Support NeoGAF

[JavelinRobin]

Might as well do a general post here...

Everyone can play the game how they want and everyone definitely should be able to voice their opinion on the aspects of the game. Nothing wrong with that. Didn't mean to stir up some shit. Didn't mean to be an ass.

 

[SoldnerKei]

Anyone watching the Hyrule direct tonight?

I am, it's like the first Nintendo Direct I will able to watch live in like a whole year lol

totally expecting Ganondorf to be revealed for Zelda Musou and later for Smash as POTD Veteran P:

 

[Makai]

My friend insists short-hopping is a glitch.

 

[Revven]

I think the worst conceit one could make is thinking that people who prefer melee think that melee is the end all be all of competitive smash. This couldn't be further from the truth. People want a new game, but also want it retain more of the speed and offensive nature of melee.

This is what I keep preaching and saying but nobody really ever seems to remember it. :\

 

[Moonlight]

There's this other bizarre Paradox where both sides of the Competiv/Casual coin need to speak their mind as if they're the proper ones.

I'm not seeing how this is a paradox.

The problem is that people are seeing divisions where there are none. Asking for movement to feel better or spending less time stuck to the ground doing nothing isn't stuff that locks out casual players or anything. It's a flat adjustment to the game that could make it feel better to physically play.

If it sounds like I think I'm right, of course I think I'm right. That's my opinion, it'd be a paradox if I thought I wasn't.

 

[Ahnez]

Anyone watching the Hyrule direct tonight?

Yep, I want to see more sheik

 

[JoeInky]

Let me know if this is somehow not allowed.

 

[Hatchtag]

Anyone watching the Hyrule direct tonight?

I'll probably tune in even though I'm not too interested in the game (I most likely won't own a Wii U till Smash 4 is out).

 

[Makai]

2008 is over.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

I'm not claiming to be competitive, or claiming being casual means you're misinformed. However, I am saying that it's harder to immediately understand how an item is beneficial in Brawl than it is in Melee, and for that reason, I think Melee's the better game for casual, items-on play.

Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted. I think you're right that items are a little more complex in Brawl, and I think that's something Brawl has over Melee. It gives the item game more depth and, I think, makes playing with items more fun. In that respect, Melee's only better for "casual, items-on play" if by "casual" you mean (referencing emb's post,) the kind of player who picks Smash up once in a while but isn't interested enough to spend a lot of time learning the game. In other words, I making the same argument that many people make about movement options, except I'm talking about items, and I prefer Brawl to Melee.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

If Ganondorf is revealed in the direct, I don't expect any major like a trailer. Maybe a small drive-by mention with an official render.

Spoiler

Or maybe if I pray hard enough to the goddess Palutena, they'll tease Ganondorf having 12 special moves a la Mii fighters and Palutena

 

[Moonlight]

Yep, I want to see more sheik

I really hope we see another weapon type for Sheik. I am really not feeling the harp and kunai.

 

[Lunar15]

I would not expect anything smash related in the HW direct.

If anything, Sakurai would reveal something like Ganondorf as tomorrow's POTD.

However, I think he's saving that to closer to the actual release of the game.

 

[JoeInky]

We need terms to separate the casual player who plays a lot but with items on and the casual player who knows nothing and only plays a couple of times a month.

casual and ultra casual HD remix, that can confuse noone.

 

[Kyzon]

My friend insists short-hopping is a glitch.

You don't need those kinds of friends in your life.

 

[JoeInky]

If the Hyrule Warriors direct has the Ganondorf reveal trailer in it (for HW), I can see Sakurai revealing Ganondorf in the potd 2 hours later.

 

[OricWindstar]

If Ganondorf is revealed in the direct, I don't expect any major like a trailer. Maybe a small drive-by mention with an official render.

Spoiler

Or maybe if I pray hard enough to the goddess Palutena, they'll tease Ganondorf having 9 special moves a la Mii fighters and Palutena

Would make up for 2 games with no real move set!

Spoiler

I kid, I kid

 

[JoeInky]

Ridley -> Fan Art Spam -> casual/competitive debate -> Ganondorf does/doesn't need a new moveset -> ... -> Ridley

 

[Lunar15]

Let me know if this is somehow not allowed.

The main counterpoint to his argument is that, despite being what he calls a "more advanced game", Melee clearly did not turn people away from the series: Melee's popularity caused it's successor to surpass it in sales.

 

[SoldnerKei]

My friend insists short-hopping is a glitch.

well, you can do Short-hops in KOFXIII

they could be complaining about a bunch of other stuff in smash that people as called a "glitch" like *whisper*

Spoiler

wavedash

ok, no

 

[Hatchtag]

If Ganondorf is revealed in the direct, I don't expect any major like a trailer. Maybe a small drive-by mention with an official render.

Spoiler

Or maybe if I pray hard enough to the goddess Palutena, they'll tease Ganondorf having 9 special moves a la Mii fighters and Palutena

If 4 of those moves are his Melee moveset, and two of them are the Project M/Brawl side b/up b, I would be so damn happy.

Sidenote, we really need to see if Captain Falcon and Ganondorf will get their second jump back after their down-b's already. That shit ruined them in Brawl.

Ridley -> Fan Art Spam -> casual/competitive debate -> Ganondorf does/doesn't need a new moveset -> ... -> Ridley

don't forget the pokemon starter debate interlude we have every once in a while.

 

[Kyzon]

Thing

That's kinda depressing to read actually. It's basically saying, "I want to make a game for everyone, to everyone's liking.... except those guys. Fuck them. I regret making the game that they enjoyed."

 

[Moonlight]

I have a deep confession to make

i'm really bad at short-hops

 

[JoeInky]

The main counterpoint to his argument is that, despite being a "more advanced game", Melee clearly did not turn people away from the series: Melee's popularity caused it's successor to surpass it in sales.

I think if his line of thinking actually had anything to it, Brawl would have done closer to Mario Kart numbers rather than sell only 5 million more on a console that had a 5 times larger install base, the casual playerbase on the wii clearly didn't eat it up as much as he suggests.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

If the Hyrule Warriors direct has the Ganondorf reveal trailer in it (for HW), I can see Sakurai revealing Ganondorf in the potd 2 hours later.

Why would Ganondorf have a reveal trailer?

 

[Lunar15]

I have a deep confession to make

i'm really bad at short-hops

I'm bad at most things.

 

[JoeInky]

That's kinda depressing to read actually. It's basically saying, "I want to make a game for everyone, to everyone's liking.... except those guys. Fuck them. I regret making the game that they enjoyed."

I'd rather just Sakurai never even mention competitive stuff in his columns and interviews and what not, he always comes across badly or uninformed.

 

[SoldnerKei]

Sidenote, we really need to see if Captain Falcon and Ganondorf will get their second jump back after their down-b's already. That shit ruined them in Brawl.

I doubt they will, I miss it too... thou I would like to see more differences between those two first

and Ganon having 9 specials could be a pretty good idea to finally have dorf with a Sword but still keeping his usual specials to mix them up

 

[SmithnCo]

Why would Ganondorf have a reveal trailer?

For HW

 

[Hatchtag]

I think if his line of thinking actually had anything to it, Brawl would have done closer to Mario Kart numbers rather than sell only 5 million more on a console that had a 5 times larger install base, the casual playerbase on the wii clearly didn't eat it up as much as he suggests.

I thought Brawl sold roughly 12 mil and is the best selling fighting game of all time next to street fighter 2, with street fighter 2 having to count several different editions to beat it? http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wii.html

 

[Kyzon]

I have a deep confession to make

i'm really bad at short-hops

May as well give everyone only full hops then. Someone isn't good at one mechanic that's been in the other games.

 

[JoeInky]

Why would Ganondorf have a reveal trailer?

He's pretty obviously going to be playable in Hyrule Warriors and he's been teased a few times, I'd be really surprised if they didn't reveal him in HW in the HW direct.

 

[OricWindstar]

That's kinda depressing to read actually. It's basically saying, "I want to make a game for everyone, to everyone's liking.... except those guys. Fuck them. I regret making the game that they enjoyed."

That's not what I read at all. I don't think he regrets making a game because a certain group of people liked it, but because he feels a certain group wasn't able to enjoy it on the same level as these "pro players." Whether that's true or not is up for debate, but I don't think he hates competitive players as much as the community likes to think. He's just very adamant in making a game for everyone, including the people who don't jump on forums to talk about Smash.

I agree with what others have said. I played Melee when I was pretty young and never felt it to be too complicated to get the hang of. It's unfortunate Sakurai sees it that way, but I see where he's coming from.

EDIT: Also, unrelated, but I really like your avatar. Is that unused Ganondorf artwork for Ages/Seasons or something?

 

[ec0ec0]

about that image from 10 pages ago:

all (12) points + all my future points for banjo-kazooie... i am sad now.

 

[Makai]

If 4 of those moves are his Melee moveset, and two of them are the Project M/Brawl side b/up b, I would be so damn happy.

Sidenote, we really need to see if Captain Falcon and Ganondorf will get their second jump back after their down-b's already. That shit ruined them in Brawl.

More important, we need confirmation that justice has been done to The Knee.

 

[Ahnez]

I have a deep confession to make

i'm really bad at short-hops

Control config should allow a short hop button.

Theres always more than 1 jump button.. why not make the other one actually useful?

 

[afoni]

what time in gmt is the direct?

i want to see the vaati reveal

 

[GenG3000]

Let me know if this is somehow not allowed.

And where does this come from? Is from his Famitsu column?

 

[Kyzon]

I'd rather just Sakurai never even mention competitive stuff in his columns and interviews and what not, he always comes across badly or uninformed.

Yeah, this. I honestly want to know what he felt at the invitational. Seeing people play his game in a competitive setting. Like, did it make his blood boil? Was he sitting in the back and thinking about how it's not bad to also try to cater to them?

 

[IntelliHeath]

Anyone watching the Hyrule direct tonight?

For Hyrule Warrior itself, and I don't really expect anything Smash related.

That's kinda depressing to read actually. It's basically saying, "I want to make a game for everyone, to everyone's liking.... except those guys. Fuck them. I regret making the game that they enjoyed."

I'm fine with whatever the final product would be.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

That's kinda depressing to read actually. It's basically saying, "I want to make a game for everyone, to everyone's liking.... except those guys. Fuck them. I regret making the game that they enjoyed."

There's a difference between wanting to make a game for everyone, as Sakurai does, and wanting to make a game for everyone but hardcore players. Sakurai is saying he regrets Melee because it was difficult to appeal to less avid gamers, not because competitive players liked it. Interpreting it any other way is looking to be victimized when you aren't. Aiming for a game that is "wide but deep" should make his intentions pretty clear.

 

[Moonlight]

Control config should allow a short hop button.

Theres always more than 1 jump button.. why not make the other one actually useful?

I would like this.

Spoiler

although i'd have to unlearn tap-jump

I'm bad at most things.

Aww.

You've got good taste, at least!

 

[JoeInky]

I thought Brawl sold roughly 12 mil and is the best selling fighting game of all time next to street fighter 2, with street fighter 2 having to count several different editions to beat it? http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wii.html

I would have thought it would have sold closer to 20 million like the other casual games if Brawl was meant to be more appealing to the fanbase.

The series went from 5 mil. to 7 mil. to 12 mil. I would have thought the jump would have been bigger considering the install base if Sakurai was generally concerned with making the game better for people who aren't used to videogames.

 

[IntelliHeath]

If the Hyrule Warriors direct has the Ganondorf reveal trailer in it (for HW), I can see Sakurai revealing Ganondorf in the potd 2 hours later.

I can't really see that yet but I would imagine that Ganondorf might be revealed on Japanese release date.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

what time in gmt is the direct?

i want to see the vaati reveal

3AM

 

[JoeInky]

what time in gmt is the direct?

i want to see the vaati reveal

It's 6am, also known as "fuck that" O'clock.

E: Oh it's apparently 3am, even worse.

 

[PadWarrior]

I'm on the fence about hw so I'm really curious about this direct. Never been a big zelda fan wind waker is my first zelda game.

 

[Kyzon]

That's not what I read at all. I don't think he regrets making a game because a certain group of people liked it, but because he feels a certain group wasn't able to enjoy it on the same level as these "pro players." Whether that's true or not is up for debate, but I don't think he hates competitive players as much as the community likes to think. He's just very adamant in making a game for everyone, including the people who don't jump on forums to talk about Smash.

I agree with what others have said. I played Melee when I was pretty young and never felt it to be too complicated to get the hang of. It's unfortunate Sakurai sees it that way, but I see where he's coming from.

EDIT: Also, unrelated, but I really like your avatar. Is that unused Ganondorf artwork for Ages/Seasons or something?

I think that's a terrible philosophy to have. Should Mario levels be re-designed without those who never let go of the run button in mind? Should all of the expertly placed enemies and platforms be moved into locations that don't encourage you to speed run through the level if you dare? No. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Same with having a game that both competitive and less competitive groups can enjoy.

It's.... just ugh. Disappointing.

Fake Edit: I don't mean terrible philosophy from you btw. From Sakurai.

 

[Hatchtag]

I doubt they will, I miss it too... thou I would like to see more differences between those two first

and Ganon having 9 specials could be a pretty good idea to finally have dorf with a Sword but still keeping his usual specials to mix them up

I'm hopeful, actually. They've buffed characters from Brawl a lot, I'd hope they buff the absolute worst.

I'm really resistant to sword Ganon, being that I main him, but really, if they gave us it as custom moves, most of his standards could stay the same. Almost all of his aerials are kicks, so they could stay, and the forward air could easily work the same with a sword animation. The ground moves are also largely kicks, so those could stay, and just his jab, running attack and side smash would have to change.

 

[OricWindstar]

I'm on the fence about hw so I'm really curious about this direct. Never been a bug zelda fan wind waker is my first zelda game.

So you must hate that the beetle from Skyward Sword is in.