Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart

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Are there any other reports from witnesses that he wad pointing the gun at them?

When the couple knew that it was only a "toy gun" afterwards and that they made a big mistake, saying that he pointed the gun a people is a good way to justify their call and cover up their mistake.
 
It's really something special that the "this isn't a black/white" issue force has come out in droves to downplay this tragedy. What's your fucking point? It's the same shit every fucking time.

#notallcops

#notallmen

#notalwaysracist

Yes, it's not always a black and white issue. However, given the accepted discrimination against black people in this country, it's more likely than not that it's very much a racial issue.

Why do some of you guys feel the need to shit up the thread with this same tired crap every fucking time? People can't even talk about it, because there ends up being a string of responses to the idiot posts that do this. I'm guilty of it myself. Is it an attention thing? I don't understand.
 
Valnen said:
Really? That's really reaching. Adults "play" too. The word isn't kid exclusive.
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Adults have become more childlike in recent times, "real" adulthood is increasingly delayed, marriage age keeps climbing, etc. Not seeing the reason for confusion.
 
TAJ said:
Adults have become more childlike in recent times, "real" adulthood is increasingly delayed, etc. Not seeing the reason for confusion.
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There is no such thing as "real" adulthood. I'm sorry you've been lead to believe otherwise.
 
TAJ said:
And a baseball bat can kill a person. It's still a kids toy.
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O RLY?

The manufacturer doesn't advertise it as a toy.

http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=3136

ROCHESTER, New York, (January 15, 2013) –Crosman Corporation, long known for innovation and quality in the shooting sports, has introduced the new, MK-177™ multi-pump, bolt action, .177 caliber BB/pellet air rifle. The dual ammo MK-177 features new, Crosman® valve technology providing increased velocities with less effort.

“People want airguns that are uncomplicated, powerful and swift,” says Crosman Product Manager, Tom Clark. “The valve revolutionizes ease of pumping with the added benefit of providing impressive speed. Simply put, the new, MK-177 air rifle offers less work and more fun,” he said.

The MK-177 is light, maneuverable and features all-weather construction with a rifled steel barrel for added accuracy. Its fully adjustable sights and velocities of up to 800 fps with BBs and up to 750 fps with pellets make it an ideal multi-use air rifle. Pump the gun three times for indoor target practice or up to ten times to achieve higher velocity for outdoor shooting and pest control. The MK-177 is fed by a 5-shot pellet clip, or pour up to 300+ BBs into the internal magazine. Every time you pull back the ergonomic bolt handle and push it forward, another BB loads. It has a full Picatinny rail on top for your choice of optics and side rails for additional accessories. “Customize this airgun with all your favorite accessories,” says Clark. “Extra storage areas are found under the rubber recoil pad,” he said.

The MK-177 is assembled in the USA and is available in black or tan. A kit version includes a red dot sight, soft-sided case, 2 pellet clips, BBs, pellets and shooting glasses.

The MK-177 has an MSRP of $129, while the kit version retails for $179. Retail availability is expected in June, 2013.
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750-800 fps is more than double the velocity of your typical Airsoft "toy" gun.

Like I said though, arguing about the definition of what he was carrying is moot. He wasn't doing anything illegal.
 
Toxi said:
Would you consider a baseball bat a toy?

"Yeah, I forgot, all my neon colored nerf bats killed people growing up:"
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In the end these toys are made to look like real guns, making it easily confusable for a real gun. For both racists and non racists.


Clockwork said:
O RLY?

The manufacturer doesn't advertise it as a toy.

http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=3136


750-800 fps is more than double the velocity of your typical Airsoft "toy" gun.

Like I said though, arguing about the definition of what he was carrying is moot. He wasn't doing anything illegal.
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Hhaha, work blocked that link due to the following reasons: ( Online Shopping, Weapons )
 
ramuh said:
And their stupid ass need to face SEVERE charges for this. Stupid Pieces of Shit.
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They will not though. The sad truth is no will most likely face charges over this. Their is already precedent set in a similar situation.


I talked about this early in the thread but, this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/andy-lopez_n_4152819.html 13 year old kid was killed in a similar situation in california and the cop got off without charges. That case took for ever to resolve also. The incident happened last october but, it was not until july that the family found out no charges would be brought against the cop.
 
So sad that events like this happen. Black male buys a gun and is most likely examining it while still inside the store. White family walks by and while maybe not racist they see the stereotypical black male "waving" around this gun at all the customers and the little kids. The police eventually rush into the scene and begin to yell at the startled black male who doesn't know how to react and eventually takes two bullets to the body before eventually dying.
 
Darren870 said:
In the end these toys are made to look like real guns, making it easily confusable for a real gun. For both racists and non racists.
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Which brings us back to the other customers being unconcerned. Surely if they thought there was a black guy in their cozy white neighborhood with a real assault rifle and he was actually waving it at them they would be nervous?

Valnen said:
There is no such thing as "real" adulthood. I'm sorry you've been lead to believe otherwise.
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That's why I put it in quotes. But I'm sure (significantly) older generations would disagree.
 
Darren870 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/u...gun-replicas-dangers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/andy-lopez_n_4152819.html

And in case you don't consider latinos white then here is one from 6 days ago:

http://www.9news.com/story/news/loc...ecurity-guard-air-soft-gun-shooting/13521583/

Its not always a black/white issue...

---

I'd rather see the news talk about these guns and how they look too realistic and how they are considered "toys".

However, that isn't how the news works. If a black man is killed holding one then its due to racial issues. If its a white or latino THEN it seems to be more about how these guns look too realistic.
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You seem to be semi knowledgeable about these sorts of incidents.

Out of curiousity, how frequently does this kind of thing happen in Canada? That is, someone being shot and killed because their toy gun seemed like a real one to police.
 
Clockwork said:
O RLY?

The manufacturer doesn't advertise it as a toy.

http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=3136
Click to expand...
Yes really, a baseball bat is a toy.

How the manufacturer advertises their product has no bearing on whether it's a toy or not. The Xbox One is also not advertised as a toy, even though that's exactly what it is.
Darren870 said:
Hhaha, work blocked that link due to the following reasons: ( Online Shopping, Weapons )
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Good luck ordering sex toys from your work.
 
Jmanunknown said:
They will not though. The sad truth is no will face charges over this. Their is already precedent set in a similar situation.


I talked about this early in the thread but, this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/andy-lopez_n_4152819.html 13 year old kid was killed in a similar situation in california and the cop got off without charges. That case took for ever to resolve also. The incident happened last october but, it was not until july that the family found out no charges would be brought against the cop.
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"Authorities called the incident "a tragedy," but said that officers could not tell the weapon was fake or that Lopez was a boy, and that they feared for their safety."

Lol, now there's a familiar racist theme.
 
Earthstrike said:
You seem to be semi knowledgeable about these sorts of incidents.

Out of curiousity, how frequently does this kind of thing happen in Canada? That is, someone being shot and killed because their toy gun seemed like a real one to police.
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Probably not as much because the guns have to be clear and visible. The ones that look like a firearm, are considered a firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#Canada

Also Canada doesn't even have the same kind of gun laws as the US. You can't really compare the two.

Edit: Listen, I think its wrong someone was killed. Trust me I do. If he was waving the gun around or not it doesn't mean he deserved to lose his life. I just think that its ridiculous that these guns are sold they way they are. Even the orange tips most paint over them. My brother had them growing up and I thought it was crazy that my mom even bought it for them. They aren't easily identifiable as toys, especially at a distance and with adrenaline pumping.

Toxi said:
Good luck ordering sex toys from your work.
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I know, can't wait to go home and beat my missus with my rubber fist!
 
Toxi said:
Yes really, a baseball bat is a toy.

How the manufacturer advertises their product has no bearing on whether it's a toy or not. The Xbox One is also not advertised as a toy.
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You were making a correlation between the air rifle being a toy and a baseball bat being a toy even if both can be used as weapons.

In any case (since 1992 in the US) toy guns are required to have an orange plug or be entirely brightly colored to signify them as toys.

If you go to the Crosman website ( http://www.crosman.com/ ) you will notice two distinct things:

1) Their "Airsoft" line all have orange tips
2) Their standard air rifles (like this model) don't.

Do you know why? Because one is classified as a toy and one is not.
 
Clockwork said:
You were making a correlation between the air rifle being a toy and a baseball bat being a toy even if both can be used as weapons.

In any case (since 1992 in the US) toy guns are required to have an orange plug or be entirely brightly colored to signify them as toys.

If you go to the Crosman website ( http://www.crosman.com/ ) you will notice two distinct things:

1) Their "Airsoft" line all have orange tips
2) Their standard air rifles (like this model) don't.

Do you know why? Because one is classified as a toy and one is not.
Click to expand...

Yes. Because pellet gun manufacturers had better lobbyists. Not joking.
 
Clockwork said:
You were making a correlation between the air rifle being a toy and a baseball bat being a toy even if both can be used as weapons.

In any case (since 1992 in the US) toy guns are required to have an orange plug or be entirely brightly colored to signify them as toys.

If you go to the Crosman website ( http://www.crosman.com/ ) you will notice two distinct things:

1) Their "Airsoft" line all have orange tips
2) Their standard air rifles (like this model) don't.

Do you know why? Because one is classified as a toy and one is not.
Click to expand...

You might want to check out the law. The orange cap is not actually required for the Airsoft line. The law doesn't distinguish between them and the "standard air rifles". Neither is classified as a toy more than the other.

This part applies to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms (“devices”) having the appearance, shape, and/or configuration of a firearm and produced or manufactured and entered into commerce on or after May 5, 1989, including devices modelled on real firearms manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898. This part does not apply to:

(a) Non-firing collector replica antique firearms, which look authentic and may be a scale model but are not intended as toys modelled on real firearms designed, manufactured, and produced prior to 1898;

(b) Traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of compressed air, compressed gas or mechanical spring action, or any combination thereof, as described in American Society for Testing and Materials standard F 589-85, Standard Consumer Safety Specification for Non-Powder Guns, June 28, 1985. This incorporation by reference was approved by the Director of the Federal Register in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51. Copies may be obtained from the IHS Inc., 15 Inverness Way East, Englewood, CO 80112, www.global.ihs.com, Phone: 800.854.7179 or 303.397.7956, Fax: 303.397.2740, Email: global@ihs.com. A copy is available for inspection in the Office of the Chief Counsel for NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology, Telephone: (301) 975-2803, or at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html.

(c) Decorative, ornamental, and miniature objects having the appearance, shape and/or configuration of a firearm, including those intended to be displayed on a desk or worn on bracelets, necklaces, key chains, and so on, provided that the objects measure no more than thirty-eight (38) millimeters in height by seventy (70) millimeters in length, the length measurement excluding any gun stock length measurement.
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http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=c7b9dfa1176c8b46b470823f9207f044&ty=HTML&h=L&n=15y1.2.2.8.9&r=PART

Darren870 said:
I know, can't wait to go home and beat my missus with my rubber fist!
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Glad to see someone still enjoying Hulk Hands.
 
Popnbake said:
http://www.whio.com/news/news/local/beavercreek-walmart-shooting-case-it-happened/ngxw7/

Yes and it seems he's already justified his behavior due to the end result.

From the couple's statement it sounds like the guy couldn't believe what he was hearing and turned around to see what was going on only to get fired upon by police.

He must have seemed like a real threat just ignoring potential targets and heading to the pet's department.
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wow@the couple still calling the toy a weapon.
 
Toxi said:
You might want to check out the law. The orange cap is not actually required for the Airsoft line. The law doesn't distinguish between them and the "standard air rifles".
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. Poor assumption on my part I guess.

(although there are several states that have enacted laws that require such things)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft

This would indicated to me that one is distinctly being considered as a toy and one is not. (and some countries even classify airsoft guns as firearms)

I'll drop out of this argument though. It doesn't add to the topic, which is about the senseless death of a man who did nothing wrong.
 
block tower said:
the denial that ethnicity plays a factor in these cases is always amusing.
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The assumption that people assume ethnicity always plays a roll is amusing.

I have a neighbor who is a cop in an area where an officer was very recently shot to death during a routine traffic stop. Him and I will talk the racist cop issue, and he will readily admit after interacting with police all over - that there are racist cops, but that it's not a majority. I never default to racism being a cause for police action without honestly looking at the evidence for that case.

There is evidence of this guy pointing a realistic looking pellet gun at random people resulting in a police call. Why are people refusing to take that into consideration? Getting that call, seeing that pellet gun - police are trained to make split-second decisions and it is never easy. Without evidence of racism, my knee-jerk isn't going to be to call a cop a racist and shout down anyone who doesn't fully agree hook-line-and-sinker.

Make a judgement with your brain with the evidence given.
 
biggersmaller said:
The assumption that people assume ethnicity always plays a roll is amusing.

I have a neighbor who is a cop in an area where an officer was very recently shot to death during a routine traffic stop. Him and I will talk the racist cop issue, and he will readily admit after interacting with police all over - that there are racist cops, but that it's not a majority. I never default to racism being a cause for police action without honestly looking at the evidence for that case.

There is evidence of this guy pointing a realistic looking pellet gun at random people resulting in a police call. Why are people refusing to take that into consideration. Getting that call, seeing that pellet gun - police are trained to make split-second decisions and it is never easy. Without evidence of racism, my knee-jerk isn't going to be to call a cop a racist and shout down anyone who doesn't fully agree hook-line-and-sinker.

Make a judgement with your brain with the evidence given.
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What evidence is there other than the words of these overeager witnesses who actively followed this guy around the store? How do you know they didn't make that up as an excuse after they found out the gun wasn't real? The only evidence that is going to matter is security cam footage.
 
There is also evidence that his mother was on the phone with him. The man told the police it was a toy gun. That he was shot regardless. That even after the man was killed, those "witnesses" continue to call the pellet gun a "weapon" for some odd reason. Also, that no other shoppers made a fuss about this young man.

That's evidence, too..right? Who is it that's "ignoring" things here? Point them out. I get it..race everywhere. You get tired of it..ok.
 
I have to question how fucking stupid this Marine is...the guy is holding what he thinks is a military grade weapon in one hand, and not even handling it properly. Did he even take the time to assess how this guy got his hands on a weapon like this, why he's only holding it in one hand, what the implications of recoil from the shot would be like? It never crossed his mind it might be an air gun? Are you fucking kidding me?
 
Segments of the 911 calls...

http://www.whio.com/audio/911-calls-of-beavercreek-walmart-shooting/

WARNING: 3rd clip you can hear the shots and screaming/crying... =(

This guy let his wife, who had a broken ankle riding in a mobility scooter, follow this guy? His first thought wasn't to get his wife, who is more susceptible to getting shot, our of the store?

<sarcasm>
GREAT WORK MARINE
</sarcasm>

Interesting write up about this...I'm sure I'll get flack for the URL, but the article does question the responsibility of the Beavercreek police AND Ronald Ritchie

http://bearingarms.com/walmart-airgun-death-looks-worse-every-passing-day/
 
1st off a air rifle that fires at 900 FPS is not a toy. 1100 FPS is the speed of sound. Most handgun ammo is in that speed range.

2nd if you are pointing a realistic looking rifle at people and then saying "don't worry it's a toy" idk what to tell you. You are going to get shot in America.
 
Fuck that dispatcher though.

"Looks like he was trying to load it, I don't know."

turned into

"Believes he just put some bullets inside."
 
Flo_Evans said:
Well of course...

All air rifles sold at walmart are in boxes though. Not sure why anyone would take the rifle out of the box and start playing with it in the store and not expect people to freak out.
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No one else in the store thought anything of it until an overzealous man imagined an angry black man was going to rob the store and escalated things.
 
Such a fucked up story. I have no clue how all these people finished the police training... you'd think they would have standards... apparently not.

FFS he even just picked it up in that very store. Truly sad.

What I wonder is, aren't toy guns supposed to have a orange tip to prevent that confusion?
 
CrankyJay said:
No one else in the store thought anything of it until an overzealous man imagined an angry black man was going to rob the store and escalated things.
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Not to mention the Ohio is an open carry state, so what exactly is the issue? I've seen photos of nothing but happy people walking around in stores with giant rifles, because freedom.

I open shit I'm buying all the time..I'm buying it, and I've never seen a sign in a store that says ours illegal.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
I guess that's one way to spin it...
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Read the quotes in the articles...apparently these two are proficient in mind reading and body language.

The man turned to look at them with a stare she described as if he was telling them, “don’t come near me.”
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Dehumanizing stare

I’m thinking that he is either going to rob the place or he’s there to shoot somebody else.
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How do you know?

The man looked kind of serious, Ronald Ritchie said.
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Why? Because he's black?

He didn’t really want to be looked at and when people did look at him
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Maybe because you were following him around the fucking store and you were making him uncomfortable?
 
Gordon Shumway said:
Not to mention the Ohio is an open carry state, so what exactly is the issue? I've seen photos of nothing but happy people walking around in stores with giant rifles, because freedom.

I open shit I'm buying all the time..I'm buying it, and I've never seen a sign in a store that says ours illegal.
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Oh I think you know that freedom ain't for everyone.

I wonder what would've happened if the dude was carrying a real gun and had a valid permit. If he'd been gunned down whilst exercising his god given rights, how would people have reacted?
 
anaron said:
meanwhile

km1RqVY.jpg
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I have to assume that the guns are loaded. Isn't it dangerous to go around with those in the public? I thought soldiers were told to always point them downwards and not upwards. The woman's gun is pointed upwards. What if she slips and someone gets shot because of that?

Why is this even needed in the first place? Are there bears in US supermarkets? Is this the wild west?
 
Flo_Evans said:
Well of course...

All air rifles sold at walmart are in boxes though. Not sure why anyone would take the rifle out of the box and start playing with it in the store and not expect people to freak out.
Click to expand...

But everyone told me open carry was fine for law abiding citizens.
 
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