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[mre]

Take it one further in this case: the suspect was known to not be armed.

I thought I said that. Guess I didn't make it clear enough.

The issue isn't whether the law allows for lethal force in this situation. As has been pointed out, Missouri law authorizes the police to use all necessary force to effect the detention of a "fleeing felon," (and someone who assaulted a police officer in Missouri is a felony) and provides for a rebuttable presumption that the amount of force exercised by the police officer is reasonable. I'll happily provide a citation for that if you like.

So the issue isn't whether or not Missouri law allows for lethal force in situations where someone has allegedly committed assault and is fleeing police officers. The issue is why do we authorize our police officers the discretion to exercise lethal force in situations like this (where the suspect is not known to be armed) in the first place?

Edit: Nevermind, I see your point of distinction.

 

[Mr. Patch]

It seems to be lost in the riot narrative that the police provoked the rioters. As we saw, even the initial peaceful protest was met with lines of cops and attack dogs.



Holy shit.

I've seen tweets from people in the area that they are out there in riot gear AGAIN

 

[Jado]

http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

"Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery."

Can a mod ban this guy please? I sent a similar request in the past and user was justifiably banned for using racist sources to make arguments.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108291717&postcount=166

User is quoting text found on racist websites. I asked for sources on his "blacks are violent" statistics as a way to expose him (since he would inevitably have to link to racist sites) and he went quiet.

Given the near identical language, the most likely source is "http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf" which is a "study" done by New Century Foundation, a white supremacist group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Century_Foundation

Seriously, how more transparent does he need to be?

a disproportionate amount of black on white crime occurs daily compared to white on black crime and your same "system" covers that up as well. shit goes both ways my man

 

[Omegasquash]

a disproportionate amount of black on white crime occurs daily compared to white on black crime and your same "system" covers that up as well. shit goes both ways my man

Yikes.

You're making a claim that the system covers up black on white crime here. Am I reading this right, or have I been drinking today?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

"Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery."

Lou Thesz wouldn't approve of this shit.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I'll go find a more credible source, I googled black on white crime rate and picked the first link. You'll have to forgive me, I'm juggling about 5 different conversations right now.

That's why you check your sources before you run with them. That's basic elementary school stuff or...did you not finish there?

Can a mod ban this guy please? I sent a similar request in the past and user was justifiably banned for using racist sources to make arguments.

Also funny he says that's the first thing Google gave him; I just typed in the same thing and that is nowhere near the 1st link lol.

 

[nabman]

You can tell how the cops treat black people by just watching that first video. They have them cordoned off, holding them back with machine guns and dogs while they clean up their murder.

These people should be doing more than looting. Cops should be begging for their lives.

 

[Bradlums]

That's why you check your sources before you run with them. That's basic elementary school stuff or...did you not finish there?

I was in a rush, sue me. I'll be back in a few minutes, try not to insult my intelligence too much more, I'm very fragile.

 

[Jaeger]

Yikes.

You're making a claim that the system covers up black on white crime here. Am I reading this right, or have I been drinking today?

That's why there are so many more white people in prison than black people, amirite?

 

[Siegcram]

nothing constructive to say?

Neither do you. Just go away.

 

[FeenixRising]

http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

"Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery."

white supremacist websites is the new wave on GAF now?!

I... just...

wow.

back at it =/

 

[Yaboosh]

I was in a rush, sue me. I'll be back in a few minutes, try not to insult my intelligence too much more, I'm very fragile.

Try stormfront.com

Lots of good sources there to support your viewpoint.

 

[mre]

I'll go find a more credible source, I googled black on white crime rate and picked the first link. You'll have to forgive me, I'm juggling about 5 different conversations right now.

To be fair to you, this discussion was in the thread involving the black man killed in Wal-Mart, not this one, but here's some good statistics for you on inter-racial crime:

FBI's 2012 statistics, looking only at murder involving 1 suspect and 1 victim: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2012.xls

% of white murder victims killed by blacks: ~14%
% of white murder victims killed by whites: ~84%
% of black murder victims killed by whites: ~7%
% of black murder victims killed by blacks: ~91%

Seems to me that most murders tend to be same race on same race crimes. Maybe that 14% skyrockets to 90% when you factor in all other violent crimes, but I really, really doubt it.

Each race is dramatically more likely to be killed by someone of the same race.

 

[Kurdel]

You can tell how the cops treat black people by just watching that first video. They have them cordoned off, holding them back with machine guns and dogs while they clean up their murder.

These people should be doing more than looting. Cops should be begging for their lives.

Same tactics are used to control any unpredictable crowds, for any reasons.

Like the frenzied crowd at the Bundy ranch.

 

[Omegasquash]

That's why there are so many more white people in prison than black people, amirite?

For serious. This is fucking ridiculous. I'm on team Jado for this guy.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Did you just quote a source quoting the same racist, white-power source (new century foundation) that we discussed AND discredited last night?

He was feelin' lucky on Google.

 

[Bradlums]

Alright I'm back everyone

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Not nearly as substantial as the racist study I mistakenly quoted, but if you know how to do ratios, the numbers are still there. african amerians make up less than 13% of the U.S. pop. while whites make up around 74%. anyone who can do math will realize I was completely correct in stating african americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime in this country.

and with that I bid you adieu

 

[Jaeger]

Yep. Please ban him. Especially since a precedent was set with using racist websites to further the agenda to distract the public from the outright fallacy that is our police force in it's current state.

 

[Bradlums]

Yep. Please ban him. Especially since a precedent was set with using racist websites to further the agenda to distract the public from the outright fallacy that is our police force in it's current state.

mods pls ban, am upset

 

[marrec]

mods pls ban, am upset

I don't think adieu means what you think it means.

At any rate, why exactly are we trying to prove that black people are violent?

 

[mre]

http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

"Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery."

Alright I'm back everyone

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Not nearly as substantial as the racist study I mistakenly quoted, but if you know how to do ratios, the numbers are still there.

and with that I bid you adieu

This does not support your original assertion, which involved black on white violence, at all. Your table provides no evidence of the race of the victims.

 

[Omegasquash]

I don't think adieu means what you think it means.

At any rate, why exactly are we trying to prove that black people are violent?

It's just a white blaze of glory at this point.

 

[Yaboosh]

This does not support your original assertion, which involved black on white violence, at all. Your table provides no evidence of the race of the victims.

He took a fucken sociology class. He understands systematic oppression.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

mods pls ban, am upset

Your attitude really stinks after what you just did. At least the other guy was apologetic.

 

[Siegcram]

Alright I'm back everyone

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Not nearly as substantial as the racist study I mistakenly quoted, but if you know how to do ratios, the numbers are still there.

and with that I bid you adieu

There are numbers indeed. They don't relate in any way to your statement, but I can confirm those are numbers. Good job.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Alright I'm back everyone

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Not nearly as substantial as the racist study I mistakenly quoted, but if you know how to do ratios, the numbers are still there.

and with that I bid you adieu

Before bidding us adieu, could you do the ratios please?

As I don't see how you can from that table.

 

[Camp Lo]

There are numbers there indeed. They don't relate in any way to your statement, but I can confirm those are numbers. Good job.

Second time this shit was posted. Didn't confirm shit before but here's hoping for a third time. Goddamn...

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't think adieu means what you think it means.

Lmao. Don't dismiss the cover-up of black on white crime rates..that's what shit is really all about. Do not ban, please..

 

[ab.aeterno]

These people should be doing more than looting. Cops should be begging for their lives.

What?

Always glad to see stuff like this shared, thanks for posting it. Gives some much needed perspective.

 

[User 406]

Your sarcasm is just too much for my feeble, racist brain to comprehend so I'll just ask you a simple yes or no question. Do you think these people were justified in looting and vandalizing?

Yes.


Poor black people in the ghetto have been beaten down, marginalized, cheated, robbed from, kept uneducated, imprisioned, and murdered for generations by our society. Why should they give one good god damn about a social contract that's a complete lie when it comes to them? White people protest with guns, nothing happens. Black people protest with signs, they get cuffed and booked. What else have desperate people got but lashing out? The Civil Rights Movement was over half a century ago. Fat lot of good it's doing them now.

Everyone likes to talk all loftily about non-violence, and how ignorant people are who don't subscribe to it. But the Civil Rights era was littered with race riots. It's revisionist to presume that all the pressure for social change came solely from the non-violent protest marches, as if the onus was on black people to make a convincing argument that was safe enough for the approval of white people before anything could happen, and that the Montgomery marches finally hit upon the formula that magically opened the golden door. Well, the fact is the Bobby Seales and Malcolm Xs and the justified anger they represented were a vital part of the pressure to get the white power structure to even be inclined to deal with with the non-violent part of the movement.

I know you're trying to make the distracting argument that these looters are just selfish criminals trying to do a smash and grab. Well sure, how the hell do you think that happened? They were born with no future in a place with no hope who are constantly under threat from authority no matter how they behave, people who've never had shit and never will have shit and who are constantly told that they're bad. How are they supposed to see beyond what they can get their hands on next? Things you consider to be low petty crimes are their protest, their disobedience to the rules of the oppressors, it's all they've fucking GOT. We've fucked them and stolen their shit for so long, how can we have the nerve to be shocked and outraged when they finally say fuck it and act the same way?

The argument that riots provide a convenient way to dismiss the problem by whites and therefore it's the fault of the rioters that no progress has been made is as stupid as the argument that feminism blocks progress in equal rights because the name is too excluding. There's no need to cater to the fake concerns of a group that was going to fight you tooth and nail anyway. They would find another excuse. Outrage that people behave like cornered beaten animals is sheer deflection from that fact that this is what we've driven them to. The fact is, we aren't going to have a real conversation about how to fix things with real incentive to implement the solutions without that looming threat of increased violence. And we've been sitting on it pretending the problem had gone away since Reagan got elected.

So yes, this is an anger that has run far too deep, far too wide, and far too long for you to blithely expect to be subsumed in the name of civility, or condemn in the name of personal responsibility. There will be more riots, and until we change things, it's America's fault. We are personally responsible for building a better society where entire classes of people aren't systematically abused. The riots, the vandalism, the looting, that's our collective fucking failure, and the sooner we stop deflecting that responsibility onto our victims, the better.


So shut the fuck up about how bad the rioters are, and start pointing your outrage noise tubes at the Power. You know, THE THING THAT KEEPS MURDERING BLACK KIDS.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Alright I'm back everyone

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Not nearly as substantial as the racist study I mistakenly quoted, but if you know how to do ratios, the numbers are still there.

and with that I bid you adieu

Seems like a odd statistic to hang your hat on, given how low the total amount of black-on-white crime is. It's nearly twice as high as white-on-black...but we're still talking about a total of 14%. You could say whites are six times more likely to kill another white person than a black person is likely to kill a white person.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

All I see in that FBI table is that whites commit 70% of all crime in this country, yet by some magic African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites. Was I supposed to be seeing something else?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

These people should be doing more than looting. Cops should be begging for their lives.

 

[Fularu]

a disproportionate amount of black on white crime occurs daily compared to white on black crime and your same "system" covers that up as well. shit goes both ways my man

Define "crime".

Because white on minorities is so systemic that I have a hard time believing any of that.

 

[Camp Lo]

All I see in that FBI table is that whites commit 70% of all crime in this country, yet by some magic African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites. Was I supposed to be seeing something else?

See, you don't understand ratio. If you did, you'd see that blacks on whites crimes are more than whites on blacks. That's IF you knew ratio.

 

[mre]

Seems like a odd statistic to hang your hat on, given how low the total amount of black-on-white crime is. It's nearly twice as high as white-on-black...but we're still talking about a total of 14%. You could say whites are six times more likely to kill another white person than a black person is likely to kill a white person.

*That statistic I cited dealt solely with murder involving 1 perpetrator and 1 victim. I've looked, but I cannot find any statistics on the FBI's website addressing racial comparisons of perpetrator and victim for other crimes.

 

[Jaeger]

He's banned. At this stage, I will take any form of justice possible.

 

[Kurdel]

All I see in that FBI table is that whites commit 70% of all crime in this country, yet by some magic African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites. Was I supposed to be seeing something else?

Seems to be a chart of charges, not convictions.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yes.


Poor black people in the ghetto have been beaten down, marginalized, cheated, robbed from, kept uneducated, imprisioned, and murdered for generations by our society. Why should they give one good god damn about a social contract that's a complete lie when it comes to them? White people protest with guns, nothing happens. Black people protest with signs, they get cuffed and booked. What else have desperate people got but lashing out? The Civil Rights Movement was over half a century ago. Fat lot of good it's doing them now.

Everyone likes to talk all loftily about non-violence, and how ignorant people are who don't subscribe to it. But the Civil Rights era was littered with race riots. It's revisionist to presume that all the pressure for social change came solely from the non-violent protest marches, as if the onus was on black people to make a convincing argument that was safe enough for the approval of white people before anything could happen, and that the Montgomery marches finally hit upon the formula that magically opened the golden door. Well, the fact is the Bobby Seales and Malcolm Xs and the justified anger they represented were a vital part of the pressure to get the white power structure to even be inclined to deal with with the non-violent part of the movement.

I know you're trying to make the distracting argument that these looters are just selfish criminals trying to do a smash and grab. Well sure, how the hell do you think that happened? They were born with no future in a place with no hope who are constantly under threat from authority no matter how they behave, people who've never had shit and never will have shit and who are constantly told that they're bad. How are they supposed to see beyond what they can get their hands on next? Things you consider to be low petty crimes are their protest, their disobedience to the rules of the oppressors, it's all they've fucking GOT. We've fucked them and stolen their shit for so long, how can we have the nerve to be shocked and outraged when they finally say fuck it and act the same way?

The argument that riots provide a convenient way to dismiss the problem by whites and therefore it's the fault of the rioters that no progress has been made is as stupid as the argument that feminism blocks progress in equal rights because the name is too excluding. There's no need to cater to the fake concerns of a group that was going to fight you tooth and nail anyway. They would find another excuse. Outrage that people behave like cornered beaten animals is sheer deflection from that fact that this is what we've driven them to. The fact is, we aren't going to have a real conversation about how to fix things with real incentive to implement the solutions without that looming threat of increased violence. And we've been sitting on it pretending the problem had gone away since Reagan got elected.

So yes, this is an anger that has run far too deep, far too wide, and far too long for you to blithely expect to be subsumed in the name of civility, or condemn in the name of personal responsibility. There will be more riots, and until we change things, it's America's fault. We are personally responsible for building a better society where entire classes of people aren't systematically abused. The riots, the vandalism, the looting, that's our collective fucking failure, and the sooner we stop deflecting that responsibility onto our victims, the better.


So shut the fuck up about how bad the rioters are, and start pointing your outrage noise tubes at the Power. You know, THE THING THAT KEEPS MURDERING BLACK KIDS.

 

[Sub_Level]

Police chief speaking now.

 

[marrec]

Police chief speaking now.

Was this a pre-planned presser or is this unannounced?

 

[vas_a_morir]

Just so you know, police are trained to lie to get convictions. They have no duty to be truthful, except when under oath. So, the last eye-witness account I will EVER believe is the police. They go for that 'you see, you know you just fucked up just now, right?' moment.

 

[Protein]

Looks like white guilt got the best of GAF. Another white man oppressed oh no!

I've always wondered what happens to all the racists, misogynists, homophobes, and bigots that were punted out of GAF. I've always speculated that they run off and form those conservative news aggregates, fringe blogs, some obscure GAF-hating subreddit, or are forced into Lurker Hell where they try to communicate with us through YouTube comments like evil spirits from the grave.

 

[Mesousa]

Now just imagine if that rage that went into rioting was actually focused on revolutionary education. Would be a beautiful thing.

 

[marrec]

Now just imagine if that rage that went into rioting was actually focused on revolutionary education. Would be a beautiful thing.

I don't think you can rage-teach someone.

That's probably an ineffective way to educate.

 

[Sub_Level]

Police chief can't give autopsy results. Body has been released to family for burial.

500 officers on scene last night/this morning. Further confirms FBI investigation (parallel)

Was this a pre-planned presser or is this unannounced?

I imagine it was announced but possibly only recently. Press are there.

 

[Kurdel]

Just so you know, police are trained to lie to get convictions. They have no duty to be truthful, except when under oath. So, the last eye-witness account I will EVER believe is the police. They go for that 'you see, you know you just fucked up just now, right?' moment.

Can you back that up?

 

[Omegasquash]

I've always wondered what happens to all the racists, misogynists, homophobes, and bigots that were punted out of GAF. I've always speculated that they run off and form those conservative news aggregates, fringe blogs, some obscure GAF-hating subreddit, or are forced into Lurker Hell where they try to communicate with us through YouTube comments like evil spirits from the grave.

My vote is on the Gaf-hating subreddit. It's amazing to me how anyone can actively take a tragedy and spin it into some shit like that.

Edit: looks like one of my posts disappeared...hope I didn't step on any toes there.

 

[Trey]

See, I want to bang with Sea Manky's post, but I can't get down with rioting. It's senseless (and passionate) violence and easy to both curb and marginalize what it stands for.

Having several dozen blacks show a force of armed carry in a Walmart somewhere, or organized messaging, or protesting public civil service buildings like courthouses and police stations.

It needs to be organized.

 

[Camp Lo]

I've always wondered what happens to all the racists, misogynists, homophobes, and bigots that were punted out of GAF. I've always speculated that they run off and form those conservative news aggregates, fringe blogs, some obscure GAF-hating subreddit, or are forced into Lurker Hell where they try to communicate with us through YouTube comments like evil spirits from the grave.

I've seen that shit the other day. Good lord, there's so much salt there.