Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
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The robbery happened way before there was even a thought of protest. Would someone wait that long to report a robbery?
No. His friend, Johnson, can clearly be seen placing the cigarillos that Brown handed him back on the counter before walking away.
Corronchilejano
Member
I think that's the whole point, so that this theft (that we are unsure of even happened or qualifies as one) isn't used to justify murder.
There were multiple wounds but two independant autopsies have determined that he was shot at least 6 times but perhaps as many as 8 times.
It's hard to tell exactly how many wounds were caused by initial shots because he was shot too many times.
No, Dorian did not steal anything. I think Mike tried to get him to steal and he refused.
These statements came out a couple of days ago. Way past the start of the protest, and the looting.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Whether or not he stole the cigarillos, you have video evidence of him assaulting the store owner.
No, I don't think that means he should have been shot.
That was never what was confirmed. The entry wound was into the top of the skull, and the pathologists suggested this was most likely due to him falling. All of the shots but one definitely were into the front of his body, and the remaining one could have been from behind depending on the position of his arm.
There are more than six wounds. It's six bullets.
I don't believe the officer will be sentenced to jail. His friend was there with him when the robbery happened so any testimony will be suspect. Eyewitnesses have also given conflicting reports. And it's not like the judicial system will allow him to be convicted by a community that is protesting and rioting on the streets. The trial will be held in some middle class area with a white majority. At that point the drug angle and all other things will play a significant role.
Where did I say he did? Where did I say that even if Wilson HAD known that Brown was a robbery/theft suspect that it should make a lick of a difference?
What does that have to do with the fact that you're making objectively false statements?
Eyemus Lutt
Member
First I want to make it clear that I don't think he deserved to die for stealing from the store and roughing up the owner, but if it's found out he was attacking the cop in any way then It's unfortunate he had to die, but better him than the cop.
You suggested that he wouldn't call the police because he would be worried he would be targeted but I doubt he would have waited days to report a robbery. Even if he was afraid of when things first started kicking off it would have been an hour or 2.
The family's autopsy said there were 4 shots to the arm, and 2 to the head. All were fired from the front, although there is a possibility one to the arm could have come from behind.
The shot to the head was was not an exit wound. Both entered the head while the head was down, the second one entering the eye and exiting through the jaw hitting the collar bone. The examiner thought he could have been falling.
ooookay then...
At lot of news sites of Livefeeds that update things as they happen. Huffington Post's is pretty good, as is Vox's. Those are the two I use.
Everything dealing with the shop/store owner/cigars has no relevance on anything dealing with his murder. That's what I'm saying.
Thanks.
Unless significant evidence is produced to support the officer's story I would not bet on this.
The press conference of the family's autopsy clearly said that all the shots were from the front. The shot on the arm is in question, it could have been from the front or back, etc.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGJE-_ydeY
What's your source for 6 times in the back?
Why would the cop have to die? Why the fuck are you assuming that this kid wanted to kill the cop?
You still haven't answered that question. If your answer is 'Because he shoplifted cigars' then that's not good enough. Lots of people shoplift everyday without then trying to kill a cop.
phantomspiker
Member
What the fuck.
Better the murderer live than the guy who stole a $3 pack of cigars.
Because the cop isn't trained nor have the tools for non-lethal force, right?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The autopsy report said the shot to the top of the head exited through the supraorbital ridge (eye).
Where did you read the shot went in the eye and out the jaw?
....
Nabs
Member
better him than the cop.
I'm trying so hard to understand this. Attacking a cop isn't a death sentence.
This is the most important thing to remember, im pretty sure it was the police chief even stated this in an interview.
You are 100% wrong with just about everything you posted. At least come back to someone posting crazy things with a modicum of facts
The robbery isn't relevant, but don't say it never happened
Steve Youngblood
Member
I really don't like focusing on the details on the robbery. However, I do like it when everyone is on the same page as it pertains to what is and isn't known. Does him stealing cigars make me think that he was a dangerous criminal that would charge a police officer? No. But I am confused about why there is doubt as to whether or not it happened.
As I understood it, there seems to be a bit of confusion out there in terms of what happened prior to the footage of him shoving the clerk out of the way. I thought I read at one point that he either did pay for or attempted to pay for a pack of cigars (or cigarillos), and ended up taking a box. Regardless of whether a customer called the police or the people working at the shop, a police report was filed to the effect of a box of Swisher Sweets being stolen. That was released in the information packet Chief Wiggum put out there when he decided that the situation wasn't incendiary enough on Friday.
Also, Johnson's lawyer admitted that cigars were taken:
Again, I post this not to further a "he was a thief and ruffian and I bet he instigated something with the cop" narrative. I'm just confused as to how we got to quibbling over whether or not he even stole cigars, because I thought it was largely agreed that this was true but irrelevant given that Wilson didn't confront him (at least initially, probably not even at all) as a result of that theft.
As I understood it, there seems to be a bit of confusion out there in terms of what happened prior to the footage of him shoving the clerk out of the way. I thought I read at one point that he either did pay for or attempted to pay for a pack of cigars (or cigarillos), and ended up taking a box. Regardless of whether a customer called the police or the people working at the shop, a police report was filed to the effect of a box of Swisher Sweets being stolen. That was released in the information packet Chief Wiggum put out there when he decided that the situation wasn't incendiary enough on Friday.
Also, Johnson's lawyer admitted that cigars were taken:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown said:
Again, I post this not to further a "he was a thief and ruffian and I bet he instigated something with the cop" narrative. I'm just confused as to how we got to quibbling over whether or not he even stole cigars, because I thought it was largely agreed that this was true but irrelevant given that Wilson didn't confront him (at least initially, probably not even at all) as a result of that theft.
And you can bet any black jurors will be struck for "reasons."
Nabs
Member
Correction: instead of a white cop getting hurt.
ab.aeterno
Member
Did you know that in other developed countries, it's possible for police officers to defend themselves without having to pull out a gun and empty half a clip into someone that was, by many eye witness accounts, surrendering?
Neoriceisgood
Member
Well then.
And most sane people agree with that. But that doesn't mean that what you said here:
is not also factually incorrect. Arguing that he didn't allegedly commit a crime only detracts from the important issues to be discussed.
Why is it better that he's dead instead of the cop?
Eyemus Lutt
Member
The dude was a giant that pushed the shop owner like he was nothing,
Better the robber than a cop with a great record.
One of the guys who helped perform the autopsy said that the shot to his arm could've happened as he was running away, with his back turn. But as far as I know, all other shots were to his front. Which would be consistent with the eyewitnesses.
It needs to be said that the chief would not know if Wilson had a clean record because the reports of excessive force and disciplinary action are not kept in his personnel file in the Ferguson police department, they are put in the individual case files he was involved in. It is possible he had a clean record before he killed Brown (though we wouldn't know it to be certain). It's probably also worth noting that Brown also had a clean record before he robbed a store.
Like most things about this case, there is alot of incorrect information being passed around. Thanks to people like Youngblood for taking a second to actually post correct information on it.
Doesn't change the fact it has no bearing on the slaying of Brown. But I know you just wanted to say something smart and snazzy.
Thanks for that, sir.
AwakenedCloud
Member
For the most part that's true, but the robbery would play into Brown's demeanor in his confrontation with Wilson. Even though Wilson didn't know about the robbery, I'd expect Brown to think he did, and for him to treat the situation differently because of it.
Yet again, I'm in no way justifying what happened, but it does does have some relevance to the confrontation.
I don't know that dog piling on that comment is fair. "Better him than the cop" refers to being killed, which means IF his life were truly in danger he prefers the attacker be dead instead of the victim. He even said if. So I don't know that that's a controversial desire in any case.
CharminUltra
Member
Please tell us more.
acheron_xl
Member
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