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Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!

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Stimpack said:
This was uh.... posted in the other thread.... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=119151608&postcount=570

Definitely enlightening, to say the least.
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i am not an equality feminist. i don’t believe that an asymmetrical world will be cured by polite obsequence to male-dominated systems. i am not a liberal humanist. i don’t believe that i need to stand up for men when they’ve been standing on top of everyone else.
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I think that most people who aren't humanists are human pieces of shit.

in this sinking ship of a world, i just want to enjoy a tiny little space, a room, if you will, of my own. i want that room to be full of women and free from ego, hierarchy, sexual advances, and violence
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TIL women don't have hierarchies, don't make sexual advances and are never violent. Sam is even more naive than she is hypocritical. In a post apocalyptic world filled with only women, they wouldn't just all be sharing food and joining knitting circles.

There are moral, decent people, and immoral selfish people. Her being born one gender and now having another is proof positive that we're really all just human beings who don't deserve to be generalized in a sweeping manner.
 
Archaix said:
You should actually think about what's being said instead. When the problem is a lack of diversity, hiring only within a circle you're already comfortable with isn't the solution, and absolutely cannot be used as a defense.. They're right.
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And I didn't said I disagreed it... or at least I can see their point... the way nbthedude and Baking Pie expresed it is the one that makes me annoyed.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
It's not specifically about Dan.

It's that whenever you get into this discussion about diversifying hires, there's this common response of, "well shouldn't you hire the most qualified person instead? then everything's equal!"

Which sounds 100% logical on its face, but it actually makes a bunch of assumptions:

A) That the pool of talent available (and the even smaller number of people that an employer will look at) is equal and not inherently lopsided towards a particular group
B) That "qualifications" are an objective thing that can only be measured in one universal fashion
C) That diverse opinions and backgrounds for your staff is just fluff and not a "real" benefit compared to X Number of Years at Workplace
D) That the lopsided number of hires from one demographic that occurred before an attempt to diversify must have all been completely equal and fair to everyone, and therefore people outside that demographic must all be objectively less skilled/qualified or uninterested in the field (and thus ignorable)
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DING DING DING
 
ThreePiMatt said:
The only thing coded here is your accusations. Just come out and say what you think.
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I was pretty specific. That it is often code for "we feel comfortable around this person and their views and tastes."

If I were going to lay the blame on one thing for the videogame journalist industry's lack of diverse opinion it wouldn't be outright racism, ageism or misogyny. It would be nepotism. It doesn't seem to me to be a very professionally driven industry. it's a lot of the same small group of people hiring on their buddies everywhere. Because they want to pal around with them and talk about wrasslin and goof off. And though it is probably entirely unintentional, that is exactly the way you get a good old boys club.
 
HilariousLeanHammerkop.gif
 
EmCeeGramr said:
It's not specifically about Dan.

It's that whenever you get into this discussion about diversifying hires, there's this common response of, "well shouldn't you hire the most qualified person instead? then everything's equal!"

Which sounds 100% logical on its face, but it actually makes a bunch of assumptions:

A) That the pool of talent available (and the even smaller number of people that an employer will look at) is equal and not inherently lopsided towards a particular group
B) That "qualifications" are an objective thing that can only be measured in one universal fashion
C) That diverse opinions and backgrounds for your staff is just fluff and not a "real" benefit compared to X Number of Years at Workplace
D) That the lopsided number of hires from one demographic that occurred before an attempt to diversify must have all been completely equal and fair to everyone, and therefore people outside that demographic must all be objectively less skilled/qualified or uninterested in the field (and thus ignorable)
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Thanks for the reasoned answer.
I guess I just don't understand what the appropriate hire would have been.

If It is wrong to hire the most qualified person then how the hell do you hire anyone?
 
Anyone recall the name of the plane crash survival game on UPF?
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Drew is still a little awkward on camera and on the podcast and mostly stays quiet in both. It's weird I don't see many calls for him to be replaced.
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its cause you can tell hes genuinely one of the nicest people at gb so you'd feel like an ass if you didnt like him. all the little things you'll notice on the videos where he'll be the one to grab the scissors or pick up something off the floor. i see that shit.
 
Just thinking. If GB east decide to do a podcast of their own are there many other gaming sites in the area they can have guests from?

I think Kotaku has its main office in NYC?
 
EmCeeGramr said:
It's not specifically about Dan.

It's that whenever you get into this discussion about diversifying hires (in any field), there's this common response of, "well shouldn't you hire the most qualified person instead? then everything's equal!"

Which sounds 100% logical on its face, but it actually makes a bunch of assumptions:

A) That the pool of talent available (and the even smaller number of people that an employer will look at) is equal and not inherently lopsided towards a particular group
B) That "qualifications" are an objective thing that can only be measured in one universal fashion
C) That diverse opinions and backgrounds for your staff is just fluff and not a "real" benefit compared to X Number of Years at Workplace
D) That the lopsided number of hires from one demographic that occurred before an attempt to diversify must have all been completely equal and fair to everyone, and therefore people outside that demographic must all be objectively less skilled/qualified or uninterested in the field (and thus ignorable)
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This. Especially C. As I said earlier it would really be great to hear from someone on GB that doesn't hold a lot of the same tastes and actually has a differing cultural perspective. I like these dudes but aside from Patrick they are all 30ish white straight American males who ironically like pop-culture and whose tastes bend heavily towards mainstream western action and RPG games. Patrick is at least a slight deviation from this in that he's a bit younger and more diverse in his gaming tastes. And in that he makes a concerted effort to seek out unique personalities and voices as guests on his morning show.
 
funkystudent said:
Just thinking. If GB east decide to do a podcast of their own are there many other gaming sites in the area they can have guests from?

I think Kotaku has its main office in NYC?
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they can def invite the Kotaku guys over. Some of the Polygon guys are in NY too, iirc.
 
peterb0y said:
man... way to totally miss the point.
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No i just phrased it poorly. I simply meant to say. I am glad I am not in the position to hire anyone. Because clearly these considerations are not things that come to mind.

I think I, like apparently a lot of other people, would create a list of criteria. If a person fit those criteria i would hire them.

Clearly this is not the most sensitive/best practice. But I can easily see how it can happen

It seems like the real solution is to broaden your criteria, and include other items. that are maybe less SEEMINGLY "performance related".


And I wish more people would take EmCee's approach of educating rather than just telling people how wrong they are.
 
ThreePiMatt said:
You're insinuating that "all this qualified talk is coded." Coded for what exactly?
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Mainly that they will hire other people who they hang out within the industry, which just happens to have always mostly been white men. It's a perpetuating cycle, and calling people qualified when it mostly seems they networked right is pretty gross.

Knowing that, how can a woman feasibly network right in the same way within this industry to have gotten to this same spot?
 
BearPawB said:
Thanks for the reasoned answer.
I guess I just don't understand what the appropriate hire would have been.

If It is wrong to hire the most qualified person then how the hell do you hire anyone?
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There's no good answer to this that everyone will agree too

Unless the best candidate is acceptable as representative of a bunch of parties. I guess that's a good answer
 
Jintor said:
There's no good answer to this that everyone will agree too

Unless the best candidate is acceptable as representative of a bunch of parties. I guess that's a good answer
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I think that is argument about maybe no being so defensive or abrassive about the issue. As is a real issue that people should talk about, but maybe consider that there is no easy anwsers.
 
One thing I thought people in general would have more nuance with (and something that GAF have really focused on cracking down on) is this idea of defining a "community" by the actions of a few assholes. What seems to be the consistent use of the term "Giant Bomb community" to so broadly paint a brush is simplistic and reductive.
 
Zaph said:
pls, TEDx.

That letter is important.
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LOL

Patryn said:
Drew only became a regular on the Bombcast out of pure attrition. If Ryan hadn't passed away, he would only be showing up occasionally for a racing QL or a UPF. They just needed another body and couldn't hire anybody else. It's extraordinary circumstances.

I'm actually curious if he fades away from being a regular in lieu of a Jeff/Brad/Dan/Jason lineup.
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i doubt it. i think Dan sorta fills the roll of Ryan being a co-host with Jeff but Jason actually fulfills Drew's old role as second in command for video and Drew fills Vinny's role.

OLD > NEW

Ryan > Dan
Drew > Jason
Vinny > Drew
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Mainly that they will hire other people who they hang out within the industry, which just happens to have always mostly been white men. It's a perpetuating cycle, and calling people qualified when it mostly seems they networked right is pretty gross.

Knowing that, how can a woman feasibly network right in the same way within this industry to have gotten to this same spot?
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What makes you think that there were not strong female applicants?
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Mainly that they will hire other people who they hang out within the industry, which just happens to have always mostly been white men. It's a perpetuating cycle, and calling people qualified when it mostly seems they networked right is pretty gross.

Knowing that, how can a woman feasibly network right in the same way within this industry to have gotten to this same spot?
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The website was built on very close friends working together. I think it goes without saying that Ryan and Jeff were about as close of friends as you can get. And when Ryan passes away and they're left with a gaping hole that Jeff decides to fill with another good friend you have the gall to call that "gross?"
 
I was behind on my Bombcast listening, so I listened to all 3 post E3 episodes this morning/afternoon. Brad was surprisingly fantastic as host, kudos to him.
 
Maaan I've been reading this shit storm happening all day and I just have to point something out.
Two people who share the same gender and race can (and most often do) have varying personalities, thoughts, wants, needs desires, hopes, dreams, philosophies, childhoods, experiences and yes - even tastes in gaming.

It makes me upset that people automatically assume that these two people are going to be exactly the same as everyone else. We're people thinking that when Patrick was hired? And look how Patrick has changed and evolved over time - both his writing style and his overall personality.
 
GitarooMan said:
One thing I thought people in general would have more nuance with (and something that GAF have really focused on cracking down on) is this idea of defining a "community" by the actions of a few assholes. What seems to be the consistent use of the term "Giant Bomb community" to so broadly paint a brush is simplistic and reductive.
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Everyone always generalizes though. Look how many times things like 'Mericuh are used for some random thing someone did somewhere in the US. Or even recently, even CliffyB saying that a lot of devs think GAF is a bunch of cunts. Something a few people do, automatically gets generalized to the larger community, country, group they are part of.
 
GitarooMan said:
One thing I thought people in general would have more nuance with (and something that GAF have really focused on cracking down on) is this idea of defining a "community" by the actions of a few assholes. What seems to be the consistent use of the term "Giant Bomb community" to so broadly paint a brush is simplistic and reductive.
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I agree with that.
 
You know, it's funny. In the worst throes of questioning, self-rejection, and depression I faced as an adolescent, I never imagined I'd want to have pride, or be in pride parades, or find myself acknowledging my identity and defending my place in the world. Ironically, years of the kind of bullshit these controversies bring up have made me grow defensive of the part of me I've always fought to deny, to defend against the hurtful, hateful fucking shit people like to sling. Trying to minimalize and marginalize and dismiss me made me start internalizing who I am when I felt attacked or made to not matter or feel invisible, or told no one cares about gay characters, or whatever else.

What a weird way to finally begin healing.

BTA said:
This put what I was getting at earlier far better than I could, so thanks for saying this.
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Thanks for quoting that, I missed it. A genuinely great post that out it more eloquently than I.
 
BearPawB said:
No i just phrased it poorly. I simply meant to say. I am glad I am not in the position to hire anyone. Because clearly these considerations are not things that come to mind.

I think I, like apparently a lot of other people, would create a list of criteria. If a person fit those criteria i would hire them.

Clearly this is not the most sensitive/best practice. But I can easily see how it can happen

It seems like the real solution is to broaden your criteria, and include other items. that are maybe less SEEMINGLY "performance related".


And I wish more people would take EmCee's approach of educating rather than just telling people how wrong they are.
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Still think your solution contains some flaws- but I respect this post. Took time to read a well-thought out response and didn't react from an entrenched position. Even if you ultimately think the same way, there was some empathy/compromise/openness which this discussion needs.

Re: your last point, I think people tend to lash out because some of this stuff is so elementary and engrained in the fabric of life that it is readily available/learnable to those willing to learn it- and as a result people get frustrated. Further, many people feel like its not their responsibility to educate those; while i don't necessarily agree with this position, I understand it when it comes after years of attempting to educate and inform, and being stonewalled by lack of reason/logic/empathy/basic human compassion, etc.
 
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