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[Flo_Evans]

I may have totally missed this, but are you there right now?

No I am downtown.

 

[Gaz_RB]

This "open letter" is interesting. Definitely gives credence to the release of the video, although the timing was atrocious.


http://m.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

He lost me when he started comparing Ted Bundy and Timothy McVeigh's crimes to stealing Swisher Sweets

 

[timetokill]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/16/doj-robbery-video-michael-brown-ferguson_n_5684654.html

Sweet, thank you!

 

[Ovid]

Video of the immediate aftermath

Warning for graphic imagery obvs

So was the kid shot running away or facing the cop? I actually can't tell. Or is it still uncertain?

This is what I got from Piaget's interview on CNN.

- Brown walking in middle of road
- Wilson confronts Brown
- Pulled by Wilson towards police cruiser
- Brown gets away from Wilson's grip
- Brown starts to run away
- Shots are fired
- Bullet grazes Brown
- Brown turns towards Wilson after being hit (based on witnesses -- with arms raised)
- Wilson fires off more rounds
- Brown is killed

 

[FiggyCal]

I heard that the FBI or whoever didn't want the robbery footage released, but that the police released it anyway.

Is there any link that shows the FBI/DoJ didn't want it released? I have people saying it's not true and I'd love some backup.

NYTimes:

The Justice Department asked the Ferguson police not to release surveillance footage of a convenience store robbery in which, police said, Mr. Brown was a suspect, because of concerns that “it would roil the community further,” a federal law enforcement official said on Saturday.

The Ferguson Police Department released the video on Friday, and the official said it “occurred over the objection of federal authorities.” Federal investigators had a copy of the video as well, the official said, “and there were never any plans by the federal investigators to release that copy.”

Mr. Nixon said Sunday that state officials had not known that the Ferguson Police Department intended to release the video. “We were unaware they were going to release it, and we certainly were not happy with that being released, especially in the way that it was,” Mr. Nixon said on ABC’s “This Week.”

Washington Times:

When Ferguson police released video footage of teenager Michael Brown allegedly robbing a convenience store shortly before he was killed by a police officer, they did so against the objections of the U.S. Department of Justice.

County police had planned to release the video on Thursday, but were instructed not to by the DOJ, over concerns that the video would increase tensions in the community, a law enforcement official told CNN Saturday.

Police released the video on Friday at the same time it was announced that officer Darren Wilson shot down Mr. Brown.

 

[Corronchilejano]

This "open letter" is interesting. Definitely gives credence to the release of the video, although the timing was atrocious.


http://m.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

Yeah, were we equate dangerous killers with a guy stealing cigars.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Yeah, were we equate dangerous killers with a guy stealing cigars.

He lost me when he started comparing Ted Bundy and Timothy McVeigh's crimes to stealing Swisher Sweets

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

 

[DrForester]

So was the kid shot running away or facing the cop? I actually can't tell. Or is it still uncertain?

He was shot while facing the cop, but until we know how many shots were fired he could have been shot at while running and then turned around once he heard them.

Would blood splatter analysis be able to determine if he was running towards the officer while shot, or if he was standing still? Seems it would be really easy for police to prove their side if the cops version is correct.

And would ruin the police story about if it doesn't back them up.

 

[belvedere]

The two shots two the head, were "front to back" in relation to the body.

One entered from above the top of the head and exited through the eye.

The other entered the top of the head and ended toward the front of the head.

Again, it's in relation to the body, not the confrontation. They all technically entered "from the front".

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Officerrob]

He lost me when he started comparing Ted Bundy and Timothy McVeigh's crimes to stealing Swisher Sweets

Yeah, there are a couple good points there, but it does go off the rails

 

[studyguy]

I heard that the FBI or whoever didn't want the robbery footage released, but that the police released it anyway.

Is there any link that shows the FBI/DoJ didn't want it released? I have people saying it's not true and I'd love some backup.

Feel like it would have been best to keep that under wraps till after the fact, inflaming public opinion and especially media's opinion where people are already walking on eggshells seems like a bad mix. Feels like more ammo for emotional arguments rather than plain facts. Heard the officer was unaware of the robbery so if that really was the case then it has little to do with the actual shooting in the end.

 

[kehs]

Am I reading this correctly when I interpret this that Brown was shot while his back was turned on the officers?

For those two head shots Brown would either have to be hunched over facing the officer, or if he was facing away, his head would have to be tilted way back.

 

[timetokill]

NYTimes:

Washington Times:

Thanks Figgy. That's helpful too.

edit: Links, awesome!

Thanks everyone!

Feel like it would have been best to keep that under wraps till after the fact, inflaming public opinion and especially media's opinion where people are already walking on eggshells seems like a bad mix. Feels like more ammo for emotional arguments rather than plain facts. Heard the officer was unaware of the robbery so if that really was the case then it has little to do with the actual shooting in the end.

It's irrelevant to the case at hand, but the police want to say they're linked so that Wilson had potential to think he was dealing with a dangerous person or whatever they want to say.

Also, last I heard, the police chief changed his story and said Wilson may have known that Brown was the suspect and that he may have seen cigarillos "in his hand" or something and pieced things together. I don't buy it, but there it is.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

No, I got that part. But the frame of mind is different when you have stolen something small as opposed to killing over a hundred people.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

How does this affect the fact that Brown got shot after he surrendered?

 

[shadow_shogun]

So now Mike Brown is super human?

That weed power, I guess.

 

[CorvoSol]

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

Don't call it a felony like they're even remotely the same class of crime. One is stealing cigs and the other is murder.

 

[FiggyCal]

Thanks Figgy. That's helpful too.


Thanks everyone!

I added links to the stories now.

 

[Dugna]

No matter what happens at the end of this, there should be a demilitarization in many towns and cameras everywhere possible on the cops, just so we stop getting these screwed up cases.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

those guys were also insane but whatever...

 

[Devolution]

On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.

On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.

On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

No, I got that part. But the frame of mind is different when you have stolen something small as opposed to killing over a hundred people.

True enough, but the main point is that there will still be an altered frame of mind knowing he just committed a felony when confronted with an officer.

Don't call it a felony like they're even remotely the same class of crime. One is stealing cigs and the other is murder.

The point is a felony carries with it significant punishment. I wasn't equating the two.

 

[benjipwns]

This isn't a situation that should be logically split between liberal and conservative ideals, anyways. There are very blatant violations of civil rights at play here that should upset everyone.

Conservatives tend to prefer security over liberty. Which is a logical extension of their ideology. American conservatives tend to be a little more concerned about types of liberty because of the American ideological tradition.

But Mark Steyn is a filthy Canadian and has already been told that hateful words against government authorities undermine freedom and hurt all of us.

 

[Devolution]

True enough, but the main point is that there will still be an altered frame of mind knowing he just committed a felony when confronted with an officer.

This is quite the reach since the person in question is dead and it's easy to fear the cops when you haven't done anything wrong.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

This is quite the reach since the person in question is dead and it's easy to fear the cops when you haven't done anything wrong.

And it's easier to fear them more when you have.

 

[Officerrob]

Don't call it a felony like they're even remotely the same class of crime. One is stealing cigs and the other is murder.

They are not close to the same, BUT Robbery in the 2nd degree is a felony in Missouri

 

[Devolution]

And it's easier to fear them more when you have.

Oh wow, masterful retort.

 

[bob_arctor]

Then you're simply ignoring his point about frame of mind post criminal action when confronted with police afterward. Especially in regard to a felony.

No, they really aren't. It just doesn't really add up that you go from taxing some cigars to attacking a cop/going for his gun. I can see just flat out booking it on some scared shit, but instigating a physical altercation and going for a weapon? Nah.

 

[jamesinclair]

Are any conservatives raging over the cost to taxpayers of the ridiculous police responses?

 

[nilbog21]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

 

[BruiserBear]

Fox News running with the guess that Brown turned around and rushed at the policeman after being shot.

Running with, or just stating the official police story, because I just heard CNN saying something similar.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

No, they really aren't. It just doesn't really add up that you go from taxing some cigars to attacking a cop/going for his gun. I can just flat out booking it on some scared shit, but instigating a physical altercation and going for a weapon? Nah.

The whole thing is still speculation, but he wouldn't be the first to attack an officer and try to get away to avoid arrest.

 

[EatinOlives]

Are any conservatives raging over the cost to taxpayers of the ridiculous police responses?

Of course not. They only rage over the taxpayers cost when it comes to people on foodstamps that have a refrigerator in their house.

 

[ced]

Are any conservatives raging over the cost to taxpayers of the ridiculous police responses?

Fiscal conservatives are no more. It's just a dark ages ridiculous party now.

 

[FiggyCal]

Are any conservatives raging over the cost to taxpayers of the ridiculous police responses?

They're too busy raging over the third autopsy by the DOJ. Clearly that's costing taxpayers more money.

 

[Rembrandt]

The whole thing is still speculation, but he wouldn't be the first to attack an officer and try to get away to avoid arrest.

Lmao, oh my god. Why are you trying this angle so fucking hard?

 

[Gaz_RB]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

Ok, even if I agreed with all of that, he should of been arrested and put on trial, not shot in the middle of the street.

The whole thing is still speculation, but he wouldn't be the first to attack an officer and try to get away to avoid arrest.

Attacking an officer without a weapon usually doesn't warrant the death penalty...

 

[Oblong Schlong]

It's getting near the point that all these killings-by-cop will need their own sub-forum.

 

[kehs]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.

Why?

 

[Abelian75]

I think most Americans are familiar enough with marijuana to know that it doesn't make you do shit like attack cops for no reason. Also, at trial, the med. examiner will testify that weed can stay in your system for like a month and still be detected. No biggie.

I'd have assumed that an autopsy would be looking for THC levels in the blood, which I would think would be a pretty good indicator of how high one is at the time of death. Possibly I'm incorrect that this is a thing, and maybe that wasn't what this test was. But I thought blood tests were way better than urine and hair tests. I don't think the urine and hair tests are actually looking at THC levels, but metabolites of THC that last long after the fact.

This is all just a tangent, mind you. It's pot, who cares.

 

[ishibear]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

Jfc...

 

[BFIB]

Well, due to the ongoing issues, my company is shutting down all ATM's that could be vandalized. So I get to go yank the network equipment out of the ATM's in Ferguson and a 10 mile radius around it.

This is going to take a long while to do so, so odds are, I'll be down and about in the area tonight, until I'm told to leave.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

The whole thing is still speculation, but he wouldn't be the first to attack an officer and try to get away to avoid arrest.

So, attacking a police officer means you can legally get shot after you surrendered when trying to run away?

 

[zewone]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

And...that matters with him being murdered why?

None of the evidence points to the officer's life being endangered.

Mike Brown is not on trial here, because he wasn't given the chance.

 

[commedieu]

So he rushed the car like a triceratops after being shot at.

this thread gets more fucking infuriating every fucking page. Jesus christ.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Lmao, oh my god. Why are you trying this angle so fucking hard?

I'm not angling anything I'm specifically talking about he point made in the article I linked about the videos being released and how they aren't simply to be discarded as "character assassination."

So, attacking a police officer means you can legally get shot after you surrendered when trying to run away?

You're assuming he surrendered. There's also the account that he never did that and instead attacked the officer once he was told to stop as the officer drew the gun on him.

 

[Saganator]

I think the robbery footage is definitely relevant to the shooting, even if the cop didn't know about it.. Now we can safely infer the guy was a major D.Bag and bully who pushed around old people to get what he wants and with that attitude he probably wasn't too cooperative with the officers..

Why no taser? Pepper spray? Baton?

In your world, not being cooperative = death?

 

[Devolution]

If you can't understand why a young black man might be deathly afraid of cops in a town with a history of horrible racial profiling and unnecessary force against young black men, even if he's a A student who has never done anything wrong, I don't know what to tell you.

Empathy is hard.

 

[Officerrob]

Well, due to the ongoing issues, my company is shutting down all ATM's that could be vandalized. So I get to go yank the network equipment out of the ATM's in Ferguson and a 10 mile radius around it.

This is going to take a long while to do so, so odds are, I'll be down and about in the area tonight, until I'm told to leave.

Stay safe

 

[Rembrandt]

I'm not angling anything I'm specifically talking about he point made in the article I linked about the videos being released and how they aren't simply to be discarded as "character assassination."

That's exactly what it is because it's 100% irrelevant to him being shot.