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[SlackAdjuster]

When police are busting a drug house they are addressing a criminal offense though. A peaceful protest isn't a criminal offense. Yeah the police should be ready to protect themselves but they have to be aware of the message they are sending. Remember the response they received when they arrived in their normal police attire. They responded positively even after the police aggravated them the night before. It's a relationship of trust and riot gear just shows the community that you don't trust them.

It absolutely is a criminal offense when a number of people within that "peaceful protest" aren't being peaceful and endangering the lives and well being of not only other people attending the protest, local businesses and property and also the police that are there to monitor it as well.

And there were still incidents Thursday. Less, sure. But there still were incidents and given that fact, if I'm the captain of the State Highway Patrol, I'm not sending my men out there unprepared to deal with those issues in a safe way. I know everyone hates all the cops right now but like I asked, just be realistic. The officers here doing their job aren't the guy who killed the kid last week. They're just there to do a job. Doing what they are told. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has to plan on how to safely control these protests and think about how you would feel if one of the men you're responsible for were injured or even killed because they were unprepared and told to relax.

With any situation, I always try to honestly put myself in everyone involved's shoes and look at things from every angle. The whole situation sucks. There is no perfect way to deal with this that will appease everyone and keep everyone safe at the same time.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

One, protesting isn't a crime while a running a drug operation is. Two, being in riot gear sends a message of hostility to the community. It basically says, "We are here to shut this shit down" not "We are here to make sure things don't get out of hand when your protesting" so you can't be surprised when people become hostile.

Chicken and the egg. They need to be prepared for if and when things get hostile or out of control. Its a tough situation, I understand.

 

[Jakten]

It absolutely is a criminal offense when a number of people within that "peaceful protest" aren't being peaceful and endangering the lives and well being of not only other people attending the protest, local businesses and property and also the police that are there to monitor it as well.

And there were still incidents Thursday. Less, sure. But there still were incidents and given that fact, if I'm the captain of the State Highway Patrol, I'm not sending my men out there unprepared to deal with those issues in a safe way. I know everyone hates all the cops right now but like I asked, just be realistic. The officers here doing their job aren't the guy who killed the kid last week. They're just there to do a job. Doing what they are told. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has to plan on how to safely control these protests and think about how you would feel if one of the men you're responsible for were injured or even killed because they were unprepared and told to relax.

With any situation, I always try to honestly put myself in everyone involved's shoes and look at things from every angle. The whole situation sucks. There is no perfect way to deal with this that will appease everyone and keep everyone safe at the same time.

All those events happened after the police aggravated the protesters. The Police showed they did not trust the people which agitated them more. Police disrespecting the rights of the people attracted others who had no respect for the law. The police should be protecting the protesters from those people not assuming that everyone involved intends to destroy their own community. These people are worried for the friends and family that make up the community do you honestly think their initial intention was to ruin it? The police officers also make up part of that community. They have not protected or served any aspect of their community so far in any way. They've injured and arrested innocent people and possibly contributed to destruction of their property, they stood around and watched people commit crimes while the community policed them themselves. The job of a police officer isn't to assume everyone in their community is a potential criminal. They should be helping them in a time of pain.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

All those events happened after the police aggravated the protesters. The Police showed they did not trust the people which agitated them more. Police disrespecting the rights of the people attracted others who had no respect for the law. The police should be protecting the protesters from those people not assuming that everyone involved intends to destroy their own community. These people are worried for the friends and family that make up the community do you honestly think their initial intention was to ruin it? The police officers also make up part of that community. They have not protected or served any aspect of their community so far in any way. They've injured and arrested innocent people and possibly contributed to destruction of their property, they stood around and watched people commit crimes while the community policed them. The job of a police officer isn't to assume everyone in their community is a potential criminal. They should be helping them in a time of pain.

What would you realistically expect them to do? How would you, as a police chief, handle the situation perfectly?

 

[linsivvi]

The Ferguson police are scums. Period.

 

[Jakten]

What would you realistically expect them to do? How would you, as a police chief, handle the situation perfectly?

Send normal police officers to provide a safe space to listen to people's concerns, help them and protect them through the night until they reach a resolution and disperse. If people commit crimes then address that situation as they would any other crime and protect the peaceful protestors from harm. If things get out of hand call for more serious measures. This builds a stronger community and shows that the police are people they can rely on rather than something untrustworthy and abusive.

Remember that even now the amount of people that have done criminal activities has been small compared to how many people were there and many of them came from outside of town after things got really hectic. The initial protest was not violent or aggressive until the police instigated it.

 

[antonz]

What would you realistically expect them to do? How would you, as a police chief, handle the situation perfectly?

If the Police can stand guard at businesses during the day when there is no issues they can certainly stand guard at night when the opportunists are going to come out.

The revolutionaries from chicago and the communists etc all have clear agenda's of trying to make this situation explode beyond what it already is. The cops are making it easy on these groups to come out and cause trouble rather than making it hard

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What would you realistically expect them to do? How would you, as a police chief, handle the situation perfectly?

When captain Johnson spoke with people face-to-face and there was no tear gas being launched into crowds of peaceful protesters, there wasn't any rioting. That might be a better way to handle the situation, either that, or don't kill unarmed people under unclear/suspicious circumstances in the first place.

Asking for a perfect solution to a situation that was screwed up form the start, and then tacitly justifying how poorly things are being currently handled is ridiculous by the way.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

Send normal police officers to provide a safe space to listen to people's concerns, help them and protect them through the night until they reach a resolution and disperse. If people commit crimes then address that situation as they would any other crime and protect the peaceful protestors from harm. If things get out of hand call for more serious measures. This builds a stronger community and shows that the police are people they can rely on rather than something untrustworthy and abusive.

Remember that even now the amount of people that have done criminal activities has been small compared to how many people were there and many of them came from outside of town after things got really hectic. The initial protest was not violent or aggressive until the police instigated it.

Kind of unrealistic to me, sorry. If you have a large group of peaceful people and one of the bad apples in the middle of that crowd throws a Molotov at your group, (which happened multiple times) or bottles or bricks or gunshots, etc. what are you supposed to do? You're not going to see who threw it and the best, safest way to handle it is to shut the whole thing down. Its very unfortunate for those who want to peacefully voice their frustration but again, I'm asking for realism. You dont send a guy out there in a short sleeved police shirt and a hat when people are launching dangerous shit at your group. It might be a few and a minority but even one is too much. Not worth the potential harm.

 

[Baby Milo]

What would you realistically expect them to do? How would you, as a police chief, handle the situation perfectly?

I would charge and arrest the officer who killed Mike Brown

 

[SlackAdjuster]

If the Police can stand guard at businesses during the day when there is no issues they can certainly stand guard at night when the opportunists are going to come out.

The revolutionaries from chicago and the communists etc all have clear agenda's of trying to make this situation explode beyond what it already is. The cops are making it easy on these groups to come out and cause trouble rather than making it hard

Again, we're blaming the cops and not the groups of assholes.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

When captain Johnson spoke with people face-to-face and there was no tear gas being launched into crowds of peaceful protesters, there wasn't any rioting. That might be a better way to handle the situation, either that, or don't kill unarmed people under unclear/suspicious circumstances in the first place.

Asking for a perfect solution to a situation that was screwed up form the start, and then tacitly justifying how poorly things are being currently handled is ridiculous by the way.

He was doing that shit during daytime hours. There really havent been too many issues in the daytime. When the sun goes down, shit starts poppin.

That's my point man, there IS no perfect solution here.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

I would charge and arrest the officer who killed Mike Brown

Not a single police officer on that scene right now has any ability to do that.

 

[Jackpot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28832462

Capt Ron Johnson said protesters had thrown petrol bombs and bottles at security forces, and set up barricades before the five-hour curfew began at midnight (05:00 GMT).

Security forces accused some of the demonstrators of advancing on a police command post

At least they've recognised they can't be called police. They use the same term when describing military responses in Iraq.

For people blaming parents for police tear gassing children and saying they shouldn't have been there, what would your response have been to the Children's Crusade in the 60s?

Or as a facebook image put it

UK: Man with mental problems outside Buckingham Palace with knife - brought down with two tasers. Lives.

 

[Carcetti]

Police defenders in these situations are always saying the only solution is to fire at the center of the mass with a gun because that's the only thing that will stop anyone dangerous. Interestingly enough, news from other countries seem to prove that wrong.

 

[Jakten]

Kind of unrealistic to me, sorry. If you have a large group of peaceful people and one of the bad apples in the middle of that crowd throws a Molotov at your group, (which happened multiple times) or bottles or bricks or gunshots, etc. what are you supposed to do? You're not going to see who threw it and the best, safest way to handle it is to shut the whole thing down. Its very unfortunate for those who want to peacefully voice their frustration but again, I'm asking for realism. You dont send a guy out there in a short sleeved police shirt and a hat when people are launching dangerous shit at your group. It might be a few and a minority but even one is too much. Not worth the potential harm.

Nothing dangerous was happening until the police started instigating it. As I said, they pretty much proved the peaceful method works when the new guy showed up, it worked even after people had been attacked by the police. In the initial protest no one was violent. That's realism because it really happened in real life. People returned to being violent that night because the police returned to being violent.

 

[CrankyJay]

Police defenders in these situations are always saying the only solution is to fire at the center of the mass with a gun because that's the only thing that will stop anyone dangerous. Interestingly enough, news from other countries seem to prove that wrong.

Those aren't mutually inclusive. I made that comment last night and I'm not defending the cops. I'm saying the likelihood that this cop is a crack shot isn't certain. We can't be sure he did it on purpose as some in this thread are insisting.

It makes the most sense to me the cop was firing in a straight line while Browns body was moving laterally.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Nothing dangerous was happening until the police started instigating it. As I said, they pretty much proved the peaceful method works when the new guy showed up, it worked even after people had been attacked by the police. In the initial protest no one was violent. That's realism because it really happened in real life.

I need to catch up. What did the police do, exactly, that warranted a violent reaction? If they were inciting the crowd then they need to be held accountable. What did they do?

 

[Jakten]

I need to catch up. What did the police do, exactly, that warranted a violent reaction?

Showed they didn't trust or respect the community and fire tear gas and rubber bullets at them? The reaction wasn't really violent either it was just agitated.

 

[BrassDragon]

Police defenders in these situations are always saying the only solution is to fire at the center of the mass with a gun because that's the only thing that will stop anyone dangerous. Interestingly enough, news from other countries seem to prove that wrong.

Culture and training play a huge part. In the Netherlands, we invest a lot in training officers to recogise and handle the mentally unstable - generally, the police tries to view them as people who need to be protected against themselves and taken into custody with minimal force, rather than threats to be terminated. Specialised negotiators, armoured shields, physical holds/tackles and pepper spray are the preferred way to go with these kind of suspects.

This attitude does pose a genuine risk to police and recently there was one officer shot dead with his own service weapon when he tried to physically restrain a very disturbed asylum seeker.

However, the police and society currently believe this risk is acceptable and the alternative, more use of lethal force on people who can't help themselves, is not a direction we want to go in.

TLDR; don't let the cops get away with claiming these shootings are the 'only options' - there are many ways to conduct police work and it all depends on the society you want to build and the amount of risk to officers and citizens you find acceptable.

 

[thefro]

I don't think that kind of police work is possible in the US when you never know if someone has a concealed gun on them or not. You'd have to change our gun laws/the 2nd amendment first.

 

[SlackAdjuster]

Showed they didn't trust or respect the community and fire tear gas and rubber bullets at them? The reaction wasn't really violent either it was just agitated.

They just did it out of boredom right? Or they wanted to start trouble, right? C'mon man. I know everything is all fuck the police right now but please, just be real. I guess I just need to accept that some people are emotional right now and aren't going to think rationally.

I reallllllllly hope shit is chill tonight with the National Guard coming in and I'm trying to be optimistic but I have bad feelings about this.

 

[JSizzle]

Bullshit.

This guy in Germany was coming at cops with a machete.

They shot him in the leg.

http://www.bild.de/news/inland/voll...-betrunkenen-macheten-mann-36259026.bild.html

Or as a facebook image put it

Funny how the rest of the civilized word has figured it out.

Here is a thought, don't try to attack an armed police officer especially with a weapon. In any of these cases an officer would be justified to put them down. In my area even when cops use tazers people bitch. I don't get why not attacking a cop is such a hard concept.

Even in this case if Brown pushed the door shut and attacked the cop. Why? What the fuck do you gain doing that bullshit? If he was surrendering and got shot it was murder no doubt. But again why come after a cop?

 

[Jacksinthe]

Showed they didn't trust or respect the community and fire tear gas and rubber bullets at them? The reaction wasn't really violent either it was just agitated.

Whoa holy shit! They fired into a peaceful protest? Nobody did ANYTHING to cause the police to fire tear gas or the like? Nobody threw anything at the cops, damaged property, etc? They just opened fire on the protest for no reason?

 

[Jakten]

They just did it out of boredom right? Or they wanted to start trouble, right? C'mon man. I know everything is all fuck the police right now but please, just be real. I guess I just need to accept that some people are emotional right now and aren't going to think rationally.

I reallllllllly hope shit is chill tonight with the National Guard coming in and I'm trying to be optimistic but I have bad feelings about this.

Have you been following this from the beginning or are you just coming in recently? I urge you to read through the thread. The police began attacking them after telling them to stop protesting and they didn't.

 

[Transhuman]

Here is a thought, don't try to attack an armed police officer especially with a weapon. In any of these cases an officer would be justified to put them down. In my area even when cops use tazers people bitch. I don't get why not attacking a cop is such a hard concept.

Most concepts are hard concepts when you have mental illness. At which point you need help, not bullets.

 

[Mesousa]

Whoa holy shit! They fired into a peaceful protest? Nobody did ANYTHING to cause the police to fire tear gas or the like? Nobody threw anything at the cops, damaged property, etc? They just opened fire on the protest for no reason?

Damage property? So property is worth attacking large groups of people now?

Capitalism is a disease.

 

[call_kotaku]

They just did it out of boredom right? Or they wanted to start trouble, right? C'mon man. I know everything is all fuck the police right now but please, just be real. I guess I just need to accept that some people are emotional right now and aren't going to think rationally.

I reallllllllly hope shit is chill tonight with the National Guard coming in and I'm trying to be optimistic but I have bad feelings about this.

It's been repeatedly pointed out that the Ferguson PD consistently took actions that escalated the situation instead of diffusing it, purposely or not. Many veterans even commented that how the Ferguson PD acted would be outside the bounds of acceptable response for the US military in Iraq or Afghanistan, much less by police in the US.

The fact that the entire situation de-escalated once police officers stopped pointing guns at people demonstrates who's actually at fault here. Then yesterday the police chose to release the surveillance footage, shoot teargas at protestors, and threaten members of the media, which is why everything escalated again.

 

[freddy]

Still no news of the protester that was shot in the crowd and in critical condition. Anyone hear anything on social media?

 

[Jakten]

Whoa holy shit! They fired into a peaceful protest? Nobody did ANYTHING to cause the police to fire tear gas or the like? Nobody threw anything at the cops, damaged property, etc? They just opened fire on the protest for no reason?

Nothing that remotely justifies this kind of response. The first instance I saw of someone throwing something was well into the ordeal and they were returning a tear gas canister. Even then people had said he was attempting to get it away from everyone and not that he was trying to hit police.

 

[Black-Wind]

Here is a thought, don't try to attack an armed police officer especially with a weapon. In any of these cases an officer would be justified to put them down. In my area even when cops use tazers people bitch. I don't get why not attacking a cop is such a hard concept.

Even in this case if Brown pushed the door shut and attacked the cop. Why? What the fuck do you gain doing that bullshit? If he was surrendering and got shot it was murder no doubt. But again why come after a cop?

Here's a thought, maybe the US gives too much power to cops?

The concept of "don't use force against/ attack cops" can easily get muddy as hell. Mentally ill people for example. Your life shouldn't be forfeit just because you don't bend to a cops will easily.

 

[Messofanego]

Good march:
https://twitter.com/norarahimian/status/501167285676294144

 

[remist]

The autopsy contradicts the accounts of Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell and the twitter eyewitness, who all claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. This would have been a pretty open and shut case if that was bore out by the evidence, but I think you are going to have a hard time getting a conviction now.

 

[JSizzle]

Here's a thought, maybe the US gives too much power to cops?

The concept of "don't use force against/ attack cops" can easily get muddy as hell. Mentally ill people for example. Your life shouldn't be forfeit just because you don't bend to a cops will easily.

So cops should be able to diagnose mental illness now? And no the concept of attack a cop with a weapon get shot isn't muddy at all. If you charge a cop with a machete/knife and get put down too fucking bad. Should the cop risk getting killed instead?

And disclaimer this has zero to do with Mike Brown.

 

[lexi]

The autopsy contradicts the accounts of Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell and the twitter eyewitness, who all claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. This would have been a pretty open and shut case if that was bore out by the evidence, but I think you are going to have a hard time getting a conviction now.

So you can shoot an unarmed guy 6 times and get away with if he's facing you?

 

[Jakten]

The autopsy contradicts the accounts of Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell and the twitter eyewitness, who all claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. This would have been a pretty open and shut case if that was bore out by the evidence, but I think you are going to have a hard time getting a conviction now.

It doesn't contradict the account it just means they heard a gun shot and assumed it hit him.

So cops should be able to diagnose mental illness now? And no the concept of attack a cop with a weapon get shot isn't muddy at all. If you charge a cop with a machete/knife and get put down too fucking bad. Should the cop risk getting killed instead?

And disclaimer this has zero to do with Mike Brown.

Cops should have a basic understanding of mental illness and the most common symptoms. It really doesn't require that much knowledge to know if someone is having a psychotic episode or can't properly comprehend what is going on. The police in my community are equipped to deal with this. Considering the special privileges we give police to handle things it should not be unreasonable to expect them to be competent. Thier job is to deal with people, they should know how.

 

[Mesousa]

So with the military being deployed against American citizens we can all call this war. That is why I always tell people stop thanking military personnel. They represent the state, not you. When you go against the state, they will be there to put you down. The same oppression you feel at home from police is the same thing they give worldwide not only in enemy countries, but in also friendly countries. Look at the news brothers and sisters. South Korea, Okinawa, Germany all have issues with these guys. As a youth Psy was even political in voicing his displeasure. Two girls killed by absolute losers and they didn't do anything to these guys. The system is broke from the top to the bottom.

 

[JSizzle]

So you can shoot an unarmed guy 6 times and get away with if he's facing you?

Not at all if he was surrendering. But it does make me question some of the eye witnesses since it was said he was shot in the back. Unless that was the medias mistake.

 

[Gattsu25]

Just the point out again, for the first time since its inception in the 1960's Amnesty International is sending people into the United States to investigate civil rights violations because of this incident.

Edit: Source: https://twitter.com/AmnestyNZ/status/501226485156298752

Yeah, not a good look.

 

[Enron]

National Guard deployed? Big mistake.

Those of you in here that think that's a good idea - as asshole as you think the St Louis County cops are, they are at least trained in crowd control.

The National Guard is not.

Hopefully they are just going to block off roads with some trucks.

 

[Messofanego]

 

[JSizzle]

So with the military being deployed against American citizens we can all call this war. That is why I always tell people stop thanking military personnel. They represent the state, not you. When you go against the state, they will be there to put you down. The same oppression you feel at home from police is the same thing they give worldwide not only in enemy countries, but in also friendly countries. Look at the news brothers and sisters. South Korea, Okinawa, Germany all have issues with these guys. As a youth Psy was even political in voicing his displeasure. Two girls killed by absolute losers and they didn't do anything to these guys. The system is broke from the top to the bottom.

Dramatize much? Is it also oppressive when the guard is deployed during flooding? Disasters?

 

[Sharpeye]

So with the military being deployed against American citizens we can all call this war. That is why I always tell people stop thanking military personnel. They represent the state, not you. When you go against the state, they will be there to put you down. The same oppression you feel at home from police is the same thing they give worldwide not only in enemy countries, but in also friendly countries. Look at the news brothers and sisters. South Korea, Okinawa, Germany all have issues with these guys. As a youth Psy was even political in voicing his displeasure. Two girls killed by absolute losers and they didn't do anything to these guys. The system is broke from the top to the bottom.

You really have a hard on against the u.s. Miltary don't you? Didn't you derial that playstation tgread with this preaching as well?

 

[CornDogg]

I reallllllllly hope shit is chill tonight with the National Guard coming in and I'm trying to be optimistic but I have bad feelings about this.

Just catching up. They're bringing in the National Guard? Shit...I have family in the MO National Guard.

Damage property? So property is worth attacking large groups of people now?

Capitalism is a disease.

The response was definitely heavy-handed at the beginning, and they absolutely shouldn't have been aiming their weapons at people unless there was an appropriate need to fire at them, but you can't really expect the police to not do anything when places are getting looted and burned down.

The autopsy contradicts the accounts of Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell and the twitter eyewitness, who all claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. This would have been a pretty open and shut case if that was bore out by the evidence, but I think you are going to have a hard time getting a conviction now.

Just read that report too. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear this whole thing was an elaborate stunt by M. Night Shyamalan.

 

[BronsonLee]

So with the military being deployed against American citizens we can all call this war. That is why I always tell people stop thanking military personnel. They represent the state, not you. When you go against the state, they will be there to put you down. The same oppression you feel at home from police is the same thing they give worldwide not only in enemy countries, but in also friendly countries. Look at the news brothers and sisters. South Korea, Okinawa, Germany all have issues with these guys. As a youth Psy was even political in voicing his displeasure. Two girls killed by absolute losers and they didn't do anything to these guys. The system is broke from the top to the bottom.

Wait wha-

You really have a hard on against the u.s. Miltary don't you? Didn't you derial that playstation tgread with this preaching as well?

...YOU AGAIN.

 

[BradC00]

So with the military being deployed against American citizens we can all call this war. That is why I always tell people stop thanking military personnel. They represent the state, not you. When you go against the state, they will be there to put you down. The same oppression you feel at home from police is the same thing they give worldwide not only in enemy countries, but in also friendly countries. Look at the news brothers and sisters. South Korea, Okinawa, Germany all have issues with these guys. As a youth Psy was even political in voicing his displeasure. Two girls killed by absolute losers and they didn't do anything to these guys. The system is broke from the top to the bottom.

yea, the crime rate of the military overseas (in the areas you posted) is like .000000000000025%

kill them all.

 

[Funky Papa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the National Guard meant to be deployed in situations of extreme urgency? Because so far I'm not seeing anything much worse than some of the riots we get over France, Italy or Spain from time to time. It's bad, but it hardly looks *critical*.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Damage property? So property is worth attacking large groups of people now?

Capitalism is a disease.

yes, tell that to the store owner whose livelihood depends on that store.

 

[aeolist]

The autopsy contradicts the accounts of Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell and the twitter eyewitness, who all claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. This would have been a pretty open and shut case if that was bore out by the evidence, but I think you are going to have a hard time getting a conviction now.

pretty sure they all also said more than 6 shots were fired, so it's entirely possible that the cop fired at him with his back turned and simply missed

 

[BradC00]

pretty sure they all also said more than 6 shots were fired, so it's entirely possible that the cop fired at him with his back turned and simply missed

so then he turned around and started charging the cop? makes sense.

edit: i guess he could have stopped, turned around and put his hands up. still waiting for more to come out.