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[GOGOheadray]

I don't see hoow FTP will kill of consoles. FTP games like LOL; WOT etc. can run on PC's that are low spec. and in spite what a ajority of PC gamers want to believe those pre-built PC's are weaker than the new gen consoles; so console gamers will still need to play on consoles in order to get that next-gen gaming experience.

 

[LightofRohan]

Can we stop with the "every game is 5 dollars!". It is rarely new games and yes games drop in price over time. PC can get them a lot cheaper, but I keep seeing it compared to console games being $60. Also, a lot of the games that were on the steam sale this summer were free on ps+ earlier.

Steam sales are awesome, they arent the end all of everything though. And those older games have to be cheap to compete with torrents.

 

[BigDug13]

Things are pretty even this first year for the most part power-wise (not drastically noticeable differences except in high end PC specs), but it's going to be interesting in another year when mediocre PC's completely shit all over the console specs for the remaining 3+ years of the generation.

 

[Orayn]

I don't see hoow FTP will kill of consoles. FTP games like LOL; WOT etc. can run on PC's that are low spec. and in spite what a ajority of PC gamers want to believe those pre-built PC's are weaker than the new gen consoles; so console gamers will still need to play on consoles in order to get that next-gen gaming experience.

I think that's exactly Romero's point, though. One of the things that's really boosted PC gaming's revenue in recent years is the fact that a lot of F2P games can run on an old laptop with integrated graphics, which makes the potential market enormous.

 

[blankempathy]

If you think baking people alive is a joke Keep laughing

Its amazing how literal people take the master race thing. The joke specifically has nothing to even do with the nazis but merey the phase "master race" which was coined up by them. The phase and idea behind a "master race" is so ludicrous and stupid in the first place that I can't believe people get so offended by it.

 

[BigDug13]

Can we stop with the "every game is 5 dollars!". It is rarely new games and yes games drop in price over time. PC can get them a lot cheaper, but I keep seeing it compared to console games being $60. Also, a lot of the games that were on the steam sale this summer were free on ps+ earlier.

Steam sales are awesome, they arent the end all of everything though. And those older games have to be cheap to compete with torrents.

If you buy 1 game a month and the PC can get it to you for let's say only $10 cheaper than console even though the savings are usually more. Let's say every game is only $10 cheaper on PC and you buy 1 game a month. That's $120 savings per year. Add the lack of paid multiplayer and you're saving over $160 per year. In 3 years, you've saved $480.

Now the more realistic savings on PC games if you wait for sales is $20 or more which now becomes >$280 savings per year with the free multiplayer or $840 over 3 years if you buy 12 games a year.

Now you can muddy the waters by using things like Redbox or Gamefly to play your console games. But from a pure "buying retail games" perspective, there are definite savings with PC. If you also consider the fact that most homes need a PC but no homes need a console, so the PC purchase is already something a household is going to make, beefing it up a bit with some graphics hardware doesn't seem as much of a cost when you were already going to have to buy a PC already.

(this is the part that I think Steam Boxes won't break in. People have PC's because they need them. They game on PC because a PC would be something they already have anyway. Nobody NEEDS a Steam Box like they need a regular ass PC in their home.)

I still love my consoles and console gaming, but I realize that my PC is the only device for gaming that I absolutely need to have for other stuff.

 

[Krejlooc]

Can we stop with the "every game is 5 dollars!". It is rarely new games and yes games drop in price over time. PC can get them a lot cheaper, but I keep seeing it compared to console games being $60. Also, a lot of the games that were on the steam sale this summer were free on ps+ earlier.

Steam sales are awesome, they arent the end all of everything though. And those older games have to be cheap to compete with torrents.

You can, extremely frequently, get games for much cheaper than full price with PC gaming. Example: I have Alien Isolation pre-ordered for my PC. I paid $25.

It's not a myth, nor is it hyperbole.

EDIT: Your problem seems to be that you think Steam Sales are the only source of cheap games. You desperately need to install Enhanced Steam to understand just how cheap these games can be. In addition to listing the currently best going price around anywhere, it'll also list a historical low, along with the date, to let you know if it was once cheaper and if you should keep waiting.

 

[pixlexic]

Can we stop with the "every game is 5 dollars!". It is rarely new games and yes games drop in price over time. PC can get them a lot cheaper, but I keep seeing it compared to console games being $60. Also, a lot of the games that were on the steam sale this summer were free on ps+ earlier.

Steam sales are awesome, they arent the end all of everything though. And those older games have to be cheap to compete with torrents.

not even close to the same thing. PC game usually start out cheaper and go down in month.

There is still launch games on the ps4 and xbone that are full price to this day.

 

[Krejlooc]

(this is the part that I think Steam Boxes won't break in. People have PC's because they need them. They game on PC because a PC would be something they already have anyway. Nobody NEEDS a Steam Box like they need a regular ass PC in their home.)

How in the world do people still not get this: Any PC that runs steam is a Steam Machine (not steam box). That's the whole point of the initiative.

That home built PC you're running windows 8 with using an xbox 360 controller that has steam installed? That's a steam machine.

That pre-built alienware box you bought running SteamOS with a Steam controller that has steam installed? That's also a steam machine.

That mac you have running OSX using a keyboard and mouse that has steam installed? That too is a steam machine.

The concept literally cannot "not take off" because Steam itself has already taken off. It's not "Steam Machines vs PCs." it's an entire, cross-platform economy. the Steam Machine initiative isn't just "let's sell boxes with steam installed." It's multifaceted and aimed to bring steam to people in as many ways as possible. The physical, pre-built steam machine portion of the initiative is aimed at those people who have interest in PC gaming, but confess they just want to "plug and play" like a console. But that doesn't mean it's separate from the rest of steam.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I feel like everyone is missing the craziest part of this post lol.

Also, a lot of the games that were on the steam sale this summer were free on ps+ earlier.

"A lot" implies a large amount... There were more games in the first 2 or 3 days of the sale (through the daily, flash, and community votes) then the entire number of games we get in a year on PS+

I mean jeez, I love PS+ so much, but you're not getting "a lot" of the games that were on any steam sale.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

I hate how the devs always talk about LoL and WoT as f2p done right.

Also, AAA has killed a hundred studios.

I think AAA has killed hundreds of games and the way game design is in today's industry.

Once COD4 MW came out in 2007, AAA gaming basically died.

 

[GOGOheadray]

not even close to the same thing. PC game usually start out cheaper and go down in month.

There is still launch games on the ps4 and xbone that are full price to this day.

There are plenty of places ( craigslist, amazon, ebay, etc.) with people whom sale games for far less; heck a third of the games I beat last year I beat for free? how you ask? I was able to share games with my friend who owned the same console I had. On PC this would be impoosible not only because of the fact that it would be a digital game but also because of the fact that their is a good chance my walmart HP laptop wouldn't run new games at a good speed. The assumption that every console gamer is buying games at full price is false.

 

[Some Nobody]

There are plenty of places ( craigslist, amazon, ebay, etc.) with people whom sale games for far less; heck a third of the games I beat last year I beat for free? how you ask? I was able to share games with my friend who owned the same console I had. On PC this would be impoosible not only because of the fact that it would be a digital game but also because of the fact that their is a good chance my walmart HP laptop wouldn't run new games at a good speed. The assumption that every console gamer is buying games at full price is false.

It doesn't "count", though.

 

[BigDug13]

How in the world do people still not get this: Any PC that runs steam is a Steam Machine (not steam box). That's the whole point of the initiative.

That home built PC you're running windows 8 with using an xbox 360 controller that has steam installed? That's a steam machine.

That pre-built alienware box you bought running SteamOS with a Steam controller that has steam installed? That's also a steam machine.

That mac you have running OSX using a keyboard and mouse that has steam installed? That too is a steam machine.

The concept literally cannot "not take off" because Steam itself has already taken off. It's not "Steam Machines vs PCs." it's an entire, cross-platform economy. the Steam Machine initiative isn't just "let's sell boxes with steam installed." It's multifaceted and aimed to bring steam to people in as many ways as possible. The physical, pre-built steam machine portion of the initiative is aimed at those people who have interest in PC gaming, but confess they just want to "plug and play" like a console. But that doesn't mean it's separate from the rest of steam.

But Valve's intent with this entire product is to break away from Windows. In order to break away from Windows, you have to pretty much give consumers a product that can replace their Windows machine.

Yes you can buy a Steam machine with Windows loaded, but ultimately that's not the direction Valve wants to go. They want people to make the switch away from Windows because Valve does not want to be at the mercy of Microsoft. And I don't blame them, but it's a tough sell since Windows machines are so much more useful in everyday life. There's nothing in it for Valve to have this initiative of partnering with hardware makers for a special gaming box if everyone still gets Windows on it. Their goal is to have you buy one with SteamOS.

 

[Freshmaker]

I feel like everyone is missing the craziest part of this post lol.



"A lot" implies a large amount... There were more games in the first 2 or 3 days of the sale (through the daily, flash, and community votes) then the entire number of games we get in a year on PS+

I mean jeez, I love PS+ so much, but you're not getting "a lot" of the games that were on any steam sale.

To be fair, not getting tons of games nobody plays after buying isn't saying much. I don't even play the PS+ stuff on PS4.

Don't Starve? Whoo.

But then I'll hop on Steam and see games for 5 cents that I never wanted in the first place. Amazing deals.

 

[pixlexic]

There are plenty of places ( craigslist, amazon, ebay, etc.) with people whom sale games for far less; heck a third of the games I beat last year I beat for free? how you ask? I was able to share games with my friend who owned the same console I had. On PC this would be impoosible not only because of the fact that it would be a digital game but also because of the fact that their is a good chance my walmart HP laptop wouldn't run new games at a good speed. The assumption that every console gamer is buying games at full price is false.

There is no assumption.

You can find better deals on launch day for PC games if you want to go through such hoops as well.

 

[Krejlooc]

But Valve's intent with this entire product is to break away from Windows.

They said the exact opposite at Steam Dev Days. No it's not, and your entire assumption is predicated on this incorrect realization.

Valve's intent with this initiative is to expand the reach of Steam. Period.

 

[BigDug13]

There are plenty of places ( craigslist, amazon, ebay, etc.) with people whom sale games for far less; heck a third of the games I beat last year I beat for free? how you ask? I was able to share games with my friend who owned the same console I had. On PC this would be impoosible not only because of the fact that it would be a digital game but also because of the fact that their is a good chance my walmart HP laptop wouldn't run new games at a good speed. The assumption that every console gamer is buying games at full price is false.

The discussion is about buying retail console vs PC. Yeah you can trade games with your friend who happens to own the same console as you and happens to buy different games than you. But that's such a specific and not wide-spread phenomenon, I'm not sure why that has relevance to the overall discussion. I mean technically there are ways for your friend to download the same game as you on PC as well if we want to get into "there are other non-retail ways to do this for cheaper" discussions. And being able to share games with your friend so that he never has to buy the game is exactly what console makers want to kill and why Microsoft had made their attempt early last year.

 

[ZenaxPure]

To be fair, not getting tons of games nobody plays after buying isn't saying much. I don't even play the PS+ stuff on PS4.

Don't Starve? Whoo.

But then I'll hop on Steam and see games for 5 cents that I never wanted in the first place. Amazing deals.

Not everyone just buys random shit on steam sales that they have no intention of playing. I'm not going to deny there are some people that do (I mean I know a guy personally), but it's not like it's some vast majority or something, or else everyone would have steam libraries that are like 500+ games, which they don't.

 

[GOGOheadray]

There is no assumption.

You can find better deals on launch day for PC games if you want to go through such hoops as well.

Those aren't "hoops" though. They are extremely valid and tried and tested ways that console gamers have dealt and skirted past the full price fallacy that PC gamers like to throw out at a moments notice. Why do you think developers for consoles have such hard on for DRM?; which culminated in the XO? They know that game sharing in the console community is rampant and has been for quite some time. You can't discount that and still claim that steam is cheaper using only gamestop and walm-mart prices to justify your position.

 

[BigDug13]

They said the exact opposite at Steam Dev Days. No it's not, and your entire assumption is predicated on this incorrect realization.

Valve's intent with this initiative is to expand the reach of Steam. Period.

Maybe they've changed their mind since 2012:

http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
"Mr Newell, who worked for Microsoft for 13 years on Windows, said his company had embraced the open-source software Linux as a "hedging strategy" designed to offset some of the damage Windows 8 was likely to do.

"We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well," said Mr Newell.

"Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space.""

 

[Dragon]

Consoles have zero upsides compared to PC's. End of story.

Sure they do. They're cheaper to buy, the retail market allows selling of physical games (which somehow NEVER gets factored in when talking about PC game sales), the barrier to entry is lower, they have games that the PC doesn't get just to name a few.

I own two gaming PCs and a PS4 and I love them both. The type of binary thought in this thread kinda reminds me of the American political system, which is a fucking joke of epic proportions.

They said the exact opposite at Steam Dev Days. No it's not, and your entire assumption is predicated on this incorrect realization.

Valve's intent with this initiative is to expand the reach of Steam. Period.

Do you have a link to a quotation? It's not exactly a rare assumption, why would a company predicate almost all of their business on a platform essentially owned by another company? It makes a lot of sense to use Linux, and frankly I hope it continues. The less people have to deal with an incompetent company like Microsoft, the better.

 

[Krejlooc]

Maybe they've changed their mind since 2012:

http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
"Mr Newell, who worked for Microsoft for 13 years on Windows, said his company had embraced the open-source software Linux as a "hedging strategy" designed to offset some of the damage Windows 8 was likely to do.

"We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well," said Mr Newell.

"Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space.""

Yeah, that isn't saying what you think it's saying. Valve can still think Windows 8 is a catastrophe and want to expand to Linux without saying "we want to completely abandon windows."

You should probably watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caH_JLC_8fY&index=2&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm

Also one of your quotes is a paraphrase that assumes more than he actually said.

 

[GOGOheadray]

The discussion is about buying retail console vs PC. Yeah you can trade games with your friend who happens to own the same console as you and happens to buy different games than you. But that's such a specific and not wide-spread phenomenon, I'm not sure why that has relevance to the overall discussion. I mean technically there are ways for your friend to download the same game as you on PC as well if we want to get into "there are other non-retail ways to do this for cheaper" discussions. And being able to share games with your friend so that he never has to buy the game is exactly what console makers want to kill and why Microsoft had made their attempt early last year.

I was addressing the quote that came up about steam sales so this does address that argument. Also you contradicted yourself in your comment. You say that trading games is not a wide-spread phenomenon but at the end say that game sharing is what console makers want to kill off. Well then if it is not wide-spread why would console makers go to such a length as to try and kill it off? And of course you missed the main part of my argument as to why game sharing wouldn't work on PC's all that well. PC's run a wide gambit of configurations etc, my HP laptop will likely not run the same games at a solid framerate as a high-end gaming computer if it can run it at all ( rome total war 2 is a prime example).

 

[Armaros]

Those aren't "hoops" though. They are extremely valid and tried and tested ways that console gamers have dealt and skirted past the full price fallacy that PC gamers like to throw out at a moments notice. Why do you think developers for consoles have such hard on for DRM?; which culminated in the XO? They know that game sharing in the console community is rampant and has been for quite some time. You can't discount that and still claim that steam is cheaper using only gamestop and walm-mart prices to justify your position.

And console gamers constantly only compare it to steam and say "ah ha! If I do X, Y and Z it is as cheap as steam." as if steam is the entire digital market for PC games.

There are many many places that sell games (with steam keys) for cheaper then steam. And thus are even cheaper then the equivalent console game. And many of these deals are available on launch or even pre-orders.

 

[BigDug13]

I was addressing the quote that came up about steam sales so this does address that argument. Also you contradicted yourself in your comment. You say that trading games is not a wide-spread phenomenon but at the end say that game sharing is what console makers want to kill off. Well then if it is not wide-spread why would console makers go to such a length as to try and kill it off? And of course you missed the main part of my argument as to why game sharing wouldn't work on PC's all that well. PC's run a wide gambit of configurations etc, my HP laptop will likely not run the same games at a solid framerate as a high-end gaming computer if it can run it at all ( rome total war 2 is a prime example).

Well the "not-widespread" I was referring to is 33% of your games being gotten from your friend.

 

[bishoptl]

Anti-gay pejoratives will get you fucked up by the Ghetto-style DJs.

 

[GOGOheadray]

And console gamers constantly only compare it to steam and say "ah ha! If I do X, Y and Z it is as cheap as steam." as if steam is the entire digital market for PC games.

There are many many places that sell games (with steam keys) for cheaper then steam. And thus are even cheaper then the equivalent console game. And many of these deals are available on launch or even pre-orders.

I rarely see console gamers bring up steam sales; it's usually PC gamers who do so while discounting the fact that a large number of console games are sold second hand for cheaper than what they are at launch.

 

[Armaros]

I rarely see console gamers bring up steam sales; it's usually PC gamers who do so while discounting the fact that a large number of console games are sold second hand for cheaper than what they are at launch.

PC deals on day one are just as cheap launch used games and you get it brand new.

And please, Console gamers are always comparing things to steam sales when its regarding price wars between PC and consoles. Lets not be disingenuous.

 

[GOGOheadray]

Well the "not-widespread" I was referring to is 33% of your games being gotten from your friend.

33% for me is widespread specially considering that I paid nothing for them. the other two-thirds of my games came from either ebay, craigslist, or amazon all of which sell games at a much cheaper price than what retail is offering.

 

[BigDug13]

I rarely see console gamers bring up steam sales; it's usually PC gamers who do so while discounting the fact that a large number of console games are sold second hand for cheaper than what they are at launch.

You act like console gamers and PC gamers are 100% two separate groups.

33% for me is widespread specially considering that I paid nothing for them. the other two-thirds of my games came from either ebay, craigslist, or amazon all of which sell games at a much cheaper price than what retail is offering.

So really you're not supporting developers at all? At least developers get some money from a Steam sale. You're basically a loss for the console maker on hardware purchase and a no-net-gain to all developers, publishers, first parties, etc. Even a Redbox user or Gamefly subscriber is helping to put at least some money into dev pockets.

 

[Opiate]

We also need to define what we mean by "PC." A lot of people seem to take it to just mean Windows platforms, which certainly isn't what most PC Gamers I know mean.

For instance, if I imagine a future 10 years from now where Android phones have crushed the traditional Windows PC space because these phones can be docked in some cradle which then operates as a desktop interface (and which, at that point, will be considerably more powerful than the PC I'm typing on now), then sure, whatever, that's fine. I'm tied to the concept of open source platforms, not to Windows specifically.

Saying that a decline of Windows would be equivalent to the decline in PC gaming is like saying that the decline of Xbox or Playstation must mean a decline in console gaming; well, it may mean that, but if Samsung gets in to the console business and bullies Sony out because the Samsung SuperBox sells 400m units, then that's not a decline in consoles in any meaningful way, it's just a changing of the guard (and would represent a significant expansion in console popularity, actually).

 

[Armaros]

So really you're not supporting developers at all?

"$5 games hurt developers" -downplaying steam-like sales

'only buys second hand so its cheaper' -when trying to match PC game deals.

 

[GOGOheadray]

PC deals on day one are just as cheap launch used games and you get it brand new.

And please, Console gamers are always comparing things to steam sales when its regarding price wars between PC and consoles. Lets not be disingenuous.

That would usually require per-ordering the game which if you are on PC is a crap shoot; specially if you are on the lower end of the PC power scale (which most are). I don't need to bring up rome total war 2 or sim city, etc. as to the dangers of doing that. Also I never said console gamers don't compare to steam but rather that PC gamers are usually the ones to bring it up first while discounting all the ways to get console games outside of retail stores.

 

[yuraya]

Maybe they've changed their mind since 2012:

http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
"Mr Newell, who worked for Microsoft for 13 years on Windows, said his company had embraced the open-source software Linux as a "hedging strategy" designed to offset some of the damage Windows 8 was likely to do.

"We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well," said Mr Newell.

"Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space.""

Gabe along with many others assumed MS was going to take the Windows 8 marketplace and create their own "Steam" or their own "Origin." and making things exclusive to windows 8. They didn't do that at all. In fact the only big game locked behind the win8 marketplace today is Project Spark. Even Halo Spartan Assault found its way to steam and xbox. So no. Gabe said those things assuming MS was getting ready to pull some shit like GFWL. But they didn't..they instead focused predominantly on mobile/tablets. That article is meaningless now. Unless of course MS decides to in fact do something crazy in the future but I strongly doubt it. Because the leadership in the company today is entirely different from 2012. Its not the same company at all.

 

[Krejlooc]

Do you have a link to a quotation? It's not exactly a rare assumption, why would a company predicate almost all of their business on a platform essentially owned by another company? It makes a lot of sense to use Linux, and frankly I hope it continues. The less people have to deal with an incompetent company like Microsoft, the better.

Check out the Steam Dev Days videos on Linux Development and moving to OpenGL. The repeated refrain from Valve is that you don't have to choose between linux and windows, you can choose both. I believe it was Ryan Gordon who made the point that abandoning windows means abandoning 95% of their current market, especially when China overwhelmingly runs Windows XP. The goal isn't to get people to stop supporting windows and start supporting Linux, it's to get people to support steam, no matter where it is. It's a benefit for all developers.

Valve's vision isn't "let's abandon the platform where we make all our money and start over," it's "let's get our games running on everything." Their talk about building towards the Steam runtime library rather than any OS proprietary libraries really drives the point home, the very benefit they proclaim is that by doing that, your game will run on anything.

EDIT: Some videos:

Beginning Linux development: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd8ie5R4CVE&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm&index=6

Moving to openGL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45O7WTc6k2Y&index=9&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm

United we win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cjfpIpy6ZM&index=11&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm

Debugging with linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmAknUbpB0&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm&index=12

Optimizing Linux games for AMD using GPU Perf Studios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biUffE9BB0I&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm&index=13

SDL 2.0 overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeMPCSqQ-34&list=PLckFgM6dUP2hc4iy-IdKFtqR9TeZWMPjm&index=23

SDL 2.0 in particular is a huge backbone of Valve's cross-platform development strategy. To show it off, they showed a single codebase running on Windows, Mac, Linux, and iOS, all at once, without a single change being made.

a specific sentiment from Ryan Gordon about "linux:" We shouldn't think of development like "developing with linux" or "developing for windows" or "developing for playstation." Instead, think of your development as "developing exclusively for windows" and "developing not-exclusively for windows" where the latter option is also inclusive of windows.

That was the whole point of Dev Days (the dev portion, at least).

 

[GOGOheadray]

"$5 games hurt developers" -downplaying steam-like sales

'only buys second hand so its cheaper' -when trying to match PC game deals.

Never once did I say that 5 dollar games hurt developers; so don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Armaros]

That would usually require per-ordering the game which if you are on PC is a crap shoot; specially if you are on the lower end of the PC power scale (which most are). I don't need to bring up rome total war 2 or sim city, etc. as to the dangers of doing that. Also I never said console gamers don't compare to steam but rather that PC gamers are usually the ones to bring it up first while discounting all the ways to get console games outside of retail stores.

And my point was that console games act like the first and last stop on finding a good deal for PC games is steam. Which is farthest from the truth. Both sides can easily be called guilty of discounting things from either side.

 

[BigDug13]

That would usually require per-ordering the game which if you are on PC is a crap shoot; specially if you are on the lower end of the PC power scale (which most are). I don't need to bring up rome total war 2 or sim city, etc. as to the dangers of doing that. Also I never said console gamers don't compare to steam but rather that PC gamers are usually the ones to bring it up first while discounting all the ways to get console games outside of retail stores.

Your entire argument is that your way of giving developers $0 by only buying second hand and trading is superior to a PC gamer's way of paying a Developer $some by buying games during a Steam sale or at a launch sale.

I concede that your method is probably cheaper.

 

[GOGOheadray]

You act like console gamers and PC gamers are 100% two separate groups.



So really you're not supporting developers at all? At least developers get some money from a Steam sale. You're basically a loss for the console maker on hardware purchase and a no-net-gain to all developers, publishers, first parties, etc. Even a Redbox user or Gamefly subscriber is helping to put at least some money into dev pockets.

Not 100% separate but for the most part they are separate groups with different buying tendencies and different beliefs as to how to go about getting games; the reaction to the X1 from the console community is proof of that.

I fail to see how I am not supporting developers. Somebody did buy the game at full price it just wasn't me that did it...

 

[GOGOheadray]

Your entire argument is that your way of giving developers $0 by only buying second hand and trading is superior to a PC gamer's way of paying a Developer $some by buying games during a Steam sale or at a launch sale.

I concede that your method is probably cheaper.

My argument only applies to how it is as cheap/or even cheaper than PC gaming. Never did I say it was morally superior; which of course I could care less about.

 

[GOGOheadray]

And my point was that console games act like the first and last stop on finding a good deal for PC games is steam. Which is farthest from the truth. Both sides can easily be called guilty of discounting things from either side.

Fair enough

 

[BigDug13]

I fail to see how I am not supporting developers. Somebody did buy the game at full price it just wasn't me that did it...

Are you serious with this? At least buying from Steam gives the dev money. How in the hell do you expect to even have games to play in the future if you're unwilling to pay developers who make the games? Buying a few used games is one thing, but your entire library was purchased with money that developers never saw. That's pretty jacked.

So yes, you are correct in that your method is cheaper than PC gaming. But at a cost that I'm not comfortable with.

 

[Nokterian]

People hating PC and hating on Consoles.

I own both because i love gaming.

Also i love PC gaming more because cheaper games,can play games from the 90's er even further back with fan mods also play with mods to enhance and getting new content to keep old and new games fresh etc. But i do love my PS3/4 and Vita just to play different but the hate here is so unreal.

Dota 2 is my most played game yet and playing also great indie's on pc makes it worth while. PC is going no where and its getting bigger and bigger each year.

 

[JBourne]

I fail to see how I am not supporting developers. Somebody did buy the game at full price it just wasn't me that did it...

Uh.

 

[GOGOheadray]

Are you serious with this? At least buying from Steam gives the dev money. How in the hell do you expect to even have games to play in the future if you're unwilling to pay developers who make the games? Buying a few used games is one thing, but your entire library was purchased with money that developers never saw. That's pretty jacked.

So yes, you are correct in that your method is cheaper than PC gaming. But at a cost that I'm not comfortable with.

I'm comfortable with it and to me that is all that matters. As I said the developers did get their money with the intial sale. Irregardless of how I got my games that fact still stands.

 

[Armaros]

I don't even try to engage when it comes to the love for Plus. In the console context it is a great deal and justifies the fee so much more than Live did back in the day. It is a good service. But I don't think a lot of the people who point it out being competitive with Steam sales have the slightest idea what actually happens on the PC side. It almost isn't even worth arguing.

And thats just comparing it to Steam much less the other services that can make things even cheaper.

 

[BigDug13]

I'm comfortable with it and to me that is all that matters. As I said the developers did get their money with the intial sale. Irregardless of how I got my games that fact still stands.

It's fine if that's the way you feel, but bragging about how your no-developer-support method is superior to a PC gamer waiting for a Steam sale as far as money saved just seems sort of repugnant. This forum is frequented by publishers and developers. It's just rude to broadcast how little you think of their livelihood just to showcase how much cheaper your method is.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Romero is funny.

 

[njean777]

The discussion is about buying retail console vs PC. Yeah you can trade games with your friend who happens to own the same console as you and happens to buy different games than you. But that's such a specific and not wide-spread phenomenon, I'm not sure why that has relevance to the overall discussion. I mean technically there are ways for your friend to download the same game as you on PC as well if we want to get into "there are other non-retail ways to do this for cheaper" discussions. And being able to share games with your friend so that he never has to buy the game is exactly what console makers want to kill and why Microsoft had made their attempt early last year.

I would argue that it is very common for people to share games. Especially younger people. With consoles you can just give them the disc, on pc's it isn't as easy or convenient.