Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

F8500 or GT60 ?

I just picked up the F8500. Of course the Panasonics were not available for me. I played with the Plasma some and really liked it. ALthough I am semi worried about burn in, some of my friends all have newer (last 2 years) models of Plasma's (samsung and Panasonic) and none have any burn in.

They are indeed cramming 4k/60 4:2:0 over 10.2Gbps, this is how they updated (some of) the 2013 4k TV models and Kepler GPU's to 4k/60.

The Onkyo has it, but apparently build quality might suck.

So it may sound like the Denon is a better choice? Or is there one in the same price range which would be better?

Of course the Onkyo TX-NR737 is Atmos ready... but now we are getting up there in price.
 
So it may sound like the Denon is a better choice? Or is there one in the same price range which would be better?

Of course the Onkyo TX-NR737 is Atmos ready... but now we are getting up there in price.
Indeed it's sounding to be the case, I'm just frustrated because "cramming" 4k/60 over 10 gbps is not passthrough.

If you could wait a while all this confusion would be cleared, seems like a really bad time to invest. I'd probably take HDCP 2.2 over bandwidth in the case of a 2K TV though, because bandwidth is not needed if the bluray player is outputting in 1080p, but HDCP 2.2 probably still will.

But this was before hearing about Onkyo's not being so hot right now.
 
Well, I do not plan on getting a 4K panel for at least 4-5 years. So maybe I should not worry so much about the 2.2 aspect, as it will not be useful to me anyways. I have gone 7-8 years on my current Onkyo receiver (which lacks any HDMI ports)

Edit 1: Also, why can DHCP not be upgraded through firmware? The have to have DSP's, etc which can be tweaked.

Edit 2: I am leaning towards the Denon X2100 I think.
 
Does anyone else have a Panasonic TC-L42E60? I'm just curious how you have your picture settings as I can't quite find a lot of info about the TV.
 
Okay I just ordered the Denon ARV-2100 (16 AWG wire). I should get it tomorrow with my TV. I used Amazon points which cut into the cost nicely :)

Hopefully I dun good!
 
Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting this TV: KDL-60W607B - BRAVIA Edge LED Full HD 60" with Internet TV. I'm mostly interested on it because of the size, no 3D (which I don't care for) and it being a W series which I've heard good things about. I currently have a PS3 with a Bravia 32" which turned out to be a really good TV. I have plans to get a PS4 later this year or early next year.

So, any feedback is welcome. Thanks!

Edit: I just realized the TV series seems to be country-specific. I can't find any reviews online. Do you guys know the US-equivalent series so I can search for reviews?
 
Okay I just ordered the Denon ARV-2100 (16 AWG wire). I should get it tomorrow with my TV. I used Amazon points which cut into the cost nicely :)

Hopefully I dun good!
First impressions? :)
Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting this TV: KDL-60W607B - BRAVIA Edge LED Full HD 60" with Internet TV. I'm mostly interested on it because of the size, no 3D (which I don't care for) and it being a W series which I've heard good things about. I currently have a PS3 with a Bravia 32" which turned out to be a really good TV. I have plans to get a PS4 later this year or early next year.

So, any feedback is welcome. Thanks!

Edit: I just realized the TV series seems to be country-specific. I can't find any reviews online. Do you guys know the US-equivalent series so I can search for reviews?
That's a W605B variant, just look for W605B reviews.

Anyway, it is not a bad TV, but it's a pity there's no W705B in US, because that would otherwise be the TV to go for.
 
First impressions? :)


So far so good. The F8500 is a sexy TV outside and inside!

Right now I have a Cable box/Xbox One/PS4/Xbox 360 connected to the X2100, and a single output to the TV. I did notice lag when game mode is turned off, but once I turned on game mode things got a lot better.

I am wondering if I should run two HDMI to the TV. One for the game systems and one for my cable. There are two HDMI out, so I am assuming I can pipe a source to whichever out I want?

I need a universal remote now too!
 
So far so good. The F8500 is a sexy TV outside and inside!

Right now I have a Cable box/Xbox One/PS4/Xbox 360 connected to the X2100, and a single output to the TV. I did notice lag when game mode is turned off, but once I turned on game mode things got a lot better.

I am wondering if I should run two HDMI to the TV. One for the game systems and one for my cable. There are two HDMI out, so I am assuming I can pipe a source to whichever out I want?

I need a universal remote now too!

That's what I do. I have all my consoles routed to HDMI 3 in PC mode on the 65F9000 (with the 2014 evolution kit) from the HDMI Out 2 on the receiver, the rest to the HDMI 2 in Movie mode from the HDMI Main output on the receiver. I use a Logitech Ultimate remote, so any operation to turn on tv, receiver, etc. is one push of a button on the touch display on the remote.
 
That's what I do. I have all my consoles routed to HDMI 3 in PC mode on the 65F9000 (with the 2014 evolution kit) from the HDMI Out 2 on the receiver, the rest to the HDMI 2 in Movie mode from the HDMI Main output on the receiver. I use a Logitech Ultimate remote, so any operation to turn on tv, receiver, etc. is one push of a button on the touch display on the remote.

Awesome. I will set it up that way tonight. So you must have a dedicated Blu-Ray player running through the first HDMI (non-game)?

I have a quick question ...

What is the difference between the Ultimate and the Ultimate One? Is it just the hub, but the remote is the same?

Is there a 'vs' out there so I know what I will be missing if I do not get the Ultimate? I think you can only turn on the Xbox or PS4 with the bluetooth from the hub right? Maybe that's the key difference.
 
Awesome. I will set it up that way tonight. So you must have a dedicated Blu-Ray player running through the first HDMI (non-game)?

Yeah. Along with the cable tuner, apple tv and other various bits and pieces. Creating a separate activity for the PS4 Blu-ray would be easy enough if I wanted to use it as a BD player on the main output from the receiver.
I have a quick question ...

What is the difference between the Ultimate and the Ultimate One? Is it just the hub, but the remote is the same?

Is there a 'vs' out there so I know what I will be missing if I do not get the Ultimate? I think you can only turn on the Xbox or PS4 with the bluetooth from the hub right? Maybe that's the key difference.

The Ultimate One seems to lack the Hub, yes. Ultimate includes the hub, which is quite brilliant tbh.

Unfortunately, the PS4 doesn't have bt remote control support yet, so I need to turn that one on manually. I don't know about the xbone, but the xbox 360 and PS3 are controlled just fine with it.
 
Right now I have a Cable box/Xbox One/PS4/Xbox 360 connected to the X2100, and a single output to the TV. I did notice lag when game mode is turned off, but once I turned on game mode things got a lot better.
There's a trick to input lag on samsungs, the fastest mode is not actually game mode but renaming the HDMI port consoles are taking as "PC".

Of course this is perfect for consoles and PC, but not as good for movies, hence you want to use one hdmi port for movie settings and other for game settings, if possible, instead of changing "that" all the time.
I am wondering if I should run two HDMI to the TV. One for the game systems and one for my cable. There are two HDMI out, so I am assuming I can pipe a source to whichever out I want?
Yup! ;)
 
Does everyone think 4K is essential now or is it just because you guys can afford a $3000 TV so why not?

Trying to decide between Samsung 6400 and 8500 and if the 4K is necessary in 2014
 
Does everyone think 4K is essential now or is it just because you guys can afford a $3000 TV so why not?

Trying to decide between Samsung 6400 and 8500 and if the 4K is necessary in 2014

4k is absolutely not necessary. Don't buy one. The size / distance ratio in a hypothetical world where everything is broadcasted in 4k is a joke. For example, you need around a 75" at a 10' distance to tell the difference between 4k and 1080p. But, in the real world, almost nothing is broadcasted in 4k. Streaming the 2 or 3 shows that are on netflix in 4k requires 25mbps connection, and even then it is a compressed image. The UHD upscaler on the samsung TV's is mediocre at best and further enhances the size / distance ratio.

DISH, Directv, and my local cable don't even broadcast in 1080p unless it's on demand. Who knows how many years it will be before 4k is even broadcasted. By the time it is you will probably be ready for another tv anyway. Also, not all 4k tv's support HDMI 2.0, which is required if you want to go beyond 1080p /30hz.

4k only makes sense right now if it were the same price as your 1080p sets, and truthfully you can get a high end 1080p set for a lot cheaper.

I own the samsung f8500 plasma and couldn't be happier.
 
Alright I need a new TV, im going to use it mostly for gaming (ps4/wiiu), watching movies and just normal stuff on it.

I really dont know that much about TVs but ive looked abit and found 3 different ones that sound interesting to me

LG 47LA7408

Sony BRAVIA KDL-42W805

and

LG 47LA6418


Thoughts on those, which one would best suit my needs?

Sonys are usually the best in terms of input lag, and from my experiences have solid black level performance for LED televisions. I would probably go with the sony. My runner up would be the 47la7408.
 
4k is absolutely not necessary. Don't buy one. The size / distance ratio in a hypothetical world where everything is broadcasted in 4k is a joke. For example, you need around a 75" at a 10' distance to tell the difference between 4k and 1080p. But, in the real world, almost nothing is broadcasted in 4k. Streaming the 2 or 3 shows that are on netflix in 4k requires 25mbps connection, and even then it is a compressed image. The UHD upscaler on the samsung TV's is mediocre at best and further enhances the size / distance ratio.

DISH, Directv, and my local cable don't even broadcast in 1080p unless it's on demand. Who knows how many years it will be before 4k is even broadcasted. By the time it is you will probably be ready for another tv anyway. Also, not all 4k tv's support HDMI 2.0, which is required if you want to go beyond 1080p /30hz.

4k only makes sense right now if it were the same price as your 1080p sets, and truthfully you can get a high end 1080p set for a lot cheaper.

I own the samsung f8500 plasma and couldn't be happier.

This is very helpful and along the lines of a lot of thinking. Only worry is when that 4K disc player and 4K movies come out, and people start talking about how good it looks.

I'll check out that plasma when I'm at BB. I love plasma colors, but the room is very bright, and I've always loved the precision of LCD for gaming.
 
There's a trick to input lag on samsungs, the fastest mode is not actually game mode but renaming the HDMI port consoles are taking as "PC".

Of course this is perfect for consoles and PC, but not as good for movies, hence you want to use one hdmi port for movie settings and other for game settings, if possible, instead of changing "that" all the time.

How does this affect the picture quality? In 'PC'? (All caps or does it not matter?)


I guess I will be buying one of these tonight.
 
Does everyone think 4K is essential now or is it just because you guys can afford a $3000 TV so why not?

Trying to decide between Samsung 6400 and 8500 and if the 4K is necessary in 2014

Not essential, but I hate to make any type of purchase without a 5 year plan. TV's are always 5 year purchases to me, if in 3 years its going to extremely outdated thanks to a new format, I hold off.

Right now I have a Samsung 52A650, bought back in 2008, sitll holds up with 2013 sets and looks beautiful. It was the perfect time to buy it, no new formatts were on the horizon, but it cost me $2500 (well worth it)

The point is, buying a 1080p screen right now is beyond stupid to me. You and I both know you'll walk into a show room in 2 years, seeing 4k content on screens that will put any 1080p set you buy now to shame. Your going to regret it. So either wait a year and grab a high end 4k screen that will last you a few years, or pony up the cash now and get one.
 
Not essential, but I hate to make any type of purchase without a 5 year plan. TV's are always 5 year purchases to me, if in 3 years its going to extremely outdated thanks to a new format, I hold off.

Right now I have a Samsung 52A650, bought back in 2008, sitll holds up with 2013 sets and looks beautiful. It was the perfect time to buy it, no new formatts were on the horizon, but it cost me $2500 (well worth it)

The point is, buying a 1080p screen right now is beyond stupid to me. You and I both know you'll walk into a show room in 2 years, seeing 4k content on screens that will put any 1080p set you buy now to shame. Your going to regret it. So either wait a year and grab a high end 4k screen that will last you a few years, or pony up the cash now and get one.

I disagree. In 2 years you will walk into the room and see the cheap 4K LED's next to the expensive and awesome 4K OLED and say, I will wait 2 more years until it comes down in price.

So now you are on your 5 year plan. Which happens to be the plan I am on! 4K TV's right now are like jumping into the EDHD TV's.
 
Not essential, but I hate to make any type of purchase without a 5 year plan. TV's are always 5 year purchases to me, if in 3 years its going to extremely outdated thanks to a new format, I hold off.

Right now I have a Samsung 52A650, bought back in 2008, sitll holds up with 2013 sets and looks beautiful. It was the perfect time to buy it, no new formatts were on the horizon, but it cost me $2500 (well worth it)

The point is, buying a 1080p screen right now is beyond stupid to me. You and I both know you'll walk into a show room in 2 years, seeing 4k content on screens that will put any 1080p set you buy now to shame. Your going to regret it. So either wait a year and grab a high end 4k screen that will last you a few years, or pony up the cash now and get one.

This is the other way of thinking, and it's valid, too. I also have an A650 (a 46"), and I don't think it still look beautiful. It looks good, but it doesn't have LED, the blacks are pretty terrible, and it's very dark compared to current TVs. I have to turn up the brightness on every video game to max and I still can't see the dark side of the brightness screen.

What I don't like about TVs like the A650 is I feel I payed a premium for new technology (1080p, 120 Hz) that was at least $1000 cheaper a couple years later. I could have bought a similar 1080p set a year or so later for a lot less and then bought another a few years later and had better sets of the same size for the same amount of total money.

So. I kind of feel the same way about 4K. I'm tired of having a 46" screen with no LED. If I get the 6400 now, I can have a 60" screen for 2-3 years with LED and 3D (I love 3D—I don't know why I just do), and then when 4K prices come down, I can get a 70"+ 4K set and really enjoy the benefits of the better resolution on a set I can afford.

I mean I could pay $4000 for a huge 4K set now or $1500 for a 60" LED 3D HDTV now and then $1500 in a few years for my 4K. The only 4K sets I can afford now are not going to be big enough to really warrant the upgrade.

But both ways of thinking make sense to me. I could see waiting for 4K until a year from now when it goes down another $1000. Thanks for input. Glad to find another happy A650 owner. If I get the new set, it's going in the bedroom. Hope to keep that one until it dies. Love the Touch of Color bezel (though there's another gimmick that never caught on XD).
 
I disagree. In 2 years you will walk into the room and see the cheap 4K LED's next to the expensive and awesome 4K OLED and say, I will wait 2 more years until it comes down in price.

So now you are on your 5 year plan. Which happens to be the plan I am on! 4K TV's right now are like jumping into the EDHD TV's.

and thats something I am keeping in mind, thus why I havnt replaced my Samsung yet. its not limited to 5 years, I just expect a high priced tv to look good for 5 years. Honestly with 1080p sets I have found they have help up well over the years. Even on AVS forum the A650/A750 series is still praised and seen as a great set even in 2014. I'll hold onto it until I see a premium 4k set that will hold its own for awhile.

This is the other way of thinking, and it's valid, too. I also have an A650 (a 46"), and I don't think it still look beautiful. It looks good, but it doesn't have LED, the blacks are pretty terrible, and it's very dark compared to current TVs. I have to turn up the brightness on every video game to max and I still can't see the dark side of the brightness screen.

What I don't like about TVs like the A650 is I feel I payed a premium for new technology (1080p, 120 Hz) that was at least $1000 cheaper a couple years later. I could have bought a similar 1080p set a year or so later for a lot less and then bought another a few years later and had better sets of the same size for the same amount of total money.

So. I kind of feel the same way about 4K. I'm tired of having a 46" screen with no LED. If I get the 6400 now, I can have a 60" screen for 2-3 years with LED and 3D (I love 3D—I don't know why I just do), and then when 4K prices come down, I can get a 70"+ 4K set and really enjoy the benefits of the better resolution on a set I can afford.

I mean I could pay $4000 for a huge 4K set now or $1500 for a 60" LED 3D HDTV now and then $1500 in a few years for my 4K. The only 4K sets I can afford now are not going to be big enough to really warrant the upgrade.

But both ways of thinking make sense to me. I could see waiting for 4K until a year from now when it goes down another $1000. Thanks for input. Glad to find another happy A650 owner. If I get the new set, it's going in the bedroom. Hope to keep that one until it dies. Love the Touch of Color bezel (though there's another gimmick that never caught on XD).


Your thoughts on the 650's are curious to me, as its the opposite of what I've experienced. I still run mine at 5 brightness as anymore is just too bright, and sitting next to a midrange LED edge lit from 2014, she still looks better. The year after the A650's came out were filled with terrible edge lits and some great microdimming full array sets. I feel the 650's look a loot better than most edge lits, far more consistent and even.

But if you are unhappy with the screen, it is for sure time to get a new one. That in the end is what it's all about, what are you happy with and what can you afford to do :)
 
and thats something I am keeping in mind, thus why I havnt replaced my Samsung yet. its not limited to 5 years, I just expect a high priced tv to look good for 5 years. Honestly with 1080p sets I have found they have help up well over the years. Even on AVS forum the A650/A750 series is still praised and seen as a great set even in 2014. I'll hold onto it until I see a premium 4k set that will hold its own for awhile.




Your thoughts on the 650's are curious to me, as its the opposite of what I've experienced. I still run mine at 5 brightness as anymore is just too bright, and sitting next to a midrange LED edge lit from 2014, she still looks better. The year after the A650's came out were filled with terrible edge lits and some great microdimming full array sets. I feel the 650's look a loot better than most edge lits, far more consistent and even.

But if you are unhappy with the screen, it is for sure time to get a new one. That in the end is what it's all about, what are you happy with and what can you afford to do :)

I haven't completely made up my mind, which is why I'm asking here. XD

I'll take another hard look at the options at Best Buy. I bought the 650 based on seeing it at BB, so my eyes haven't let me down so far.

Interesting what you're saying about the 650 still getting praise at AVS. I do think it's held up remarkably well.

Bottom line: different people care about different things. My fiancé and I really like bright screens. I don't know why. We both like the 650 on Dynamic, which everyone said was a hideous setting (and I see why but I still like it XD). I tried calibrating the set, and it was just so damn dark! But then my girl comes home from work where they have a big TV and says, "Wow, the World Cup looks so different on our TV. The grass looks neon!" So, I want a newer TV not so much for a better picture but really just for A. a 60" screen, B. 3D which I'm weird but I love, and C. a brighter, more blown-out image, which totally goes against what is considered "good" IQ.

And then the 650 will be in the darker bedroom, which is perfect. I know you don't agree, but can you at least see my thinking?
 
How does this affect the picture quality? In 'PC'? (All caps or does it not matter?)
Varies from TV to TV but it behaves a lot like a monitor usually, and less like a TV, meaning options will be sparser (some stuff might be grayed out or absent) and stuff that takes time to process will be shat upon.

Samsung TV sets usually lag quite a bit also because the engine behind them analyses the source, not just the usual (knowing how many frames are being fed) but compares frames this means it has to delay "output" in order to make sure. It does this in order to ensure it's not doing work for nothing or creating artifacts, like "intermediate frames" for two frames that were equal to start with, or deinterlace 4 fields who're equal (2 end equal frames), stuff like that. If there's a repeated set number of frames it'll ignore them, subtract them and work properly, imagine a 24 fps movie converted into 30 frames, this can detect that. This makes motion better and doesn't "attempt" to stabilize a frame/image two times while thinking it's kickstarting motion, but timings have to be respected so to do all this the lag gets bigger. I don't think game mode is this complex already, but I know PC mode is pretty much a "monitor" mode, it turns on 4:4:4 and is supposedly limited in regards to non-standard resolutions (I don't know if it applies for this TV, but it applies to at least some samsungs in PC mode).

Specifically, it probably doesn't like some PS3 games much, because PS3 only has horizontal scaling on spec, doesn't resize vertically, which is why some games like GT5 use 1280x1080 and some other games use 880x720 (list here). Full vertical resolution, it'll be output 1920x1080 or 1280x720, but had they done other internal rendering choice (vertical resolution not being 720 or 1080 pixels high) some of the work would have to be done by the TV. I hear Samsungs in PC mode hate this (and otherwise chuck it up), so, say... Call of Duty Ghosts... being rendered at 928x600 (and most likely output at 1280x600) - won't work. Everything X360, Wii U, Xbox One (900p, lol) and PS4 works because they have internal vertical and horizontal scaling.

So, a lot like a PC monitor.
 
Man, this entertainment stuff is expensive!

New TV, New receiver and now new remote! I just ordered the Ultimate from Amazon. So tonight I will work on setting up my HDMI ports and see if I can get the movie and game(or pc) all set-up.

I still have to wire my rear speakers! Although not a permanent solution until I wire the walls up and buy new speakers, it will work. I want a nice long weekend of movie watching/video game playing, sports cheering!
 
The point is, buying a 1080p screen right now is beyond stupid to me. You and I both know you'll walk into a show room in 2 years, seeing 4k content on screens that will put any 1080p set you buy now to shame. Your going to regret it. So either wait a year and grab a high end 4k screen that will last you a few years, or pony up the cash now and get one.
It really isn't.

Pure marketing, convincing consumers they need more resolution when most people are already experiencing 300 ppi from where they're seated. See, more resolution is one of the few things consumers understand without you having to explain to them, unlike better color reproduction, better accuracy, less lag... whatever. And granted, before 1080p that was standard it was a big factor if content in that resolution was available, because ideal sitting distance didn't change (and wasn't/isn't dictated by resolution), so people could perceive more detail from the couch. Different that this:

Sharp_8K_with_Geoff610.jpg


Eff that.


300 ppi from the couch is "retina". But to each one his own. Like someone said, broadcasts in that resolution will take years to happen and even if you get really close and it's there, you ain't gonna see a soap opera like if you were on the first row of a tennis match, that's just silly.

Moving-animated-picture-of-ping-pong-cats.gif


Your neck thanks you.


Most of the gains are able to be experienced in 2K just the same. I want 4K bluray bad, but I don't give a shit about the extra resolution (really), I want 4K 4:2:0 rebated into something closed to 4:4:4 2K res, for instance. I also want movies with higher framerates and stuff my 1080p TV fully supports. Might I also mention that I am certain that for the pricepoint it cost I don't count on any 4K coming close anytime soon. So yeah, instead of being an early adopter and a glorified beta tester (for something that on top of it all gives me questionable advantages), I rather have the best today, which is better than anything 4K out there. Really. (and since we were talking about image quality, it's better on that too)

All 4K TV's up to this point lag quite a bit compared to some 1080p sets and they don't deal with 2K as well as they should because despite the fact one (1x1) 1080p pixel for them being 2x2 pixels (scaling should be direct), they either lack the bandwidth to process it in motion, hence avoid it and hide it behind a subset of options [Sony TV's] or add non-defeatable sharpening (Samsung and LG) because you bought a 4K TV therefore you must want to see sharper results.

Panasonic were the only ones doing it right (or better) a few months back. Probably didn't change much.

None are fully HDMI 2.0 compatible, and they are also prone to be outdated when it comes to it's 4K playback support real fast.

It's like buying a HDTV in 1999... Quite silly, by the time you had HD you were limited to component and 720p at best.
 
I haven't completely made up my mind, which is why I'm asking here. XD

I'll take another hard look at the options at Best Buy. I bought the 650 based on seeing it at BB, so my eyes haven't let me down so far.

Interesting what you're saying about the 650 still getting praise at AVS. I do think it's held up remarkably well.

Bottom line: different people care about different things. My fiancé and I really like bright screens. I don't know why. We both like the 650 on Dynamic, which everyone said was a hideous setting (and I see why but I still like it XD). I tried calibrating the set, and it was just so damn dark! But then my girl comes home from work where they have a big TV and says, "Wow, the World Cup looks so different on our TV. The grass looks neon!" So, I want a newer TV not so much for a better picture but really just for A. a 60" screen, B. 3D which I'm weird but I love, and C. a brighter, more blown-out image, which totally goes against what is considered "good" IQ.

And then the 650 will be in the darker bedroom, which is perfect. I know you don't agree, but can you at least see my thinking?

I completely see your thinking, and it makes sense. The a650/750 series were designed for darker/light controlled rooms (a lot of people hated the gloss screen when they came out because they wanted these to be in light heavy areas, on the AVS boards at the time they were only recommended to people in light controlled environments). If you bump up the brightness she loses most of her advantages *Which at the time were great color reproduction, great black levels, and uniformity)

The neon greens/yellows you are seeing are a direct result of the screen being driven to hard and not calibrated. I can reproduce the exact same thing on mine easily by switching it into one of the preset sports/game/dyno modes.

I think you'll find the screen should perform well in your dark room once you replace it and move it :)
 
Can you tell me how you have the 650 setup for when I move it?

The room it's in literally has floor to ceiling windows on 2 sides and a southern exposure!
 
There is so little 4K content, and will continue to be so little 4K content that it makes no sense to buy a 4K tv.

We already know our tv signals are compressed to hell 1080i feeds, and that's not changing anytime soon. The new consoles that just came out aren't doing 4K, and even if they do one day it's going to only be possible on the most basic looking games.

What that leaves you to look forward to is 4K blurays, all the while everything else you're watching at a lower resolution will look worse.
 
Unfortunately, the PS4 doesn't have bt remote control support yet, so I need to turn that one on manually. I don't know about the xbone, but the xbox 360 and PS3 are controlled just fine with it.

You don't have to turn the PS4 manually, just switch your receiver to the HDMI port than the PS4 is connected to and it will switch on, you might need HDMI Control enabled on the PS4 though.
 
I conctacted Clevelandplasma yesterday about pricig on the upcoming LG ec9300... being quoted at 3-3.3k shipped. Guy told me they do not charge tax.

Holy shit if true. A 55 inch OLED at around 3k. If input lag is less than 45ms... im in. Im dying to find out what the input lag on this is.
 
2013 set, non defeatable sharpening and 70 ms lag on PC mode is nothing to write home about.

Not a bad TV, but I wouldn't use it for gaming, nor do I like it very much (I don't like Samsung LCD's much as some specific quirks like agressive Micro Dimming drive me crazy. It's also not very future proof, I believe it's limited to 4K @ 30 fps... and even if they pull upgrades on the firmware/spec like Sony did it will never be HDMI 2.0 fully compliant. (unless some evo kit can pull that sort of miracle... It's limited to 10.2 Gbps, no H.265 support and no HDCP 2.2. It's a glorified 4K prototype and not even one of the best models released last year (perhaps the third best).

Price was cheap and it's definitely miles better than this piece of shit:

The Samsung UE55HU6900 is a case of you get what you pay for. Yes it’s 4K, but only when the picture on screen is mostly still. Once the camera starts panning, resolution drops away quite noticeably, and unfortunately there’s no motion-enhancing technology available on the set to reduce blurring.
Source: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue55hu6900-201405233782.htm

So it can be said you avoided the worst mine you could have stepped on. Just don't think that's a TV to last, and of all things 55"is too small, I doubt you'll be sitting less than 7 feet from it so there will be absolutely no gains to be seen, other than that dreadful undefeatable sharpening going on.
 
There is so little 4K content, and will continue to be so little 4K content that it makes no sense to buy a 4K tv.

We already know our tv signals are compressed to hell 1080i feeds, and that's not changing anytime soon. The new consoles that just came out aren't doing 4K, and even if they do one day it's going to only be possible on the most basic looking games.

What that leaves you to look forward to is 4K blurays, all the while everything else you're watching at a lower resolution will look worse.

PC is 4k's only app for the foreseeable future, no idea why anyone would consider buying one at this point without one. All 4k displays should have a 4:1 pixel direct mode that does not apply any scaling to 1080p sources. Sadly I believe the vast majority of them do not.
 
2013 set, non defeatable sharpening and 70 ms lag on PC mode is nothing to write home about.

Not a bad TV, but I wouldn't use it for gaming, nor do I like it very much (I don't like Samsung LCD's much as some specific quirks like agressive Micro Dimming drive me crazy. It's also not very future proof, I believe it's limited to 4K @ 30 fps... and even if they pull upgrades on the firmware/spec like Sony did it will never be HDMI 2.0 fully compliant. (unless some evo kit can pull that sort of miracle... It's 10.2 Gbps and no HDCP 2.2.

was that to me?

because that doesn't seem too promising.
 
I am having a problem connecting my Denon x2100 to my F8500. I am tying to connect 4 components to my dnon and then use 2 HDMI out to the tv. This way I can use one as a movie/tv and the other as a console setting.

Once I try to use two, I can no longer select the xbox's and sometimes the ps4. They will show for a second and then the screen goes black.
 
4k TVs mean jack and shit to my wife. While I might appreciate the difference between DVD and blu ray, my wife will only see and nod with the "Yeah, that really looks great" when she's able to see it at 120+ hz. Right now, we've got an older 1080p@60 55" LCD and she's happy watching old stuff on it.
 
was that to me?

because that doesn't seem too promising.
Yup... Sorry, I don't mean to sound too harsh and I can understand it looked like a good deal but...

I can't consider it to be a great purchase, not a lot of 4K models I consider good to start with, but that one's too laggy for gaming and then it's just a more incomplete implementation than most (not by a whole lot, in the end 4K 2014 TV's will also be incomplete or non 100% compliant). Anyway, that's first gen 4K, it might just be worse.

It'll still be in the upper range when it comes to image quality for a LCD, but has nothing to set it apart from regular F8000/F8500 sans a few things like Cinema Black gone - this is actually a plus as I hate that shit, the dimming mode on this one seems like it works better, but then it has non-defeatable sharpening.
I am having a problem connecting my Denon x2100 to my F8500. I am tying to connect 4 components to my dnon and then use 2 HDMI out to the tv. This way I can use one as a movie/tv and the other as a console setting.

Once I try to use two, I can no longer select the xbox's and sometimes the ps4. They will show for a second and then the screen goes black.
Is it set to passthrough on the receiver?
 
Yup... Sorry, I don't mean to sound too harsh and I can understand it looked like a good deal but...

I can't consider it to be a great purchase, not a lot of 4K models I consider good to start with, but that one's too laggy for gaming and then it's just a more incomplete implementation than most (not by a whole lot, in the end 4K 2014 TV's will also be incomplete or non 100% compliant). Anyway, that's first gen 4K, it might just be worse.

It'll still be in the upper range when it comes to image quality for a LCD, but has nothing to set it apart from regular F8000/F8500 sans a few things like Cinema Black gone - this is actually a plus as I hate that shit, the dimming mode on this one seems like it works better, but then it has non-defeatable sharpening.Is it set to passthrough on the receiver?

No no, no harshness at all. I appreciate it.
In fact, where did you read that it was 70ms input lag? I looked all over and couldn't find that metric. That was a good bit of news.

I'm not that upset about the size - for my space, 55 is about as big as I want to go - but I don't really want to kill my gaming. The GroupOn is for another 14 days, so I just "cancelled" my order so I had more time to think about it. So thanks for that.

is there a better alternative in terms of gaming?
I'm willing to spend up to that price, which was around $1850, I might as well maximize what I primarily want to use it for. I figured I'd want it for 7-8 years, that's why I was leaning more toward 4K just so I had that down that line. But I'm relatively open, as long as it's big improvements over my current one - which is a 7-8 year old 1080p Samsung.
 
Any thoughts on the F5300 Samsung plasma? Specifically the 51 inch? Doesn't have the pentile screen like the 60" model. Might be a good bang for the buck, especially for a light controlled bedroom. Some good user reports, some red/pink push but seems to be isolated towards the pentile screen.
 
Not sure if this is true. But... B&H has the LG 65" 4K OLED for pre-order. The price? $6,999

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1028760-REG/lg_65ec9700_65_4k_smart_3d.html

I would shat my pants if they released a 65" non-curved, non 3D & 1080p only set at half the price.


Any thoughts on the F5300 Samsung plasma? Specifically the 51 inch? Doesn't have the pentile screen like the 60" model. Might be a good bang for the buck, especially for a light controlled bedroom. Some good user reports, some red/pink push but seems to be isolated towards the pentile screen.

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/samsung/f5300

Doesn't have the brightness or deep black levels of the F8500.
 
2013 set, non defeatable sharpening and 70 ms lag on PC mode is nothing to write home about.

Not a bad TV, but I wouldn't use it for gaming, nor do I like it very much (I don't like Samsung LCD's much as some specific quirks like agressive Micro Dimming drive me crazy. It's also not very future proof, I believe it's limited to 4K @ 30 fps... and even if they pull upgrades on the firmware/spec like Sony did it will never be HDMI 2.0 fully compliant. (unless some evo kit can pull that sort of miracle... It's limited to 10.2 Gbps, no H.265 support and no HDCP 2.2. It's a glorified 4K prototype and not even one of the best models released last year (perhaps the third best).

The Evo kits for the 1st and higher end 2nd gen sets use the One Connect box. The current replacement for 1st gen models adds HDMI 2.0(lite), HDCP 2.2, HEVC and apps like Netflix 4K. Future versions should be capable of providing full HDMI capabilities. It's pricey at $400 but it could be worth it every few years if Samsung keeps supporting it.
 
No no, no harshness at all. I appreciate it.
In fact, where did you read that it was 70ms input lag? I looked all over and couldn't find that metric. That was a good bit of news.
Hdtvtest states 69 ms of lag and trustedreviews states 66 ms.
I'm not that upset about the size - for my space, 55 is about as big as I want to go - but I don't really want to kill my gaming. The GroupOn is for another 14 days, so I just "cancelled" my order so I had more time to think about it. So thanks for that.
55" is not the issue, it's having 4K at that size... Imagine you had 4K on a cell phone... It's kinda like that. It's like paying for yogurt with more bacteria.

4K is diminishing gains, read this. Even dudes whose job is reviewing these have trouble telling them apart complete with 4K content going on.

Anyway, there's math for everything and lets just say 4K on 55" is stupid, even on 65" it's silly, 84" starts to make more sense, and 4K projectors make a lot more sense. And then there's ideal sitting distance.

Curved displays are also stupid under 84" might I add.

You're not at fault anyone could fall for that but fact is that, a 55" 4K TV is very hard to justify right now, advantages are non-existing, 4K implementation is incomplete and so we're left with quite a few disadvantages (like lag).

On top of it all purists hate the fact they added so much processing on top. The thing is 3840x2160, scaling could be nearest neighbor and fast as hell, 1920x2=3840, 1080x2=2160, and even 720p who is a bitch to scale in a 50% extra pixels ratio to 1080p here is 1280x3=3840 and 720x3=2160 (720p perfect scaling ability is theoretically one of 2160p best advantages).... But they managed to cripple it and/or not be able to show a checkerboard pattern properly even be it on 720p and 1080p, and in this case non-defeatable sharpening.

That'll drive me mad, just like dynamic modes being used out of dynamic mode, cheats and stuff I didn't ask for that I get no choice of turning off.

Evolution will go on, and judging for the massive drop in quality seen in 2014 2K panels, it'll be like when the 32" class ceased having good panels a few years back (I imagine next in line are the 42 inchers, 55" is the new 42", as 42" were the new 32"), they're taking their best panels and improvements somewhere else. It's a pity that due to 4K plasma dismissal came 1/2 years earlier and that means top range effectively dropped quality this year despite efforts being made to advance LCD again (last year it was pretty much only Sony attempting it).

Still it has a roof.
is there a better alternative in terms of gaming?
A few, like Sony KDL-55W800B
I'm willing to spend up to that price, which was around $1850, I might as well maximize what I primarily want to use it for. I figured I'd want it for 7-8 years, that's why I was leaning more toward 4K just so I had that down that line. But I'm relatively open, as long as it's big improvements over my current one - which is a 7-8 year old 1080p Samsung.
Oh, you will.

LCD evolved a lot in the last 7-8 years, no way that TV can compare with any modern VA-panel for instance, color reproduction improved too.
The Evo kits for the 1st and higher end 2nd gen sets use the One Connect box. The current replacement for 1st gen models adds HDMI 2.0(lite), HDCP 2.2, HEVC and apps like Netflix 4K. Future versions should be capable of providing full HDMI capabilities. It's pricey at $400 but it could be worth it every few years if Samsung keeps supporting it.
What about input lag? Has it ever changed with evo kits?

Do you know if they dropped the forced sharpening setting via update or further evo kit?

I've been too lazy to research and you seem to be in the know.

But yeah, too expensive, and doesn't really change my mind.

Top range Sony TV's and Panasonic AX800 use panels who are advances over last years LCD's, it's a pity they don't have cheaper 2K variants IMO, but it's clearly as intended. These Samsungs though... are nothing more than a 2K panel now with 4K, it's not even the scenario of "I had to go for this to get a quality panel" even if it's not bad.

Evo kits are a great idea, it's just the pricing that's nuts.
 
I am having a problem connecting my Denon x2100 to my F8500. I am tying to connect 4 components to my dnon and then use 2 HDMI out to the tv. This way I can use one as a movie/tv and the other as a console setting.

Once I try to use two, I can no longer select the xbox's and sometimes the ps4. They will show for a second and then the screen goes black.

Could be an HDMI CEC "Control" conflict since they're plugged into the same TV. You could try turning off the option (they all name it something different) on both the TV and AVR.
 
Yes, all 4 are on too
I meant powered on, sorry.
Any thoughts on the F5300 Samsung plasma? Specifically the 51 inch? Doesn't have the pentile screen like the 60" model. Might be a good bang for the buck, especially for a light controlled bedroom. Some good user reports, some red/pink push but seems to be isolated towards the pentile screen.
Should be good, last years mid range Samsung plasmas were good and even that pentile one is not horrible considering the cost.

Input lag is good, image quality is good, it's not a bad choice. Of course F8500 is a crown jewel, it's a pity H7000 (a cheaper F8500) never came to be.
 
I meant powered on, sorry.Should be good, last years mid range Samsung plasmas were good and even that pentile one is not horrible.

They have a relatively new pentile 64 inch, H5000, that got a pretty good review over at hdtvtest. Didn't see it at my local BB though.
 
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