-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
If you're a politician, a whole bunch of money.
2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]
- Thread starter L0st Id3ntity
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If you're a politician, a whole bunch of money.
There is a growing movement to do this in the U.S., but it's not growing fast enough. Not being unconditionally pro-Israel is an unpopular stance for a politician in office.
The US is sitting at the table with Iran over nuclear talks. The oil boom in the US might, oddly, be the best shot at peace in the middle east.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
To be fair to the poor Israeli government - if I stole land, oppressed a people and turned their home into an open air prison, I'd be pretty tired of dealing with them too. I mean, can't they just die off quietly?
shinobi602
Member
Those actions were the consequences and result of ages of raids, jailing Palestinians, bulldozing homes (many of which had proof of their ownership of said land), constant blockading of basic life necessities (water, power, resources for building, etc) which in turn were a result of actions Palestinians carried out against Israel which in turn were a result of something the Israelis did, and so on.
It's a vicious cycle that will never end.
Indeed. Notice anything funny about the headline here? http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/19/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FI04420140719
Most important comes first, remember.
Common misconception started by the IDF. It was the response to the murders that started everything. There was absolutely no reason to treat it as anything other than a murder investigation and even if you don't want to do that then you could say it started with the murder of the two Palestinian teens.
I don't know what to say, but all I can say this is disgusting. What makes it worse is that this month is Ramadan, which is a holy month where Muslims are fasting from sunrise to sunset. I honestly don't want to imagine what these people are going through cause it probably is downright terrible. At least the Israelis have an army to protect them, but these Palestinians are just being completely wiped out.
Sometimes I get the feeling that is what they want...
Well, considering that Israel would also love to get rid of all those non-Jew civilians living on "their" lands the "self-defense" argument is far from airtight.
Exactly. They just need to keep making their lives as terrible as possible until they flee to somewhere else or die trying to fight the IDF. Eventually, they'll have their land.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Should Native Americans start firing rockets from reservations since we stole their land and created designated zones for them to live in?
How do you even "steal" land anyway? The real question is why can't both sides sit down at the table and agree to co-exist? This conflict is so dumb to me, Israel is a bully and Hamas is a petulant child. Neither one looks good, I just wish they could get along so these atrocities would stop.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
One side in this conflict is a fully functioning democratic government. With laws, rules, and infrastructure.
The other, is not.
The onus is on the government that has millions of dollars funneled into it to act like fucking human beings and find other ways to resolve this violence instead of dishing out violence in kind. It's lowering itself to the level of terrorists and murderers.
They've all grown up next to a country full of Jews that want every single Palestinian dead so that they can steal their land. What were you expecting?
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
What if the US declared war with Russia over the killing of two US citizens, with Russia vehemently denying having any involvement in the murders.
It sounds ridiculous, but that's essentially what has happened.
This just shows how little you know about the conditions of the territories. Stop filling up this thread with your ignorant bullshit and go read a book. Nobody should waste their time appeasing you by explaining word for word why the Palestinian territories are different from the current indian reservations. Good lord - a 3rd grader could figure this out.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Oh cool. Corpses of children just showed up on one of the twitter feeds.
That's what I wanted to see today.
Oh and one with half a kid's face blown off with the father holding the body.
Closing that tab now. Jesus fucking christ.
#gazaunderattack for the morbidly curious.
That's what I wanted to see today.
Oh and one with half a kid's face blown off with the father holding the body.
Closing that tab now. Jesus fucking christ.
#gazaunderattack for the morbidly curious.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
That's one point of view, but I don't think it's accurate. Israel kills and captures Palestinian civilians on the regular, and is in a constant state of displacing them and taking their land. I don't think you can reasonably argue Palestine is the aggressor in this conflict.
badcrumble
Member
Vastly unequal power means they're not equally at fault for the situation, FYI.
deathkiller
Member
Leaving Gaza and West Bank to an UN peace keeping force and bigger walls. May be one day all the habitants of Israel/Palestine will be able to get along but for now I suggests total separation based on the 67 borders.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Because the perpetuation is good for Isreal. They keep the status quo and it lets them continue the settlements, deny basic human rights and anytime a peace deal is even sniffed they can throw their hands up and say "We will not negotiate with Hamas and cannot make a deal." They let the situation boil over once every decade and "trim the tall grass" to keep Hamas militarized and keep the status quo.
Look at the situtation in the West Bank, they capitulated and get military checkpoints, more settlements, mass arrests, civilian deaths, destruction of property etc etc. In Gaza there is occasional armed resistance and they get military checkpoints, mass arrests, more settlements, civilian death (on a larger scale), destruction of property etc etc.. Isreal has no reason to change the status quo. There is no outside pressure, and they can continue to marginalize the Palestinian people and continue the settlements.
The sad part is that AIPAC has a tonne of influence and even more money. It is a damn shame how a FORIEGN NATION has so much control over the US.
If we were assassinating, imprisoning, and laying siege to millions of people, I'm pretty sure they would fight back.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
You're really going to make the claim that every Jew in Israel wants a genocide to happen? Come on now, this is getting rediculous. We know for a fact that Hamas doesn't believe Israel has a right to exist, don't act like the Jews haven't grown up surrounded by countries and organizations that want them dead.
Spacecowboy77
Member
I think Bill Maher puts a lot of this in context -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zzlXleHU4
Not that it justifies killing hundreds of innocents but It's not black and white as both sides would have us think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zzlXleHU4
Not that it justifies killing hundreds of innocents but It's not black and white as both sides would have us think.
You're lightening Israel responsibility in this conflict pointing out the Hamas and its rockets. Giving the feeling that Palestinians are as responsible as Israelis on this, which is not the case.
Israel government is fully responsible of this massacre and the situation we know today.
Do not forget, they are illegally colonizing these lands for more than 40 years now.
shinobi602
Member
Summer Haze
Banned
I think you need to take a look at some of the links to images and videos in this thread. Where are all the Israeli deaths that they are so sick and tired of? All I see are dead Palestinian children and civilians on an unprecedented scale. Israeli deaths do not happen anywhere near frequently enough to warrant their actions. I'm having a hard time believing they're sick and tired of their civilians dying, when 28 of them have died in the last 10 years from rocket attacks, while killing almost 3/4 of that number this morning alone.
And NO, I did NOT try and twist your words. That's how you are interpreting my comment, but I can assure you it was not my intention, and frankly, I have no idea how you are accusing me of doing so. ALL I did was ask what Israel were sick and tired of, not once did I say anything that implied I thought you don't care about civilian life. I saw you try and give reasoning for why Israel is doing what they're doing, but that reasoning falls apart when you compare the death toll of the two sides, which is why I asked what exactly they are sick and tired of.
Like I said, I think you need to look at some of these links and really see who is sick and tired of what. It's incredibly one-sided.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
As for the "stealing land" thing, Israel will go in, bulldoze Palestinian homes and businesses, and uproot their orchards. They will displace the residents, and force them to leave, and then build Israeli hones on that land.
Native Americans have taken up arms against the US government in the past. But currently, they have freedom of movement, something that Palestinians don't.
Just want to pop in and note that the user was not banned for specific opinions but for coming into the thread with a drive-by generalization, and then painting himself as a victim when he got called out on it. That sort of thing is unproductive and contributes nothing to the thread.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Bill Maher starts by saying Palestinians can't claim the moral highground (How are Palestinians all rocket throwers?) - then he talks about how Israelis always win wars because they believe in Science. (30 billion in military aid from one country was not on Bill's radar, I guess)
Yes, a lot of people think that. Even Israeli newspapers have made the connection.
More importantly, naive americans are citizens. Let me know when Israel is going to let palestinians that live in Israel become citizens.
badcrumble
Member
Maher's a strong adherent of the idiotic clash-of-civilizations theory.
shinobi602
Member
Was thinking the exact same thing. I'm certain I'm not the only one.
Red Blaster
Member
bill maher is the last person you should cite for anything related to israel and palestine
Lol, I think the Native Americans can probably answer that one.
28 is the number from rocket attacks only. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
BrokenEchelon
Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...inian_casualties_in_Operation_Protective_Edge
Those numbers are incredible.
So how is the IDF any different from the terrorist organization that they're claiming to be fighting? Both terrorize civilians as a means to achieve their goals(Hamas indiscriminately launches rockets, the IDF indiscriminately bombs homes). The only difference is that the IDF racks up a lot more deaths. The IDF sure does sound like a terrorist organization to me.
dripdripsplash
Member
Oh now we know who's at fault for all the dead civilians! Themselves of course!
Most trash video I've seen in a long time.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
J Street is less then ten years old at this point. There used to not be any powerful collective Jewish voice in the US that wasn't unconditionally supportive of Israel, but things are getting better on that front. Progress is being made, it's just slow.
Too much of American politics runs on lobbying, but it's the system we have. Having new, powerful voices is really a great thing, and it could push a change in US policy on this. I believe that a change in US policy is the next best hope of a decent resolution to this conflict. Write your senators and congresspeople!
Summer Haze
Banned
Ok, thanks. I'll edit my comment.
Just read this article about the Israeli police raiding the home of the Palestinian-American teenager they had brutally beaten up and arresting his family members without charges. The shit they get away with is ridiculous.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/tariq-abu-khdeir-home_n_5602289.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/tariq-abu-khdeir-home_n_5602289.html
gutter_trash
Banned
they did fight back, numerous times, the Western Expansion became too much and the Federal Government crushed and displaced Natives the most severely during this period.
Natives have now been reduced to reservations that are not originally their land (they were displaced from fertile lands and dumped into infertile dust bowls).
The Muslim World is not unified, they fight among themselves, political or sectarian.
The Arab world is not unified, Arab leaders are more concerned with self preservation of their own tribe and won't bat an eye for their neighbors.
It's actually 3 billion. Which at this point is just extra spending money for Israel.
And to add to the American Indian thing. Most Indians eventually signed treaties with the government that were pretty much torn up and pissed on before the ink dried. With their arms surrendered, they were moved to the reservations.
Spacecowboy77
Member
I agree it's disgusting but how do you suggest breaking this cycle?
It's obvious to me that both sides are warmongering assholes that will continue killing each other till the end of time. Makes me sick.
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