Doctor Who Series 8 |OT| We've fucking time-travelled, yes?
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APZonerunner
Member
If you watched 1-4, I'd recommend watching the 50th episode - it deals with themes familiar to you and has Tennant - then jump right in at this series. If you like Smith in that, you can always consider going back. But for now, I'd suggest 50th, then check out Capaldi's first episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AYJpd5ZAQA
StealthGoblin
Banned
The filming and writing of the episode was heavily constrained too as it needed to be tagged on to another one or it could not have been made. Very massive budget implications for it.
Jex
Member
This seems about right. The first half of the episode was nearly unwatachable in terms of how jumbled and uneven it was.
I'd have to add to the things I disliked
- "awful action cinematography".
- The veil scene. I mean, what?
- Clara's reaction to a regeneration based off her experience.
JonathanEx
Member
For those interested in the titles, the guy behind them has updated his site.
How it happened: http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/742/
Storyboard (of between his version and the final): http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/doctor-who/
More videos and bits: http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/
How it happened: http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/742/
Storyboard (of between his version and the final): http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/doctor-who/
More videos and bits: http://billyhanshaw.co.uk/
RandyBobandy
Banned
I kinda hope we get a loud mouth companion again, like Donna for Capaldi
Jex
Member
You monster!
RandyBobandy
Banned
Donna forever!
Lynd7
Member
Just finished it. I thought it was mostly alright, it's not offensively bad.
The pacing was maybe a little off, I thought Capaldi's performance was good, sometimes even feeling a little season 12/13 Tom Baker. I like that tone.
Lets see what next week brings, regen stories are usually a prelude to the first real taste of things to come.
Also, Love and Monsters isn't a dreadful story, its has a lot of nice moments, pretty good as a Doctor lite ep.
The pacing was maybe a little off, I thought Capaldi's performance was good, sometimes even feeling a little season 12/13 Tom Baker. I like that tone.
Lets see what next week brings, regen stories are usually a prelude to the first real taste of things to come.
Also, Love and Monsters isn't a dreadful story, its has a lot of nice moments, pretty good as a Doctor lite ep.
davidcotton
Member
For those thinking that the 6.8 million rating is a little weak, to put it in context of the night the next show Casualty got 4.2 and the figures keep going down after that. Factor in the timeshifts and it'll be fine. For a bank holiday weekend that's fine.
Nose Master
Member
Agree on everything except for Clara. I thought she was pretty annoying in this episode. The trio of awful need to go, though. They're so bad.
Also, glad gaf is on that Jenny train. Other than her chimney sweep accept, she's ridiculously attractive. I was pretty salty when she went from that white dress to the butler suit again.
RandyBobandy
Banned
Isn't Strax really popular with kids? That's why he's so goofy
paradox121
Member
I've seen this brought up a lot, but bare in mind, at least as far as we know, Clara's never seen a regeneration. She's never been with one Doctor and then been faced with a totally different man. In fact, all she's done is briefly bump in to his previous selves.
Sure, she knows the basics of regeneration and that he could turn into anyone, but the 11th Doctor was an actual friend of hers, not just someone she bumped in to.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It's funny because I just heard a TV review podcast where the hosts wished that the three would get their own spinoff series.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
You could probably shoehorn them into a Victorian Torchwood if that brand wasn't toxic.
Yeah I agree with this post.
Also it was great to see the Scottish counsellor from Green Wing show up at the end there. I hope she's an important character for this season.
To anyone wondering if you need to watch previous episodes I'd say no
Like moffat said at one of the appearances, every time he regenerates its like it starts all over again. The great thing about Dr Who is he's always beginning. Or something like that.
So feel free to jump in, and catch up later on if you so wish. My dad hated matt smith, but started fresh with capaldi and he is fine, though he did watch the 50th Episode
Like moffat said at one of the appearances, every time he regenerates its like it starts all over again. The great thing about Dr Who is he's always beginning. Or something like that.
So feel free to jump in, and catch up later on if you so wish. My dad hated matt smith, but started fresh with capaldi and he is fine, though he did watch the 50th Episode
I don't mind the slapstick a little bit. it didn't feel like it was over the top or anything. I actually did laugh out loud at the news paper. I don't think deadpan super serious Dr. Who wouldn't work it's really never been that kind of show. I know. I'm a monster!
Also love the new design of the Tardis. It's finally starting to look like it's not all spray foam e-salvage!
Also love the new design of the Tardis. It's finally starting to look like it's not all spray foam e-salvage!
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Breath was pretty mediocre. Capaldi himself was pretty good though, and I did like his talk near the end with the cyborg. Moffat is finally trying to give Clara some kind of characterisation, so we'll see how that goes. Most of the dialogue in Vastra's house was excruciating though
Anyone else catch the Only Fools & Horses reference? RIP Trig.
Anyone else catch the Only Fools & Horses reference? RIP Trig.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The music was terrible. The new theme arrangement was awful (Murray has outdone himself again) and the soundtrack was really generic and bombastic.
I don't mind the idea (I actually really love Partners in Crime, which was directed very well and had some laugh out loud moments), but the physical comedy in this episode was really dumb and poorly directed, particularly with scenes like the newspaper hitting Clara in the head.
This pretty much, it gets boring watching companions drool over the Doctor since it has been done many times. That's probably why I didn't fully enjoy this episode since a lot of it is stuff I have already seen.
Hopefully things will improve now that the first episode is out of the way.
Not unlike the viewers themselves. It's one thing to know that the Doctor will inevitably be recast and replaced, as he has 11 times before, but it's another to actually watch and go through that regeneration yourself.
StealthGoblin
Banned
It's Moffat trying to have a bit of fun with the political situation.
The talk of his eyebrows being independently angry was quite funny I thought.
Incendiary
Banned
I just watched the episode and I really enjoyed it. A lot of people have already touched on what I liked and didn't like already, but I'll say my thoughts anyway.
-Loved Clara in this episode, felt like she had actual personality and was her own person and not a puzzle for the Doctor to solve. (Of course, I attribute that to the weird way season 7 was cut-up and kind of rushed her introduction.)
-Capaldi as the Doctor was great. "Attack eyebrows" and "Dormant." "How do you know?" "I don't, just hoping." both got me laughing. And then the delivery of "I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you" and then the entire conversation afterwards was just brilliant. Totally on board with the darker doctor.
-Strax was actually tolerable this episode, I normally don't like him that much. Even though it was the same shtick, it didn't feel as stuck in as other episodes, maybe because the overall length of the episode didn't have him stealing screen time from the Doctor. Him falling behind Jenny and Vastra was a great moment.
-Speaking of Jenny and Vastra, I'm really really really tired of Moffat's "hey look a lesbian relationship, hey look one's not human, look how progressive I am writing these characters into the show" winks and nods that he inserts every time they appear. We get it, they're happily married. Just have them act normal instead of having every interaction they have be a giant wink and play to the audience.
-Liked all the callbacks to older episodes, and seeing Matt one final time was a surprise and kind of cool. Even though his appearance was basically a "hey fans who only liked cute Doctors, an older Doctor can be cool too" statement.
-Cinematography was okay, not as great as some of the series 5 episodes. The dinosaur CGI wasn't bad by itself, but when it was combined with any sort of backdrop it looked terrible.
-I thought the plot was well done. It took a while for it to get going, up until the dinosaur bursts into flames I was iffy and it seemed like Capaldi was doing a Matt Smith impersonation and not his own thing, but maybe that's kind of the point. Once the hobo conversation started, though, I was hooked and it was all great from there.
-I also really like how they handled the regeneration. Unlike Rose, who was basically "yup, he's still the Doctor, new face but I'm totally okay with this weird alien thing that just happened" Clara actually had some doubts and I liked that. Adds more to her personality and makes her more human and less of a character.
Overall, I'd say I'm looking forward to this season. After the fumbling of series 6 and the general mehness of series 7, I'm hopeful Moffat can recreate what made series 5 so excellent. I still think overall, Matt Smith is going to be my favorite Doctor, but Capaldi is damn good and I'm ready for more episodes with him.
-Loved Clara in this episode, felt like she had actual personality and was her own person and not a puzzle for the Doctor to solve. (Of course, I attribute that to the weird way season 7 was cut-up and kind of rushed her introduction.)
-Capaldi as the Doctor was great. "Attack eyebrows" and "Dormant." "How do you know?" "I don't, just hoping." both got me laughing. And then the delivery of "I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you" and then the entire conversation afterwards was just brilliant. Totally on board with the darker doctor.
-Strax was actually tolerable this episode, I normally don't like him that much. Even though it was the same shtick, it didn't feel as stuck in as other episodes, maybe because the overall length of the episode didn't have him stealing screen time from the Doctor. Him falling behind Jenny and Vastra was a great moment.
-Speaking of Jenny and Vastra, I'm really really really tired of Moffat's "hey look a lesbian relationship, hey look one's not human, look how progressive I am writing these characters into the show" winks and nods that he inserts every time they appear. We get it, they're happily married. Just have them act normal instead of having every interaction they have be a giant wink and play to the audience.
-Liked all the callbacks to older episodes, and seeing Matt one final time was a surprise and kind of cool. Even though his appearance was basically a "hey fans who only liked cute Doctors, an older Doctor can be cool too" statement.
-Cinematography was okay, not as great as some of the series 5 episodes. The dinosaur CGI wasn't bad by itself, but when it was combined with any sort of backdrop it looked terrible.
-I thought the plot was well done. It took a while for it to get going, up until the dinosaur bursts into flames I was iffy and it seemed like Capaldi was doing a Matt Smith impersonation and not his own thing, but maybe that's kind of the point. Once the hobo conversation started, though, I was hooked and it was all great from there.
-I also really like how they handled the regeneration. Unlike Rose, who was basically "yup, he's still the Doctor, new face but I'm totally okay with this weird alien thing that just happened" Clara actually had some doubts and I liked that. Adds more to her personality and makes her more human and less of a character.
Overall, I'd say I'm looking forward to this season. After the fumbling of series 6 and the general mehness of series 7, I'm hopeful Moffat can recreate what made series 5 so excellent. I still think overall, Matt Smith is going to be my favorite Doctor, but Capaldi is damn good and I'm ready for more episodes with him.
acheron_xl
Member
I actually really like the new theme. And the new title sequence is maybe the best one yet. It's loads better than the last one.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I like the new intro, but the theme sounds like a malfunctioning smoke alarm.
The Tardis is also very very oddly blue in the intro. Would prefer it darker.
The Tardis is also very very oddly blue in the intro. Would prefer it darker.
I've only seen the episode once, but I kind of liked the music. A bit less bombastic than in recent years. Murray Gold described the new Doctor's theme as being 'quite rock & roll' in that Peter Davison documentary from a few days ago, and it rather fits. I can only recall hearing it for a bit when he opens the Tardis doors for the first time, so we'll have to see how it will be applied in the future. But the variation on Clara's theme in that same scene was great as well, a bit more somber and creepy, because she, like us, doesn't really know what's going on with the Doctor in that scene. A move away from the childlike (not in a bad way mind you) adventure-feeling of the Smith-score.
I'll need to watch and hear the intro again, but that tone was carried over there as well. Reminded me of the 80s themes a bit. I like it. It's nostalgic, while at the same time pushing the show into a different direction tonally from what we've seen since Tennant came in. Of course, it'll take a couple of episodes before we can actually judge how different the show will actually become, but I'm hopeful. My main criticism of season 7 was that the show got a bit too pleased with itself, and that it was pumping out mostly standard Who-stories. The new Doctor forces Clara to grow up a bit as well, which I like. The show feels really new again, for the first time since season 5.
Super excited about all of this. Not going to bother with the leaked episodes. Doctor Who episodes need to be consumed on a saturday evening, completely finished.
I'll need to watch and hear the intro again, but that tone was carried over there as well. Reminded me of the 80s themes a bit. I like it. It's nostalgic, while at the same time pushing the show into a different direction tonally from what we've seen since Tennant came in. Of course, it'll take a couple of episodes before we can actually judge how different the show will actually become, but I'm hopeful. My main criticism of season 7 was that the show got a bit too pleased with itself, and that it was pumping out mostly standard Who-stories. The new Doctor forces Clara to grow up a bit as well, which I like. The show feels really new again, for the first time since season 5.
Super excited about all of this. Not going to bother with the leaked episodes. Doctor Who episodes need to be consumed on a saturday evening, completely finished.
APZonerunner
Member
Is this really true? In the mini-episode between Parting of the Ways and The Christmas Invasion she rejects him immediately and demands to be taken home (and he decides to go to Christmas day 'as a present')... and halfway into The Christmas Invasion Rose is still sobbing "He's dead! The Doctor's Dead!" into her mum's arms. I think the only thing that separates the two is that they're going in opposite directions - Rose ultimately accepts a little more easily because she's getting what she wants, some sexy looking man her own age. Clara's going in the opposite direction.
JonathanEx
Member
You also have the prequel to Christmas Invasion, in which Rose demands he changes back and guesses it's a transmat or Slitheen.
APZonerunner
Member
Ahaha, just edited that into my post the very minute you posted that! Yes.
Jest Chillin
Member
More than just the Doctor going opposite directions in each case, Vastra's reaction also helps to paint how "bad" Clara is for her reaction, highlighting it even more and influencing the viewer to feel like it's a betrayal of the Doctor to not instantly accept him.
Overall I think I have a similar opinion to most. The ep was uneven with the front half being weaker. The dialogue and wierd slapstick stuff kind of threw me I think. Right around the alleyway dialogue with the transient is when it started to click for me.
The interesting part to me was the ending where it seems The Doctor is dependent on Clara. When 10 became 11, 11 seemed more curious and while he used young Amelia to help him flesh out bits of his likes/dislikes, he didn't seem as.. vulnerable? 10 also didn't seem vulnerable with Rose but at the end there 12 definitely seemed scared at the idea of Clara leaving. I'm so used to a more confident Doctor that it intrigues me but I'm unsure about it.
It's kinda like that.
12 is much more stern on some sides (has way less empathy for most people, as you'll see) and in general more selfish. In the upcoming eps, he disregards a lot of Clara's and other people's advice for the sake of his own curiosity and adrenalin rush. But that also shows his faults and insecurities when he fails.
I personally like that a lot. It's the one thing that annoyed me with Matt's doctor as he was too...perfect. Too self confident, too deus ex machina. You nevered feared for him because you knew he could just get out of any situation with a twirl and a speech, and to me that became boring after a while. I liked the fairy tale aspect but it does kill the tension.
Capaldi seems much more on edge and prone to mistake. You actually worry if he's gonna fuck up or abuse Clara's trust. He's that sort of "Wild Card" again with all his stubborness and angry temper
I personally like that a lot. It's the one thing that annoyed me with Matt's doctor as he was too...perfect. Too self confident, too deus ex machina. You nevered feared for him because you knew he could just get out of any situation with a twirl and a speech, and to me that became boring after a while. I liked the fairy tale aspect but it does kill the tension.
Capaldi seems much more on edge and prone to mistake. You actually worry if he's gonna fuck up or abuse Clara's trust. He's that sort of "Wild Card" again with all his stubborness and angry temper
Ventilaator
Banned
Saw the episode. Tl;dr impression: siggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
Wasn't the writing supposed to be better for some of Moffat's shit characters? People said that. Several people even! And here we have Clara whose complete nothingness of a personality has been replaced with just being a moron. Yay, improvements.
Also, I was never a huge fan of the Paternoster Gang, but they were okay. But let's not settle with that, let's instead completely filter them down to a single trait. Vastra and Jenny only talk about how much they're married and nothing else. Strax is there to call women boys and say "something something Sontaran empire!!" because that's a hilarious thing that never gets old.
I also liked how Moffat showed his confidence in Capaldi by spending half the episode justifying him being there and whining about the people who might dislike him.
....I'll keep watching because other writers also work on this show and because I probably hate myself or something.
Wasn't the writing supposed to be better for some of Moffat's shit characters? People said that. Several people even! And here we have Clara whose complete nothingness of a personality has been replaced with just being a moron. Yay, improvements.
Also, I was never a huge fan of the Paternoster Gang, but they were okay. But let's not settle with that, let's instead completely filter them down to a single trait. Vastra and Jenny only talk about how much they're married and nothing else. Strax is there to call women boys and say "something something Sontaran empire!!" because that's a hilarious thing that never gets old.
I also liked how Moffat showed his confidence in Capaldi by spending half the episode justifying him being there and whining about the people who might dislike him.
....I'll keep watching because other writers also work on this show and because I probably hate myself or something.
Team Filler
Member
I think it should be mentioned how this had some really excellent lines.
RandyBobandy
Banned
I don't get this critic.
If anything, Clara finally is starting to get a personality. The acting was actually pretty good when she had to hold her breath, and we can see the more vain and controlling aspect of her with her dialogue with the doctor in the restaurant.
If we're reffering to the fact that she's shocked even though she has "witnessed" previous regenerations. First of all, she doesn't remember most of it (she forgot quite a bit). She also has never "witnessed" a regeneration, she just knows he had previous incarnations, but never expected the complete shift in tone and the post regen madness. I mean the only two doctors she experienced are Tennant and Smith which are both pretty accomodating, to say the least.
I'd argue she even had a stronger showing than 12 in some points, the latter which was still developping for the most part
Ventilaator
Banned
Where is this super convenient "Clara forgot!" thing coming from? Because I remember her in Trenzalore being all "I saw all of your faces, you are the eleventh Doctor!"
In TOTD (I think) The Doctor asked her if she remembered, and she says, "a bit." It doesn't matter if she did remember, just knowing he can regenerate doesn't matter, having "her" Doctor completely change in front of her is quite a shock.
I think it was in day of the doctor when she says she only remembers "a bit" of his previous incarnations. She knows that he's the eleventh but she doesn't recall any experience with them. Just knows he used to have different faces.
Which, like she points out herself, is irrelevant because it's not the fact that he looks old that bothers her
Jest Chillin
Member
More importantly, when she says "I've seen all your faces" she's still inside The Doctors timestream. It's once they've left that she doesn't remember much of what happened in all those incarnations.
Nah she also says that line in Time of the doctor before he regenerates. She's aware of the headcount and probably has a vague hint of what they looked like
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