Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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Battersea Power Station said:
No, liberal in the US often means progressive, meaning they're for more government intervention in order to address said institutional problems.

Whether the US version of "liberal" goes far enough compared with the rest of the western world is another issue.
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Not from my experience. Liberals here stand on platforms like legalize and weed and gay marriage which I guess is progressive but by and large the ideology itself is very individualistic. Liberals are usually the people who say shit like "I don't see race" and subscribe to respectability politics. They don't support affirmative action because it's seen as preferential treatment to them. In other words they don't want govt intervention on such issues as these are individual problems. Getting them to recognize institutional problems is very hard as it conflicts with their ideologies. Just what I think. Fun fact the founder of moden liberalism supported the slave trade and the Native American genocide with the ideology.
 
I hope these people stand their ground and stand out there again tomorrow night. This is a big issue that needs to be addressed. Not just what they are protesting for and about, but also how the police are. This needs to change.
 
So what happens if someone gets shot in the eye by a rubber bullet?
Or someone gets arrested for no reason, won't that show up on a future job application?
 
Infinite said:
Not from my experience. Liberals here stand on platforms like legalize and weed and gay marriage which I guess is progressive but by and large the ideology itself is very individualistic. Liberals are usually the people who say shit like "I don't see race" and subscribe to respectability politics. They don't support affirmative action because it's seen as preferential treatment to them. In other words they don't want govt intervention on such issues as these are individual problems. Getting them to recognize institutional problems is very hard as it conflicts with their ideologies. Just what I think. Fun fact the founder of moden liberalism supported the slave trade and the Native American genocide with the ideology.
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Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Like I was implying in my previous post, American liberals are pretty conservative by European standards.

But nevertheless, they are the wing of affirmative action and voter right acts and similar legislature that seeks to fix institutional inequality. That's why they get blamed for "white guilt" in every other thread here: because many of them recognize that there is inherent disadvantage for minority groups. What you're saying is that not enough of them do.

That might be true, but it doesn't mean that the conservative wing is more progressive than the liberal wing as far as social programs and legislature goes.

EDIT: I'm rereading your post and it seems like you're talking about libertarians.
 
webkatt said:
There is going to be a riot soon isn't there?
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Theres going to be a lot of civilians maimed by State Police Military forces, yes. Going to a protest on sunday. LAPD. There are no means for peaceful revolution anymore, just upset people having guns pointed at them by people that deem them enemies. What the fuck else is going to happen in these tense situations, you know? Theres no other option. You have to consider that if all it takes is 1 person to have hell unleashed on an entire group of people, its highly likely for riots to occur in these tense situations.

Lets say this wasn't covered by the media. The problem is still very much there.
 
malfcn said:
So what happens if someone gets shot in the eye by a rubber bullet?
Or someone gets arrested for no reason, won't that show up on a future job application?
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1. Potentially really bad damage to say the least.

2. They get fucked over and nothing gets fixed because justice is fake in this country most of the time.
 
Holy hell...

10616431_10154484787790154_7798465876130197233_n.jpg
 
CassidyIzABeast said:
You should know how this goes by now."This goes beyond color" slowly morphs into "we should look at ourselves and try to understand why this continues to happen". Slowly but surely that black on black violence scapegoat will creep its way into the conversation.
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Glancing over some of comments concerning all this over social media, I've been seeing similar things coming from regular people. Most of it being summed up as"black on black violence is ignored but if it's a white killer we have to rage, racists."
 
I don't understand why this is going this far. What are the police's goals at this point? Are they trying to keep themselves in some sort of power position? I ask because back in 2001, Cincinnati (Home city) had a riot over the same reason, cop killed unarmed black teen. However this shit did not happen. The cops arrested 956 people in those four days (800 being innocent people out past "Curfew"), but they eventually fired the cop, and things became peaceful again. They did not become a gorilla unit against unarmed people and journalist. So what is it they are hoping to even gain from this?
 
tkscz said:
I don't understand why this is going this far. What are the police's goals at this point? Are they trying to keep themselves in some sort of power position? I ask because back in 2001, Cincinnati (Home city) had a riot over the same reason, cop killed unarmed black teen. However this shit did not happen. The cops arrested 956 people in those four days (800 being innocent people out past "Curfew"), but they eventually fired the cop, and things became peaceful again. They did not become a gorilla unit against unarmed people and journalist. So what is it they are hoping to even gain from this?
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They have no goal at this point. They seemed to want to stop anyone from reporting and hope the discussion would die down but now it's all blown up in their faces. The world is now watching.
 
tkscz said:
I don't understand why this is going this far. What are the police's goals at this point? Are they trying to keep themselves in some sort of power position? I ask because back in 2001, Cincinnati (Home city) had a riot over the same reason, cop killed unarmed black teen. However this shit did not happen. The cops arrested 956 people in those four days (800 being innocent people out past "Curfew"), but they eventually fired the cop, and things became peaceful again. They did not become a gorilla unit against unarmed people and journalist. So what is it they are hoping to even gain from this?
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The reason we have cops is the illusion of a force that can enforce law and order no matter what. When that force is not seen as to be doing that job then riots happen in an otherwise law abiding community.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Like I was implying in my previous post, American liberals are pretty conservative by European standards.

But nevertheless, they are the wing of affirmative action and voter right acts and similar legislature that seeks to fix institutional inequality. That's why they get blamed for "white guilt" in every other thread here: because many of them recognize that there is inherent disadvantage for minority groups. What you're saying is that not enough of them do.

That might be true, but it doesn't mean that the conservative wing is more progressive than the liberal wing as far as social programs and legislature goes.

EDIT: I'm rereading your post and it seems like you're talking about libertarians.
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You would think that I'm talking about libertarians but this is what people in this country who call themselves liberals cosign on. In American we have a saying that republicans and democrats are exactly the same it's just that one of them knows how to hide their bullshit better than the other.
 
tkscz said:
I don't understand why this is going this far. What are the police's goals at this point? Are they trying to keep themselves in some sort of power position? I ask because back in 2001, Cincinnati (Home city) had a riot over the same reason, cop killed unarmed black teen. However this shit did not happen. The cops arrested 956 people in those four days (800 being innocent people out past "Curfew"), but they eventually fired the cop, and things became peaceful again. They did not become a gorilla unit against unarmed people and journalist. So what is it they are hoping to even gain from this?
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They're racist power-tripping morons. Ever since the initial incident they've been digging a hole deeper and deeper for absolutely no logical reason at all.
 
Infinite said:
You would think that I'm talking about libertarians but this is what people in this country who call themselves liberals cosign on. In American we have a saying that republicans and democrats are exactly the same it's just that one of them knows how to hide their bullshit better than the other.
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I guess? Nevertheless, if we had a Democrat-controlled House over the last 5+ years, I feel like the country would have been in much better shape. Instead, we have the most inactive Congress EVER. And denying that the Republicans are responsible will only lead to a sad voter turnout later this year, and similarly disappointing results over the next two.
 
I like/support Anonymous but really wish they'd get rid of the never forgive/forget slogan lol.

In the past couple of years post-Occupy they (or at least a segment of them) have gotten much more left wing and shed some of the white-libertarian-conspiracy base they once had. Their twitter and videos are a lot more focused on social/economic justice stuff as well as anti-authoritarianism.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
I guess? Nevertheless, if we had a Democrat-controlled house over the last 5+ years, I feel like the country would have been in much better shape. And denying it will only lead to a sad voter turnout later this year, and similarly disappointing results over the next two.
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Nope.

It would be the same. We would have the same economic recovery just a different political shit flavor. People in congress are not out to help us, they are out to help their donors, regardless of party lines.
 
MrGerbils said:
When they said military grade they're talking about the equipment the police have that is of the same type the military uses. They weren't actually talking about the military's equipment.

These guys are the police:
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Look at those guys. It's hard to see them as anything other than wannabe soldiers that didn't fancy facing an evenly matched opponent. Picture ought to be captioned 'boys and their toys!'.
 
Infinite said:
Not from my experience. Liberals here stand on platforms like legalize and weed and gay marriage which I guess is progressive but by and large the ideology itself is very individualistic. Liberals are usually the people who say shit like "I don't see race" and subscribe to respectability politics. They don't support affirmative action because it's seen as preferential treatment to them. In other words they don't want govt intervention on such issues as these are individual problems. Getting them to recognize institutional problems is very hard as it conflicts with their ideologies. Just what I think. Fun fact the founder of moden liberalism supported the slave trade and the Native American genocide with the ideology .
Click to expand...
Who is the founder of "modern liberalism?" Define liberalism for that matter. I'd throw other questions at you but your preface of "from where I stand" is parsed as 'in my opinion' so it's pointless.
 
So tired of seeing the mockingly where are the anti-government people tweets as if they are clever.

We should be grateful that the Anti-Government people have not gotten involved. When the Police fired on the crowds tonight with rubber bullets etc that would have escalated into true bloodshed if those guys were there.
 
SmokyDave said:
Look at those guys. It's hard to see them as anything other than wannabe soldiers that didn't fancy facing an evenly matched opponent. Picture ought to be captioned 'boys and their toys!'.
Click to expand...

Call of Duty: Hardline is another optional caption. It's absolutely ridiculous.
 
Infinite said:
You would think that I'm talking about libertarians but this is what people in this country who call themselves liberals cosign on. In American we have a saying that republicans and democrats are exactly the same it's just that one of them knows how to hide their bullshit better than the other.
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Because when you grow up in an integrated middle-class suburb, you're not seeing what's going on in a 100% Black low-income neighborhood in a city. The study posted earlier about attitudes towards the police ended up cleaving on class lines- poor people saw it through a racial lens, middle-class people did not. And when there's a $50K difference in average net worth between a white guy ($60) and a black one ($12K), you're going to have a tremendous schism in how these things are perceived, because they aren't actively experiencing these things or seeing them happen around them when they're growing up. And because it's not the sort of thing that's covered in schools, it has to be learned through osmosis as an adult, which...is pretty hit or miss.

edit Here's the wealth gap infographic I was referencing- my initial recollection of the numbers was slightly off and I'll fix it now: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-staggering-wealth-gap-across-race-gender-and-marriage-status
 
antonz said:
So tired of seeing the mockingly where are the anti-government people tweets as if they are clever.

We should be grateful that the Anti-Government people have not gotten involved. When the Police fired on the crowds tonight with rubber bullets etc that would have escalated into true bloodshed if those guys were there.
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You assume that the bulk of those anti government militias would be on the side of the mostly black crowd.
 
Tubie said:
Nope.

It would be the same. We would have the same economic recovery just a different political shit flavor. People in congress are not out to help us, they are out to help their donors, regardless of party lines.
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You're way off base. The House has gotten in the way like never before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/04/opinion/krugman-this-republican-economy.html?_r=2&

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/07/06/511940/5-ways-republicans-sabotaged-job-growth/
 
Dali said:
Who is the founder of "modern liberalism?" Define liberalism for that matter. I'd throw other questions at you but your preface of "from where I stand" is parsed as 'in my opinion' so it's pointless.
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He means Andrew Jackson, who founded the Democratic party.
 
antonz said:
So tired of seeing the mockingly where are the anti-government people tweets as if they are clever.

We should be grateful that the Anti-Government people have not gotten involved. When the Police fired on the crowds tonight with rubber bullets etc that would have escalated into true bloodshed if those guys were there.
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I think they just mean "why aren't they commenting on it or condemning it?"

Though some of us are.

https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/status/499740253633388546
Justin Amash @repjustinamash · 55m
Images & reports out of #Ferguson are frightening. Is this a war zone or a US city? Gov't escalates tensions w/military equipment & tactics.
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Except they support parties (and policies) that support militarization of police...so there's that. I wonder why, maybe to control the non-whites???

Local police signed free market ayn rand paul ryan andrew ryan ryan gosling contract with the government for those weapons and armor bruh, stopping that is stopping freedom.
 
DiscoJer said:
He means Andrew Jackson, who founded the Democratic party.
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The Democratic Party of those days is different from the Democratic Party of today. It's like comparing the Republican Party of the Civil War with the Republican Party of today. The comparisons that far back fall apart very easily.
 
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