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Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!

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ab.aeterno said:
You know, it's funny. In the worst throes of questioning, self-rejection, and depression I faced as an adolescent, I never imagined I'd want to have pride, or be in pride parades, or find myself acknowledging my identity and defending my place in the world. Ironically, years of the kind of bullshit these controversies bring up have made me grow defensive of the part of me I've always fought to deny, to defend against the hurtful, hateful fucking shit people like to sling. Trying to minimalize and marginalize and dismiss me made me start internalizing who I am when I felt attacked or made to not matter or need invisible, or told no one cases about gay characters, out whatever else.

What a weird way to finally begin healing.
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Sorry, because it seems that you actually got a pretty important epiphany but... the relation with thread is?"
 
ThreePiMatt said:
The website was built on very close friends working together. I think it goes without saying that Ryan and Jeff were about as close of friends as you can get. And when Ryan passes away and they're left with a gaping hole that Jeff decides to fill with another good friend you have the gall to call that "gross?"
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I think it's a bit weird to view nepotism this way if you are trying to build a commercial site for an audience. Nobody is trying to deny Jeff or anyone else the right to hang out with their friends. It's when people start hiring all their friends under the guise that they are the most qualified entry they could uncover when they searched far and wide.

I mean I guess sure if you are running a small operation and want to just hire on a buddy, I'm not sure that's the most responsible decision but it's yours to make. But if you are going to do that, then it's pretty insincere to put out a big application press release announcing that you are searching far and wide for the most qualified applicant.
 
nbthedude said:
I think it's a bit weird to view nepotism this way if you are trying to build a commercial site for an audience. Nobody is trying to deny Jeff or anyone else the right to hang out with their friends. It's when people start hiring all their friends under the guise that they are the most qualified entry they could uncover when they searched far and wide.

I mean I guess sure if you are running a small operation and want to just hire on a buddy, I'm not sure that's the most responsible decision but it's yours to make. But if you are going to do that, then it's pretty insincere to put out a big application press release announcing that you are searching far and wide for the most qualified applicant.
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That would mean it was planned long ago...
 
TheBaronOfNA said:
Sorry, because it seems that you actually got a pretty important epiphany but... the relation with thread is?"
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It's related to the idea that people think marginalized voices aren't important. He is saying that for years he tried to shut out the side of him that was marginalized and yet when he hears other people saying that then he suddenly wants to come to the defense of the value of allowing marginalized voices a space. That seems pretty relevant to the conversation about whether or not diversity at GB is important.
 
peterb0y said:
Still think your solution contains some flaws- but I respect this post. Took time to read a well-thought out response and didn't react from an entrenched position. Even if you ultimately think the same way, there was some empathy/compromise/openness which this discussion needs.

Re: your last point, I think people tend to lash out because some of this stuff is so elementary and engrained in the fabric of life that it is readily available/learnable to those willing to learn it- and as a result people get frustrated. Further, many people feel like its not their responsibility to educate those; while i don't necessarily agree with this position, I understand it when it comes after years of attempting to educate and inform, and being stonewalled by lack of reason/logic/empathy/basic human compassion, etc.
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I don't know the solution. Just trying to work it out. One thing I wish they had considered more was how their new hire would not just get along with their current audience, but also bring new people in. The site has lots of growing to do. And although I like Dan, that is one area where another person could have brought much more to the table.

I think my additional frustration comes from the fact that...I usually consider myself pretty open and aware of these issues. I felt like when people complained about the panels, i understood and agreed. I don't feel like i generally ignore or put off these sorts of issues. But honestly, when I first heard people complaining about this, it really threw me for a loop. After all, Dan is great. Who wouldn't be happy about Dan? But I understand now people being disappointed that they weren't more willing to bring a new style of voice into the fold.
 
nbthedude said:
It's related to the idea that people think marginalized voices aren't important. He is saying that for years he tried to shut out the side of him that was marginalized and yet when he hears other people saying that then he suddenly wants to come to the defense of the value of allowing marginalized voices a space. That seems pretty relevant to the conversation about whether or not diversity at GB is important.
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Oh... I don't think that (outside of in twitter meltdowns) a lot of people here are against that, Not even malicius.
 
TheBaronOfNA said:
Sorry, because it seems that you actually got a pretty important epiphany but... the relation with thread is?"
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It's a reflection that came about as a direct result of participating in the discussion in this thread. Do I really need to justify this post, particularly in a thread that has not exactly been strictly on topic in its history? :/

Edit:
nbthedude said:
It's related to the idea that people think marginalized voices aren't important. He is saying that for years he tried to shut out the side of him that was marginalized and yet when he hears other people saying that then he suddenly wants to come to the defense of the value of allowing marginalized voices a space. That seems pretty relevant to the conversation about whether or not diversity at GB is important.
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Exactly.
 
ab.aeterno said:
You know, it's funny. In the worst throes of questioning, self-rejection, and depression I faced as an adolescent, I never imagined I'd want to have pride, or be in pride parades, or find myself acknowledging my identity and defending my place in the world. Ironically, years of the kind of bullshit these controversies bring up have made me grow defensive of the part of me I've always fought to deny, to defend against the hurtful, hateful fucking shit people like to sling. Trying to minimalize and marginalize and dismiss me made me start internalizing who I am when I felt attacked or made to not matter or feel invisible, or told no one cares about gay characters, or whatever else.

What a weird way to finally begin healing.


Thanks for quoting that, I missed it. A genuinely great post that out it more eloquently than I.
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What's weird is that I have kind of the opposite problem. I generally tend to argue the more culturally conservative position in these kinds of arguments specifically to avoid the larger societal rejection and because I think loudly voicing oppositional views doesn't help change people's minds.

But then I also realize that this could just be another form of the same kind of suppression you are discussing.
 
nbthedude said:
I think it's a bit weird to view nepotism this way if you are trying to build a commercial site for an audience. Nobody is trying to deny Jeff or anyone else the right to hang out with their friends. It's when people start hiring all their friends under the guise that they are the most qualified entry they could uncover when they searched far and wide.

I mean I guess sure if you are running a small operation and want to just hire on a buddy, I'm not sure that's the most responsible decision but it's yours to make. But if you are going to do that, then it's pretty insincere to put out a big application press release announcing that you are searching far and wide for the most qualified applicant.
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I agree with your second point, but I think being buddies is a qualification in and of itself. The chemistry is paramount, GB is site driven by personalities and their interaction. Quick Looks and podcasts bring paper, and the viewership depends on that stuff.
 
nbthedude said:
It's when people start hiring all their friends under the guise that they are the most qualified entry they could uncover when they searched far and wide.
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so where's the "all" and "most qualified" in this case? Jeff clearly knows Dan and. i'd imagine he thinks he's qualified enough - though don't recall Jeff justifying the hire in any way (nor should he have to IMO.) Things like personality and familiarity would quite likely have played into the decision aswell.

Oestreicher I'm not sure if anyone even knew.
 
ab.aeterno said:
It's a reflection that came about as a direct result of participating in the discussion in this thread. Do I really need to justify this post, particularly in a thread that has not exactly been strictly on topic in its history? :/
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Sorry man, I didn't want to sound like that. Specially because it seemed to be a pretty important realization. I know that some epiphanies can come from anywhere. Glad to hear that this discussion had a positive effect.
 
TheXbox said:
I agree with your second point, but I think being buddies is a qualification in and of itself. The chemistry is paramount, GB is site driven by personalities and their interaction. Quick Looks and podcasts bring paper, and the viewership depends on that stuff.
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I don't think "chemistry" is magic. You put two articulate people who are passionate about a subject in a room together and you let them work together for a while. Conversational chemistry develops. And actually I think develops into more interesting conversations when you have people that don't share the same cultural perspectives and touchstones. It's a more interesting conversation both for you and for your audience.
 
I just want to say one thing about the new guys: I'm really happy they hired a guy who likes action and fighting games, because they were seriously lacking in that department before. Especially since they have access to people like Ed Boon, Seth Kilian and Dave Lang and their companies.
Hopefully we will get some fighting game content, maybe just play Street Fighter against the community online once a week or something, have a guest sometimes, you're in SF. Could be great.

Now back to the insanity that happened here today or whatever.
 
nbthedude said:
NO I believe the joke was the insinuation of Vinny having sex with his kid. I can't believe that had to be spelled out. It seemed pretty clear to me.
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nbthedude said:
I think it's a bit weird to view nepotism this way if you are trying to build a commercial site for an audience. Nobody is trying to deny Jeff or anyone else the right to hang out with their friends. It's when people start hiring all their friends under the guise that they are the most qualified entry they could uncover when they searched far and wide.

I mean I guess sure if you are running a small operation and want to just hire on a buddy, I'm not sure that's the most responsible decision but it's yours to make. But if you are going to do that, then it's pretty insincere to put out a big application press release announcing that you are searching far and wide for the most qualified applicant.
Click to expand...

While it was always Jeff's decision on who they hire they still have to abide by CBSi's application policy. He probably intended on hiring Dan for a long time. I'm not even sure Giant Bomb advertised the editor job on Twitter like they do with the engineering jobs. I don't think Jeff is wrong or insincere because the internet blew up the new hire speculation into something like LeBron James and "The Decision."
 
Hot Coldman said:
I wonder if Jeff would have gotten away with saying "yeah I'm hiring Dan" publicly at the top of the recruitment process.
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He seems to have wanted to really manage this announcement and it hasn't really worked out that way. He's mentioned before he didn't handle Brad Nicholson well and that's why the community rejected him. With Patrick, he wrote a story saying why Giant Bomb is getting in to news but not really justifying Patrick as an on-air personality. This time, he wanted to introduce someone on the Bombcast where they could introduce themselves, but people pieced together it was Dan (because people guessed it was everyone who ever lost a job and with Dan it happened to be right), so it just looked like Jeff was hiding information everyone had already figured out.
 
kenta said:
Confession: I still don't understand what was so offensive about Brad's comment that it got the reaction it did. Like, I literally don't know how to process what he said
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shadyspace said:
Same here. It was a pretty clear cut "you got a small dick" joke.
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It implies that Vinny is either showing his penis to his very young child, or that his child is looking at his dads penis.
 
ThreePiMatt said:
While it was always Jeff's decision on who they hire they still have to abide by CBSi's application policy. He probably intended on hiring Dan for a long time. I'm not even sure Giant Bomb advertised the editor job on Twitter like they do with the engineering jobs. I don't think Jeff is wrong or insincere because the internet blew up the new hire speculation into something like LeBron James and "The Decision."
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If that was the case then hat seems even worse. What you seem to be implying is that CBSi has an equal opportunity hiring procedure (as most companies do) and Jeff was forced to go through it even though he intended to hire his buddy.
 
Hot Coldman said:
I wonder if Jeff would have gotten away with saying "yeah I'm hiring Dan" publicly at the top of the recruitment process.
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Oh, a lot could have been avoided if they changed how they handled the original posting given how they so openly publicized the opening, and how insidery the result ended up being.

Going from an extremely open call for an Associate Editor position, only to go with Dan, change the job to Senior Editor, play a weird WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT game for a month while it was plainly obvious that it was Dan, was only going to attract criticism.
 
nbthedude said:
I don't think "chemistry" is magic. You put two articulate people who are passionate about a subject in a room together and you let them work together for a while. Conversational chemistry develops.
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Many times is not that simple. You will be surprised of how many people in the same field of work and passions can not get along.

And actually I think develops into more interesting conversations when you have people that don't share the same cultural perspectives and touchstones. It's a more interesting conversation both for you and for your audience.
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Oh, I agree, but "chemistry" has not to do with background or knowladge to an extrent
 
kenta said:
See I feel like you're making some leaps in logic there. If Max called Vinny's penis a leg... how would that imply incest?

Okay I can get behind that
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vinny said thats what some people call it, you know... typical "i have a big cock" joke? I cant tell if youre trolling or not
 
You know the worst thing is that reading all this makes me not want to consume Giant Bomb content, simply because I don't want to be associated with all this. But that's incredibly unfair to the site itself, because they basically had no role in all this shit.

I mean I was all excited yesterday, Jesus I was excited this morning!, and now it's like I'm dreading a live stream because of how they'll have to deal with the community.

I especially feel bad for Dan and Jason who just moved across the country and join this site and the THIS happens.

I think I need to do my best to stop coming to this thread and the other one for a bit. Clear my head. :/
 
nbthedude said:
If that was the case then hat seems even worse. What you seem to be implying is that CBSi has an equal opportunity hiring procedure (as most companies do) and Jeff was forced to go through it even though he intended to hire his buddy.
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Just how naive are you?

Even if that was the case.. which cannot be proven... it happens all the damn time in all businesses and companies.. is it right, no.. everyone should be given a chance..

Now, there is no way to confirm this is the case here. So is a pointless alley of conspiracy to go in
 
kenta said:
See I feel like you're making some leaps in logic there. If Max called Vinny's penis a leg... how would that imply incest?

Okay I can get behind that
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I'll just go with the other dude's interpretation. When it happened, I hadn't thought much of it until the reactions got crazy and read that that's how I was supposed to understand it.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
He seems to have wanted to really manage this announcement and it hasn't really worked out that way. He's mentioned before he didn't handle Brad Nicholson well and that's why the community rejected him. With Patrick, he wrote a story saying why Giant Bomb is getting in to news but not really justifying Patrick as an on-air personality. This time, he wanted to introduce someone on the Bombcast where they could introduce themselves, but people pieced together it was Dan (because people guessed it was everyone who ever lost a job and with Dan it happened to be right), so it just looked like Jeff was hiding information everyone had already figured out.
Click to expand...

StopMakingSense said:
Oh, a lot could have been avoided if they changed how they handled the original posting given how they so openly publicized the opening, and how insidery the result ended up being.

Going from an extremely open call for an Associate Editor position, only to go with Dan, change the job to Senior Editor, play a weird WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT game for a month while it was plainly obvious that it was Dan, was only going to attract criticism.
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure he did that believing he was not fooling anyone. Is weird to me hear that some people were believing he was hidding it for the sake of some shady stuff.
 
Patryn said:
You know the worst thing is that reading all this makes me not want to consume Giant Bomb content, simply because I don't want to be associated with all this. But that's incredibly unfair to the site itself, because they basically had no role in all this shit.

I mean I was all excited yesterday, Jesus I was excited this morning!, and now it's like I'm dreading a live stream because of how they'll have to deal with the community.

I especially feel bad for Dan and Jason who just moved across the country and join this site and the THIS happens.

I think I need to do my best to stop coming to this thread and the other one for a bit. Clear my head. :/
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I've never envied how they have to deal with the community, because clearly they're not happy with them anymore. They like the a lot of them, but after E3, there was definitely a sense of "Man, fuck the Giant Bomb community" from them, which I assume had to do with the fact that there were women during the E3 discussions and the community's gonna do what it does.

But they can't cut the community out or really come down on them hard because that's where the money comes from.
 
nbthedude said:
I don't think "chemistry" is magic. You put two articulate people who are passionate about a subject in a room together and you let them work together for a while. Conversational chemistry develops. And actually I think develops into more interesting conversations when you have people that don't share the same cultural perspectives and touchstones. It's a more interesting conversation both for you and for your audience.
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I'm going to assume that Jeff has a better idea of what makes someone right for the job they do than a random guy on neogaf. Your implication that he just went out and hired his buddy because he wanted to hang out at work is shitty.
 
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