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[Mael]

It's posts like this that always make me sad about these discussions, where people on both sides of the argument like to reduce each massive medium into small genres. Western comics aren't uniquely about superheroes just as Manga aren't uniquely about Shonen/Moe.

The criticism that all comics have 10 different timelines for each group is only really a problem in the cape and cowl genre and those aren't the only western comics in existence, you could read comics for years without touching a cape. As for the comment about a middling mangaka being better than the best western writer it comes across as mere fanboyism and is worthy only of a raised eyebrow.

The reason I don't read manga over western comics is simply down to lack of exposure on my part. I know which comics I will love or at least will find interesting as I know where to go to get information about upcoming books or recommended books. With manga I don't and these leads to me guessing, sometimes I guess correctly ie Berzerk, Uzumaki, Akira, Biomega, Blame!, Ghost in the Shell and sometimes I don't.

I would probably enjoy manga more if I knew what was there and how to get at the stuff that sounded interesting to me, but all the manga boards I see tend to recommend books that I have no interest in, and since I have no idea of what to choose I tend to get stuck on the most popular stuff which tends to be either shonen/moe or awfully translated.

What I would love is if there was a website somewhere that let you choose the comics you loved and then based on those provide you with some decent manga to get started with.

As for the comment about a middling mangaka being better than the best western writer it comes across as mere fanboyism and is worthy only of a raised eyebrow.

And vice versa really, I guess I'll have to make do with asking people who know their stuffs irl...
As an aside I feel like animated adaptation for mangas tend to be....less shitty than their US comics counterparts that tend to be low budget kid stuffs to sell toys :/
I hope to god I'm wrong there...

 

[andymcc]

One last thing. A lot of people are taking shots at Dragon Ball as a counterexample to all the criticisms against superhero comics. It's a bad example because DB has a consistent story line with a beginning and an end and it lasted somewhat like 10 years. A more apt comparison would be Golgo 13, which is started in the 60s and is still going. It is episodic and the stories revolve around Golgo 13 much than a setting with characters. Compilations of favorite cases where released, comprising of issues from different decades, and it mostly holds. That would be very hard to do with Dragon Ball.

Not only that but Dragon Ball (the manga) has pretty good paneling, the fight scenes look great, and the pacing is very brisk. I think people conflate the Dragon Ball manga with the anime, as evidenced from the Z/GT posts as if the manga didn't fall under one umbrella title.

 

[Pluto]

So I can start in the middle of, for exemple, Dragon Ball and understand everything?

No, but why would anyone just start in the middle of Dragonball?

Look at it this way, someone wants to read Dragonball and asks where to start, the obvious answer is volume 1. The answer is the same for One Piece, Sailor Moon, 20th Century Boys, Berserk, Monster, Maison Ikkoku, Akira etc..

Now imagine someone wants to get into Superman, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, X-Men or Flash. There's no obvious answer where to start, there have been countless reboots, re-tellings, re-imaginations of the origin, some have several characters using the identity of the main hero, the creative teams change all the time which directly affects the art and story, things the current writer doesn't like are retconned without mercy and that's before the owners step in to tell the creative team to bring the comic in line with the most recent movie adaptation or a summer event or whatever affects the story at that moment, even without events several series taking place in the same universe affect each other.
And that's just the main series/main universe, there are also countless limited series for evey character, elseworlds, alternate realities, possible futures, pasts or whatever.

The DC/Marvel characters are great, the story potential is even greater but the comics are a mess, it's overwhelming and confusing without prior knowledge or guidance.
Manga usually is more accessible, once you find a genre you like or a synopsis that seems to be appealing to you, you pretty much know where to start, volume 1.

 

[Mael]

Not only that but Dragon Ball (the manga) has pretty good paneling, the fight scenes look great, and the pacing is very brisk. I think people conflate the Dragon Ball manga with the anime, as evidenced from the Z/GT posts as if the manga didn't fall under one umbrella title.

The manga is soooooooooooo much better than the anime it's not even funny.
On that topic I don't think I've seen any filler that managed to be really that interesting to watch in the end.
On top of that I feel like even the worst seinen tend to be way more interesting than your usual shonen....or our importers are doing a damn good job.

 

[Haly]

As an aside I feel like animated adaptation for mangas tend to be....less shitty than their US comics counterparts that tend to be low budget kid stuffs to sell toys :/
I hope to god I'm wrong there...

A little wrong, anime adaptations of popular manga tend to be little more than cash-ins, designed to advertise the source work. Merchandising anime, which also exists, are not usually associated with manga but with other popular toys/figure properties such as Gundam, PreCure, Pokemon, etc.

It's one of the big problems with anime actually, that most of the industry amounts to little more than extended commercials.

 

[andymcc]

Look at it this way, someone wants to read Dragonball and asks where to start, the obvious answer is volume 1. The answer is the same for One Piece, Sailor Moon, 20th Century Boys, Berserk, Monster, Maison Ikkoku, Akira etc..

It is also worth remarking that most manga (especially the ones you referenced) tend to stay in print in Japan. the collected volumes are easy to obtain and relatively low cost. on the other hand, lots of revered runs for superhero stories are sometimes not even collected in a TPB and, if so, they may only be for a limited run. there runs a difficulty in obtaining physical versions of certain comics.

 

[Mael]

A little wrong, anime adaptations of popular manga tend to be little more than cash-ins, designed to advertise the source work. Merchandising anime, which also exists, are not usually associated with manga but with other popular toys/figure properties such as Gundam, PreCure, Pokemon, etc.

It's one of the big problems with anime actually, that most of the industry amounts to little more than extended commercials.

I don't disagree with you on the state of the anime (seriously I'm only watching HxH because I really like the source material after all and I used to like Gundam once....and I mean Seed....yes guillty pleasure).
I'm just saying that it's worse on the comics side of things.
e: and moe can die in a fire!

 

[BigDes]

A little wrong, anime adaptations of popular manga tend to be little more than cash-ins, designed to advertise the source work. Merchandising anime, which also exists, are not usually associated with manga but with other popular toys/figure properties such as Gundam, PreCure, Pokemon, etc.

It's one of the big problems with anime actually, that most of the industry amounts to little more than extended commercials.

I think the truth is probably true on both sides of the ocean

Its just that here we get to see all the terrible obvious cash ins made for westerners while perhaps only the most popular/critically well received anime makes it over, which creates a slightly skewed perspective.

 

[Rayis]

Comic books have no pretty sailor mahou shoujo lolis with pretty pink outfits

 

[kswiston]

Tons of generalizations going on in this thread from both sides.

I read more western comics these days, but I like both. I can't say I like the jr high harem stuff in Manga (though Love Hina was ok), but I really liked Akira, Nausicaa, Blade of the Immortal, Lone Wolf and Cub, etc, and enjoyed some of the shonen stuff like Dragonball, and Full Metal Alchemist.

My issue with picking Manga is that I am not as familiar with what is quality and what is garbage, so I am always hesitant to start a new series. I can tell when someone is giving me a garbage suggestion for a Western comic to try, but can't say the same thing about manga.

As for people complaining about superhero or adult themed western comics, there are slice of life books as well. Just not from Marvel or Dc. Try Blue Monday from Chynna Clugston.

 

[Haly]

I don't disagree with you on the state of the anime (seriously I'm only watching HxH because I really like the source material after all and I used to like Gundam once....and I mean Seed....yes guillty pleasure).
I'm just saying that it's worse on the comics side of things.
e: and moe can die in a fire!

I don't really watch American cartoons so I can't personally say which is worse.

I think the truth is probably true on both sides of the ocean

Its just that here we get to see all the terrible obvious cash ins made for westerners while perhaps only the most popular/critically well received anime makes it over, which creates a slightly skewed perspective.

Right well, I follow a lot of the stuff that gets released every season and let me tell you, it's baaaaaaaaaaaad.

And there are a lot of new shows every season (3 months), typically 40-50, compared to maybe 3-4 new series per year Stateside? Most of that is total dreck.

 

[Kurita]

Tons of generalizations going on in this thread from both sides.

I read more western comics these days, but I like both. I can't say I like the jr high harem stuff in Manga (though Love Hina was ok), but I really liked Akira, Nausicaa, Blade of the Immortal, Lone Wolf and Cub, etc, and enjoyed some of the shonen stuff like Dragonball, and Full Metal Alchemist.

My issue with picking Manga is that I am not as familiar with what is quality and what is garbage, so I am always hesitant to start a new series. I can tell when someone is giving me a garbage suggestion for a Western comic to try, but can't say the same thing about manga.

Well if you keep hesitating you'll never know what's good or bad.

 

[Schweinehund]

Cutesy little girls (everywhere), overly long mangas that never conclude when they set out with a goal at the start (fuck you berserk). I do watch anime but I almost never watch anything longer than 60 or so episodes (Only one I've done this for is DBZ. Saw Bleach and Naruto and said nope.).

I guess people wouldn't like comics because overly macho figures and scantily clad women.

 

[Haly]

Here's a good manga for all of you comic readers who are afraid to fall into the abyss of moe and shounen haato: Wandering Son

I guess people wouldn't like comics because overly macho figures and scantily clad women.

Dohohohohohohohohoho.

 

[andymcc]

I guess people wouldn't like comics because overly macho figures and scantily clad women.

this also describes a lot of manga

 

[Kurita]

Cutesy little girls (everywhere), overly long mangas that never conclude when they set out with a goal at the start (fuck you berserk). I do watch anime but I almost never watch anything longer than 60 or so episodes.

I guess people wouldn't like comics because overly macho figures and scantily clad women.

I must be doing something wrong then, there is like no cute little girls in the series I read.

 

[Mael]

Cutesy little girls (everywhere), overly long mangas that never conclude when they set out with a goal at the start (fuck you berserk). I do watch anime but I almost never watch anything longer than 60 or so episodes (Only one I've done this for is DBZ. Saw Bleach and Naruto and said nope.).

I guess people wouldn't like comics because overly macho figures and scantily clad women.

You're confusing anime and mangas.
Mangas absolutely have a beginning and an end (except for stuffs like Beet...).
We're talking about the written stuffs not the watching stuffs.

 

[dramatis]

Not to derail this thread too much but I'm not sure why you're fighting this idea so much. Look at you - on the side of manga in this conversation, manga themed avatar (ie choosing to represent yourself to the community as being into manga), posting history mainly in manga or FF threads. If someone were to ask me what you were into, I'd say "Japanese things".

I would also tend to think Japanese Football fans would be America enthusiasts, yes. They would need to go outside of the mainstream in their culture to engage in the sport, it's a work of effort to track the things down and learn about them.

It's my experience that the things you're into inform your reactions to other things. I'm not seeing how this is controversial. You are into Japanese manga and are therefore critical of western comics because they do not fit into the cultural norms you've adopted. This is what everyone in this thread is doing from all sides of the argument.

You're quick to assume judging off of avatars and recent posts that someone is a "Japan enthusiast". I used to have a cake avatar that I found on foodgawker—but I'm not a baker or a cake connoiseur! Playing FF makes you a Japan enthusiast? So what, anyone who has ever played a Japan-made game is a Japan enthusiast? There are people I've met playing FF14 who only care about having fun in the game, and don't know left from right when it comes to Japanese culture. But presumably they're Japan enthusiasts because they played that one game a lot and therefore their preferences in media has been completely perverted to an alien culture.

I'm not being critical of western comics, I'm being critical of your commentary on manga readers. What you essentially did was call them weaboos whose taste is governed completely by being interested in media produced by a different culture. If being interested in a particular aspect of a culture that is outside of the mainstream makes one an '[Nation/Culture] enthusiast', then that's grouping you and your interest in comics (since they're quite niche) with a number of other things '[Nation/Culture]' that you may not agree with or have interest in.

A Japanese person interested in American football may not find himself very enthusiastic about American gun culture. Nor is he likely to suddenly sprout enthusiasm for American gun culture just because he likes American football. So is he an 'America enthusiast' or not?

As far as I know many of the people in the manga thread do not watch Japanese drama (some of them might even watch Korean drama instead) because they're not particularly inclined to it. So are these people 'Japan enthusiasts' or not?

There are some people that may have a taste developed over the years by close proximity and repeated consumption. However, tasty food is tasty food no matter where it comes from. With manga and comics, I think that holds. It's not as if someone who likes chicken will eat chicken for every meal of his entire life and deem all other dishes without chicken in it to be bad.

 

[kswiston]

Well if you keep hesitating you'll never know what's good or bad.

True. But I think I have reached the age where I don't care enough to do the research. I was more willing 10 years ago. Maybe when I am less busy.

 

[LosDaddie]

A lot of JPN media just doesn't appeal to me, at all. This is especially true for anime & manga. I occasionally look at some manga when I'm at book store, and I haven't seen any worth my time.

I much prefer Western media over everything else. Games, movies, comics...all of it. It's one of the reasons why I was so happy to watch Western game development take over the industry last gen

 

[nynt9]

I like a lot of European comics and Manga. The problem I have with American comics as a whole is that they seem to lack gravitas for some reason, be it due to framing, pacing, writing or a combination of all. I've read a lot of American comics but this seemed to be a common thread. The superhero stuff is just unbearable because there's literally 0 gravitas as no one really dies and plot arcs just get reset/retconned quite often. And a lot of American comics have a tone that I don't really enjoy, they usually try to be gritty and serious but every character is either a smart talker or dumb as bricks. I love Mike Mignola's style but even in his comics it just doesn't feel like the plot really goes anywhere.

I guess the more intensive work required to create the visual side of Western comics detracts from the storytelling which is usually why I spend time on any medium except gaming.

Of course there are exceptions, but this is my own opinion after having tried to get into American comics many, many times following recommendations by different people and websites.


Edit:

A lot of JPN media just doesn't appeal to me, at all. This is especially true for anime & manga. I occasionally look at some manga when I'm at book store, and I haven't seen any worth my time.

I much prefer Western media over everything else. Games, movies, comics...all of it. It's one of the reasons why I was so happy to watch Western game development take over the industry last gen

LosDaddie
keeping Americuh safe
(Today, 11:48 AM)

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Yeah read it

psssf
I prefer western comic stylized fight scenes

 

[Kurita]

Poor bear...

 

[BigDes]

Poor bear...

That bear killed my family

 

[Schweinehund]

I must be doing something wrong then, there is like no cute little girls in the series I read.

I'm mostly talking about the manga I see at B&N. Most of the shelves seem to be populated with moe or Bleach. I know not all manga is moe, just providing reasons why some people wouldn't pick up manga they see.

You're confusing anime and mangas.
Mangas absolutely have a beginning and an end (except for stuffs like Beet...).
We're talking about the written stuffs not the watching stuffs.

Nah I'm talking about the Berserk manga, it started in late 80's and hasn't finished yet .

As far as preferring one over the other, I like and enjoy both. I wouldn't want either to go away.

Another reason people may not like comics is because they have a confusing as hell reading order that usually involves buying comics that are outside the man series. This is alleviated slightly by buying the collected editions, but even then sometimes those aren't comprehensive.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

You're quick to assume judging off of avatars and recent posts that someone is a "Japan enthusiast". I used to have a cake avatar that I found on foodgawker—but I'm not a baker or a cake connoiseur! Playing FF makes you a Japan enthusiast? So what, anyone who has ever played a Japan-made game is a Japan enthusiast? There are people I've met playing FF14 who only care about having fun in the game, and don't know left from right when it comes to Japanese culture. But presumably they're Japan enthusiasts because they played that one game a lot and therefore their preferences in media has been completely perverted to an alien culture.

I'm not being critical of western comics, I'm being critical of your commentary on manga readers. What you essentially did was call them weaboos whose taste is governed completely by being interested in media produced by a different culture. If being interested in a particular aspect of a culture that is outside of the mainstream makes one an '[Nation/Culture] enthusiast', then that's grouping you and your interest in comics (since they're quite niche) with a number of other things '[Nation/Culture]' that you may not agree with or have interest in.

A Japanese person interested in American football may not find himself very enthusiastic about American gun culture. Nor is he likely to suddenly sprout enthusiasm for American gun culture just because he likes American football. So is he an 'America enthusiast' or not?

As far as I know many of the people in the manga thread do not watch Japanese drama (some of them might even watch Korean drama instead) because they're not particularly inclined to it. So are these people 'Japan enthusiasts' or not?

There are some people that may have a taste developed over the years by close proximity and repeated consumption. However, tasty food is tasty food no matter where it comes from. With manga and comics, I think that holds. It's not as if someone who likes chicken will eat chicken for every meal of his entire life and deem all other dishes without chicken in it to be bad.

You are a unique and special snowflake who is certainly into more things than only Japanese things. OK gotcha.

 

[Host Samurai]

I like them both but what I find my biggest problem with western comics is that they are hard to follow. Like where do I start if I want to read Spiderman, X Men, Batman etc. Thats like 50 years of content and have they been rebooted?

Manga is just so much easier to follow since they actually end

 

[andymcc]

Nah I'm talking about the Berserk manga, it started in late 80's and hasn't finished yet .

Berserk is the exception not the rule.

 

[Haly]

Berserk is the exception not the rule.

Nah, nah.

HxH
March 3, 1998 – ongoing
One Piece
August 4, 1997 – ongoing
Detective Conan
January 19, 1994 – ongoing

Neither short series nor long series are exceptions or rules, the entirety of manga consists of everything from single volume short stories to 30 volume 20 decade behemoths.

 

[victreeb3l]

I dont like a lot of american comic artstyles. Some are too realistic looking and others are very heavy on ink shadows and really shiny highlights. It makes the art look awkwardly bubbly and I really hate that.

The heavy ink shadows (not sure if this is the right term) also make the art look dirty at times. I also feel like manga art looks more dynamic but I havent read much american comics to make that judgment.

 

[Schweinehund]

I dont like a lot of american comic artstyles. Some are too realistic looking and others are very heavy on ink shadows and really shiny highlights. It makes the art look awkwardly bubbly and I really hate that.

The heavy ink shadows (not sure if this is the right term) also make the art look dirty at times.

I love alex ross.

Jim lee also impressive.

 

[victreeb3l]

I love alex ross.

Jim lee also impressive.

The first one looks great, but it looks like something I'd enjoy on a concept art book. I think its just the photorealism.

 

[andymcc]

Nah, nah.

HxH
March 3, 1998 – ongoing
One Piece
August 4, 1997 – ongoing
Detective Conan
January 19, 1994 – ongoing

Neither short series nor long series are exceptions or rules, the entirety of manga consists of everything from single volume short stories to 30 volume 20 decade behemoths.

I guess (with the exception of Togashi's Hiatus Adventure) the difference for Berserk is the erratic releases. Berserk has 37 volumes since 1990. The rate of release is very atypical of a manga of its popularity and length. The arcs in Berserk are very interconnected and very rarely feel like they have stopping/end points, unlike One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or any other long running manga series.

 

[AlimNassor]

Comics suck, but, graphic novels are godly. Comics suck because they are like shounen, heros have plot armor and status quo is god. There is never any sense of danger because you know they'll just be revived. Retcons, etc.

 

[Haly]

I guess (with the exception of Togashi's Hiatus Adventure) the difference for Berserk is the erratic releases. Berserk has 37 volumes since 1990. The rate of release is very atypical of a manga of its popularity and length.

That is definitely atypical, true.

 

[nynt9]

Nah, nah.

HxH
March 3, 1998 – ongoing
One Piece
August 4, 1997 – ongoing
Detective Conan
January 19, 1994 – ongoing

Neither short series nor long series are exceptions or rules, the entirety of manga consists of everything from single volume short stories to 30 volume 20 decade behemoths.

A handful of the most popular series of all time running forever, in a sea of hundreds/thousands of manga that don't. Confirmation bias.

 

[kswiston]

I like them both but what I find my biggest problem with western comics is that they are hard to follow. Like where do I start if I want to read Spiderman, X Men, Batman etc. Thats like 50 years of content and have they been rebooted?

Manga is just so much easier to follow since they actually end

I actually think that long running manga are worse in this respect. Sure Spider-man has been running for 50 years, but you can usually start a comic at the beginning of a writers run, and ignore everything before and after, while getting a fairly complete story arc. Some manga stories go on for 500+ chapters.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I actually think that long running manga are worse in this respect. Sure Spider-man has been running for 50 years, but you can usually start a comic at the beginning of a writers run, and ignore everything before and after, while getting a fairly complete story arc. Some manga stories go on for 500+ chapters.

IS that a good thing?
How many times have Batman & Joker fought?
Hundreds? Thousands of times?

 

[Haly]

A handful of the most popular series of all time running forever, in a sea of hundreds/thousands of manga that don't. Confirmation bias.

At least 100 mangas with 40 or more volumes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manga_series_by_volume_count#List

And while you're right in that most manga don't hit the 40 volume count, I should point out that most manga don't come close to reaching such a level of popularity, and that manga may be extended by editorial departments based on consistent fan appeal.

(I also don't understand the point of this digression.)

 

[DonasaurusRex]

It was mostly to shill OPM actually, I posted one of Murata's more memorable full page spreads above to make the comparison more fair.

I could go through all of the Ultimate Spiderman, which is where the Black Cat panels are from, and not find something that even comes close to Murata at his best. Something else I pulled randomly:

Latest fight from All Rounder Meguru:

...Crowz and Worst is better than both of those.

 

[captainnapalm]

I've never been able to get into manga. I'm not a fan of black and white, I find the art terribly samey, and the storytelling and character motivations frequently vague and inscrutable. The obsession with various fetishes and things in Japanese anime and manga I also find totally unappealing. The biggest thing for me is the art, though, I've never really felt much of a connection with manga/anime faces - they just don't seem real to me, even from a cartoony perspective.

With Marvel and DC, there is a huge pool of talented artists with varying styles and mostly clear storytelling featuring characters I've always loved. The shared universe aspect is also something that really appealed to me when I first started reading them - every comic and character being part of the same world and the continuity of that universe. Though it can also cause problems, obviously, because of how long these characters have been around. But when it works, as movie goers are getting a taste of with the Marvel movies, it really adds something quite cool.

It's never been easier though to get a grip on continuity, with loads of databases and wikipedia online. When I was a kid, you had to try and piece it all together yourself - though that was part of the fun, digging around for missing issues that fill in gaps.

I also loved following my favourite writers and artists around from book to book and character to character, seeing how they apply their talents to different challenges and worlds.

I was lucky though, in that I started reading comics as a young kid in the early 90s and was able to get in on the action just as Frank Miller and John Byrne and Jim Lee and Todd McFarlane and Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison and all these guys were seriously elevating the medium to new heights.

 

[Haly]

...Crowz and Worst is better than both of those.

Never read those two, not my cup of tea.

If you want to get into a manga war, I'm game, but you're gonna have to your share of the work and post some pics.

 

[kswiston]

IS that a good thing?
How many times have Batman & Joker fought?
Hundreds? Thousands of times?

If I get sick of it, I can just stop buying Batman books. My point is that I probably won't have to wait 10-15 years to see the end of Snyder's Batman story, even though it is currently the most popular thing in comics.

 

[PsychBat!]

One thing that remains consistent (other than people being confused on where to start with American super hero books), is the dislike of the art. Pointing out that it's ugly and over-saturated. I don't understand.

 

[Kurita]

One thing that remains consistent (other than people being confused on where to start with American super hero books), is the dislike of the art. Pointing out that it's ugly and over-saturated. I don't understand.

Honestly, I have yet to see a super hero comic book making me go "Damn, that looks goooood". Won't say they're ugly though...

 

[Schweinehund]

The first one looks great, but it looks like something I'd enjoy on a concept art book. I think its just the photorealism.

Kingdom come is drawn by ross, probably my favorite comic book of all time, try giving that a go if you're not big into comics. The story is self contained and if DC were to end that is the ending I would choose for it.

 

[Deified Data]

As someone who spent at least a small portion of my life disliking both (used to love manga and hate western comics, then loved western and hated manga - now I like them both)...

As a manga fan I was leery of western comics because of all the convoluted, multi-generational stories and constant reboots. I didn't want to have to read a story from the late 80's to fully understand the context of a story being written in 2000's, for example. I didn't like how continuities kept restarting every time they got a new writing team - it came off as the writers disrespecting the history of the character to me. Of course now I know that they reboot books to avoid the first complaint I had, to keep them accessible to new audiences as time goes on. I also wasn't a fan of multi-property "events" that enveloped the entire Marvel or DC universe, forcing you to read books and characters you're normally not interested in to know what's going on in the books you do read. I still hate events, but I've learned to ignore them and just consult wikis when I'm confused.

Later, as I slowly grew disenchanted with manga, I started hating the formulaic shonen format of energetic boy heroes advancing in power levels until they could defeat their rivals. Looking at the B&N manga shelves everything would be either shonen or loli-looking stuffThat's really only a complaint with shonen and shojo, though, there's still tons of great seinen out there. Berserk, Claymore, Dorohedoro, Monster, etc.

 

[Cizard]

I actually think that long running manga are worse in this respect. Sure Spider-man has been running for 50 years, but you can usually start a comic at the beginning of a writers run, and ignore everything before and after, while getting a fairly complete story arc. Some manga stories go on for 500+ chapters.

That's kind of the problem though at least for me? Everything that's somewhat interesting gets turned back to status quo when a new writer gets to work on the series. I'd rather have to start from vol. 1 and maybe read quite a lot of chapters of a 50+ vol series than to have a series with multiple writers, reboots and all that. Long series like that are most definitely the exception though unlike some people here have been suggesting, there's thousands of manga if not more and most end before vol. 30 or even 20.

And with the kind of manga that go for 500+ chapters you can generally jump in at the start of an arc and a lot of people do this. It's something I'd never do myself but it's usually not impossible. It depends on the manga though. With something like Gintama, Detective Conan or Jojo's bizarre adventure or the long running food manga like Oishinbo you could easily do this. It's still possible with series like Hunter X Hunter and One Piece though which's story arcs are less self-contained.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question I've tried to get into other comics a bit more recently to expand my collection a bit more beyond just purely manga and I've found that I just really like manga a lot better for some of the reasons I already mentioned and I've not really found much western comics with art styles that appeal to me even if manga tends to be a bit more simplistic depending on the manga. I should look into indie comics a bit more though but there's so much manga I've still got to read that I've not really gotten to it.

Manga just look better on book shelves as well ;p

 

[Kurita]

Later, as I slowly grew disenchanted with manga, I started hating the formulaic shonen format of energetic boy heroes advancing in power levels until they could defeat their rivals. Looking at the B&N manga shelves everything would be either shonen or loli-looking stuffThat's really only a complaint with shonen and shojo, though, there's still tons of great seinen out there. Berserk, Claymore, Dorohedoro, Monster, etc.

I think that's a "problem" with american publishers, they don't often bring unique stuff because they're afraid it'll bomb, so they just play it safe with random shonen/shojo #24656456.

 

[Haly]

If I get sick of it, I can just stop buying Batman books. My point is that I probably won't have to wait 10-15 years to see the end of Snyder's Batman story, even though it is currently the most popular thing in comics.

As someone who has followed Fullmetal Alchemist for half a decade, this is a fair point. While Batman may be eternal, any single given Batman storyline will conclude in one year or two, whereas getting into a new shounen manga like, say, Attack on Titan is basically a 5-10 year commitment, assuming it doesn't even get more popular in the intervening time and gets extended further.

This is one of the biggest disconnects between manga readers and comic readers, in my experience. The former insists on a single comprehensive work. The latter is more willing to take things piecemeal, which, to a manga reader, sounds a like reading some chapters of a manga but not others, which seems bizarre.

(Obviously, you can avoid this problem just by reading completed works, of which there many. But you miss out on that community aspect that makes comics/mangas such an appealing hobby.)