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[cripterion]

Here you go:









See how leaving the "don't owe you shit" part coupled with "Bungie defense force" caused the confusion?

Your edit didn't come until after I posted, by the way.

And once again I agreed with you but how does me responding that I already got charged money for the game gets me replies like "no one forced you to do that?" Where did I say I had an issue with that, unless you're jumping to conclusions?

The rest of my comment is there because you've pretty much been doing damage control all along in this thread?

I get you like this game and it's devs, just understand that I while I like the game too I still think it's dissapointing if there's only one area for each planet which is the very topic of this thread.

 

[Two Words]

Nah, you've just stated how you feel many times. MANY times. Why keep repeating it over and over again? Like I said, all of us (even myself who hasn't posted in this thread very much) are very clear on your feelings about this game and how you feel about being lied to.

Is it that you think Bungie guys have a greater chance of seeing it if you keep posting it and thus will learn the error of their ways and send out a community apology letter making everything all better again? I just don't see why you're investing so much time into saying the exact same thing over and over again. Your posts aren't going anywhere... we can still read them.

Why aren't you asking the other person I was talking to why he kept constantly trying to qualify how I should feel? He is just as guilty of this supposed spamming you are talking about.

 

[benny_a]

So it's okay to take the part of his statement that says, "I could go there right now" literally, but the part where he says, "all of this is playable space that we hope to one day get to send you to" shouldn't be taken literally at all?

Are you seriously missing that that is you making a choice as to which part of a single statement you want to not only acknowledge but then extrapolate from to form an assumption?

I have to get back from retirement for this because obviously there is not only your way to interpret that sentence.

It's a hands-off demo. The people like myself that think that whole sentence is misleading is because that is being read as: We hope to have you play our game when it's out, because this is hands-off.

Clearly you disagree with that interpretation and the E3 2013 demo is just a conceptual demo and Bungie doesn't know what kind of game they are making yet. It's not like it has been in development for several years at the time of debut.

 

[Papercuts]

So it's okay to take the part of his statement that says, "I could go there right now" literally, but the part where he says, "all of this is playable space that we hope to one day get to send you to" shouldn't be taken literally at all?

Are you seriously missing that that is you making a choice as to which part of a single statement you want to not only acknowledge but then extrapolate from to form an assumption?

You can't get it both ways. Either the whole statement is literal, in which case he clearly states that it's a hope/goal for sometime in the future. Or the whole thing is taken with a grain of sand, in which case he's just showing off that the area is a physical space and not just a skybox.

I took it to mean in the future = when the game is released and you can play/explore at your leisure.

 

[cripterion]

Has anyone from Bungie/urk said that we won't ever visit any of these places? Guys, wait for release, play it, then judge please.

No, that's another issue too. He neither denied nor confirmed anything, just came to say it was their biggest game to date.

If we had to wait until release of each game to be able to discuss about them, I don't think GAF would exist by the way.

 

[Homeboyd]

Why aren't you asking the other person I was talking to why he kept constantly trying to qualify how I should feel? He is just as guilty of this supposed spamming you are talking about.

I don't know man, it's all good. I was just curious. Your posts stuck out to me for some reason. Maybe they were more frequent in the pages I was reading. I just kept seeing you saying the equivalent of "they lied to me and that is not ok!" and I was just wondering what the goal was or what you hoped to achieve here.

Carry on.

 

[moonbox]

This notion that Bungie is willingly cutting areas from the game so they can sell them back to you as DLC is ridiculous.

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all. This isn't some conspiracy of whispers and hearsay, it's a known business practice. Bungie are just late to the party, and unfortunately it was Activision who invited them.

 

[methane47]

as someone who hasn't played much of destiny and also hasn't read all that much about it either.

This news is pretty disappointing.
I played the beta for a couple hours and hit level 7 and in this time i was already replaying missions.

I had a blast, but i definitely recognized there would be a grind.

Now to hear that i may have played 20% of the game.. in roughly 4 hrs ... is disheartening.

That said, what I did play was a blast.

 

[NullPointer]

Nah, you've just stated how you feel many times. MANY times. Why keep repeating it over and over again? Like I said, all of us (even myself who hasn't posted in this thread very much) are very clear on your feelings about this game and how you feel about being lied to.

Is it that you think Bungie guys have a greater chance of seeing it if you keep posting it and thus will learn the error of their ways and send out a community apology letter making everything all better again? I just don't see why you're investing so much time into saying the exact same thing over and over again. Your posts aren't going anywhere... we can still read them.

Man, three posts of yours now dedicated to telling another poster how much they're posting on the same topic.

Just get it all out in one post. Tell everyone truly how angry you are about another poster being angry.

 

[Fehyd]

/!\ LONG-ASS POST /!\​

REDACTED for quote purposes

/!\ LONG-ASS POST END /!\​

Well-said.

 

[Gaz_RB]

/!\ LONG-ASS POST /!\​

Great post. I agree with a lot of what you said.

I think this viewpoint that you are arguing against stems from an unrealistic and jaded view of game development. Not everyone is trying to cut stuff from their games and sell it to you as DLC. The truth is, games are getting more and more advanced and take immense amounts of manpower and money to make, and therefore can change over time.

Until people start realizing this and looking at it with understanding instead of anger, developers are going to be less and less likely to tune us in to their development process through various stages because it will likely end up with cries of deception, which I'm sure (for the great majority of games/developers) is not their intent. Look at Bloodborne as an example. At E3, they had a demo up and running, but didn't want to show it to the general public because of how harsh some people can be. And this is certainly becoming a trend.

Another point: people seem to want to know the details of all the content in the game before it is released. This strikes me as strange, because no one is forcing you to buy the game on release. If you simply waited until the game released, there will be tons of impressions and youtube videos and reviews that will answer your every question. Then you can decide whether the game is up your alley or not. Bungie shouldn't need to ruin any surprise or sense of discovery by telling you everything before the game is released.

 

[Homeboyd]

Man, three posts of yours now dedicated to telling another poster how much they're posting on the same topic.

Just get it all out in one post. Tell everyone truly how angry you are about another poster being angry.

But he kept replying to me! What was I supposed to do??? Ignore it?!

 

[moonbox]

But he kept replying to me! What was I supposed to do??? Ignore it?!

It's your life. You're supposed to do whatever you want to do. Why are you even justifying yourself to some random person on the internet?

 

[Pattycakes]

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all. This isn't some conspiracy of whispers and hearsay, it's a known business practice. Bungie are just late to the party, and unfortunately it was Activision who invited them.

So you are saying that Bungie did cut content from the release for the DLC? Would you happen to have proof of this or should I chalk it up to talking out of your ass?

Every game announces DLC before launch these days. Not every game that has a season pass is cutting content from their release game, but by your logic they are.

 

[Trickster]

So it's okay to take the part of his statement that says, "I could go there right now" literally, but the part where he says, "all of this is playable space that we hope to one day get to send you to" shouldn't be taken literally at all?

Are you seriously missing that that is you making a choice as to which part of a single statement you want to not only acknowledge but then extrapolate from to form an assumption?

You can't get it both ways. Either the whole statement is literal, in which case he clearly states that it's a hope/goal for sometime in the future. Or the whole thing is taken with a grain of sand, in which case he's just showing off that the area is a physical space and not just a skybox.

Even if you take it all literal, it's still not true what he said. I honestly can't fathom why you would try to defend that particular part of their presentation so much. Looking back on it now, it was clearly bullshit at the time, anyone should be able to see that.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I have to get back from retirement for this because obviously there is not only your way to interpret that sentence.

It's a hands-off demo. The people like myself that think that whole sentence is misleading is because that is being read as: We hope to have you play our game when it's out, because this is hands-off.

Clearly you disagree with that interpretation and the E3 2013 demo is just a conceptual demo and Bungie doesn't know what kind of game they are making yet. It's not like it has been in development for several years at the time of debut.

Given your interpretation of the statement, why does he throw the grenade out into empty space? If that action wasn't taken to give context to his meaning, then what is the point of it?

You're also taking quite the liberty with my statement with the claims that my stance is that "Bungie doesn't know what kind of game they're making yet," which does disservice to your response because it's clearly not what I'm saying at all.

The E3 Demo was a Demo of what a Strike would be like in the final game. I don't take early game demos or early statements to be representative of what will be in the final game because I know that things change over time. I know this because it happens in nearly every game that's made. This is why people always remind others not to set their expectations too high when games like this are announced because things are very likely to change.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Good point. Xenoblade is freaking massive in scope.

Will these online multiplayer focused shooters always be this
light on content?

How light on content? We can't really tell if Destiny is light on content because no one has it yet...

 

[Lucent]

I took it to mean in the future = when the game is released and you can play/explore at your leisure.

Yeah. If he could go there during that time, then it should be in the game. Right? If the area is already made then what would stop them from including it? Just what I'm getting from his comment.

 

[Screaming Meat]

/! LONG-ASS EVEN HANDED RESPONSE /!

You make way too much sense to be here.

 

[Homeboyd]

It's your life. You're supposed to do whatever you want to do. Why are you even justifying yourself to some random person on the internet?

lol this guy... just jokin with the guy!

 

[codhand]

I'm getting the game. I have it pre-ordered. I didn't cancel. One area per planet doesn't make me rage. That being said;

I wouldn't be penning a full-throated defense of a situation where we can't possibly know everything that's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Even if you take it all literal, it's still not true what he said. I honestly can't fathom why you would try to defend that particular part of their presentation so much. Looking back on it now, it was clearly bullshit at the time, anyone should be able to see that.

I'm talking about that comment because it's the crux of the "Bungie lied to us!" arguments and I feel that the statement itself is not anywhere near enough to make such as assertion over. It's not at all reasonable to latch onto such a passing statement from so early in the game's press so vehemently as to claim it was an intentional lie to sell the game on. It's just a minor event in the grand scheme of marketing it makes no sense to me to assume it was an intentional lie.

 

[ItsAllGoodInMyHood]

Yes lets hold back all criticism until the game is on the shelves please because thats sensible.

exactly my point

No, that's another issue too. He neither denied nor confirmed anything, just came to say it was their biggest game to date.

If we had to wait until release of each game to be able to discuss about them, I don't think GAF would exist by the way.

This "discussion" is mostly posts like "well that sucks" or "i'm so disappointed".

I'm sorry, I might be reacting to much but I'm actually stoked for this game since "Brave New World" video, that they've released during the Halo service transition.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Great post. I agree with a lot of what you said.

I think this viewpoint that you are arguing against stems from an unrealistic and jaded view of game development. Not everyone is trying to cut stuff from their games and sell it to you as DLC. The truth is, games are getting more and more advanced and take immense amounts of manpower and money to make, and therefore can change over time.

Until people start realizing this and looking at it with understanding instead of anger, developers are going to be less and less likely to tune us in to their development process through various stages because it will likely end up with cries of deception, which I'm sure (for the great majority of games/developers) is not their intent. Look at Bloodborne as an example. At E3, they had a demo up and running, but didn't want to show it to the general public because of how harsh some people can be. And this is certainly becoming a trend.

Another point: people seem to want to know the details of all the content in the game before it is released. This strikes me as strange, because no one is forcing you to buy the game on release. If you simply waited until the game released, there will be tons of impressions and youtube videos and reviews that will answer your every question. Then you can decide whether the game is up your alley or not. Bungie shouldn't need to ruin any surprise or sense of discovery by telling you everything before the game is released.

Yup. It's a sad thing too. A develop wanted to be a bit more open and show off concept art, etc and then all these years later well this is what we get. I have no doubt that when they started they had all kinds of ideas for the game. Not all of these make it though sadly. It doesn't mean that they can't come back at a later date and look at this stuff and go hell let's do it now. Bungie did this with Halo even. There were cut modes, maps, missions, etc that they wanted to do in earlier games that they either couldn't due to technical limitations or just due to time and the development processes. They came back though later and used those ideas. It's a part of development. A sad part really.

 

[Gaz_RB]

I'm getting the game. I have it pre-ordered. I didn't cancel. One area per planet doesn't make me rage. That being said;

I wouldn't be penning a full-throated defense of a situation where we can't possibly know everything that's going on behind the scenes.

If you're referring to Tiemen's post, it wasn't really a defense. More of an appeal to rationality.

 

[Lucent]

Well, this is basically a concern thread with just everybody trying to get the concerned people to calm down or something. There's the beta withdrawal thread if you want nothing but positive discussion. Otherwise, just gonna be wasting time in here. These the mean streets, yo.

Spoiler

I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[benny_a]

Given your interpretation of the statement, why does he throw the grenade out into empty space? If that action wasn't taken to give context to his meaning, then what is the point of it?

I don't know man, I don't know why he threw the grenade. I'm not some post modernist scholar that is going to analyze all kinds of stuff and then come up with some mumbo jumbo. This is me when I read "why does he throw the grenade?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruJBKFrRCk

You're also taking quite the liberty with my statement with the claims that my stance is that "Bungie doesn't know what kind of game they're making yet," which does disservice to your response because it's clearly not what I'm saying at all.

I read that you called some of these things conceptual ideas for the IP. I didn't think it was clear that you're not arguing for the "playable space" part to fall under that.

The E3 Demo was a Demo of what a Strike would be like in the final game. I don't take early game demos or early statements to be representative of what will be in the final game because I know that things change over time. I know this because it happens in nearly every game that's made. This is why people always remind others not to set their expectations too high when games like this are announced because things are very likely to change.

That's fine that you don't think gameplay shown at E3 is representative of the final game. I however think it's not defensible for a publisher/developer to show a version of your game that diverges too much from the final product.

I have proposed (not that I can influence it in any meaningful way) that games get announced later when the first public demo of a game is more representative of the final product.
I don't understand how having game demos be more representative of the final game is anything but good.

I'm not saying it's malicious or that Bungie are evil schemers or that the final game isn't good.

The reality the way I see it is that the game they've shown when they announced it is sufficiently different from the game the way it ends up at launch.
A missing animation of someone phasing into the world is unfortunate, but the scale that I interpreted to have been promised is not being met is what I consider divergent enough from the final product to have been misleading.

 

[nowheretorun]

Enjoyed the beta and it was fun to play together with my son.

Was looking forward to exploring different planets so will keep my eye on the development of this.

Although I realize it was beta, some things need addressing:
- jaggies
- turning when running seemed off


I might even wait for a Destiny 2...

 

[Trickster]

I'm talking about that comment because it's the crux of the "Bungie lied to us!" arguments and I feel that the statement itself is not anywhere near enough to make such as assertion over. It's not at all reasonable to latch onto such a passing statement from so early in the game's press so vehemently as to claim it was an intentional lie to sell the game on. It's just a minor event in the grand scheme of marketing it makes no sense to me to assume it was an intentional lie.

Even though it was early in the PR phase for the game, it was relative late in the games overall development cycle, I mean the areas featured in that demo is pretty much the exact same one that was the alpha and beta.

And you say it was a minor event. But it was still something they took time out of from their demo to specifically point out to everyone. It's not some small slip-up during a random interview. It's their own preplanned gameplay demo.

 

[Nocturnal]

Sometimes, GAF demands too much.

I played the beta and loved it. They kinda mixed my favourite genres into a nicely polished title. I wonder how would a RPG made by Bungie would be.

Would buy if I had more time to play... Sorry, Bungie!

 

[Gaz_RB]

I don't know man, I don't know why he threw the grenade. I'm not some post modernist scholar that is going to analyze all kinds of stuff and then come up with some mumbo jumbo. This is me when I read "why does he throw the grenade?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruJBKFrRCk

hahaha that video is something else.

 

[jett]

/!\ LONG-ASS POST /!\​

/!\ LONG-ASS POST END /!\​

That's a good post right there.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Had tons of fun! To be honest, I'm hoping you guys gonna support PVE with new stuff, so I can hop in from Crucible from time to time and find new/fresh events etc.

Bring on the retail - you got my vote!

Having seen your post history, that shouldn't be a surprise.

47 posts in a month and a half, all about bungie products.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Can't be. It literally took 1-1.5hrs max to explore every single inch (available to us in Alpha/Beta) of "Earth" if this is true... consider me disappointed. I have faith in Bungie... but the DLC shit is annoying.

 

[cripterion]

exactly my point



This "discussion" is mostly posts like "well that sucks" or "i'm so disappointed".

I'm sorry, I might be reacting to much but I'm actually stoked for this game since "Brave New World" video, that they've released during the Halo service transition.

This thread is as valid as the other ones imo, they're like 4 threads already praising the game to hell and back and even one about the ingame dancing.
I'm glad threads like these exists, I always assumed there were more than one area per planet prior to this.

 

[ItsAllGoodInMyHood]

Having seen your post history, that shouldn't be a surprise.

47 posts in a month and a half, all about bungie products.

Is that a crime? I don't play many games (last was Transistor) and been waiting for Destiny for a long time now.

I always assumed there were more than one area per planet prior to this.

Bungie mistake to give us "whole" Old Russia to explore. People got their expectations way too high.

 

[Llyrwenne]

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all. This isn't some conspiracy of whispers and hearsay, it's a known business practice. Bungie are just late to the party, and unfortunately it was Activision who invited them.

While there have been instances of this happening recently, I think it is unfair and unreasonable to take those instances and apply that to all of the game development community.

Until there is damning evidence for them cutting finished content with malicious intent, this is just conspiracy / paranoia.

 

[Nocturno999]

Having seen your post history, that shouldn't be a surprise.

47 posts in a month and a half, all about bungie products.

Yeah, it's getting out of hand.

 

[tfur]

After standing on the edge of the Tower, and looking down...

If we cannot go to at least some assortment of the locations in view, then it will be a pretty major let down. I find it hard to believe someone would develop such a world in view, and leave out the basic notion of going to some of the areas of where your eye can see.

I simply am not willing to believe that Old Russia is the only Earth area. I am expecting more places on Earth.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all. This isn't some conspiracy of whispers and hearsay, it's a known business practice. Bungie are just late to the party, and unfortunately it was Activision who invited them.

What exactly has made you think they are cutting out content to serve up as DLC? That they have the audacity to name them and know what sort of content they will have?

 

[cripterion]

While there have been instances of this happening recently, I think it is unfair and unreasonable to take those instances and apply that to all of the game development community.

Until there is damning evidence for them cutting finished content with malicious intent, this is just conspiracy / paranoia.

Not to be an ass but the fact that they already have exclusive content for Playstation users kinda makes me agree with him. Not that I care but you know it's there.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I find it sad that some people are accusing Bungie of...cutting content from the game to sell it back to you later as DLC...It's uncalled for and unreasonable.

This notion that Bungie is willingly cutting areas from the game so they can sell them back to you as DLC is ridiculous. Will we see some of the areas from concept art added in at a later date or in future Destiny releases as some form of DLC? Probably. Not because they were intentionally cut from this initial release with malicious intent, but because those are areas Bungie wanted to explore in the Destiny franchise but wasn't able to get into the first Destiny release for either time, budget, platform, performance, resources or parity-related restrictions or circumstances.

As of right now, there is nothing that points at Bungie intentionally cutting content ( as they have no reason to do so ) for malicious reasons. If damning evidence arises in the future ( for instance, a future expansion being the only way to unlock an area that was blocked off but fully present and working in the Beta / full game ), by all means, fire away at them, but for now, it comes down to unreasonable knee-jerk reaction.

The DLC part I take issue with.

I don't mean to single out Destiny since I have zero proof of anything and because I think it happens throughout the industry, but I think it's much more likely than not that content is absolutely cut/held from games so we can be charged more later for content that could have been included to begin with. I think that's the way it is and I think it's only going to get worse in the future. It won't surprise me at all if we get to a point where there's just as much DLC as day one disc game.

I think this because it simply makes sense and of course because there are cases of locked on disc content and such. If they can get away with it and make more money by doing so, why in the hell would they not do it? It's unfortunate but I fully believe it's the reality of the situation. Why sell a game for only $60 when you can basically sell it for $75 or $100?

You say it's "ridiculous" but logically speaking it's absolutely not ridiculous. It is a good idea if it works. And saying they have no reason to do this is also logically false. They stand to make a lot of extra money by doing this. That's an extremely good reason imo.

Having said that, I got double digit play hours out of the Destiny beta while playing exactly one single PvP match (everything else was PvE). So while I absolutely have concerns, again not just for this game in particular, I have no problem paying $60 for the content this game is providing day one.

 

[Gaz_RB]

After standing on the edge of the Tower, and looking down...

If we cannot go to at least some assortment of the locations in view, then it will be a pretty major let down. I find it hard to believe someone would develop such a world in view, and leave out the basic notion of going to some of the areas of where your eye can see.

I simply am not willing to believe that Old Russia is the only Earth area. I am expecting more places on Earth.

Then you should go ahead and let yourself down now. We don't get to go down to that city

Only good Ole Russia.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Yeah, it's getting out of hand.

Is it really a crime to be excited for Destiny? I don't see the problem with someone who's last 47 posts talking about Destiny.

 

[Zakalwe]

Where did I say I had an issue with that

I can't be any clearer than quoting each part explicitly for you.

The rest of my comment is there because you've pretty much been doing damage control all along in this thread?

Haha, I don't need to worry about any kind of control. The entire thing is there to be read by everyone.

 

[moonbox]

So you are saying that Bungie did cut content from the release for the DLC? Would you happen to have proof of this or should I chalk it up to talking out of your ass?

Every game announces DLC before launch these days. Not every game that has a season pass is cutting content from their release game, but by your logic they are.

Did I state that Bungie cut content? The idea is not ridiculous because it is a known business practice. Bungie have shown no inclination toward this practice in their past, however, they are now in bed with Activision. But regardless of who it is, the practice has become commonplace in the industry, therefore Activision or not, the idea is not ridiculous.

By my logic, it is a known business practice, therefore the idea is not ridiculous. That's it. I don't know how you pulled all those assumptions out of your arsehole but you must have a very large arsehole to have done that; treat it well. I hope you wipe yourself with silk after staining your toilet with those gigantic turds.

 

[cripterion]

Is that a crime? I don't play many games (last was Transistor) and been waiting for Destiny for a long time now.



Bungie mistake to give us "whole" Old Russia to explore. People got their expectations way too high.

No, the demo was a good idea and it's not why I thought the game would be featuring more areas per planet, it's just that it made sense when you call your game massive and you have previews talking about other zones like they are playable and all.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Did I state that Bungie cut content? The idea is not ridiculous because it is a known business practice. Bungie have shown no inclination toward this practice in their past, however, they are now in bed with Activision. But regardless of who it is, the practice has become commonplace in the industry, therefore Activision or not, the idea is not ridiculous.

By my logic, it is a known business practice, therefore the idea is not ridiculous. That's it. I don't know how you pulled all those assumptions out of your arsehole but you must have a very large arsehole to have done that; treat it well. I hope you wipe yourself with silk after staining your toilet with those gigantic turds.

and you were doing so good

 

[Interficium]

I don't know how you pulled all those assumptions out of your arsehole but you must have a very large arsehole to have done that; treat it well. I hope you wipe yourself with silk after staining your toilet with those gigantic turds.

You sound like a shit fetishist.

also:

Did I state that Bungie cut content?

Yes.

Well, imho you can bet that they have much more content done or nearly done but Activision being Activision they probably pulled some of that stuff to sell it as DLC/expansion I wonder when will the first DLC appear - my guess is there will be 1st DLC around Christmas time.

Aye to that.

 

[tfur]

Then you should go ahead and let yourself down now. We don't get to go down to that city

Only good Ole Russia.

Man this is hard to believe. This seems like a major omission to leave out such a basic and expected thing.

They (Bungie) have to realize that a good percentage of the people visiting the Tower, and looking over the edge, were/are of the mind that they would get to see some of the locations below.