Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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i love how MSM runs their Ferguson coverage with headlines making the cops as victims rather than reporting in depth about what happens to the protesters. it's such a joke how useless MSM is compared to livestreams and social media. its like MSM ignores 90% of what is really going on in favor to run half truths and the same stories over and over.
 
Doesn't really explain why someone would charge at a dude shooting at him though. :-/

Right. It makes absolutely no sense. But as wildly implausible as that would seem, what I'm saying is that if all of a sudden video footage emerges of Wilson firing at an advancing Brown, this case is dead. He probably wouldn't even be charged, let alone convicted of anything, particularly if he sustained earlier injury.
 
Right. It makes absolutely no sense. But as wildly implausible as that would seem, what I'm saying is that if all of a sudden video footage emerges of Wilson firing at an advancing Brown, this case is dead. He probably wouldn't even be charged, let alone convicted of anything, particularly if he sustained earlier injury.

True. True.

That wouldn't sweep the police brutality and over abundance of force to the protesters under the rug of course, which this whole thing has been useful to expose.

This is sarcasm, right?

Right?

I totally agree with him. It was shoplifting AT BEST.
 
This is where we are now. Apparently it's better for a black man to be killed than a cop to possibly be in a fight.

Person being killed > person being beat up

Let that sink in.

If the story is true that Michael Brown punched the cop in the face and then later charged at him then YES it is better for ANY MAN independent of race to be shot. Why should cops be required to get into fist fights because jackasses need to act tough and try to fight them? And you act like people can't be severely injured in a fist fight. Ever seen the effects of a head bouncing off the street? Not to mention if you hesitate and let him assault you, then you potentially lose your gun and are now at a huge disadvantage. Yeah fuck that.

What means of non-lethal force would you have preferred? I live outside of Baltimore and people bitch incessantly about cops using tazers.

And if it comes out to be true that he had his hands up and surrendered and got shot, then yeah its murder.
 
Right. It makes absolutely no sense. But as wildly implausible as that would seem, what I'm saying is that if all of a sudden video footage emerges of Wilson firing at an advancing Brown, this case is dead. He probably wouldn't even be charged, let alone convicted of anything, particularly if he sustained earlier injury.

I think all bets are off as to what is/isn't plausible in this situation. Nothing would surprise me now.

If the story is true that Michael Brown punched the cop in the face and then later charged at him then YES it is better for ANY MAN independent of race to be shot. Why should cops be required to get into fist fights because jackasses need to act tough and try to fight them? And you act like people can't be severely injured in a fist fight. Ever seen the effects of a head bouncing off the street? Not to mention if you hesitate and let him assault you, then you potentially lose your gun and are now at a huge disadvantage. Yeah fuck that.

What means of non-lethal force would you have preferred? I live outside of Baltimore and people bitch incessantly about cops using tazers.

Stuff of note:
No signs of a struggle on Brown, aka it's almost impossible that he punched/hit Wilson at all
Wilson should've never drawn his firearm in the first place, this was not a life threatening situation until he escalated it
Tasers are absolutely preferable to guns, so deal with it Baltimore
 
I never said one should not feel sorry for what happened but i just don't buy this "people make mistakes but it only becomes an issue when...." framing, because only a fraction of the population is willing to commit robbery and such an act is a red flag for someone like myself and makes me suspicious as to what the person did when he ends up being offed by an officer. This is perhaps not a fair starting point but it is my raw reaction. If I had a troubled past with law enforcement I would probably see this differently but i don't. ..

I don't agree with police releasing the footage but it is also not productive when people rile up the community with their unsubstantiated claims.

I can almost promise you know a number of people that have stolen small items under $50 before.

I've stolen batteries a number of times in the past and I'm an otherwise law abiding, college educated, white citizen and I can assure you there is no reality where I would reach for a cops gun and/or charge him headlong into his bullets from 35 feet away while he's firing at me.
 
Why does a county police need a tactical team?
Do they have a tank division too? artillery?

Well if there was a hostage situation would you rather they wait for the state police or national guard to make it there? Or be able to have a fighting chance of responding?

And the tactical teams as far as I know are typically cops that have been trained for these situations. Its not like they're just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs for a few years in case something else happens.
 
It's a highly implausible story given the information we are privy to now, but if both of the following happened:

A.) He sustained serious injuries during an initial altercation before Brown retreated.

and

B.) There are multiple eyewitnesses corroborating that he continued to advance despite warnings as though he didn't perceive the officer as a threat.

...

Again, I want to make it clear that this isn't an "I'm starting to believe Wilson's account more than the other eyewitnesses" post. I'm just saying that if that's where the dust ultimately settles, then I think a different conversation results. I think there's still a dialog worth having in terms of training police in less lethal tactics for subduing suspects. But we can't pretend that the conversation is unchanged if we ultimately transition from a story wherein an unarmed man is shot at while fleeing and gunned down after surrendering to a story wherein an unarmed man attacks officer while trying to take his gun, temporarily flees, and then doubles back to charge at officer that is now perceived as less threatening due to sustaining injury.

What you're describing is basically what I was assuming was the most likely explanation based on what we initially knew, (Only because the alternatives seemed insane) and why I initially was really hesitant to get on board with vilifying Wilson. In particular, if Wilson's head injury made it difficult for him to see (perhaps with blood flowing in his eyes... after all, even minor head injuries can bleed like hell), I could imagine him using excessive force simply because he couldn't tell if he was hitting.

What kinda threw this theory out the window for me (or at least very nearly did) is seeing that he hit him six times. That doesn't go along too well with him being dizzy and/or blinded... those are pretty accurate shots (especially if his hands were raised beside his head, as the shot pattern sure looks consistent with to my untrained eyes).

Basically, I was ready to understand the officer not being arrested IF he had difficulty seeing AND Mike was charging at him. It really seems hard to believe he was blinded or dazed if he could still shoot like that, and it almost makes Mike charging him irrelevant to me. Especially if he charged after already being shot as a last resort.
 
Well if there was a hostage situation would you rather they wait for the state police or national guard to make it there? Or be able to have a fighting chance of responding?

And the tactical teams as far as I know are typically cops that have been trained for these situations. Its not like they're just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs for a few years in case something else happens.

Trained for crowd control? Didn't look like it the way they pointed guns at literally anyone.
 
No, what was said?

Just heard it watching the news, haven't found a link yet.

Hopefully we can find a link because it has to be heard.

Some excerpts: "he must have been on something", "Brown said 'what are you going to do? shoot me?' and then charged"

"Wilson realized they must be the robbery suspects after driving away initially"
 
Just heard it watching the news, haven't found a link yet.

Hopefully we can find a link because it has to be heard.

Some excerpts: "he must have been on something", "Brown said 'what are you going to do? shoot me?' and then charged"

"Wilson realized they must be the robbery suspects after driving away initially"

It was posted early in the thread, it was in fact the first time Wilson's account of the story got out. Can't find the link though.
 
anyone know what got ronito banned?

I live my life where I have friends of many races. I live my life where I respect and treat everyone as equal. The various types of racism can hurt anyone, of ANY race when it happens to them, so we need to evolve past that. You should feel that way because it's going to take everyone to view something together to fix it, and not that it hurts someone of a different skin color more than others either, bud. And maybe we can finally fully remove it from our society.



Yes, I have friends and co-workers who are a "minority" and talked about it.

How upset would you be if you saw a pic of a Black American officer doing the same thing to the same race of people, or are they converted? When I see a Black American officer taking a White American into custody, I usually think "I wonder what crime that guy did", not "it's racism".

Calling me sheltered, then basically saying ALL LEOs (ALL) treat other races unfairly insults me personally because I was never racist. But when I read "racism is institutionalized", I should have probably moved on.

Also if 1 Molotov has been thrown, that's enough to warrant escalated awareness and force. There's no magical number of Molotov's that need to be thrown to use "x" force. We know multiple were used, and that's all that matters. If they don't have an exact number, who cares. lol.

Anyways, I hope tomorrow settles down, for ALL sides.

EDIT: I don't really like using the word, as once again that word is used in a different way that it's true meaning, a lesser population/demo, so I throw it in quotations. It's a quirk of mine. Once again, I have friends and co-workers of different color throughout my life, and I look at them no better nor worse than myself.



That's in your opinion. I have been anything but sheltered, but that's none of your business to why I'm not. My POV, thoughts, opinions are worth no more, or less than your own bud.
dude, i know this was posted a few pages ago, but if your first reaction to seeing "institutionalized racism" is to stop reading. You need to go look up the definition of institutionalized racism, then do some research on institutionalized racism, then take a look at current society. And if you are still inclined to stop reading when you see "institutionalized racism" then you should probably take a look at yourself and your thoughts and actions.

Eyewitness accounts aren't even very reliable sometimes.

Brown's friend, Dorian, initially said the officer shot him in the back which was disproven by the autopsy.
no, the witnesses have said he jerked, like he was shot in the back.
 
Does it really matter which story is correct? Even if you believe they struggled, the shots occurred after they separated. Sounds like the policeman got a little too caught up in subduing Brown and used his gun to bring him down

I just don't understand why the cop had to shoot him... is there really no other way to subdue him? Was calling for backup not an option?

I'm not sure I understand the scenario where Michael Brown charged the cop. Did he supposedly get into a fight at the car, run away and then run back at him?

Let me be clear: I'm in no way suggesting that any of these scenarios apply to Michael Brown's situation, but there seems to be a lot of ignorance on how fast things can turn to shit for a police officer.

These could be any traffic stop, and can potentially be every traffic stop/ subject stop.

In no way am I suggesting that this what happened in Ferguson, this is to try to help people understand what cops face every day. And maybe shed light on the fact that some people ARE so bold as to fight with police, despite what a reasonable person would think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=revQfB-OM14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSFpwGrmjvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB47ITL1StU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qewue_JlvHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vpjPyceH8
 
Stuff of note:
No signs of a struggle on Brown, aka it's almost impossible that he punched/hit Wilson at all
Wilson should've never drawn his firearm in the first place, this was not a life threatening situation until he escalated it
Tasers are absolutely preferable to guns, so deal with it Baltimore

Whether that version happened or not, my response was to somebody questioned a dead person was preferable to a cop in a fight. I don't disagree the story sounds shady from the law side of things; however, the original story also said he was shut in the back and now that has been ruled out. So seems to me there is some level of uncertainty from both sides. And now the FBI and Justice department need time to conduct their investigations.

They would be doing everyone a disservice to jump into filing charges before they're finished.
 
Well if there was a hostage situation would you rather they wait for the state police or national guard to make it there? Or be able to have a fighting chance of responding?

And the tactical teams as far as I know are typically cops that have been trained for these situations. Its not like they're just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs for a few years in case something else happens.

I'm not up to date on how the police system works in the US but here if there's an hostage situation local police wouldn't go anywhere near it and (the equivalent of) the state (state not federal) police would deal with it.
 
Trained for crowd control? Didn't look like it the way they pointed guns at literally anyone.

I didn't say they were trained well. I'm merely saying I understand their purpose. Doesn't mean I agree with their deployment or how things have been handled in this instance. Just that I would much rather have my municipality have one should the need arises than wait god knows how long for one to show up from elsewhere.
 
I never said one should not feel sorry for what happened but i just don't buy this "people make mistakes but it only becomes an issue when...." framing, because only a fraction of the population is willing to commit robbery and such an act is a red flag for someone like myself and makes me suspicious as to what the person did when he ends up being offed by an officer. This is perhaps not a fair starting point but it is my raw reaction. If I had a troubled past with law enforcement I would probably see this differently but i don't. ..

I don't agree with police releasing the footage but it is also not productive when people rile up the community with their unsubstantiated claims.
Lol I don't have a criminal record whatsoever. You don't need to be a felon or ex-felon to see this from my POV.

You're still missing my point, btw.
 
It changes everything. A person can cover twenty feet in about 1.5 seconds. Assuming the gun was already out (based on reports the cop either shot as he ran away or had it aimed), there is no time to switch to a taser or something non-lethal. Especially if he thought Brown was going for his gun again. He could justifiably feel his life was in danger in that split second he had to react. There is no partner or backup on site to help him against a large individual.

A 6'4 300 pound man can cover 20 feet in 1.5 seconds??? Them fast twitch muscle fibers man....
 
RE: the autopsy

since there seems some confusion.

Mike was shot 6 times. He had entry wounds in his arm and head. The last 2 shots were to the head, the very last, and only one that was absolutely fatal, entering above his brow line exiting his chin and reentering near his collarbone.

The entry wounds on the arm do not rule out the possibility he was shot from behind and most likely rule out any struggle for the firearm due to lack of residue on his body but we'll know for certain once his clothing is examined.
 
A 6'4 300 pound man can cover 20 feet in 1.5 seconds??? Them fast twitch muscle fibers man....

Some can, some can't. I'm not talking about Brown and it is pretty clear that I am just talking about the reaction time in situations like this. People go he could have done this or that, but there is no time to think that.

A life or death decision is made in the time it takes to read this sentence.

The 1.5 seconds comes from the tested time it takes for a person (usually with a knife) to approach someone with a holstered weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill Is something officers use to practice a charging individual.
 
A 6'4 300 pound man can cover 20 feet in 1.5 seconds??? Them fast twitch muscle fibers man....

All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.
 
Well if there was a hostage situation would you rather they wait for the state police or national guard to make it there? Or be able to have a fighting chance of responding?

And the tactical teams as far as I know are typically cops that have been trained for these situations. Its not like they're just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs for a few years in case something else happens.

If I'm held hostage in Ferguson, please do not call these dumbasses. Also don't call the national guard.

FBI HRT
State HRT

In that order.

I would rather not be "rescued"
killed
by some wannabe soldiers who think they are in Afghanistan.
 
Let me be clear: I'm in no way suggesting that any of these scenarios apply to Michael Brown's situation, but there seems to be a lot of ignorance on how fast things can turn to shit for a police officer.

These could be any traffic stop, and can potentially be every traffic stop/ subject stop.

In no way am I suggesting that this what happened in Ferguson, this is to try to help people understand what cops face every day. And maybe shed light on the fact that some people ARE so bold as to fight with police, despite what a reasonable person would think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=revQfB-OM14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSFpwGrmjvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB47ITL1StU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qewue_JlvHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vpjPyceH8

I will quote this because I'dlike to wait and know what happened.

Smh at people who say there is no reason to shoot an unarmed person. Unarmed people can kill you. They can grab your gun or beat you to death.

I think the chance something like this happened in this case is small, but I'm unwilling to condemn the police man before a trial with evidence from both sides.
 
All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.

Michael Brown was about to be drafted to the NFL.
 
All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.

That's really not a particularly fast sprint, at all. Running a mile involves maintaining that pace for about 150 times as long, so not really comparable. Anyway, I think the original point was just that people can cover distances faster than you might intuitively expect, which is true.
 
I will quote this because I'dlike to wait and know what happened.

Smh at people who say there is no reason to shoot an unarmed person. Unarmed people can kill you. They can grab your gun or beat you to death.

I think the chance something like this happened in this case is small, but I'm unwilling to condemn the police man before a trial with evidence from both sides.

Gotta agree with you, on pretty much all of that.

I will say the situation appears to me has been handled poorly by police though, which makes things look real bad there. But again, I don't have all the information.
 
All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.
Okay this post is terrible
 
Just caught up some news of CNN.

What are GAF's thoughts on the 2 differing accounts of events from witnesses and the Policeman's Friend?

There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe Wilson's friends story as of yet given the forensic evidence. Though we have very little forensic evidence to go on.
 
RE: the autopsy

since there seems some confusion.

Mike was shot 6 times. He had entry wounds in his arm and head. The last 2 shots were to the head, the very last, and only one that was absolutely fatal, entering above his brow line exiting his chin and reentering near his collarbone.

The entry wounds on the arm do not rule out the possibility he was shot from behind and most likely rule out any struggle for the firearm due to lack of residue on his body but we'll know for certain once his clothing is examined.

It absolutely does. Other than having NFL rushing speed, he was also known for walking around with his palms facing forward. Also don't forget the psychotic effects of THC
 
Just caught up some news of CNN.

What are GAF's thoughts on the 2 differing accounts of events from witnesses and the Policeman's Friend?

From where I sit, I see multiple eye witnesses VS a vague account from Wilson and an account from a friend of a friend of Wilson's.

Right now, I believe the eyewitnesses. But we need more information. If evidence shifts towards the other accounts, I won't hesitate to say that the shooting may have been justified.
 
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