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[Fine Ham Abounds]

What's the joke I'm missing about Vraska

 

[The Technomancer]

Okay enough negativity. I'm still excited for Time Heist, even if there have been some mixed impressions. Mummy on the Orient Express sounds like it could be a campy fun time, In the Forest of the Night sounds like something bizarre right out of the RTD era and Kill the Moon sounds...intriguing

Okay, no wait, last complaint: Flatline sounds utterly boring. Moffatism I forgot above: aliens who screw with your perception, allowing you to both show very little of them and also be "creepy" and "unnerving" again

 

[Sober]

That's kinda why I liked The Girl Who Waited, because that version of Amy had pretty much all the Moffat-y bits taken out of her the entire time.

 

[The Technomancer]

What's the joke I'm missing about Vraska

Ah shit, Magic: The Gathering had a character called Vraska last year who's a gorgon and I've been getting their names mixed up

 

[sprsk]

The MOTW was kinda shit and the episode overall was pretty bleh but I have high hopes for Capaldi as the doctor.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's kinda why I liked The Girl Who Waited, because that version of Amy had pretty much all the Moffat-y bits taken out of her the entire time.

Girl Who Waited is the closest Smith's run came to actually being critical of Smith's Doctor and not just paying lip service to being critical but then playing that loud bombastic music to let him be the badass hero

Spoiler

Thanks Kuwabara

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Girl Who Waited is the closest Smith's run came to actually being critical of Smith's Doctor and not just paying lip service to being critical but then playing that loud bombastic music to let him be the badass hero

Spoiler

Thanks Kuwabara

Yeah, The Girl Who Waited managed to actually mostly carry through on its themes and actually felt like there were some repercussions for the characters' actions in the story. About the only complaint I had was when they needed to fill out another ten minutes or so, so they had older Amy being a bad ass warrior, complete with slow motion robot slicing. It's a pacing issue, but I thought it did a little bit of a disservice to the rest of the episode.

But it was still part of the one bright spot in an otherwise poor season (the run of that through to Closing Time is probably my favorite part of the Moffat era).

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, The Girl Who Waited managed to actually mostly carry through on its themes and actually felt like there were some repercussions for the characters' actions in the story. About the only complaint I had was when they needed to fill out another ten minutes or so, so they had older Amy being a bad ass warrior, complete with slow motion robot slicing. It's a pacing issue, but I thought it did a little bit of a disservice to the rest of the episode.

But it was still part of the one bright spot in an otherwise poor season (the run of that through to Closing Time is probably my favorite part of the Moffat era).

S6 has such high highs and such low lows for me. I still think The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People is one of the best stories from Smith's run, a real classic sci-fi dilemma set in a contrasting setting with 11 getting up to some actually interesting stuff. But anything with the River song stuff...well my thoughts are known

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Woof. The beginning of this with Vastra preaching at Clara is as absolutely dire as it is transparent. Saved suprisingly only by Jenna's acting and Jenny of all things.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

S6 has such high highs and such low lows for me. I still think The Rebel Flesh/The Almost people is one of the best stories from Smith's run. But anything with the River song stuff...well my thoughts are known

Yeah, I really enjoyed The Rebel Flesh story. It had a lot more meat on it than most Moffat stories, even if it was hitting on fairly well worn science fiction tropes, and unlike most of the Moffat stories, I can actually remember the characters and that I gave a shit about them.

Those parts of Series 6 were some really nice highlights, but then you had all of the River Song garbage and Night Terrors, and the baby kidnapping plotline just really sucked any joy out of the season. Amy and Rory couldn't really remain likable everymen when they had just had their baby stolen from them and were just kind of going along on regular adventures.

Woof. The beginning of this with Vastra preaching at Clara is as absolutely dire as it is transparent. Saved suprisingly only by Jenna's acting and Jenny of all things.

It felt very much like sneering at the female fanbase as not being 'real fans' if they happen to think the Doctor might be attractive. Kind of uncomfortable viewing, especially in line of all Moffat's track record.

 

[Ser Goje]

Okay, I liked the episode, it was mediocore. But LOVED Capaldi, and I'm kind of gonna miss the fast pace style. Really enjoyed it. it took some time getting used to the first 20 minutes.

And I watched the eleventh hour before this to compare, and TLH is so much better. it just seemed like Moffat was just apologizing for the doctor being old then trying to tell the story. I didn't like that, also I think he mentioned Madame Vastra and Jenny being married for like five times, two in one sentence! Okay man we get it just move on.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It's a narrative disaster at the start, basically Moffat is apologizing for disappointing the fangirls, then childishly condemns them, then at the same time tries to introduce all these characters to the fifteen people seeing this in a theater who have never seen Doctor Who before

Do one thing right, not three things wrong, thanks

Edit: got to the part in the alley, Capaldi is reminding me so much of an angry Tom Baker fresh out of the box in Robot right now

 

[AlmostMilk]

 

[Quick]

Jenny. Art.

 

[Spectromixer]

Well this thread is going to be interesting to follow as the season progresses. Seems like the people who don't like Moffat are always more vocal than anyone else. I have enjoyed both Moffat and RTD's styles, there's differently good and bad things that stand out about both.

Anyone think this will be Moffat's last series seeing as RTD did 4 as well?

 

[fireside]

hey guys did you know that jenny and vastra are married? i kept forgetting, so i'm glad moffat repeated it throughout the episode.

also thanks for that scene of jenny posing because honestly what this episode needed was some blatant pandering.

and i'm really glad that the first bit of intimacy between jenny and vastra was vastra going mouth-to-mouth on jenny to save her life. i mean jeeze how much more romantic can you get? maybe next time they kiss we can have jenny doing cpr on vastra. perhaps vastra will have been drowning? just throwing out ideas here

...

Needless to say I wasn't a fan of the episode.

 

[Mutanthands]

Came together at the end. Confused Capaldi just didn't work for me. Vulnerable but fiesty and fully in control Calpaldi, I could get used to.

Spoiler

Was that the Rani? She reminded me of the Rani. Has to be the Rani.

 

[Slowdive]

Anyone think this will be Moffat's last series seeing as RTD did 4 as well?

Nah, he's already planning series 9.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

We have seen The Promised Land before.

The Girl Who Waited



Deep Breath

I knew we had seen that before.

Missy = Mistress = Master

Just my two cents. May have been mentioned already so sorry if I'm being redundant.

Heard that elsewhere, seems solid.


I loved Capaldi and for the first time liked Clara, they had real chemistry that Smith/Clara did not.


I'm more stoked than I have been since Smith stated. Even with Moffat-isms, I like this a lot more. Capaldi is so much more fun to watch.

Also, can we stop talking about episodes that haven't aired?

 

[Slowdive]

Just watched restaurant scene. This chick annoys me. Glad she quits after one season.

It's not been confirmed she's leaving.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Ok, I have to say I'm loving Capaldi in the role, and there is more chemistry between him and Jenna in one scene than in the last whole season.

I'm pretty easy to please honestly (I generally think RTD and Moffat seem to get many of the opposite things right and wrong), but the start of this episode wasn't a matter of bad Moffatisms, it was intolerable nearly fourth wall breaking blatherskite.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

The only part that was really out place was that awful slapstick sound effect when he got knocked out

I mean, if it was the sound of a piano dropping, that would've at least made sense.

 

[Freyjadour]

Another mediocre plot in a show with a lot of mediocre episodes to its name. Nothing surprising about that. Capaldi seems like he will be a great Doctor at least, with the ability to make the mediocre episodes to come worth wading through. That's all that really matters.

 

[dead souls]

Capaldi is great, but this was a boring episode. It totally wasn't worth the extended running time.

 

[caesar]

I stopped watching in S2 of Matt Smith's run, picked it up again because I know how good Capaldi is.

He was good obviously, definitely can't wait to see more. It seems Moffat's writing hasn't evolved at all though, more unnecessarily smart/obnoxious characters. 'The only poster I ever had was of a stoic philosopher so of course I don't care about boys you silly lizard.' Not the exact quote but yeah, please come on.

It works when you're writing a program like Sherlock, but it comes across just wrong here. I may be speaking from ignorance since I haven't really seen anything of Clara, but not a fan so far.

Didn't mind the plot, kind of silly but it's more about the identity crisis/regeneration thing anyway so I don't mind the throwaway villains etc. Capaldi definitely gives off the vibe of being an ageless and possibly unlimitedly intelligent being, yet also with great internal conflict.

So yeah, overall I am interested.

 

[Bluth54]

I loved Capaldi as the Doctor, however the episode itself was just okay. It wasn't nearly as good as The Eleventh Hour, but it did have some good and funny moments in it. I would probably put it about on par with David Tennant's first episode as the doctor.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing more of Capaldi as the Doctor.

Edit: I also though the whole Clara being upset over a new Doctor was kinda stupid. She's done the whole Impossible Girl thing were she's seen all the Doctors. Even if she can't remember that she did the 50th anniversary where she saw Hurt and Tennant. Regeneration should be much easier for her to accept then any other companion.

 

[Quick]

It was enjoyable, but the plot was definitely secondary to establishing the Doctor again.

Comedy was a bit too slapsticky, but it was hilarious anyway. They really pushed it with the sound effect when Vastra knocked the Doctor out. Strax throwing a newspaper at Clara's face and her banter with the Doctor inside the restaurant were probably the two funniest moments in the episode.

Despite being an episode that featured a new Doctor, it was also very much a Clara episode. Not quite Amy's Choice, but her acceptance of the Doctor's appearance was a big part of the episode.

Matt Smith's appearance was nice, but I think it would've made just as big an impact to have him just on the phone, rather than cutting in and out of Trenzalore.

If this is Jenna Coleman's last season, I hope they give Clara the character development she needs. I think Deep Breath was a step forward. We're done with the Impossible Girl plot and we've gotten the 50th Anniversary out of the way.

The second episode should really establish who the Doctor is. He's had Deep Breath to be mad and scrambled, and now he has the second episode to give us a look at him normalized.

The Doctor's outfit looks good. The inside of the jacket is a nice contrast for when he decides to flare it out. He looks really skinny in it, though. The 11th Doctor's outfit suits him well, too.

I'll be making some updates on the OP as the week goes on. Stay tuned!

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Well, to my surprise, I'm quite fond of Strax in this episode. Vastra and Jenny have largely reached the point of just being pandering window dressing, somehow worse than before.

By the end, I think Capaldi has potential to be up there with Eccleston for me already, and I was fairly concerned at first.

Final scene:

Spoiler

I hope so much that that is the Master... Mistress. The idea of the Master turning into evil Mary Poppins sounds pretty much perfect.

I'd agree this is about as weak in general as David Tennant's first episode.

 

[firehawk12]

As someone who skipped the previous Doctor, did they ship Clara and the Doctor really hard in the previous seasons? This "boyfriend" stuff is so weird.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

As someone who skipped the previous Doctor, did they ship Clara and the Doctor really hard in the previous seasons? This "boyfriend" stuff is so weird.

Actually no, which made that little part of the episode a little off. As people have said, it seemed to be more aimed at the fans than at the character.

 

[Fireblend]

As someone who skipped the previous Doctor, did they ship Clara and the Doctor really hard in the previous seasons? This "boyfriend" stuff is so weird.

What's with skipping the previous doctor? That's such a bad idea

Anyway, they were very flirtatious between the two of em. More so than with Amy during the first season. Plus they had to drive home the point that this *is* the Doctor and looking young was a sort of denial phase or something.

 

[Effect]

We have seen The Promised Land before.

The Girl Who Waited



Deep Breath

This is far to direct for there not to be a connection here. Even if they were just reusing a setting they'd might have used a different angle. Has anyone floated the idea that that

Spoiler

Missy could someone how be Clara or a version of her that resulted from The Name of the Doctor? Boyfriend was tossed around a lot in this episode and they were all related to her and the Doctor and then this woman embraces in that scene.

 

[Quick]

She did invite him to Christmas dinner and introduced him as her boyfriend to her family.

But generally, not quite. They flirted a bit, but nothing further than moments of winks and nods.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

As someone who skipped the previous Doctor, did they ship Clara and the Doctor really hard in the previous seasons? This "boyfriend" stuff is so weird.

Actually, I think this was a bit of late-game setup.

If you watch Time of the Doctor, you'll notice more than a couple bits where Eleven is outright referencing the idea he'd like to fuck Clara. Not as "ha, isn't it funny I'm joking about this" but "Huh - The Doctor seems excited about the idea of banging Clara."

I remember thinking that seemed sort of weird, but considering Moffat knew exactly where he was going with Twelve by that point, hindsight makes those weird moments a lot more clear now - Moffat's trying to slide in the idea that Clara being "The Impossible Girl" and saving the Doctor's life has led to a level of infatuation with her that went so far as The Doctor wanting to have sex with her, which he now has to utterly reject as Twelve, and by extension, he's rejecting all the "romantic Doctor" stuff old farts have been complaining about for awhile now.

It's pretty hamfisted, really. Which is why it's not resonating at all.

 

[Not]

Anyone think this will be Moffat's last series seeing as RTD did 4 as well?

We're all counting on it.

Though I liked the episode, mainly because of Capaldi.

 

[Bluth54]

We're all counting on it.

Though I liked the episode, mainly because of Capaldi.

Moffat does a fine job. At least most of his big cliffhanger resolutions aren't extremely shitty like RTD.

Also Moffat is going to do at least one more year. He said in an interview (or maybe DW Magazine) that he already knows what the cliffhanger will be that leads into the final episode next season.

 

[CorvoSol]

I thought this was a really good episode, actually. The Doctor didn't spend too long bemoaning the dead T-Rex (which has been done so many times), and I kinda liked that there was the simultaneous "screw you if you only liked him because he was pretty" and "screw you if you think that's the only reason I'm here."

Honestly, I felt this was the first time I really liked Clara as a character. Because although the whole "Impossible Girl" thing was still present, it felt less like that was all there was to define her. Rather, between her throwing the beatdown back in Vastra's face and her keeping her shit together while confronting the robots, I felt she finally got to do and say things beyond just being the impossible girl.

As someone who doesn't rewatch the show frequently, I also feel they did a great job of capturing the Doctor's feeling of "this is all so familiar" with the callbacks to episodes from Ten's run and Eleven with Amy.

And, although I think Vastra, Strax and Jenny are fun characters, I feel they've sort of overstayed their welcome. The Doctor has made so many trips to Victorian London at this point that he's there practically as often as he is modern England.

Still, I thought it was a great episode and I enjoyed that they played with both Clara and the Doctor getting used to his new appearance in a way that, while allowing fans to sort of cope and adjust, was much less overdramatic than "The Doctor is unconscious and Rose can't stop crying about how he's a new guy."

 

[firehawk12]

You know, I guess that above theory with "boyfriend" makes sense given the final scene in "Paradise".

Either way, I think I'm happy to have missed the Matt Smith era. lol

 

[caesar]

You know, I guess that above theory with "boyfriend" makes sense given the final scene in "Paradise".

Either way, I think I'm happy to have missed the Matt Smith era. lol

His first season was really good I thought, but then it fell off hard.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

We have seen The Promised Land before.

The Girl Who Waited



Deep Breath

My vote is for laziness.

My prediction is that we're looking at the inside of the Master's TARDIS

 

[Dryk]

I'm going to disagree with the thread and say I really liked the "Okay we're mainstream enough to stop trying to make you like us now. Time to do whatever the fuck we want" part.

I might be misremembering but I swear Clara remembered that the Doctor regenerated because I could swear she remembered all her incarnations saving each Doctor up to and including Smith's.

It probably never hits her until it happens to "her" Doctor. Humans are good at compartmentalising that sort of thing.

 

[Quick]

I like the new intro. The clock theme is a nice change from space/time vortex theme.

 

[M.Bluth]

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by the number of people here that didn't like it.
I thought it was great. Not huge on the Victorian setting, and I would have probably liked it more if it wasn't set there. But the rest of the elements make up for that.

Capaldi is awesome as expected, loved the range he's given to his Doctor, though I expect the delirious rants will end since his regeneration stabilized.
But the real surprise was definitely Clara. Moffat finally gave her decent material, and Jenna killed it. Restaurant scene and her standoff against the commander android were the highlights for me.

It probably never hits her until it happens to "her" Doctor. Humans are good at compartmentalising that sort of thing.

This. Also, sure she met the different Doctors, but she never went through a regeneration.

 

[JoeM86]

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by the number of people here that didn't like it.
I thought it was great. Not huge on the Victorian setting, and I would have probably liked it more if it wasn't set there. But the rest of the elements make up for that.

I agree. I'm a bit surprised at some of the comments going around the net, especially the "indulgent" one. I honestly don't get those complaints, and never have whenever people throw that word around.

It was a decent episode, it had its issues so it wasn't perfect, but it was decent and helped set things up.

I am looking forward to the rest of the season. Capaldi has yet to win me over, but Tennant and Smith didn't at first, and they turned out to be my two favourites.

 

[Walshicus]

What!? Eleventh Hour is up there as my top 5 Who episodes. At least of New Who.

Disliked it myself along with most of Smith's run.


Nobody else disappointed with them music in this episode?

 

[Mrdrboi]

Nah, he's already planning series 9.

I think Moffat will leave when Peter Capaldi run as the Doctor ends.

 

[ghstwrld]

it spends entirely too much time attacking and then begging fans to love the new old guy tbh

 

[Loke13]

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by the number of people here that didn't like it.
I thought it was great. Not huge on the Victorian setting, and I would have probably liked it more if it wasn't set there. But the rest of the elements make up for that.

Capaldi is awesome as expected, loved the range he's given to his Doctor, though I expect the delirious rants will end since his regeneration stabilized.
But the real surprise was definitely Clara. Moffat finally gave her decent material, and Jenna killed it. Restaurant scene and her standoff against the commander android were the highlights for me.


This. Also, sure she met the different Doctors, but she never went through a regeneration.

I agree I feel like people are being a bit harsh on the episode as far as episodes go that introduce the new Doctor this one is probably one of the best. I mean if we're comparing Deep Breath to Rose and the Christmas Invasion I'd say Deep Breath knocks both those out the water in fact I would say it's up there with The Eleventh Hour.

 

[Htown]

You know, I guess that above theory with "boyfriend" makes sense given the final scene in "Paradise".

Either way, I think I'm happy to have missed the Matt Smith era. lol

His first season is the best season of New Who period.

 

[Ferrio]

it spends entirely too much time attacking and then begging fans to love the new old guy tbh

Ya I wish they would of shown more why we should love him instead of telling us why.