else in the game.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
That I can see and agree with. I'll even take it further and say that I wish more indies would target making polished SNES/Genesis type games rather than 8 bit games. I mean I started gaming seriously with the NES, but the 16bit gen was when I really got into it (middle school and most of high school for me) so those types of game designs/graphics have more nostalgia for me than 8bit stuff does.
It's definitely not that bad. It helps to just slow down. Everything can be done methodically, there's nothing that requires incredibly quick reflexes.
Propeller Knight's Stage is 100 times more difficult that all three Tower levels.
i liked this part a lot. i loved the boss gauntlet. i'm a sucker for those.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
It's the one I've played the least, and has kinda slippery controls compared to the rest of the series, maybe that's why.
I hear some people say 3 is hard and I just don't see it. Mind you, I haven't played 8 and only part of 7 (which I hear the Wily Stages are balls hard), but I generally think of the series as being fairly easy from 3 until 9. I still think of 9 as the best of the classic games, 2 isn't exactly overrated but it's probably the least balanced. Everyone hates 4 because it's so easy but it was probably the most balanced of all of them, so it's one of my favorites.
I honestly had little trouble with Propeller Knight's stage. Along with all the other stages in the game.
This is the first one that's made me just not want to play.
I found that it helps to keep moving since the propeller enemies will track to you and the platform can kill them.