Doctor Who Series 8 |OT| We've fucking time-travelled, yes?

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So good.

So fucking good.

It's such a great start for Capaldi's Doctor who gets it right in his first episode. I'm half drunk right now but the other half of me is sober enough to appreciate the work done in this episode.

I love the restaurant scene. It's a long scene and takes it's time to really establish the hesitant relationship between young Clara and the strange new old man who calls himself the Doctor. It's an obvious attempt to help some fans who were getting used to a young Doctor adjust to this new, older version. It's normal to use the existing companion as a gateway into understanding the new Doctor but it's especially important here as the change is so drastic.

The clockwork monsters were fun but they were really a throwaway villain. This episode is primarily about establishing the new Doctor and his dynamic with Clara. In that regard they really did knock it out of the park.

The extra time and the slower pacing of this episode are really suited to Capaldi while I think bombastic and fast pace of The Eleventh Hour was perfectly suited to Matt Smith. Moffat really knows what he's doing when it comes to introducing a new Doctor.

I'm glad the music throughout the episode wasn't as loud and crazy as some of Gold's previous work. They've cut things down here and allowed scenes to breath on the strength of the actors instead of punching it up with a big soundtrack.

There is a lot to extrapolate from this episode. For now I will just let it sink in.

Doctor Who is back!!

Interface23 said:
It's still airing in America
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Spoiler tagging stops after it airs in England. The rule works the same way for stuff that airs first in the states.
 
It's finished airing in the UK, though. Hence no need for spoiler tags as per the guidelines in the OP.

Capaldi fucking killed it. Still not a huge fan of Moffat's writing, but Capaldi was everything I hoped for and more. It's a sign I've watched too much of The Thick of It when I expect him to start calling everyone the c-word.

Really looking forward to seeing what he can do this season. Clara is still kinda 'meh' for me, but they had moments of brilliance together.
 
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PaintDoktahWho
 
Spaghetti said:
could not disagree more on this one. moffat indulges more with the paternoster lot. ep4 is where capaldi really gets to stretch his legs too.
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A lot of people really do seem to like it based on the script spoiler thread. For me (and I'm going to be as vague as possible but will black it out anyway as there's a spoiler of sorts in there),
the idea behind the story - aka what the Doctor is theorising about at the start - is kind of baggy to begin with, never nailing down exactly what it is he is hoping to achieve or what connects his initial theory with the part that drives the action, a particularly overdone cliche of childhood fears. The story thereafter bobs back and forth between different locations, playing the same note over and over again and intercut with Clara and Danny's situation, which does not ring true for a second in terms of how people, even nervous people, interact with each other. Same problem, albeit to a slightly lesser extent, as the Danny scenes in Into The Dalek.

Anyway, AND THIS IS A GENUINE IF UNSPECIFIC SPOILER, the ending expects us to buy that much of what happened up to that point was complete coincidence, making almost the whole episode a particularly meandering, directionless way for Moffat to write another of his series defining moments, which comes out of nowhere and does not inform or change the audience's appreciation of the character and his actions in any way other than a nice link back to a recent episode. It also feels like that point could've easily been reached without 90% of the stuff leading up to it. SPOILER END.

What I meant by my Love & Monsters comment was more that I suspect people like it because it's a bit experimental in parts, and does a Major Character Moment at the end, though for me the whole thing is far too loose in terms of storytelling and motivation and the key final scene is totally unearned and lacking justifiable context within the episode or bigger picture. In other words, it made me feel like I'd wasted 2/3rds of my time watching it - and I don't think it's ever explained how the pre-titles bit with the chalk and board happened either.
 
Well, I had a more negative reaction to the episode than most. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. It's maybe a 6 for me?

Part of the problem is that I've never really liked Clara. She's my second least favorite nuWho companion, ahead of only Martha. Add into that the long time it took for Capaldi to find his footing, and you have an episode where I'm kind of ambivalent about everyone.

The whisky scene does give me hope. It was a very nice scene, and hopefully a good look at who Twelve is, but I do feel like I don't have a handle of this Doctor the way I did with the previous few. With 9, 10 and 11 I knew who they were at the end of their first episode.

I think the
Eleven
scene showed that Moffet knew this would be a harder transition than the last few.

Well, I guess I'll see how the next episode goes. Hopefully I'll feel that 12 is more established.
 
xandaca said:
-snip-
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Ah, I can see where you're coming from now, fair enough ! I don't agree but that's a very fair point

As for the obvious ressemblance of the "girl who waited", i'm just thinking it's a reuse of filming location. Doubt they'de make it a link or something
 
Was kinda iffy about halfway through but it ended up being pretty good. Gonna be a few episodes before I decide if I like the new Doctor or not. It took a few episodes with all the others anyways, but the new one does look promising.
 
That was great.

"I think I'm going to have to kill you" was some shit I wasn't ready for.

The whole plot with the automatons was clearly all in service of the Doctor wondering if you're still even the same person if you've replaced all the parts.

The cameo was fantastic.

I love that they aren't glossing over the fact that he looks like the dude from Pompeii. Capaldi was also in Children of Earth, but the Doctor never saw that guy, as far as we know.
 
i enjoyed it, capaldi was great, and i say that as a fan of matt smith. he really seemed like a bewildered old alien that had just had his world turned upside down, was really effective.

one of the reasons i've hated a lot of moffat's previous stuff is his grandiose holier than thou approach to portraying the doctor, bigging him up in every scene, and playing that "epic" music every time he has a big moment.

so i was glad to see that the music was toned down, and a bit darker, and the doctor seemed a bit uncertain and feeble, compared to god-like as before. also enjoyed the ambigious suicide that may hint at something darker within the doctor.

and now that the typical played out love story with his companion has been resolved, we can finally just see the doctor and clara get on with the plot rather than flirting with each other for 50 minutes.

looking forward to the next episode!
 
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
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This is probably the worst post in this entire thread.
 
I rather enjoyed it myself, but there was some stuff that felt like padding. I thought the scene with Strax giving Clara the exam was almost entirely nonessential.

Completely sold on Capaldi though. Got some definite Troughton + Tom Baker flavors there. Not the Troughton that Matt nicked though. More his impishness. But he's a throwback to be certain.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
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Beyond the constantly being married reminders, I can't agree with any of this. Jeez.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on watching a show you so obviously hate? You've spewed nothing but venom about Moffat era Who if you don't like it by now you're not ever going to.
 
I really like Capaldi's Doctor so far. Clara was pretty great this episode as well actually. Looking forward to the rest of the series, but I'm going to avoid leaked episodes like the plague.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
Click to expand...

This post somehow makes me appreciate the episode more.
 
Loke13 said:
Why do you insist on watching a show you so obviously hate? You've spewed nothing but venom about Moffat era Who if you don't like it by now you're not ever going to.
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I still like some of the new episodes (mostly those Moffat didn't work on), so it's still worth it for me to watch the show. And, I've seen 800+ episodes of this series now, so I'm pretty committed to it. I love Doctor Who enough that I want to see all of it, even if some moments make my blood boil.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
What a load of shit. Terrible physical comedy, a dull plot, and really nothing good whatsoever. Quirky characters in a Victorian setting. Shaming of the female fans by telling them they only care about the Doctor because he looks good. Who thought that was a great idea?

The plot went nowhere, and it was constantly pausing for moments of poorly directed and ill-conceived physical comedy. More of Vastra, Strax and Jenny who are just completely awful (and how many times in a single episode do they need to state that Jenny and Vastra are married in dialogue between the two of them? It's ridiculous). Quirky mysteries happening behind the scenes! That scene with the veil just defied all comprehension.

The newspaper hitting Clara in the head might be one of the dumbest moments in the history of Doctor Who. And after spending a whole episode with introducing the new Doctor, they bring Matt Smith back for an extended scene at the end? That really was not well thought out. Capaldi was alright, and better than Smith, but he didn't really make any real impression on me.

If anyone thought that there was going to be a start of a new era, they were sadly mistaken. This was just more of the same excesses as the last two years. Murray Gold's score was even more bombastic than normal. It felt so generic.
Click to expand...

I'm not as down on it as this, but the bolded...yeah...really sick of that shit. I'll try and type out more coherent thoughts tomorrow. General verdict: entertaining, didn't hate it, but also did not do anything to convince me that Moffat has learned shit about his hangups and flaws. I feel like they just need some exterior, competent scriptwriter going over these screenplays before shooting.

I agree with the characterization of things as "excessive". One of Moffat's biggest weaknesses IMO, and this shows up in Sherlock too, is that he's really seduced by pointless indulgence, aka "fanservice"
 
Really enjoyed the episode even thoogh I read a bit of the script and watched the first 25 minutes of the leak. Luckily, I going into the rest of the season having only skimmed Moffat's guide.
 
acheron_xl said:
I rather enjoyed it myself, but there was some stuff that felt like padding. I thought the scene with Strax giving Clara the exam was almost entirely nonessential.
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Echoed my sentiments as well. Absolutely no problem with Capaldi and thought he did terrifically. But yes that exam part, I kept waiting for a payoff (as much as I love Strax) but didn't really get it. Also MAYBE a bit too much silliness right at the start with him falling into the tree and upside-down and all that, but that may just be me.

I think the Doctor's struggle with getting to the end of his life is a cool story to explore.
 
Well that was flat out fantastic. Capaldi's doctor is amazing. Loved seeing Vastra, Jenny and Strax in their element again. Never get tired of those characters.

This episode was exactly what it should have been about, barring some fun with monsters - the Doctor's mania during the change, which we got a little bit with David and not much more with Matt, and also Clara's,
well PTSD in dealing with the change.
 
Episode wasn't the greatest, but first doc episodes are always a bit wonky. I must say that I like the music much better. I hope it continues to stay away from that awful, over the top stuff murray gold usually puts out. The only part that was really out place was that awful slapstick sound effect when he got knocked out
 
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