Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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From NYTimes:

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JSizzle said:
If the story is true that Michael Brown punched the cop in the face and then later charged at him then YES it is better for ANY MAN independent of race to be shot. Why should cops be required to get into fist fights because jackasses need to act tough and try to fight them? And you act like people can't be severely injured in a fist fight. Ever seen the effects of a head bouncing off the street? Not to mention if you hesitate and let him assault you, then you potentially lose your gun and are now at a huge disadvantage. Yeah fuck that.
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Jesus, altercation with an officer deserves being shot? What the fuck. It's not a capital fucking crime, and even those at least get the benefit of due process in a court room. Why couldn't he have subdued him with other means? The entire fucking issue here is that police in America seem to go for their gun first, instead of anything else. Let me ask you a question, and please answer it: do you see this happening in other Western countries? Do they often have officers with guns who discharge them in an altercation?

JSizzle said:
What means of non-lethal force would you have preferred? I live outside of Baltimore and people bitch incessantly about cops using tazers.
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Holy shit, are you really saying that because people complain about tasers (and let's be honest, they're complaining about their overuse on people that probably don't warrant it), then it naturally follows the only other option is lethal fucking force?

I'm pretty sure if you could ask Mike Brown or his family, they'd have preferred a taser to a death sentence. Like holy balls at acting as though it wouldn't have been preferable in this situation because people might complain.

Also, what about mace, or a baton?
 
If Brown charged the officer, we won't be talking about how fast he could cover the distance. The officer will be cleared. Additionally, the officer's perception of the danger Brown posed would also be off the table as the charging would reinforce the officer's judgment. I don't think that's fair legally because we should still be asking if shooting Brown as he fled was justified, but the reality is I don't see any way the officer is charged if the officer's version of events is established by the evidence.

This is not me playing devil's advocate. This is just me saying that if Brown charged, even though I find that extremely unlikely, there won't be significant questions of fact.
 
Punchy4486 said:
I can almost promise you know a number of people that have stolen small items under $50 before.

I've stolen batteries a number of times in the past and I'm an otherwise law abiding, college educated, white citizen and I can assure you there is no reality where I would reach for a cops gun and/or charge him headlong into his bullets from 35 feet away while he's firing at me.
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There is a difference between stealing something as a minor, a 13 year old taking a candy bar or batteries, and committing a robbery as an adult when one should understand the consequences. It is a felony not some innocent part of growing up and doing silly things.
 
werks said:
It absolutely does. Other than having NFL rushing speed, he was also known for walking around with his palms facing forward. Also don't forget the psychotic effects of THC
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It actually absolutely does NOT.

The person who conducted the autopsy said that it did not. It's totally possible he was struck in the arm from behind.
 
Wouldn't it just be easier to shut down all the streets in a mile diameter, let people walk in the street, and just have officer star in lines in front of business to protect property? I don't understand why they have such a hard on for "STAY OUT OF THE STREET". Just shut the street down with barricades so no one can get down it, and you have a solved problem.
 
Punchy4486 said:
All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.
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A 40 yard dash is 120 feet, and lineman can do that in 4.8 - 5.3 seconds. Of course, they don't read their top speed until around 30 yards in.

Please don't equate running a mile with that as you're underestimating how short 20 feet is, that's 6 and 2/3 yards.
 
Punchy4486 said:
All in sandals too.

I did the math. To run that fast is the equivalent of running a 4 minute mile. Sorry, but I don't think Brown had that in him. Especially when accounting for having momentum in the opposite direction, pivoting, and going back the other way.
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That's about 9 miles per hour. Totally plausible in a sprint. (not taking sides, just pointing it out)
 
Ultrabum said:
I will quote this because I'dlike to wait and know what happened.

Smh at people who say there is no reason to shoot an unarmed person. Unarmed people can kill you. They can grab your gun or beat you to death.

I think the chance something like this happened in this case is small, but I'm unwilling to condemn the police man before a trial with evidence from both sides.
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Come on now...you want all the facts? That is not acceptable. Pick a side and run with it.
 
Abelian75 said:
That's really not a particularly fast sprint, at all. Running a mile involves maintaining that pace for about 150 times as long, so not really comparable. Anyway, I think the original point was just that people can cover distances faster than you might intuitively expect, which is true.
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I know. I was just having a bit of fun and taking it to an absurd length, but this probably not the time and place for it. Sorry everyone
 
Chums Knifeblade said:
I still see alot of people debating on where he stole it or strongarm robbed the store and it doesn't seem this video has been circulated enough. Unless this has been claimed fake or debunked, it seems to make sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
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According to the witness who was there, he tried to steal one (by passing it to his friend) while intending to pay for the others. The friend's actions support that.
 
SpyGuy239 said:
Just caught up some news of CNN.

What are GAF's thoughts on the 2 differing accounts of events from witnesses and the Policeman's Friend?
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well you have more than two people relaying the same account for Brown's side, CNN had other people directly on their channel yesterday as well. even tho eye witness trstimonies are unreliable, you have independent eye witnesses giving the same account.

then..

you have Wilson's friend "Josie" who WAS NOT at the scene, but is simply relaying the version of Wilson's account. with no other witnesses who have come out to corroborate that account aside from Wilson.


so i fail to see how theres a difference of accounts, it seems there's a consistent account and one differing account that isnt corroborated by anyone else at the scene.
 
J-Rzez said:
I live my life where I have friends of many races. I live my life where I respect and treat everyone as equal. The various types of racism can hurt anyone, of ANY race when it happens to them, so we need to evolve past that. You should feel that way because it's going to take everyone to view something together to fix it, and not that it hurts someone of a different skin color more than others either, bud. And maybe we can finally fully remove it from our society.



Yes, I have friends and co-workers who are a "minority" and talked about it.

How upset would you be if you saw a pic of a Black American officer doing the same thing to the same race of people, or are they converted? When I see a Black American officer taking a White American into custody, I usually think "I wonder what crime that guy did", not "it's racism".

Calling me sheltered, then basically saying ALL LEOs (ALL) treat other races unfairly insults me personally because I was never racist. But when I read "racism is institutionalized", I should have probably moved on.

Also if 1 Molotov has been thrown, that's enough to warrant escalated awareness and force. There's no magical number of Molotov's that need to be thrown to use "x" force. We know multiple were used, and that's all that matters. If they don't have an exact number, who cares. lol.

Anyways, I hope tomorrow settles down, for ALL sides.

EDIT: I don't really like using the word, as once again that word is used in a different way that it's true meaning, a lesser population/demo, so I throw it in quotations. It's a quirk of mine. Once again, I have friends and co-workers of different color throughout my life, and I look at them no better nor worse than myself.



That's in your opinion. I have been anything but sheltered, but that's none of your business to why I'm not. My POV, thoughts, opinions are worth no more, or less than your own bud.
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No one said all cops are racists. I've met plenty of friendly cops of many ethnicities, actually. I've even met SWAT people before and it didn't seem like they wanted to blow my head off at the mere sight of me.

This isn't even about "cops" for me. It's about a dumbass, trigger-happy over-dramatic man with a gun who happens to be a police officer in Ferguson, who handled a situation with a young black man very, very poorly.

He may not have shot Brown b/c he was black, yes. But at the very least, the history of white officers killing black people in America, and the optics of this scenario just adding to that, is not good and the factors that came about in prior scenarios are at least applicable here until more facts come about.
 
Do the people using the term "lynch mob" to describe what's happening to Darren Wilson understand why they probably should stop. Holy shit.

I saw it on Fox News yesterday and on twitter now.

MediaBuzz host Howard Kurtz joined Fox News’ Megyn Kelly Monday night and the two spent a few minutes going after “liberal outlets” like The Huffington Post and MSNBC for what Kurtz called a “lynch mob mentality” in their coverage of the Michael Brown shooting and subsequent protests in Ferguson, Missouri.

“I’ll tell you something else that I’m concerned about and that is some liberal outlets creating almost a lynch mob mentality around this,” Kurtz said. As an example, he cited the “screaming banner headline” shown below that appeared on The Huffington Post earlier today
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http://www.mediaite.com/tv/foxs-kel...-sharpton-of-lynch-mob-mentality-on-ferguson/

You'd think they'd understand that type of language might not be acceptable in this case.
 
block tower said:
well you have more than two people relaying the same account for Brown's side, CNN had other people directly on their channel yesterday as well. even tho eye witness trstimonies are unreliable, you have independent eye witnesses giving the same account.

then..

you have Wilson's friend "Josie" who WAS NOT at the scene, but is simply relaying the version of Wilson's account. with no other witnesses who have come out to corroborate that account aside from Wilson.


so i fail to see how theres a difference of accounts, it seems there's a consistent account and one differing account that isnt corroborated by anyone else at the scene.
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The only thing at the scene is the background talking on the one Youtube video where someone off camera claims Brown was going towards the police.
 
ab.aeterno said:
Jesus, altercation with an officer deserves being shot? What the fuck. It's not a capital fucking crime, and even those at least get the benefit of due process in a court room. Why couldn't he have subdued him with other means? The entire fucking issue here is that police in America seem to go for their gun first, instead of anything else. Let me ask you a question, and please answer it: do you see this happening in other Western countries? Do they often have officers with guns who discharge them in an altercation?


Holy shit, are you really saying that because people complain about tasers (and keys be honest, there complaining about their overuse on people that probably don't warrant it), then it naturally follows the only other option is lethal fucking force?

I'm pretty sure if you could ask Mike Brown or his family, they'd have preferred a taser to a death sentence. Like holy balls at acting as though it wouldn't have been preferable in this situation because people might complain.

Also, what about mace, or a baton?
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If you're stupid enough to attack an arm police officer with a gun aimed at you, then let darwin do his work. It doesn't matter if attacking a police officer doesn't get you death in courts, there is a little thing called self defense. They have to make a split second decision and if they wait it may be too late. With no backup, if you miss with your tazer shot you may not have a second chance. Its not like it is one of those NYC situations where multiple cops opened fire. He was all by himself, make the wrong decision and you may not be coming home that night.

And do police even get to carry batons any more? That also got ruled out because of police brutality.

And no they don't complain about over use for tazers. They whine because a few idiots with heart issues have tried to fight the police and got tazed and died.

With that said, i'm still all for cops having to wear cameras so there is no question what happened. And if Michael Brown surrendered it was murder. However if he charged the police officer with a gun aimed at him, it was stupidity. It is quite simple, don't fight the fucking police and put your own life in jeopardy.
 
Dead black youths are always getting accused of behaving in a wild, bestial manner right before they get shot.
Yes, the crazed negro brute charged the armed officer in a fit of psychotic rage and the cop, rightly fearing for his life, stood his ground. Like George Zimmerman
 
theignoramus said:
Dead black youths are always getting accused of behaving in a wild, bestial manner right before they get shot.
Yes, the crazed negro brute charged the armed officer in a fit of psychotic rage and the cop, rightly fearing for his life, stood his ground. Like George Zimmerman
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Fuckin A this post got a smile out of me.
 
Until eyewitnesses can back up what Wilson is saying, I'm not going to pretend it makes sense. Because it doesn't. It's illogical that he'd be running away and decide to attack an officer for what he probably just thought was shoplifting. How many people actually knew what strong-arm robbery was and whether or not it was a felony in the first place? And his first reaction after being told to get off the road and onto the sidewalk is to reach for the officer's gun? Really. That sounds unbelievable.

But if it turns out that somehow some 12 others saw what happened and can attest to Wilson's side of the story then there is no case. There will be no charges.
 
theignoramus said:
Dead black youths are always getting accused of behaving in a wild, bestial manner right before they get shot.
Yes, the crazed negro brute charged the armed officer in a fit of psychotic rage and the cop, rightly fearing for his life, stood his ground. Like George Zimmerman
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Remember, he ran away from the cop too, then about 40 feet later after he was getting shot at, he decided to turn around and charge at the cop.

I am sorry, but I dont know how that passes anyone's BS test.
 
FiggyCal said:
Until eyewitnesses can back up what Wilson is saying, I'm not going to pretend it makes sense. Because it doesn't. It's illogical that he'd be running away and decide to attack an officer for what he probably just thought was shoplifting. How many people actually knew what strong-arm robbery was and whether or not it was a felony in the first place? And his first reaction after being told to get off the road and onto the sidewalk is to reach for the officer's gun? Really. That sounds unbelievable.

But if it turns out that somehow some 12 others saw what happened and can attest to Wilson's side of the story then there is no case. There will be no charges.
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I agree, it is fishy as hell. Why would you randomly decide to punch a cop in the face and push him back in a car either? That is why I stand by if he surrendered it was murder if he did all of that and charged an armed police officer it is stupidity. Because of how illogical it is. I am however interested in finding out where the early reports came from he was shot in the back since the autopsy disproved that. It is just another reason people need to give the FBI and Justice Department time to do their investigations. A rush to charge helps nobody except maybe Wilson.
 
BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
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Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the District Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.
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http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/19/ray-kelly-ferguson_n_5691739.html
Former NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly:

"The toothpaste is out of the tube here," Kelly told Bloomberg News. "There's lots of things that should have been done differently, and you have to live with them."

The department's first major misstep, Kelly told the paper, was not immediately releasing all of the information surrounding Brown's death. Telling the public what happened “certainly has the potential for quelling or lessening disturbances,” Kelly said. “You tell them what you know and tell them what you don’t know, rather than dribbling it out.”

Kelly also said it was "mind-boggling" that the Ferguson Police Department has 50 white police officers and just three black police officers in a town that's nearly 70 percent black.
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It's so bad that even someone as shitty as Ray Kelly won't support them.
 
I'm still curious about these 12+ witnesses the PD source supposedly mentioned. I wonder how many of these witnesses are actually eyewitnesses? I hope we find out soon.
 
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