This is a ridiculous point. She's done her part. She no longer is required to engage with anyone on the topic, if she doesn't want to.
When you write an essay, your job is done. When you release a documentary, your job is done. When you create a poem, or a painting, or even a joke, your job is done. It's then up to others to discuss the meaning and merits, which they can do on their own time, in their own space. If you, as the creator, also want to listen or engage, fine. But, in this case, Anita's job is done.
She's not silencing discussion. And you're not really asking for it. You're saying she has to keep talking, in a forum of your choosing, until you and her other critics are personally satisfied. Which will never happen.
Because the lack of discussion is not her critics' real problem with her. If anything, the gross threats she's received have shown that what many of her critics really want is for her to shut up.
I'm always amused by the idea of sexist, defensive, irrational guys being enraged while watching her videos (probably cursing out loud!), but it's sad that it has become this extreme. There are actual flaws with her arguments that people could address in a civil manner, but the kind of haters she attracts are not exactly of the civil kind, I guess.
Who knew well written characters can result in a more enjoyable game? Thats all that Sarkesian is calling for, thats the terrible threat to gaming. Roll on the apocalypse.
Somewhat unrelated but following the #gamergate rabbit hole and finding people crying over being banned on gaf has been entertaining me for the last hour.
I was actually one of the people very much against the READ ID thing.
Because being a woman on the internet is TERRIFYING. As this thread proves. It's why I use usernames that are impossible to google. It's why I am very careful with personal info. I've been online since I was small, and I learned a long time ago that revealing yourself to be a woman in certain places will lead to a bunch of shit you don't want to deal with. Wow being one of them. I can play female characters all I want, people will still assume I am a guy. If my real, very feminine name is slapped up there as well, can you imagine the shit I'd have to deal with?
I once wiped a raid because I spoke on vent. SPOKE. I think I said 'Yep, got it.' after a raid leader asked me a question.
Sure, it might change behavior eventually, but I am not sure I want to be in the inital phase of such a thing, considering the types of harassment I've gotten before.
I am desperately trying to understand where this persistent horrific undercurrent comes from in the gaming community. My theory was that many of the people who frequent gaming communities and talk about games online are 'hardcore gamers', and these are people who tended to be those on the fringes of social society. They were likely rejected many times in school by members of the opposite sex. They were likely picked on by the stronger cliques. This developed into a sort of bitterness where any movement or product that empowers these same individuals - such as games (there's even a label - dudebro) aimed at 'casual gamers' who may include the very jocks who picked on them or a prominent female who decides to talk about the very real problem of sexism in gaming - end up as targets of scorn.
This is just a gut feeling and there's no way I can be scientific about this. But I am deeply interested in what motivates these people. It's insane the nonsense they spew
Equality can't be attained without working together, and that's not men telling women what to do, it's a conversation about how things can be equal for everyone.
I'm a feminist if you were to talk with me for a while, but I'm much more complex than that and don't wish to be pigeon-holed by those who like to make snap judgments about labels.
OK, so where are all the women in this thread complaining about the term? All I saw is dudes saying 'egalitarian, please.' Sounds to me like dudes trying to take control.
Caring about people making fun of you or not taking you seriously for calling yourself a "feminist" doesn't make you complex, it makes you a cry baby. WAAAHHHH, I wanna be a feminist but I don't want other people making fun of me for it. Cowardly bullshit. That's the exact kind of thing women are up against all the time. Empathize with it instead of trying to skate around it because the label makes you feel icky.
I am desperately trying to understand where this persistent horrific undercurrent comes from in the gaming community. My theory was that many of the people who frequent gaming communities and talk about games online are 'hardcore gamers', and these are people who tended to be those on the fringes of social society. They were likely rejected many times in school by members of the opposite sex. They were likely picked on by the stronger cliques. This developed into a sort of bitterness where any movement or product that empowers these same individuals - such as games (there's even a label - dudebro) aimed at 'casual gamers' who may include the very jocks who picked on them or a prominent female who decides to talk about the very real problem of sexism in gaming - end up as targets of scorn.
This is just a gut feeling and there's no way I can be scientific about this. But I am deeply interested in what motivates these people. It's insane the nonsense they spew
I dislike broad statements like these. Everyone suffers. Men, women, children, gays, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals, minorities, you name it. It is not a competition between genders and which one suffers most.
Humans have faced all kinds of atrocities, from genocide to slavery, concentration camps to nuclear bombs and from institutionalized racism to institutionalized sexism. All of their suffering is legit and not measurable on some scale.
There are plenty of women who have amazing lives and plenty of men who have shitty lives and vice versa. Like I said, it should never become a competition, nor should people be placed on two big piles.
That in no way implies that the way they are tackled in our world is common. I do not understand the distate for 'feminism' under the banner of being the greater good. being the greater ideal is a very passive approach that really should not be celebrated at the expense of 'feminism'. Here least of all places.
I dislike broad statements like these. Everyone suffers. Men, women, children, gays, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals, minorities, you name it. It is not a competition between genders and which one suffers most.
Humans have faced all kinds of atrocities, from genocide to slavery, concentration camps to nuclear bombs and from institutionalized racism to institutionalized sexism. All of their suffering is legit and not measurable on some scale.
There are plenty of women who have amazing lives and plenty of men who have shitty lives and vice versa. Like I said, it should never become a competition, nor should people be placed on two big piles. I acknowledge that women face more issues on the planet right now then men, but I definitely dislike statements such as this.
When you are using "everyone suffers" as a point to depress one particular side, it's really hard for you to come off as actually being for equality of any kind. You're in a thread about a female activist being driven from her home due to threats on her life and her family's lives telling people that everybody's got it bad, in case this is lost on you.
Yeah, I understand that it would bring more hate, but I also understand that not answering reasonable feedback may raise several eyebrows about her videos, that aren't necesarily from trolls.
OK, so where are all the women in this thread complaining about the term? All I saw is dudes saying 'egalitarian, please.' Sounds to me like dudes trying to take control.
Caring about people making fun of you for calling yourself a "feminist" doesn't make you complex, it makes you a cry baby. WAAAHHHH, I wanna be a feminist but I don't want other people making fun of me for it. Cowardly bullshit.
Can you show me a popular mainstream feminist that talks about that subject? Not just talks but focuses on it.
This is one of the main problems people state against "modern feminism", and I haven't yet found a popular feminist that talks about this subject.
OK, so where are all the women in this thread complaining about the term? All I saw is dudes saying 'egalitarian, please.' Sounds to me like dudes trying to take control.
Caring about people making fun of you for calling yourself a "feminist" doesn't make you complex, it makes you a cry baby. WAAAHHHH, I wanna be a feminist but I don't want other people making fun of me for it. Cowardly bullshit.
I've always known it was a huge problem, and it's become even more obvious due to my job and what I have to deal with there. But what really drove the insanity home was when neoGAF's own H. Protagonist said that she was once mailed a sexualized fanfiction about her which included extremely specific details that nobody else should be able to know. That shit would terrify even me.
How in the world do I even begin to respond to such an experience? I can never truly relate as a man, I just have to exist in the sphere where I recognize it as a profoundly fucked up thing to ever have to deal with. And I have to do my best to push back against male gamers who have this disgustingly misogynistic undercurrent to all their actions... but it's never enough. There's so many of these people...
When you are using "everyone suffers" as a point to depress one particular side, it's really hard for you to come off as actually being for equality of any kind. You're in a thread about a female activist being driven from her home due to threats on her life and her family's lives telling people that everybody's got it bad, in case this is lost on you.
I really think there's something to this, in some cases. Some weird "Why is this woman complaining and playing the victim when girls already have all the power?" mentality.
I cant help but revisit the whole "REAL ID" thing Blizzard wanted to do a couple years ago - make it mandatory for everyone to show their REAL NAME on forum posts and in-game friend's lists/guild lists.
This doesn't accomplish anything. Facebook comments are pretty much the last nail in the coffin of the argument that people won't say horrible, fucked-up shit on the internet if their real name and picture is next to it.
You don't actually see a ton of feminist discourse that puts these ideas front and center (except when, as in that piece, the purpose is specifically to recruit men to the cause), because men already get disproportionate attention in society and one way feminism seeks to change that is by creating spaces where women's issues are at the forefront. But reading modern feminist thinkers closely, many of these issues are addressed in depth: ending sexist oppression involves deconstructing many of the elements of rigid gender roles, a process that invariably removes elements of those roles that lock men down as well.
I can without reservation recommend bell hooks' Feminism is for Everybody as a good place to dig into this topic.
It's awful what she's going through.
I would say some level of it is expected (because haters going to hate), but a lot of it has gone beyond what I would expect from the technologically progressive community that is videogames. It's so shameful and some of the very responses in this thread make me feel so frustrated about the state of gender politics and feminism in the industry (and society as a whole).
I think the things with some guys having so much vitriol against feminism and etc is that they may be outcast in many ways socially and even economically, but one of the few privileges they still have is being catered to as a male when it comes to games (or anything else traditionally male-centric). So the threat of "feminism taking that away"--"that" being the special feeling they get when they are catered and pandered to--drives them into a frenzy of stupid.
Also I am judging a lot of people based on their responses in this thread. A great many of the more ignorant or naive or just plain dumb responses gives me a very negative impression of the person, and the more that happens, the more distrustful I am of the gaf community in terms of openness to female presence, so I hope you all know that!
And this is not to mention all the boohoo concern trolling can't-we-be-sensitive-about-me-right-now-too. Holy moley.
The reality is that online threats happen in any form of entertainment - music, movies, sports. And yet, those fans aren't regarded as vile. Only immature people would regard "gamers" as bad just because of the action of a few.
I was actually one of the people very much against the READ ID thing.
Because being a woman on the internet is TERRIFYING. As this thread proves. It's why I use usernames that are impossible to google. It's why I am very careful with personal info. I've been online since I was small, and I learned a long time ago that revealing yourself to be a woman in certain places will lead to a bunch of shit you don't want to deal with. Wow being one of them. I can play female characters all I want, people will still assume I am a guy. If my real, very feminine name is slapped up there as well, can you imagine the shit I'd have to deal with?
I once wiped a raid because I spoke on vent. SPOKE. I think I said 'Yep, got it.' after a raid leader asked me a question.
Sure, it might change behavior eventually, but I am not sure I want to be in the inital phase of such a thing, considering the types of harassment I've gotten before.
A few years ago I tried a social experiment. I was playing Street Fighter 4 online on PS3, and I changed my username to something innocuous but clearly female- I legitimately don't remember what the name was. It wasn't anything suggestive or sexual, just had the word 'lady' or 'girl' in the title somewhere.
Played online as Chun-Li in random matches for about 2 hours. Didn't use a mic or anything, just fought strangers for fun. I won some, I lost some.
Turned off the machine when I was done, and the next day when I checked my messages on PSN I had no less than 7 profane and harassing messages from strangers I'd played against. It was illuminating and depressing.
When you are using "everyone suffers" as a point to depress one particular side, it's really hard for you to come off as actually being for equality of any kind. You're in a thread about a female activist being driven from her home due to threats on her life and her family's lives telling people that everybody's got it bad, in case this is lost on you.
I'm not going to explain what I stand for AGAIN as I think I've clarified it plenty now. When someone states that "men will never quite have to endure the madness women face, so it's not easy for them to relate to why a woman may not feel strong on her own" then I am allowed to disagree with that statement without you having to come and put my intentions into question. In fact, my entire post is about suffering not being measurable on a scale or needing to be a competition and that all suffering is legit.
I never said that "everybody's got it bad" as some excuse, I said it in response to a specific statement, in which I clarified that women have it worse than men at the moment.
I acknowledge that women face more issues on the planet right now then men, but I definitely dislike statements such as this.
Getting kind of tired of having my morals questioned every page or two. Just because I say that "suffering shouldn't be a competition" doesn't mean that women don't face lots of issues in society, it just means that suffering shouldn't be a competition. It was a response to a very specific post.
I am desperately trying to understand where this persistent horrific undercurrent comes from in the gaming community. My theory was that many of the people who frequent gaming communities and talk about games online are 'hardcore gamers', and these are people who tended to be those on the fringes of social society. They were likely rejected many times in school by members of the opposite sex. They were likely picked on by the stronger cliques. This developed into a sort of bitterness where any movement or product that empowers these same individuals - such as games (there's even a label - dudebro) aimed at 'casual gamers' who may include the very jocks who picked on them or a prominent female who decides to talk about the very real problem of sexism in gaming - end up as targets of scorn.
This is just a gut feeling and there's no way I can be scientific about this. But I am deeply interested in what motivates these people. It's insane the nonsense they spew
I've taken the day to cool down and hopefully not just post an incoherent rant, but I get the feeling this is going to be fairly close to one.
I have had enough of this bullshit behaviour and I'm not even one of the people unlucky enough to be targeted for it.
The past fortnight has been a watershed moment for me. I've always been pro-equality and whilst it's been frustrating, I've played nice with the opposite viewpoint. No more.
From here on, I don't let it slide. I don't think "Oh, they'll learn". I don't roll my eyes. If I see anyone here or on any other media propagating a bullshit line of "defence" I will call you out because these people are making me ashamed to be a gamer.
I'm sick of people going "SJWs are stifling my opinions by jumping down my throat". I ask those of you doing so to just think for ten seconds and ask yourself: "Hey, is the reason people are getting this upset with me because I'm wrong?"
These attitudes and the actions of the extreme elements are what are stifling progression. Nobody wants to take your games away. Nobody wants to censor what you already have or will be getting. Nobody wants to make out that you are a horrible person for having played these games. The point of Anita's videos have been to show what lazy, regressive tropes have been prevalent so that established and up-and-coming developers can choose to try and do it differently next time.
Sure, the videos are not 100% perfect in their execution yet. This is fairly new territory they're treading in the grand scheme of things. There are points that both you and I can critique and praise. However, dismissing them entirely is not a valid stance. If that is you, then You. Are. Wrong.
I'm not going to respect that sort of position any more because it doesn't deserve it. I'm no longer going to balance the scales whilst one group pretends there are no scales and another takes a sledgehammer to them.
This is what a campaign of bullshit has driven me to.
Can you show me a popular mainstream feminist that talks about that subject? Not just talks but focuses on it.
This is one of the main problems people state against "modern feminism", and I haven't yet found a popular feminist that talks about this subject.
I would think it is much harder to find a feminist that does not think men are held back by gender norms, and that freeing ourselves from those norms would give us more options, a better life and better relationships.
For example, please read through this article by Gloria Steinem published in 1970.
Men will have to give up ruling-class privileges, but in return they will no longer be the only ones to support the family, get drafted, bear the strain of power and responsibility. Freud to the contrary, anatomy is not destiny, at least not for more than nine months at a time. In Israel, women are drafted, and some have gone to war. In England, more men type and run switchboards. In India and Israel, a woman rules. In Sweden, both parents take care of the children. In this country, come Utopia, men and women won't reverse roles; they will be free to choose according to individual talents and preferences.
Men now suffer from more diseases due to stress, heart attacks, ulcers, a higher suicide rate, greater difficulty living alone, less adaptability to change and, in general, a shorter life-span than women. There is some scientific evidence that what produces physical problems is not work itself, but the inability to choose which work, and how much. With women bearing half the financial responsibility, and with the idea of "masculine" jobs gone, men might well fee] freer and live longer.
I was actually one of the people very much against the READ ID thing.
Because being a woman on the internet is TERRIFYING. As this thread proves. It's why I use usernames that are impossible to google. It's why I am very careful with personal info. I've been online since I was small, and I learned a long time ago that revealing yourself to be a woman in certain places will lead to a bunch of shit you don't want to deal with. Wow being one of them. I can play female characters all I want, people will still assume I am a guy. If my real, very feminine name is slapped up there as well, can you imagine the shit I'd have to deal with?
I once wiped a raid because I spoke on vent. SPOKE. I think I said 'Yep, got it.' after a raid leader asked me a question.
Sure, it might change behavior eventually, but I am not sure I want to be in the inital phase of such a thing, considering the types of harassment I've gotten before.
I'm kinda wondering why you are assuming that the girls I know trying to get into the gaming industry haven't actually been playing games. Cause they have, just as long as I have. Since we were kids. :/ I've been playing D&D since I was 12.
Also, the two I am speaking of live in Seattle. So there's that.
I'm not assuming anything. I know nothing about your friends. You said you had a lot of friends interested in the business. Why would I assume they were female?
I'm only giving you the same song and dance I was given when I went to a career counselor in college and HS and asked about it.
"Suffering isn't measurable on a scale" -- I mean, this is obviously, trivially not true. If I stub my toe and you get your hand lopped off by a band saw, it's quite easy to determine which of us is worse off. The yawning chasm between "harassment directed towards men online" and "harassment directed towards women online" is similar -- one is so far beyond the other in scope and virulence that even a superficial examination will make it easy to determine which is worse.
I'm not going to explain what I stand for AGAIN as I think I've clarified it plenty now. When someone states that "men will never quite have to endure the madness women face, so it's not easy for them to relate to why a woman may not feel strong on her own" then I am allowed to disagree with that statement without you having to come and put my intentions into question. In fact, my entire post is about suffering not being measurable on a scale or needing to be a competition and that all suffering is legit.
I never said that "everybody's got it bad" as some excuse, I said it in response to a specific statement, in which I clarified that women have it worse than men at the moment.
Getting kind of tired of having my morals questioned every page or two.
Then why, here, when discussing a specific gendered incident, are you preaching in a way that detracts from the severity of what specifically happened by telling people that your way of seeing it is more valid since its more general? more general is in no way more correct. at all.
I dislike broad statements like these. Everyone suffers. Men, women, children, gays, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals, minorities, you name it. It is not a competition between genders and which one suffers most.
Humans have faced all kinds of atrocities, from genocide to slavery, concentration camps to nuclear bombs and from institutionalized racism to institutionalized sexism. All of their suffering is legit and not measurable on some scale.
There are plenty of women who have amazing lives and plenty of men who have shitty lives and vice versa. Like I said, it should never become a competition, nor should people be placed on two big piles.
I think you are missing the point entirely. No one is claiming that only certain groups of people suffer. The problem is that certain groups people suffer disproportionately from others.
A white, heterosexual male can be insulted with a variety of slurs and they can threatened, beaten, or killed, but that does not change the fact that these types of incidents have and will continue to disproportionately affect women and people of color. This is the problem that feminists and other social activists are struggling to address against those who would rather maintain the status quo.
Here's another way of looking at this: let's pretend for a moment that I'm God. Let's assume that you are a white male living in the same world that we live in today, with the same history of violence and prejudices. Want to know how I can automatically make your life more difficult with a snap of my finger? You are now a black woman. Enjoy.
I was actually one of the people very much against the READ ID thing.
Because being a woman on the internet is TERRIFYING. As this thread proves. It's why I use usernames that are impossible to google. It's why I am very careful with personal info. I've been online since I was small, and I learned a long time ago that revealing yourself to be a woman in certain places will lead to a bunch of shit you don't want to deal with. Wow being one of them. I can play female characters all I want, people will still assume I am a guy. If my real, very feminine name is slapped up there as well, can you imagine the shit I'd have to deal with?
I once wiped a raid because I spoke on vent. SPOKE. I think I said 'Yep, got it.' after a raid leader asked me a question.
Sure, it might change behavior eventually, but I am not sure I want to be in the inital phase of such a thing, considering the types of harassment I've gotten before.
Look at how popular thunderfoot's videos are. Those obsessed with Sarkessian and who think she's the great anti-christ of gaming come to take away their copies of GTA are not insignificant in number.
Thanks for the link; I watched one of his videos, curious to see the other side of the discussion. I picked one titled Anita Sarkeesian BUSTED, which opened to a narration on how she had fabricated the comments insulting and threatening her. Curious to see how he would prove this, I skimmed the video.
Nothing. The proof I was waiting for didn't come. I can only assume he doesn't believe his audience to have the power of retentive necessary to realize this and call him out for it. Instead, the video was spent ripping her apart for "misrepresenting" a Hitman game; he says that the game "only" has a striptease club in one out of 20 missions and then only in 2 of 7 parts of this mission, so it's "just 1% of the game". Oh, and wildly gesticulating and frothing about how unbelievable her dishonesty is, and how she disabled comments in her videos to prevent her followers to view videos such as his.
This was narrated to the background of scenes of various games showing women as furniture (some literally seemed like creepy mannequins) in various but generally advanced states of undress, I'm assuming from Anita's video itself. Perhaps the most unsettling thing of it all (which is to say a lot, frankly!) is how his defenses of these games contrast with the footage, i.e. that he literally can't (is unable to, not just unwilling to) see anything wrong with it.
Congratulations, Thunderf00t; if you are representative of the average critic and criticism against Anita Sarkeesian, you just dissipated any lingering doubts I could have about her, indeed.
Since we know that in practice, not all women see feminism the same way, I'd disagree with this idea. If feminism is about an individual feeling empowered during discourse compared to others, rather than the underlying ideas and goals, I think that's a bad outlook for a social movement. Ego needs to come out of it, and yes, that means that people of either gender can understand why feminism is important and communicate those ideas to others. If you believe otherwise, wouldn't that make the goals of feminism impossible?
But see, the movement is about giving women a choice. For such a long time, every woman has been seen as the same thing, time and again. Every woman wants to be a housewife, a nurse, etc, but women are not a hivemind. We have our own wants.
Some women want freedom to enjoy their sexuality. Some women want to preserve themselves for marriage. Some want to dance, some want be rappers. All of these women will tell you a different way sexism has damaged their progress. That is why feminism is about the individual, and varies but ultimately means~ giving women a choice.
If feminism says feminism is about women who work, it benefits the nurse, but not the housewife. If feminism says, give women more jobs meant for men, the women who don't want those jobs don't benefit. That is why it's best to ask women what they want from feminism. Because feminism is that flexible.
I want feminism to help minorities take our identity back instead of being seen as fetish fuel and being objectified. I want feminism to embrace the struggles of female minorities and give us something to be proud of~ boost us up so that creepy dudes stop assuming we need to be taken away from our "evil men" when instead, we need all men to see our worth. We don't need rescue, we need options and encouragement.
Can you show me a popular mainstream feminist that talks about that subject? Not just talks but focuses on it.
This is one of the main problems people state against "modern feminism", and I haven't yet found a popular feminist that talks about this subject.
It's not really talked about because it's been covered for decades. People just don't do the research or try very hard, so people get understandably frustrated about having to re-explain a lot.
I dislike broad statements like these. Everyone suffers. Men, women, children, gays, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals, minorities, you name it. It is not a competition between genders and which one suffers most.
Humans have faced all kinds of atrocities, from genocide to slavery, concentration camps to nuclear bombs and from institutionalized racism to institutionalized sexism. All of their suffering is legit and not measurable on some scale.
There are plenty of women who have amazing lives and plenty of men who have shitty lives and vice versa. Like I said, it should never become a competition, nor should people be placed on two big piles.
Of course there's exceptions to everything. But let's not pretend that it's constant as the opposite.
And what does all that have to do with men's experience compared to women's? It would be great if we could stay on task instead of wandering into territory I'm not prepared for atm.
The reality is that online threats happen in any form of entertainment - music, movies, sports. And yet, those fans aren't regarded as vile. Only immature people would regard "gamers" as bad just because of the action of a few.
"Suffering isn't measurable on a scale" -- I mean, this is obviously, trivially not true. If I stub my toe and you get your hand lopped off by a band saw, it's quite easy to determine which of us is worse off. The yawning chasm between "harassment directed towards men online" and "harassment directed towards women online" is similar -- one is so far beyond the other in scope and virulence that even a superficial examination will make it easy to determine which is worse.
Obviously that isn't what I meant. My point was that all people suffer in some way and it is unfair to say that suffering X is worse than suffering Y as if it is a competition. That is not the same as noting that "women face more issues than men". I was replying to a very specific comment and nothing else.
So a better example would be that you don't compare the suffering of a young male teenager that commits suicide over being gay with a young female teenager that commits suicide over slut-shaming, and then make statements like "the guy can never understand the suffering of the girl".
I wish I understood it as well. Cause it's not like girls who grew up gaming and being nerds and such didn't go through the same things the guys went through. We were bullied as well, rejected, ect. But for some reason the entire idea that we are not 'legit' enough is pervasive. Like we're invading someone else's territory. It's disturbing.
I think that's what makes this all so extra messed up. Because instead of this being a shared common experience that many of us went through and which should, in theory, motivate us to be more inclusive, many gamers are being even more horrible than the very people that picked on them. If my theory is right, it's just another sad reflection of the system of ultra-masculinity that seeps right down to the lowest level.
In an ideal world, experiences of females who were also pushed to the fringes merely for liking a hobby that wasn't "popular" would be a way to unite us. Instead, it is ignored, and what is left is some blanket that certain male gamers cast over the entire opposite sex.
The sad thing is I don't know of any possible solution to fixing the nightmare that is the internet for females, or gaming communities specifically. NeoGAF must seem like paradise compared to some communities, and even this place has so many posters that we still have to deal with countless threads where 90 people are banned for saying horrendous things.
I hope one day down the line I can say we've moved past this...
I think part of it is there is no actual scientific data to back up this hypothesis. While I strongly believe it to be the case, even I must admit that I cannot push it as something close to reality without supporting data.
I've actually entertained the thought of streaming publicly (I do stream occasionally to friends) or making youtube videos or the like, but I just don't think I could handle the stress. The way people in general react to folks like Anita is definitely holding back other women who want to get their voices out there.
I'm outspoken here on Gaf, sure. I acknowledge the fact that I am woman but don't correct people when they assume I a guy. But that's only because Gaf has some seriously awesome mods and they handle the shit when it happens.
I've wanted to do streaming on twitch, but all the swatting and doxxing shit scare me away every time. I can't even imagine how hard it would be to sustain as a woman.
Not that I'm someone who is incapable of separating someone's personal life from their craft, but being perfectly honest, I liked Firefly -- in particular the Jane character -- a whole lot more before I was aware of the fact that Adam Baldwin is a right wing nutjob.
My god. The reactions to the videos by some are fucking gross. I just can't wrap my head around it. You can disagree but the reactions are just mind boggling.
I've taken the day to cool down and hopefully not just post an incoherent rant, but I get the feeling this is going to be fairly close to one.
I have had enough of this bullshit behaviour and I'm not even one of the people unlucky enough to be targeted for it.
The past fortnight has been a watershed moment for me. I've always been pro-equality and whilst it's been frustrating, I've played nice with the opposite viewpoint. No more.
From here on, I don't let it slide. I don't think "Oh, they'll learn". I don't roll my eyes. If I see anyone here or on any other media propagating a bullshit line of "defence" I will call you out because these people are making me ashamed to be a gamer.
I'm sick of people going "SJWs are stifling my opinions by jumping down my throat". I ask those of you doing so to just think for ten seconds and ask yourself: "Hey, is the reason people are getting this upset with me because I'm wrong?"
These attitudes and the actions of the extreme elements are what are stifling progression. Nobody wants to take your games away. Nobody wants to censor what you already have or will be getting. Nobody wants to make out that you are a horrible person for having played these games. The point of Anita's videos have been to show what lazy, regressive tropes have been prevalent so that established and up-and-coming developers can choose to try and do it differently next time.
Sure, the videos are not 100% perfect in their execution yet. This is fairly new territory they're treading in the grand scheme of things. There are points that both you and I can critique and praise. However, dismissing them entirely is not a valid stance. If that is you, then You. Are. Wrong.
I'm not going to respect that sort of position any more because it doesn't deserve it. I'm no longer going to balance the scales whilst one group pretends there are no scales and another takes a sledgehammer to them.
This is what a campaign of bullshit has driven me to.
..I'm outspoken here on Gaf, sure. I acknowledge the fact that I am woman but don't correct people when they assume I a guy. But that's only because Gaf has some seriously awesome mods and they handle the shit when it happens.
That's partly because how GAF maintains the community and moderates it, starting from how a user would need to sign up in the first place.
It'll either be extremely complex or just not possible to have it done over the whole internet.
But I am assuming the same procedure could be emulated over popular sites like Twitter or Facebook, but that would mean either of the sites would lose 99% of their user base.
Edit: I would mostly blame anonymity of the users for the current events (like the author being threatened), that partly motivates people to do it.
Obviously that isn't what I meant. My point was that all people suffer in some way and it is unfair to say that suffering X is worse than suffering Y as if it is a competition. That is not the same as noting that "women face more issues than men". I was replying to a very specific comment and nothing else.
So a better example would be that you don't compare the suffering of a young male teenager that commits suicide over being gay with a young female teenager that commits suicide over slut-shaming, and then make statements like "the guy can never understand the suffering of the girl".
Have you considered the possibility that if you need to stretch out a long causal chain of exact conversational contexts in order to explain your statement because it sounds bad without all those carefully-noted provisos, it might be because what you said is kind of messed up?
Overall I like her videos, even when I may not agree with some stuff since insome cases you can see she didn't played the game...but that's another topic.
Still sucks what she's going through. Don't know what sone of this people win by doing this because even if she decides to stop doing this videos there are many...millions out there that share her point of view. If anything she needs to join with other people and start making more stuff; rather than just herself.
That way it would be possible for someone to start a blog/FAQ and answer questions and explain more which is what many don't like about her.
I've taken the day to cool down and hopefully not just post an incoherent rant, but I get the feeling this is going to be fairly close to one.
I have had enough of this bullshit behaviour and I'm not even one of the people unlucky enough to be targeted for it.
The past fortnight has been a watershed moment for me. I've always been pro-equality and whilst it's been frustrating, I've played nice with the opposite viewpoint. No more.
From here on, I don't let it slide. I don't think "Oh, they'll learn". I don't roll my eyes. If I see anyone here or on any other media propagating a bullshit line of "defence" I will call you out because these people are making me ashamed to be a gamer.
I'm sick of people going "SJWs are stifling my opinions by jumping down my throat". I ask those of you doing so to just think for ten seconds and ask yourself: "Hey, is the reason people are getting this upset with me because I'm wrong?"
These attitudes and the actions of the extreme elements are what are stifling progression. Nobody wants to take your games away. Nobody wants to censor what you already have or will be getting. Nobody wants to make out that you are a horrible person for having played these games. The point of Anita's videos have been to show what lazy, regressive tropes have been prevalent so that established and up-and-coming developers can choose to try and do it differently next time.
Sure, the videos are not 100% perfect in their execution yet. This is fairly new territory they're treading in the grand scheme of things. There are points that both you and I can critique and praise. However, dismissing them entirely is not a valid stance. If that is you, then You. Are. Wrong.
I'm not going to respect that sort of position any more because it doesn't deserve it. I'm no longer going to balance the scales whilst one group pretends there are no scales and another takes a sledgehammer to them.
This is what a campaign of bullshit has driven me to.
I've wanted to do streaming on twitch, but all the swatting and doxxing shit scare me away every time. I can't even imagine how hard it would be to sustain as a woman.
But see, the movement is about giving women a choice. For such a long time, every woman has been seen as the same thing, time and again. Every woman wants to be a housewife, a nurse, etc, but women are not a hivemind. We have our own wants.
Some women want freedom to enjoy their sexuality. Some women want to preserve themselves for marriage. Some want to dance, some want be rappers. All of these women will tell you a different way sexism has damaged their progress. That is why feminism is about the individual, and varies but ultimately means~ giving women a choice.
If feminism says feminism is about women who work, it benefits the nurse, but not the housewife. If feminism says, give women more jobs meant for men, the women who don't want those jobs don't benefit. That is why it's best to ask women what they want from feminism. Because feminism is that flexible.
I want feminism to help minorities take our identity back instead of being seen as fetish fuel and being objectified. I want feminism to embrace the struggles of female minorities and give us something to be proud of~ boost us up so that creepy dudes stop assuming we need to be taken away from our "evil men" when instead, we need all men to see our worth. We don't need rescue, we need options and encouragement.
I wish I understood it as well. Cause it's not like girls who grew up gaming and being nerds and such didn't go through the same things the guys went through. We were bullied as well, rejected, ect. But for some reason the entire idea that we are not 'legit' enough is pervasive. Like we're invading someone else's territory. It's disturbing.
For whatever reason the "male nerd experience" for apparently a lot if guys fostered an actual resentment towards women. You see it in any "fake nerd" discussion, the idea that these geeky interests were their escape from the women or the popular kids or whatever.
