Support NeoGAF

[MacNille]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Bill Maher starts by saying Palestinians can't claim the moral highground (How are Palestinians all rocket throwers?) - then he talks about how Israelis always win wars because they believe in Science. (30 billion in military aid from one country was not on Bill's radar, I guess)

It is 3 billion dollars a year. Not 30.

 

[shinobi602]

Just read this article about the Israeli police raiding the home of the Palestinian-American teenager they had brutally beaten up and arresting his family members without charges. The shit they get away with is ridiculous.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/tariq-abu-khdeir-home_n_5602289.html

This is infuriating...

 

[Buzzati]

It's actually 3 billion. Which at this point is just extra spending money for Israel.

30 billion in total. 3 billion+ (plus special arms deals) a year. I didn't say "30 billion a year".

 

[Zaph]

Was thinking the exact same thing. I'm certain I'm not the only one.

A few of us brought up that fact in the other thread, considering the incredible coincidence of the ground attack starting 3 hours after the crash.

We were called crazy for thinking Israel could organise a ground attack that fast (ignoring the fact troops were prep'ed on the border with tanks for over a week).

And it's working. Look how many headlines are dedicated to the 300 dead on MH17 compared to the increasingly larger amount in Gaza. Not saying that awful tragedy, and the political implications, don't deserve coverage, but it's completely dominating the ongoing Palestinian genocide.

 

[victreeb3l]

Absolutely sickening. When will the Israeli government ever face any consequences?

 

[MacNille]

30 billion in total. 3 billion+ (plus special arms deals) a year. I didn't say "30 billion a year".

I see. Wrong of me.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

It is 3 billion dollars a year. Not 30.

Is there a breakdown anywhere of how this aid is distributed? Is it just direct cash, is it equipment? I also wonder how much non-military aid the US gives Israel, and how much of that is funneled into Palestine.

 

[Frustrated_me]

I think Bill Maher puts a lot of this in context -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zzlXleHU4


Not that it justifies killing hundreds of innocents but It's not black and white as both sides would have us think.

I really enjoy Realtime with Bill Maher but my god this video was cringy to watch. Ugh.. Bill is usually a good host inviting a good balanced panel for discussions but this was such an unbalanced convo.

 

[Buzzati]

Is there a breakdown anywhere of how this aid is distributed? Is it just direct cash, is it equipment? I also wonder how much non-military aid the US gives Israel, and how much of that is funneled into Palestine.

http://www.haaretz.com/business/u-s-aid-to-israel-totals-233-7b-over-six-decades.premium-1.510592

The 233 billion figure constitutes loans and arms deals, i believe.

 

[shinobi602]

Absolutely sickening. When will the Israeli government ever face any consequences?

Stopping the constant US vetoing of resolutions against Israel would be a good start.

 

[BeesEight]

Does anyone think it's not a coincidence that things have escalated since the Malaysian airliner was shot down?

It's like they trying to get away with as much as possible while the world's attention is elsewhere.

I seriously doubt the Israeli government co-ordinates their military actions with Malaysian Airlines' tragedies.

 

[Chariot]

Absolutely sickening. When will the Israeli government ever face any consequences?

When we push. We need to push our governments to overthink their stands on Israel. Cry, whine, annoy your politicans, go on the street, complain in the net, every bit of pressure can help.

 

[Smellycat]

The Muslim World is not unified, they fight among themselves, political or sectarian.

The Arab world is not unified, Arab leaders are more concerned with self preservation of their own tribe and won't bat an eye for their neighbors.

Yep, this is the truth. None of this would be happening if they were united and raced to help each other.

 

[Zaph]

And just as I typed the message above about disproportional media coverage, I get this breaking alert from BBC (top one - but you can see the only other alerts they sent):

Not a single mention of civilian deaths, but for some reason 13 dead soldiers who invaded Gaza are worth mentioning.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Utterly sickening from Israel. I used to support them in a time gone by, can't anymore.

 

[Druz]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

 

[werks]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

Evacuate where?

 

[FiggyCal]

And just as I typed the message above about disproportional media coverage, I get this breaking alert from BBC (top one - but you can see the only other alerts they sent):



Not a single mention of civilian deaths, but for some reason 13 dead soldiers who invaded Gaza are worth mentioning.

The top story for both of my primary news sources: Huffingtonpost and NYTimes are both about the Ukraine airplane situation.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

Where the fuck are people from Gaza supposed to evacuate too?

lol

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

And what do those people do after Israel has indiscriminately bombed their homes and possessions from the face of the planet?

It's the same thing we're doing with drone air strikes. Every civilian that a drone strike kills will create ten people who will hate us for the rest of their lives.

 

[mavs]

Do ANY of these groups that you have mentioned have any sort of affiliation or alliance with any Western country? What would protesting against ISIS or Syria achieve when there is no real channel of contact between the Western countries and those groups?

If Syria was an ally of the West or if the ISIS was an ally of the West, you'd see similar protests. Israel IS an ally of the West.

The fact that you've placed Israel in the same company as ISIS and Syria is hilarious.

And civilian casualties of SUCH RIDICULOUS PROPORTIONS are not commonplace in conflicts where one side is supposed to be a well-equipped, democratic force fighting against an ill-prepared militia. Do you see these levels of civilian deaths in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Weren't we bombing weddings in Afghanistan? Wasn't there a literal massacre (soldiers shooting anything that moved) by American troops in Iraq? The best thing you can say about the West is that we toned it down, but didn't turn it off entirely.

 

[King_Moc]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

WTF? Gaza is a super dense city. There's nowhere to go. Except to maybe the beach...

At least do the most basic of research.

 

[Big-E]

I can't stand this human shield narrative. The Gaza Strip is fucking small. It is why it is called a fucking strip in the first place. Hamas being in the strip means that there is no way for civilians to get away from them. I can't believe this is allowed to be trumpeted by the media. The Gaza Strip ain't Canada.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

I'm sorry, but no.

Civilian deaths are NEVER acceptable. End of.

 

[werks]

Weren't we bombing weddings in Afghanistan? Wasn't there a literal massacre (soldiers shooting anything that moved) by American troops in Iraq? The best thing you can say about the West is that we toned it down, but didn't turn it off entirely.

And American soldiers have been tried and convicted by court martial. When was the last time an Israeli was tried for war crimes?

 

[Zaph]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

Cool. Let's blockade New York, deny all aid and assistance then tell millions of people bombs are coming and they need to get out of the way.

Oh and let's not forget the fact that journalists on the ground are saying the invasion was very confusing and there was no clear Israeli instructions of where to evacuate and where to go.

 

[MikeDown]

Leaving Gaza and West Bank to an UN peace keeping force and bigger walls. May be one day all the habitants of Israel/Palestine will be able to get along but for now I suggests total separation based on the 67 borders.

wish I had as much faith in the UN as you do,

 

[Jito]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

not worth it.

 

[kmax]

I think Bill Maher puts a lot of this in context -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zzlXleHU4


Not that it justifies killing hundreds of innocents but It's not black and white as both sides would have us think.

What a sad video. Where's the actual discourse? I used to have respect for Maher, but ever since Glenn Greenwald put him in his place, I find that he's lost touch with reality. Israel is actively stealing land today, so comparing it to theft that took place hundreds of years ago is a moot point.

 

[Dash27]

Friend of mine posted this, so I'll just leave it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8

Start at 4:10 for the question:

1. If tomorrow Israel laid down their weapons and said we will fight no more, what would happen?

2. If tomorrow all the Arab countries around Israel laid down their arms and said we will fight no more, what would happen?


It's definitely a pro-Israel video, but the conclusion begs the question... would the Palestinians and other Arab/Muslim states ever accept the nation of Israel? Would Israel ever just abandon the country? Because that's really the only questions. Rather than getting bogged down by who started what.

 

[mavs]

And American soldiers have been tried and convicted by court martial. When was the last time an Israeli was tried for war crimes?

Oh, I thought people were outraged at the deaths. Maybe you're right, if Israel would just court martial the person who fired the missile (which the USA hasn't done..actually) nobody would be concerned the next time they bomb 40 civilians.

 

[Chariot]

Weren't they asked to evacuate? I believe so. No one mentions Hamas killing a bunch of kids in a football field.

There is a fight going on and people in the way are going to die.

This is what Israel wants, yes.
Everyone leaving their home so they can level it to the ground and make it more of Israel. As far as I understood soul.

 

[Roi]

Yeah even in a small area you CAN evacuate, just go to another place. THIS is not an image of people who couldn't move, this is Hamas using a human shield!

 

[marc^o^]

Man that is getting out of control

My Facebook timeline is full of angry posts from both sides, the way it escaladates is no good.

 

[Summer Haze]

Not a single mention of civilian deaths, but for some reason 13 dead soldiers who invaded Gaza are worth mentioning.

This is infuriating. Such BLATANT bias. Ughhhh.

 

[Orenhy]

Just so people get some idea of whats going on besides kill counts;
IDF moved into Shejaiya neighborhood early in the night/morning as they continued their operations, they got into combat with Hamas fights, which turned into a very bloody combat - 13 IDF soldiers died in these fights, and as i understand right now, in an attempt to cover the IDF soldiers and prevent kidnappings of live/dead soldiers the IDF artillery and air force started heavily bombing the area, causing the high civilian casualties, strengthened also by the fact that hamas orders the civilians to stay put in combat zones that are called for evacuation.

 

[Vivalaraza]

Yeah even in a small area you CAN evacuate, just go to another place. THIS is not an image of people who couldn't move, this is Hamas using a human shield!

:lol

 

[Gintamen]

It's definitely a pro-Israel video, but the conclusion begs the question... would the Palestinians and other Arab/Muslim states ever accept the nation of Israel? Would Israel ever just abandon the country? Because that's really the only questions. Rather than getting bogged down by who started what.

After being opressed for multiple decades, could you just accept the "enemy" as a neighbour and let bygones be bygones? Healing takes time, the past can't just be erased from memory.

 

[Roi]

:lol

You can't go to a different street?

 

[Summer Haze]

Yeah even in a small area you CAN evacuate, just go to another place. THIS is not an image of people who couldn't move, this is Hamas using a human shield!

Is this sarcasm? If not, do you really think it's as simple as just going "to another place"?

You can't go to a different street?

Omg....

 

[Chariot]

You can't go to a different street?

OH MY. You're a genius! Maybe you go there and help to coordinate traffic.

 

[Dash27]

I think Bill Maher puts a lot of this in context -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zzlXleHU4


Not that it justifies killing hundreds of innocents but It's not black and white as both sides would have us think.

I typically dont agree with Maher but I really dont see another way to look at this. I'm surprised that he got a lot of applause for this though. HAMAS is shit, and they were elected. They are the real tragedy to their own people in this situation. The surrounding nations use the palestinians as propaganda, Israel gives all it's citizens equal rights. This is not to say Israel is innocent but it is to say there's no comparison.

 

[Gintamen]

You can't go to a different street?

Because the other street won't be attacked? Oo Your post reeks of ignorance.

 

[zeroOman]

Yeah even in a small area you CAN evacuate, just go to another place. THIS is not an image of people who couldn't move, this is Hamas using a human shield!

link?

 

[Vivalaraza]

You can't go to a different street?

I suppose you could.

The IDF are using fletchette rounds though, nails bombs basically - might not be enough.

Then again they're just "in the way" right?

 

[Zaph]

I typically dont agree with Maher but I really dont see another way to look at this. I'm surprised that he got a lot of applause for this though. HAMAS is shit, and they were elected. They are the real tragedy to their own people in this situation. The surrounding nations use the palestinians as propaganda, Israel gives all it's citizens equal rights. This is not to say Israel is innocent but it is to say there's no comparison.

It just keeps getting better. Out of curiosity, do you think apartheid South Africa had equal rights too?

 

[Dash27]

After being opressed for multiple decades, could you just accept the "enemy" as a neighbour and let bygones be bygones? Healing takes time, the past can't just be erased from memory.

Doesnt seem like healing. It's been war since literally day 1 of Israels existence.

 

[Chariot]

I just realized that his post was essentially "Let them eat cake". smh.

 

[zeroOman]

Israel using flechette shells in Gaza

Six flechette shells were fired towards the village of Khuzaa, east of Khan Younis, on 17 July, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Nahla Khalil Najjar, 37, suffered injuries to her chest, it said. PCHR provided a picture of flechettes taken by a fieldworker last week.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) did not deny using the shells in the conflict. "As a rule, the IDF only employs weapons that have been determined lawful under international law, and in a manner which fully conforms with the laws of armed conflict," a spokesperson said in response to a request for specific comment on the deployment of flechettes.

B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organisation, describes a flechette shell as "an anti-personnel weapon that is generally fired from a tank. The shell explodes in the air and releases thousands of metal darts 37.5mm in length, which disperse in a conical arch 300 metres long and about 90 metres wide".

more is here
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza?CMP=twt_gu

 

[RangerX]

The whole of the Israeli government needs to be tried for war crimes. Seriously this is absolutely fucking sickening. How can anyone defend this massacre. Hamas coming to power is a result of these atrocities by Israel. End the blockade, give the palestinians their country back and restore to them their most basic human rights and maybe Israel might earn some respect back from the international community.