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[ReignofSparrows]

Unsure, but what makes it more compelling / credible is that it's seemingly an eyewitness account being told casually to a friend without a real awareness that it's being recorded. The audio is specifically around the 6:25 mark if I remember right.

This is the key piece. If he "kept coming toward him" it contradicts the "he was on the ground with his hands in the air" narrative.

If the autopsy supports this account then it will be much harder to prove murder, and it would bring serious questions to the testimony of the eye witnesses. They need to find and interview that witness from the video.

This is hilarious. You people think you are being so objective by being blatantly biased.

At this point we have three witnesses who have said Brown was shot while running, then while turning to surrender. We also have the friend's testimony, which has limited probative value, but more than a friend's second hand account of the officer's narrative. We also have a live tweeter whose tweets align with those three witnesses more than the witness on the video.

Further, not all testimony is taken at face value in a court of law, and I don't just mean witness credibility. The credibility of the testimony itself is also not created equally. And the reality is that the idea that someone wrestled with a cop and then fled for more than 35 feet after the cop fired his gun only to stop and turn around and taunt the officer and then double back in the face of gunfire is simply not as plausible as the other witnesses' testimony. Keep in mind that for the video's witness to be accurate, Brown had to cover some significant distance since "he kept rushing him" before dying. And he died approximately 35 feet from the car.

I just think it's hilarious that you've had these other witnesses with seemingly no relation relaying the same version of events for the past week, and then when one video surfaces to support the officer on a clearly biased site, it brings out the armchair lawyers and concern trolls.

 

[googleplex]

Except we aren't talking about any black man are we? The guy was a whole ten minutes off of aggressively shoving a shopkeeper around while brazenly robbing him in broad daylight. Is that also the act of any black man, or is it just possible that this one is openly aggressive and completely disrespectful of the law.

I don't want to interrupt the canonization of Saint Brown, patron of saint of any black man, but maybe he's kind of a thug?

I mean the guy didn't deserve to be shot, but holy shit, that leap from people publicly talking about how this guy just committed a felony not ten minutes before his confrontation with the police straight into rhetoric about people vilifying all black people.

Are they guys looting and burning the Quick Trip in protest innocent protester being unjustly smeared too in your world?

What the fuck....I just ...


Ok...I need to step away from this thread for a while. I'm going to end up getting band for reacting to post like these.

 

[GameGuru59]

If he was a rapist or a murderer he wouldn't have deserved being shot after surrendering. He was an 18 year old that allegedly stole some Rellos.

It is irrelevant who he was.

This. It doesn't actually matter what he was doing as far as the law goes. He was surrendering according to 4 witnesses now. Does not committing a crime make you less likely to be shot by police? Yes. Does that excuse the police for shooting you when you are surrendering? No. This is pretty simple folks.

I mean, it's illegal to shoot surrendering troops in war. Can we not expect the same treatment on our streets?

 

[freddy]

I couldn't watch the video on tavernkeepers for some reason. The video is here and the relevant audio is at 6:25 onwards.

Warning for the video of a dead body and distressed relatives.

http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM

 

[lazorexplosion]

This type of stuff is the reason why people are mad. None of this has any bearing on whether it was ok for the officer to execute brown in the middle of the street. It is a distraction for someone because they just want an excuse to forget the case and vindication for others because they believe the police or harbor some sort of racist feelings. I mean their are multiple witnesses including someone who live tweeted the cop committing the act. Yet all some people wanna harp on is how bad the looters or how of much of a "thug" Michael Brown" was.

It has a bearing on whether it was an execution or a fight.

Literally no one sane expects a black man walking down the street to attack a police officer. No one. Yeah I kinda expect a cop to shot a black man for little to no reason; holding a toy gun in a toy store is shoot on sight situation for some of those dickheads.

But when the black man walking down the street brazenly and aggressively committed a felony literally ten minutes ago you the expectations of what might have happened when a police officer turns up and said 'hey, you' are completely different. Black man, white man, any man, there is the possibility that someone in that position might panic and do something stupid. Now the possibility is there that there might be another side to the story, and we haven't heard it yet.

It's pertinent. The release and public discussion of pertinent information is not some smear campaign against black people because it makes the black guy look bad.

 

[MHWilliams]

Except we aren't talking about any black man are we? The guy was a whole ten minutes off of aggressively shoving a shopkeeper around while brazenly robbing him in broad daylight. Is that also the act of any black man, or is it just possible that this one is openly aggressive and completely disrespectful of the law.

I don't want to interrupt the canonization of Saint Brown, patron of saint of any black man, but maybe he's kind of a thug?

I mean the guy didn't deserve to be shot, but holy shit, that leap from people publicly talking about how this guy just committed a felony not ten minutes before his confrontation with the police straight into rhetoric about people vilifying all black people.

Are they guys looting and burning the Quick Trip in protest innocent protester being unjustly smeared too in your world?

Bam. That's it. End of story.

It has a bearing on whether it was an execution or a fight.

Literally no one sane expects a black man walking down the street to attack a police officer. No one. Yeah I kinda expect a cop to shot a black man for little to no reason; holding a toy gun in a toy store is shoot on sight situation for some of those dickheads.

But when the black man walking down the street brazenly and aggressively committed a felony literally ten minutes ago you the expectations of what might have happened when a police officer turns up and said 'hey, you' are completely different. Black man, white man, any man, there is the possibility that someone in that position might panic and do something stupid. Now the possibility is there that there might be another side to the story, and we haven't heard it yet.

It's pertinent. The release and public discussion of pertinent information is not some smear campaign against black people because it makes the black guy look bad.

There are two sides. There's three unrelated witnesses who say one thing and a cop who...

Oh, wait. He's said nothing.

 

[lazorexplosion]

An unarmed teen still didn't deserve to die. That's all that matters.

Did I fucking say that? Because I specifically wrote to avoid fucking saying that.

He. Did. Not. Deserve. To. Die.

 

[Punchy4486]

It has a bearing on whether it was an execution or a fight.

Literally no one sane expects a black man walking down the street to attack a police officer. No one. Yeah I kinda expect a cop to shot a black man for little to no reason; holding a toy gun in a toy store is shoot on sight situation for some of those dickheads.

But when the black man walking down the street brazenly and aggressively committed a felony literally ten minutes ago you the expectations of what might have happened when a police officer turns up and said 'hey, you' are completely different. Black man, white man, any man, there is the possibility that someone in that position might panic and do something stupid. Now the possibility is there that there might be another side to the story, and we haven't heard it yet.

It's pertinent. The release and public discussion of pertinent information is not some smear campaign against black people because it makes the black guy look bad.

While technically accurate, you know exactly what you're doing when you keep referring to that video as a felony, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Jackpot]

Did I fucking say that? Because I specifically wrote to avoid fucking saying that.

He. Did. Not. Deserve. To. Die.

Then what relevance is all this "thug" talk?

 

[BunnyBear]

Evidence so far is that; he was a great guy, loving husband of 4. Honor roll in grade 9/10. Loves playing hockey and has a clean record. Actually donated to several black charities within the last couple months

But that's irrelevant. From what I've read the cop has a clean record, is highly regarded and was a top student. Doesn't mean he didn't have a moment of madness and shoot the kid.

We need to be consistent with our analysis if we're going on minimal info. The true evidence are they eyewitness accounts.

 

[CrankyJay]

Are you saying they shouldn't release the toxicology report.

I'm saying it doesn't really matter. He was the one who got killed.

People will see that he probably had THC in his system and use it as justification for his death.

Same thing happened with Trayvon.

 

[lazorexplosion]

While technically accurate, you know exactly what you're doing when you keep referring to that video as a felony, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Pretty much sums up the attitude.

Why let accuracy about the context in any way make introduce unwanted murk to the Perfect Symbolic Death For Political Advocacy.

 

[ronito]

So I've literally turned off any mainstream media after they first ignored this then only paid attention to do a character assassination. Has anything changed there?

Also, a toxicology report? That's a great idea! When do we get that? Oh wait...we're not talking about the cop are we?...Of course not.

 

[googleplex]

It has a bearing on whether it was an execution or a fight.

Literally no one sane expects a black man walking down the street to attack a police officer. No one. Yeah I kinda expect a cop to shot a black man for little to no reason; holding a toy gun in a toy store is shoot on sight situation for some of those dickheads.

But when the black man walking down the street brazenly and aggressively committed a felony literally ten minutes ago you the expectations of what might have happened when a police officer turns up and said 'hey, you' are completely different. Black man, white man, any man, there is the possibility that someone in that position might panic and do something stupid. Now the possibility is there that there might be another side to the story, and we haven't heard it yet.

It's pertinent. The release and public discussion of pertinent information is not some smear campaign against black people because it makes the black guy look bad.

No that your own prejudice talking. What happened 10 minutes ago that the shooting officer didn't know about has fuck all to do with the shooting. PERIOD.

FYI All your talk of aggression, Thug and "Felonies" is pretty god damn disgusting.

 

[Saint Gregory]

So I've literally turned off any mainstream media after they first ignored this then only paid attention to do a character assassination. Has anything changed there?

Just proof that the character assassination strategy is working masterfully. No one even remembers that a shooting happened anymore.

 

[MHWilliams]

Pretty much sums up the attitude.

Why let accuracy about the context in any way make introduce unwanted murk to the Perfect Symbolic Death For Political Advocacy.

Great, you have your accuracy in a context.

You've stated this meant he did not deserve to die.

He did. Three witnesses say it was after Brown had surrendered. Even if the first two shots were in a struggle, that does not justify the latter shots. If the cop has another story, I'd certainly love to hear it. But his statement remains quiet. The police release a video and report about the robbery, but not one for the shooting.

As it stands, the DOJ did not want the video released because it muddies the waters. You're more focused on the "context" than the end result. That's why everyone is jumping down your throat.

 

[Rembrandt]

Did I fucking say that? Because I specifically wrote to avoid fucking saying that.

He. Did. Not. Deserve. To. Die.

Then why that big ol' stupid ass post?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Pretty much sums up the attitude.

Why let accuracy about the context in any way make introduce unwanted murk to the Perfect Symbolic Death For Political Advocacy.

Speaking of accuracy weren't there multiple witnesses that can confirm what happened?

 

[Kamina]

I'm saying it doesn't really matter. He was the one who got killed.

People will see that he probably had THC in his system and use it as justification for his death.

Same thing happened with Trayvon.

How would that be a justification? One can be full of drugs, but that doesnt make killing this person anything else than murder.

 

[MHWilliams]

Speaking of accuracy weren't there multiple witnesses that can confirm what happened?

Three separate accounts say essentially the same thing. Situation at car, shot. Brown running, shot. Brown surrendering, shot multiple times.

 

[googleplex]

Pretty much sums up the attitude.

Why let accuracy about the context in any way make introduce unwanted murk to the Perfect Symbolic Death For Political Advocacy.

There is no accuracy in the garbage your posting. The scenario you've concocted in your head doesn't hold up to logic. More importantly it doesn't mesh with the eye witness testimony.

But you've already label Brown a aggressive "Thug" to fit your world view.

 

[Saint Gregory]

How would that be a justification? One can be full of drugs, but that doesnt make killing this person anything else than murder.

The police are specifically holding back release of the coroners report because they are waiting to get back the toxicology report on the person who is dead.

I... I just can't even grasp that there are people who don't see a problem with that.

 

[JDSN]

#967: Walking brazenly and big while black.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Also (again), as I type I'm watching MSNBC and the Justice Dpt. has announced that it will do its own autopsy of Mike's body. Looks like this is a full fledged independent investigation, and not just a parallel one where they just monitor. Good shit.

well that is interesting. tough not to read too much into that detail.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Three separate accounts say essentially the same thing. Situation at car, shot. Brown running, shot. Brown surrendering, shot multiple times.

So why people are still assuming the cop's version when we have three people refuting/expanding that is beyond me.

I mean, shit. Even if he did go for the gun (for sake of argument) he ran away then turned around and surrendered....and was shot execution style. How this is about the victim's character is mind boggling.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Is it me or am I reading passive aggressive racism disguised as "wanting to look at the issue objectively"

 

[freddy]

The police are specifically holding back release of the coroners report because they are waiting to get back the toxicology report on the person who is dead.

I... I just can't even grasp that there are people who don't see a problem with that.

Is the coroners office part of the police there? It's independent where I'm from.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Is it me or am I reading passive aggressive racism disguised as "wanting to look at the issue objectively"

It makes people who are genuinely interested in the truth of what happened look bad. I wish they would stop dancing around with bullshit and state their true views.

 

[googleplex]

Is it me or am I reading passive aggressive racism disguised as "wanting to look at the issue objectively"

Its not you. Just like all of the "Devils Advocates" in the.Tryvon Martin thread.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Then what relevance is all this "thug" talk?

People want this to be a symbolic outrage. Symbolic outrages are satisfying, and galvanizing. They're willfully dismissive of any evidence that would make this less perfect. For example, possibly incomplete eye witness testimony about the events of the shooting treated as certain; video evidence AND eyewitness testimony about the robbery are still insufficiently convincing. They're building up a slanted, biased view of the complexities and murkiness inherent in as case still under investigation and then using to to damn everything up to society in general.

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

 

[Saint Gregory]

So why people are still assuming the cop's version when we have three people refuting/expanding that is beyond me.

I mean, shit. Even if he did go for the gun (for sake of argument) he ran away then turned around and surrendered....and was shot execution style. How this is about the victim's character is mind boggling.

We still don't have the cops version. The police never took a statement or report from him and have released no information officially yet aside from why Mike Brown was stopped and all the information that they have about the unrelated alleged shoplifting case.

We do have tons of people developing their own version of events to support a story in defense of the police officer before he's even spoken for himself.

Is the coroners office part of the police there? It's independent where I'm from.

I'm not sure the police chief said in his press conference of Friday that they have the preliminary report but aren't releasing it until the toxicology report is done.

 

[Badosh]

Is it me or am I reading passive aggressive racism disguised as "wanting to look at the issue objectively"

Unfortunately, it's not just you.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Its not you. Just like all of the "Devils Advocates" in the.Tryvon Martin thread.

Christ that was disgusting.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

No, is not dude.

 

[MHWilliams]

So why people are still assuming the cop's version when we have three people refuting/expanding that is beyond me.

I mean, shit. Even if he did go for the gun (for sake of argument) he ran away then turned around and surrendered....and was shot execution style. How this is about the victim's character is mind boggling.

And that's the thing, even if Brown was a monster thug who routinely hits cops, was high as a kite, and got into the initial struggle with the officer, that only justifies shot one.

There's still a number of other shots to account for and witnesses say those happened while Brown was running or surrendering.

Shot one, still alive. The other shots killed him and according to witnesses, there's no justification.

People want this to be a symbolic outrage. Symbolic outrages are satisfying, and galvanizing. They're willfully dismissive of any evidence that would make this less perfect. For example, possibly incomplete eye witness testimony about the events of the shooting treated as certain; video evidence AND eyewitness testimony about the robbery are still insufficiently convincing. They're building up a slanted, biased view of the complexities and murkiness inherent in as case still under investigation and then using to to damn everything up to society in general.

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

And again, you choose to believe the phantom cop (again, no testimony or report) over witnesses. The objective viewpoint would include the witness statements.

Are people afraid that if they admit a cop can do wrong, the entire law enforcement establishment falls down around their heads?

 

[CrankyJay]

How would that be a justification? One can be full of drugs, but that doesnt make killing this person anything else than murder.

It's not a justification. Just saying in the court of public opinion people will say he wasn't a good kid. That he deserved it.

 

[Infinite]

Is it me or am I reading passive aggressive racism disguised as "wanting to look at the issue objectively"

It's not just you. People conflate being a contrarian, a moderate, and playing devils advocate with critical thinking all the time.

 

[GameGuru59]

I mean, shit. Even if he did go for the gun (for sake of argument) he ran away then turned around and surrendered....and was shot execution style.

Moreover, no statement by police explains why he was shot after he moved away from the car. So far, the police have literally just said (paraphrasing): "He went for the gun..." (refuted by at least one witness) "was shot in the course of trying to get the gun, ran, and then was shot multiple times again by the officer." They have said nothing else about what actually happened in the moment of the shooting.

The witness testimony is literally all we have to go on for what happens after Mike leaves the car. If the police had other info, they should have released it by now. If they have no other info, they need to arrest Darren Wilson and the DA needs to begin prosecution.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

People want this to be a symbolic outrage. Symbolic outrages are satisfying, and galvanizing. They're willfully dismissive of any evidence that would make this less perfect. For example, possibly incomplete eye witness testimony about the events of the shooting treated as certain; video evidence AND eyewitness testimony about the robbery are still insufficiently convincing. They're building up a slanted, biased view of the complexities and murkiness inherent in as case still under investigation and then using to to damn everything up to society in general.

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

No it isn't. The only thing it would potentially justify is shot #1.

 

[Kamina]

It's not a justification. Just saying in the court of public opinion people will say he wasn't a good kid. That he deserved it.

Wow, such a thing wouldn't be possible at any european court.

 

[gutter_trash]

People want this to be a symbolic outrage. Symbolic outrages are satisfying, and galvanizing. They're willfully dismissive of any evidence that would make this less perfect. For example, possibly incomplete eye witness testimony about the events of the shooting treated as certain; video evidence AND eyewitness testimony about the robbery are still insufficiently convincing. They're building up a slanted, biased view of the complexities and murkiness inherent in as case still under investigation and then using to to damn everything up to society in general.

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

one shot, okay.
but when Brown got hit and was forced to stop running because he was injured then raised his hands in surrunder.......... now the extra shots fired were not justified.

Brown could be a dick yeah, but he gave up and put himself in a submissive pose of surrender. The cop had NO justification for executing Brown after the latter was wounded and gave up

 

[whytemyke]

The only way I'd allow a tox screen to matter on this case is if Brown was on bath salts.

 

[CorvoSol]

Man, look at the vocab used here. All this talk of committing a felony and being a felon when all he did was basically shoplift.

Excuse me, but I thought this was a murder, not a car theft or something.

 

[CrankyJay]

Wow, such a thing wouldn't be possible at any european court.

It's not allowed in American courts either but jurors don't follow instructions very well over here so they let this kind of irrelevant info sway their opinion. That's why the cops keep doing it.

 

[EatinOlives]

People want this to be a symbolic outrage. Symbolic outrages are satisfying, and galvanizing. They're willfully dismissive of any evidence that would make this less perfect. For example, possibly incomplete eye witness testimony about the events of the shooting treated as certain; video evidence AND eyewitness testimony about the robbery are still insufficiently convincing. They're building up a slanted, biased view of the complexities and murkiness inherent in as case still under investigation and then using to to damn everything up to society in general.

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

But you just admitted he didn't deserve to die, making it very clear you agree with everyone that the lethal force was completely uncalled for and inappropriate. Poring over details of how inappropriate it was based on what was happening minutes before in an unrelated case suggests you have an ulterior motive.

You seem hellbent on making a distinction between "cop was COMPLETELY inappropriate" and "cop was partially inappropriate". What the fuck difference does it make, it's still inappropriate.

 

[Onemic]

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

Witnesses say this was not the case

 

[lazorexplosion]

Speaking of accuracy weren't there multiple witnesses that can confirm what happened?

There are multiple witnesses, but they're kind of incomplete on how the altercation started and what was involved . Except for Browns friend/accomplice.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

There is a possibility that Brown is a violent guy. There is a possibility that Brown might have assaulted the police officer prior to the shooting. This is pertinent to how badly lethal force was used in this situation.

Oh go on. Please go on.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

It's not allowed in American courts either but jurors don't follow instructions very well over here so they let this kind of irrelevant info sway their opinion. That's why the cops keep doing it.

Look at that one juror from the Trayvon case who claimed she took Stand Your Ground into account even though she wasn't supposed to.

 

[ISOM]

Witnesses say this was not the case

Witnesses? What witnesses? They are no match for a person's opinions and imaginations.