Blackstarhat
Member
I feel the same way
Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart
- Thread starter JohnDoe
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I feel the same way
Prototype Viktor
Member
that's not the same man! half of those people just have their hands near the trigger, the guy in the op probably tongue kissing the toy gun
out0v0rder
Member
Just shoot first, sort it out later. Who cares if you are supposed to be held to a higher standard than normal citizens.
That's crappy but no need to as crappy as that dude.
But on the second sentence, yepp I know that.
Didn't think about it but according to my brother I always speak more softly and in a higher pitch when I speak to white people. Like I was trying my best not to scare them....To be honest this might be true as I have always been of a well built stature(now I'm just fat) and for some fucked up reason people where always afraid of me.
A.D. Skinner
Member
Unprofessional power loving cops*
Definitely, and when the story first broke a few people were blaming the RTA route from Dayton to Beavercreek as the cause of this. Racist assholes. He came on a car from Cincy anyway, so that argument died down.
Edit: There was also some confusion locally at first at to what happened. The original news during the day was simply "Shots fired at Beavercreek Wal-Mart." We didn't know only the cops fired shots. I assumed there was a civilian gunman, as did others, so people were quick to blame outsiders. Now that we know the cop killed someone, it gets waaaay more dicey.
What standard business practice? Cite some Ohio law purporting to rely upon this "standard business practice" you're purporting to rely on when trying to charge this guy with stealing he BB/pellet gun. Cite some Ohio law standing for the proposition that this man's behavior created a presumption that he stole the BB/pellet gun.
Why are you trying to dig up some felony, any felony that this guy's behavior could conceivably fall under if you dig deep and hard enough?
This is a misdemeanor.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Every piece of information is potentially valuable but that's not even an eyewitness, it's an earwitness.
It shouldn't be discluded but I'd want to have more evidence than that before jumping to conclusions.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Is it true he was pointing the toy gun at people?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Don't do this..
No no no, first of all I saw your statement responding to the words toy gun. You said you would do what you posted you were going to do.
Of course you reply to yes. The fact that you'd sue someone for pointing and waving a toy gun around in your face or anywhere near you knowing that it is a toy gun is ridiculous. You seem like the kind of person who would sue a person that bumped in to you accidentally in a store. That's pretty pathetic.
Wow, now you're just shitting a thread about a man's death.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'm sorry to hear that. A lot of people don't know how to give compliments or give backhanded ones.
Next time someone says something like that, inform them of where they can shove their head where the sun don't shine. Or show them the way to Stormfront and tell me to write it down instead of bothering you.
Seriously, what kind of fucking compliment is that?!
According to some witnesses, though it's more likely that he was waving it around while on the phone, not actually holding people at gun point.
BronsonLee
Member
That seems to have happened because of the cops shooting him, and in her attempt to escape she suffered a heart attack.
We don't know about the pointing the gun thing.
I, always, hate racist scum.
Blackstarhat
Member
I would have punched that cracka in the face.
Dude Abides
Banned
Or Wal-Mart could just release it.
BronsonLee
Member
They have no reason to do that, though.
Yeah that'd be swell, but there's no way in hell they're doing that
hehe, let me tell you.
On two occasions I tried talking to the skinheads I encountered. Well this was a time when I was well trained so just my physical stature ensured my safety if they did not wish to have things broken(plus fucked up reputation I had helped as well).
After talking to a few of them I got a compliment I will never forget
to stunned to even be mad.
Forward a few years and nearly a identical situation but this time I at least responded and told them I thought it was really off putting to hear such a word. Chick just stared at me and mumbled sorry and left.
Yepp she died because the cops started shooting.
Big Baybee
Member
I need to see video of him pointing it and adults and children. I don't believe that shit at all. People saw a black dude with a gun and got scared. Also we pretty much know he didn't fucking aim it at the cops since he knew it was a fake gun. This bullshit has to stop.
Dude Abides
Banned
They might if they want to show the public it had nothing to do with their employees or policies.
I don't think you should say things like that.
I'd like to see public reaction of black adults carrying legal fire arms in open-carry states similar to the photos of white gun owners. Perhaps make the black men wear baggy clothing, wife beaters and doo rags. Top it off with some gaudy jewelry. Is it crazy to say that might be effective way to increase gun regulations?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
A fake gun makes noises or shoots water, not projectiles that can break skin.
TheChocolateWar
Member
Even a toy gun. If a guy runs up to me and threatens me with a toy gun, I will sue him. No one has a right to threaten me with a toy gun.
Give me a few days to reply to this one. I want to do some legitimate research on Ohio scope of consent law for tort defenses.
But anyway, I do not see why proof of the presumption is necessary, given he would still satisfy the underlying elements of the Ohio theft statute, or at least survive appellate review.
Was going for a three strikes argument. Currently seeing if you can have the three strikes run consecutively or not. Again, need time for that one.
It is really, really, really not in their best interest to do that right now.
It's nice that we can have this sort of discourse.
BronsonLee
Member
There's nothing in the article or anything that would bring that up. A shopper called the police, the police came in and shot him. I'd prefer to get as much information as possible, but I don't think they'll be doing that.
This actually worked during the Black Panther era.
ErnieMcCracken
Member
No. Pretty sure that would lead to an increased body count of innocent black men being shot by police.
Dude Abides
Banned
They probably won't, but the point is a subpoena isn't the only way we might see the footage. If it becomes a PR issue for them or for general ass-covering purposes they may want to show it was not their responsibility and release the footage.
Have you sued any forum goers or mods for banning yet?
CrimsonCommie
Member
A man lost his life because he was a black man carrying a BB gun and you decide to have fun by trolling the discussion of it?
Gentleman Jack
Member
I've started to add 'because he's black' and 'when he's black' to the ends of his sentences make more sense of TheChocolateWar's posts.
NobleGundam
Banned
Just seeing these news about ppl, even kids, holding toy guns get killed by cops is horrible.
TheChocolateWar
Member
I am not attempting to troll a discussion. I am not claiming that the man did any of the things that are being claimed about him. I am merely explaining the possible legal consequences of what both sides are claiming. I discussed the claims the man's estate could have against the couple who called the cops, as well as whether or not the people could have been legally justified in calling the cops. I do not know what happened, as I stated earlier. I do not know who was criminal or negligent. I am trying to bring a middle ground to the discussion, and encourage people to talk about both sides of the coin. If all is true as stated by many posters, this is a terrifying display of police brutality. If all is true as claimed by the other half of the posters, this man committed crimes that could result in self-defense. I do not know.
speculawyer
Member
Like this?
The above action caused Saint Ronald Reagan to sign gun control laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
WTF is this bullshit?
And WTF is with people calling for bans on guns when you have a police force that likes to shoot first and ask questions later.. and you want them to be the only people allowed to carry?
GalacticAE
Member
Big Baybee
Member
I've seen YouTube vids of blacks trying to open carry and being arrested or detained to walking down the street with a gun on their hip or back. I do not want to a see more attempt this, because I'm pretty sure more than a few would be shot. Getting yourself killed to prove a point we all know is not what I want.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Where's Chuck D and Terminator X in that picture???
I think if anyone wants to ban guns it would be including banning the police from using them.
But considering how easy it still would be for criminals to smuggle guns into your country, such a thing will never truly work. Your society is just fucked when it comes to guns and you're going to be dealing with this awful shit for a long time.
You can't just say that without looking at how the Ohio appellate courts have interpreted the larceny statute, which contains an element of intent. Even if he exceeded whatever scope of express or implied consent Wal-Mart granted him, he still had to intend to deprive Wal-Mart of its property.
What? As someone who is white a can safely say: fuck white people. The police force shouldn't have access to guns as the do just like the average American sure as fuck shouldn't be able to buy a pistol. FUCK gun people and their "culture".
Honestly, Walmart should be more discrete in how they sell those items. Require that they are boxed after the customer purchases it to ensure something like this does not happen. And for fuck's sake if they just put it out on the shelf to be carried around like that (I have no idea if this is the case) that would be especially stupid, but nothing surprises me anymore. If they do that, however, they should be placed behind the counter for an associate to show them. Because of all the mass shootings in this country, and the subsequent fear and anxiety it makes so many of us feel, it is only common sense to enforce such a policy and ensure all stores follow it to the letter.
Also, while it isn't smart in any case, no matter who you are, to point something that looks like a real gun at others -- do you realize how dumb it also is to walk into a store, as a group, with real automatic rifles and pistols, even if you aren't necessarily waving them around? If a group of black men walking into a Target or Starbucks in Anytown USA did that, do you think they'd be just as likely as a group of (primarily) white men doing it and then living to tell about it as we've seen? I find this highly unlikely.
Also, while it isn't smart in any case, no matter who you are, to point something that looks like a real gun at others -- do you realize how dumb it also is to walk into a store, as a group, with real automatic rifles and pistols, even if you aren't necessarily waving them around? If a group of black men walking into a Target or Starbucks in Anytown USA did that, do you think they'd be just as likely as a group of (primarily) white men doing it and then living to tell about it as we've seen? I find this highly unlikely.
Whenever something like this happens it always amazes me that amidst all the chaos going on that night the police were able to give this guy his day in court.
Unless it comes out that the victim had an inoperable brain tumor and decided to commit suicide by cop I'm calling shenanigans.
Unless it comes out that the victim had an inoperable brain tumor and decided to commit suicide by cop I'm calling shenanigans.
TheChocolateWar
Member
Aye, I checked out the standard of appellate review for the criminal court of appeals in Ohio before making that statement, and discussed the standard a few pages back; similar standard as a judgment notwithstanding the verdict. They give great deference in Ohio to the jury's decision on evidence, and only a finding that a reasonable fact finder could not have found the existence of the element would have allowed a reversal on evidentiary grounds. Then I discussed how the evidence, as suggested by other posters, can give rise to a reasonable inference of intent to deprive. Personally, I think the evidence is weak. But it would definitely survive a motion for a judgment not withstanding the verdict.
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