HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
- Start date
Poodlestrike
Banned
As a primarily casual player myself, I'd appreciate if skill-based matchmaking stuck around for non competitive playlists, but otherwise...
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
There's something interesting that has been going on with the recent resurgence of players going back to H2, either through XBC or H2V, and Halo 3 on XBL: A good amount of these players going back to Halo 3 are openly complaining about Halo 3's issues on streams, and not just issues caused by poor netcode like bullet registration, but gameplay concerns.
This is interesting to me because in a few months we'll have 5 Halo multiplayer games to compare to each other without having to swap discs. People will finally be able to compare these games on a level we were never able to before. Sure right now we could play some Halo 3, then pop in some Halo 2 to compare the differences, but the effect is obviously much different today than it will be when TMCC launches.
So I'm curious to see if Halo 3 will pull the best numbers for competitive play (not MM population numbers, I'm saying popularity solely amongst competitive players, players looking to compete and make money at events) or if it will be another game that's more "competitively viable" like H2A or CE/H2. What I'd love to see are 1v1s/2v2s for CE tournaments and 4v4s for H2/H2A tournaments.
EDIT:
This is the post you really meant, so why edit? I just want to point out that that was not my intention and I'm baffled as to why you think you needed to say that, as if I was only implying you're just acting as a pre-Halo 5 apologist possibly more than a year from release lol. Nice sarcasm though, hopefully I won't receive an unwarranted ban for this.
The Librarian
Banned
I don't. I very much dislike JIP and I mostly play social.
Keep join-in-progress isolated to action sack and you got yourself a deal.
edit: keep trueskill involved in social as well, though maybe tone it down a bit to improve matchmaking times?
not always - betas out a month before the game are just for network testing. However this beta will be out like 10 months ahead, so I imagine it will take a lot of feedback and change things for the better.
Everyone starts with armor lock.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Onikaan
Member
Havoc2049
Member
I find grenade play WAY more heavy in Halo 2, than in Halo 4, especially since you can carry 8 useful grenades in H2 vs 4 good grenades in H4 and nade spawns are few and far between in H4. Some maps in H2, like Lockout, between the numerous grenade spawns and grenades off dead bodies, it's like an almost endless supply of grenades. If you find yourself pinned down in the room at the top of the Blue Lift in Lockout, it's sometimes an endless barrage of nades from the BR and Snipe Towers.
That's because 4 of each nade was a terrible idea. I was referencing the fact that people will throw the two grenades they have and die. Rinse and repeat until target is destroyed. It's utterly frustrating.
Onikaan
Member
What are your thoughts on melee as it stands?
The inclusion of sprint in Halo multiplayer lead to players doing little more than sprinting toward you and mashing B twice. Nothing has ben more infuritating for me than actually using the weapon in my hands, only to be rushed and slammed down.
This wasn't really a problem in the previous iterations because you had the time to deal with the oncoming enemy before he was even in melee range.
Would you be upset to see melee go entirely? If sprint is going to stay?
The inclusion of sprint in Halo multiplayer lead to players doing little more than sprinting toward you and mashing B twice. Nothing has ben more infuritating for me than actually using the weapon in my hands, only to be rushed and slammed down.
This wasn't really a problem in the previous iterations because you had the time to deal with the oncoming enemy before he was even in melee range.
Would you be upset to see melee go entirely? If sprint is going to stay?
Poodlestrike
Banned
That's... I... uh...
YES. Very. Personally, I don't think that it's really an either/or question, but if it were, I'd still go with melee over sprint 100% of the time.
Remove melee? Wut
Why are you being rushed anyway? The whole slow down when being shot pretty much negates that problem, IMO. It was much worse in Halo 3, even without sprint.
User 73706
Banned
Sprint ruins Halo gameplay
Resolve by removing Melee
Resolve by removing Melee
Havoc2049
Member
People charging head first into harms way in Halo 4 is typical for about half of the H4 user base...good for our k/d ratios, no? ;-p
I think Halo 2's melee system was actually pretty damn good. It needs tweaking (lunge range, angle, consistency), but it's a very strong foundation. Momentum was factored in so jump melees were rewarded, damage was high but not insane, and then BXB added a strategic timing risk/reward element to the process.
Melee is a key component of the Halo games. It keeps the pace up and forces players to be mindful of engagement distances and their surroundings.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Oh you
Computer
Member
Maybe there should be a one hit kill melee with a button combo that is very hard to pull off in a clutch situation like BXB but intentional. It would add risk to someone rushing you with sprint. It would also add some crazy one shot clutch moments.
Onikaan
Member
I agree, I would rather see sprint go, don't get me wrong.
Maybe in Reach, but trying to hit an enemy that is sprinting toward you is harder to hit. Okay, we can say an element of skill is involved, but I still find it to be unfair against people who submit themselves to using weapons over melee attacks.
Halo 4's Resistor Tactical Package cancelled the slow down.
Take away melee?
Please, guys. I wasn't saying it should be removed, I was asking hypothetically. I should have been clear.
I really don't think sprint is going anywhere, so how do we deal with the combination of the two?
I use them a lot on the maps I make as pickups in the center. I like vertical maps but hate how they can turn into barrel fishing, so having jetpacks as something else to contest works for me.
I'm personally more than fine with AAs as on-map pickups; I can see the complaints that with a system akin to Reach and 4 you don't know what AA they could have, or who has it but that's mitigated by limited potential AAs on the maps (shouldn't be jetpacks on the map if they'll break it, et al) and the fact that we played and loved two Halo games where someone could pull rockets out and you had no clue they would have it either.
What does "submit to using weapons over melee attacks" even mean? Just stubbornly refusing to melee? If that's the case, then just keep your distance and fire. Or just fire as they charge you, and give them one smack to kill before they can land two.
I don't think blatantly charging an armed/loaded opponent with the intent of solely meleeing has ever been a viable strategy unless the opponent is wielding a high splash damage weapon and afraid of hitting themselves. Even with something like a sword, you still need a degree of cover, timing, and having the jump on someone.
There's a lot more than "an element of skill" at play here. Knowing when your melees are effective, when to back off and engage, being aware of surrounding players, guessing how much shield/health someone has, timing your melees, mixing melee and weapon fire, etc. are all involved. Close quarters combat is a huge part of Halo, and the melee element is to thank for that.
Sprint needs to die in a hole. Melee shouldn't break through shield.
Ragnarok like 1000 times in a row.
I'm so bored of the Mantis
God, no. Let's never go back to that. Having to resort to annoying melee battles (let's see who can get 2 melees in first!) in Reach was horrendous. Bleed through is absolutely a must.
Thank you. Reach's melee mechanic was ridiculous. Someone with 10% shield should not be on even melee ground as someone with full shield...
The Librarian
Banned
Agreed.
I remember the week when the TU first hit and Reach was fun. ZB Slayer w/bleedthrough was solid.
I loved the feedback and knowing when people would die, it's just a shame that it lead to the sprint double beatdown which got tedious even for me. 4 definitely improved things in that regard--even with sprint I rarely got charged or felt like I was screwed because of it.
Orochinagis
Member
Woot? well is sorta a mechanic to counter melee itself and guys close to you since not anyone will go running at you, its more like a situational mechanic
I found hilarious you can still find players in Halo 4 running at you who didnt even try to melee you but keep shoothing you with the DMR at melee distance as its like asking you to still shoothing them.
I would be OK with that, except I still think trueskill is important in unranked games. I also think not having to back out to a lobby would make JIP a bit more easy to stomach.
"Our internal spreadsheets told us that Armor Lock was a wildly used and popular mechanic, so that is why we brought it back!"
I thought they were going to remove sprint? Just doesn't feel right in an arena shooter.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Nothing confirmed yet.
I hope they at least give us the options of removing it.
But I doubt sprint is going anywhere. Way too ingrained in shooters nowadays. I know its bad for Halo but now when I play an older Halo it feels wrong not to have sprint. I'm just so used to it.
squidhands
Member
I have no problems with a myriad of custom options to give extraneous life to Halo. As longs as the Playlist Masters realize that equal starts for everyone is the way to play competitive games, you could keep Armor Lock as a fun custom option if you wanted (but I would judge you harshly and never play your reindeer games).
I still think that Jetpack should have been susceptible to an EMP blast.
As for Bannedverdoz1z's list, it's mostly spot-on with what I'd like to see in the competitive playlist, but I'd rather the casual resemble it in most areas:
Casual playlists:
- Ranks
- Stats
- Join in progress
- No quit penalty
- Pre-game lobby
- Trueskill matching
Competitive playlists:
- Ranks
- Stats
- Only join matches in progress that you quit out of
- Instant time-out penalty for quitting out/or for in-game stationary players
- Pre-game lobby
- Trueskill matching
There should ALWAYS be some sort of skill matching in Halo, regardless of playlist. I'd rather wait for a close game than be dumped into a lopsided shitfest where only a couple of people are enjoying themselves. "Casual" doesn't necessarily mean that I don't give a shit about the outcome.
Deputy Moonman
Member
mmmhhh tasty
However it was in Halo 3 is how it should be.
I enjoyed the 'pack in Reach but I'm fine with counter mechanics like the bolded, incidentally (so power drain and plasma nade aoe?). Lord knows Armor Lock should have had them too (a nade or a vehicle hit should have knocked one out of it, ditto PP overcharge).