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[BocoDragon]

I was kind of commenting on the mention of cultural difference by clarifying that it's more like a difference in creep culture than something which would be normal and intellectually fulfilling to Japanese people in general.

Also, one of my main complaints I've expressed about anime is the lack of realistic characters.

I actually do think there's a cultural difference. It's not just in fringe cartoons. The culture in general is far more cavalier about sexualization.

When it comes to teasing apart Japan and Anime, you don't want to confirm that common weeaboo misconception that the culture is just as you see it in these cartoons (especially when it turns out that they are for a tiny audience)... But at the same time, their country is plastered with manga girls in suggestive poses - in convenience stores, billboards, etc.. So you have to ask yourself how fringe some of these tendencies are. I am certain that the average Japanese is normalized to it in media... Though of course that doesn't mean it plays out like that in social interaction.

 

[Crash Station]

The problem is the only adult targeted animation in western markets is comedies like Archer or Simpsons. No one could make an animated drama like Cowboy Bebop or Welcome to the NHK or Monster.

Well there's Heavy Metal, Aeon Flux, and....

 

[Chariot]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread, guys. My post wasn't meant to troll or insult; it's only my insight on the issue. I've actually talked to friends about this in the past, and we came to the same conclusion. However, I'm glad you guys have different opinions. I think I understand what you are saying; not all anime is intended for children.

Oi mate, this isn't about opinion. Not liking the classic anime artstyle or common tropes is an opinion. Claiming that anime are only aimed at children is an false fact. Apparently you and your friend discussed the issue without actually knowing much about it.

You should take some time and read the thread and then share it with your friends.

Well there's Heavy Metal, Aeon Flux, and....

Isn't Heavy Metal a movie only? And even if we count that, there IS a clear lack of serious cartoons for adult audiences. Or even for adolescent ones. There are a few gems like ATLA or Young Justice, but there is a general lack due the constraints of the networks.

 

[Molemitts]

Only animes I like are:

• Death Note (Actually only read the manga for this one)
• Fullmetal Alchemist (This was just a really fun anime, with great pacing and perfect mix of action and plot)
• Madoka (Even this had a few anime tropes that annoyed me but overall it was very good.)

Pretty much everything else I've watched is either garbage or has an interesting plot with awful world building and characters (See Code Geass)

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

Overall I really don't like anime.

 

[HK-47]

Only animes I like are:

• Death Note (Actually only read the manga for this one)
• Fullmetal Alchemist (This was just a really fun anime, with great pacing and perfect mix of action and plot)
• Madoka (Even this had a few anime tropes that annoyed me but overall it was very good.)

Pretty much everything else I've watched is either garbage or has an interesting plot with awful world building and characters (See Code Geass)

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

Overall I really don't like anime.

They like Neon Genesis for its character analysis and introspection and for being a mold breaker and trailblazer in mecha anime and anime in general. Also the action still holds up I think, even though its main focus isnt on the action itself.

 

[Crash Station]

Only animes I like are:

• Death Note (Actually only read the manga for this one)
• Fullmetal Alchemist (This was just a really fun anime, with great pacing and perfect mix of action and plot)
• Madoka (Even this had a few anime tropes that annoyed me but overall it was very good.)

Pretty much everything else I've watched is either garbage or has an interesting plot with awful world building and characters (See Code Geass)

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

Overall I really don't like anime.

Madoka, eh? Not usually something you see when people say they only like a few series.

Try Bokurano. Madoka ripped off a lot of stuff from it.

 

[HK-47]

Oi mate, this isn't about opinion. Not liking the classic anime artstyle or common tropes is an opinion. Claiming that anime are only aimed at children is an false fact. Apparently you and your friend discussed the issue without actually knowing much about it.

You should take some time and read the thread and then share it with your friends.

Isn't Heavy Metal a movie only? And even if we count that, there IS a clear lack of serious cartoons for adult audiences. Or even for adolescent ones. There are a few gems like ATLA or Young Justice, but there is a general lack due the constraints of the networks.

Also they tend to get cancelled cause they dont sell enough toys.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Only animes I like are:

• Death Note (Actually only read the manga for this one)
• Fullmetal Alchemist (This was just a really fun anime, with great pacing and perfect mix of action and plot)
• Madoka (Even this had a few anime tropes that annoyed me but overall it was very good.)

Pretty much everything else I've watched is either garbage or has an interesting plot with awful world building and characters (See Code Geass)

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

Overall I really don't like anime.

...
Have you only watched the 5 series you mentioned?

 

[-Ryn]

I'd say that if anything, anime has been becoming more accepted in western culture as time goes on. You can find plenty of things that are "animesque" in their design whether it be cartoons on tv or movies. Crazy hair and large eyes especially.

In regards to fanservice and harem elements in a series, is the issue with the abundance of it across the medium or the very presence of it at all?

 

[Heroman]

Only animes I like are:

• Death Note (Actually only read the manga for this one)
• Fullmetal Alchemist (This was just a really fun anime, with great pacing and perfect mix of action and plot)
• Madoka (Even this had a few anime tropes that annoyed me but overall it was very good.)

Pretty much everything else I've watched is either garbage or has an interesting plot with awful world building and characters (See Code Geass)

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

Overall I really don't like anime.

Try hunter x hunter,has great characters and great world building.

 

[Jex]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread, guys. My post wasn't meant to troll or insult; it's only my insight on the issue. I've actually talked to friends about this in the past, and we came to the same conclusion. However, I'm glad you guys have different opinions. I think I understand what you are saying; not all anime is intended for children.

No problem, I mean you're completely correct to say anime is aimed at kids (young kids and then teenagers) but you can't forget that anime is also aimed at creeps! Just remember: anime is for kids and creeps!

(I'm kind of being serious here).

 

[HK-47]

I'd say that if anything, anime has been becoming more accepted in western culture as time goes on. You can find plenty of things that are "animesque" in their design whether it be cartoons on tv or movies. Crazy hair and large eyes especially.

In regards to fanservice and harem elements in a series, is the issue with the abundance of it across the medium or the very presence of it at all?

I say its creepiness to western audiences and its overuse in place of writing interesting situations and characters.

 

[BocoDragon]

Also what the fuck do people like about Neon Genesis Evangeleon? I tried to watch it, got pretty far into it and still thought it was incredibly boring.

I'd say, if you were less than 1/3rd into it, you didn't get into it. That's because what's interesting about it isn't the mech show aspect - it's how a disturbing backstory is revealed and paves the way for inner psychological turmoil.

It's a little like playing Metal Gear Solid. If you think it's just about a super spy who has to stop a nuclear launch, you didn't get the fucked up parts that make it remarkable.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Also, everyone here should watch Baccano if they haven't

 

[munchie64]

Death Note, Fullmetal Alchemist and Madoka aren't exactly insane new ground. Kinda crazy you'd like those but nothing else. What in particular drew you to those?

 

[Crash Station]

Isn't Heavy Metal a movie only? And even if we count that, there IS a clear lack of serious cartoons for adult audiences. Or even for adolescent ones. There are a few gems like ATLA or Young Justice, but there is a general lack due the constraints of the networks.

Well yeah, that was my point. The fact I couldn't think of a single non-comedy cartoon with a higher than TV-Y7 rating beyond Aeon Flux is to show how underrepresented the variety of the medium is.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Evangelion has very interesting visual design, and a novel use of some pretty obscure religious symbology. And there are some characterizations that are pretty "high-concept" for the medium. There is nothing really below the surface, though.

 

[HK-47]

I'd say, if you were less than 1/3rd into it, you didn't get into it. That's because what's interesting about it isn't the mech show aspect - it's how a disturbing backstory is revealed and paves the way for inner psychological turmoil.

It's a little like playing Metal Gear Solid. If you think it's just about a super spy who has to stop a nuclear launch, you didn't get the fucked up parts that make it remarkable.

I liked NGE more when I just pretended (realized?) the religious symbolism was mostly just thrown in there for shits and giggles and focused on the characters and their interactions. Obviously if you are still at the stage where you expect a fun action mecha series you are likely to be very unhappy.

 

[munchie64]

The religious symbolism in NGE was literally put in there to make it look cool. And I kinda appreciate it for that.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Evangelion has very interesting visual design, and a novel use of some pretty obscure religious symbology. And there are some characterizations that are pretty "high-concept" for the medium. There is nothing really below the surface, though.

The plot is very much an afterthought. The characters were always the focus of Evangelion I felt.

 

[Molemitts]

They like Neon Genesis for its character analysis and introspection and for being a mold breaker and trailblazer in mecha anime and anime in general. Also the action still holds up I think.

All the characters seemed like generic anime archetypes to me. I didn't find their to be much character development either. I really didn't feel like their was much to it at all, considering the amount of people calling it a "masterpiece".

...
Have you only watched the 5 series you mentioned?

No I've watched a fair few animes. I could list them for you if you really want. Those are just one that I wanted to mention.

Try hunter x hunter,has great characters and great world building.

I've heard a lot about it, I'll check it out sometime.

I'd say, if you were less than 1/3rd into it, you didn't get into it. That's because what's interesting about it isn't the mech show aspect - it's how a disturbing backstory is revealed and paves the way for inner psychological turmoil.

It's a little like playing Metal Gear Solid. If you think it's just about a super spy who has to stop a nuclear launch, you didn't get the fucked up parts that make it remarkable.

I got to episode 14 or 15 which I'm sure is over halfway through it. Still wasn't interesting.

 

[Heroman]

All the characters seemed like generic anime archetypes to me. I didn't find their to be much character development either. I really didn't feel like their was much to it at all, considering the amount of people calling it a "masterpiece".



No I've watched a fair few animes. I could list them for you if you really want. Those are just one that I wanted to mention.



I've heard a lot about it, I'll check it out sometime.



I got to episode 14 or 15 which I'm sure is over halfway through it. Still wasn't interesting.

List them
HXH is like the best shoenen anime I have ever seen so get right to it.

 

[Jex]

Well, I mean, it's not a dealbreaker that every shot doesn't look pristine and movie-like; conventional television has the same budgetary challenges. Rather, I hoped to express that the animation quality of much of what I've seen is a barrier to me. The same is true with "western" cartoons as well; I don't generally like animated stuff unless the animation is very vibrant.

I know your only expressing your preference here, which is fine, but some of the best creators working in anime have had to face budget/time/staff limitations. A number of works that I'd personally rate (not that my opinion holds any weight) very highly such as LOGH, Mononoke, Evangelion, Doremi, Utena, Patlabor all feature sequences with very limited animation. However the competency of the directors are enough resourceful and skilled enough to make up for shortcomings in budget through stylish and effective direction. Anime itself has been built on the notion of limited animation which was invented to allow the industry to exist at all, which is why you see so many stylised (but not necessarily smooth) animations.

The reality of the matter is that there's no way that most shows could get made to the kind of standards that anime movies get made to because anime would then become far too expensive to exist. I know you're probably aware of that but I feel like, for the really well directed shows, you might not actually find it that big of a hindrance.

I just felt that the OP's suggestion that there's plenty of anime out there that doesn't reflect the things that bug people about anime was maybe a little broad. Not that the content doesn't exist, because I know it does and I've enjoyed much of what I've watched. But rather that it occupies a very small niche in an industry otherwise calibrated to produce a very specific type of content, and thus it should not be surprising that people out there exist who "don't enjoy anime" in very general terms.

This is all true. I understand that it's genuinely quite a bit of work to find shows that fall outside the usual bracket of "shows for kids and shows for otaku". The problem is that there isn't, really, any trusted critics or sources you can turn to for advice and guidance on this topic. If you were to go online and look up "top anime" you'd just find a lot of objectionable stuff made for teenage boys.

This isn't just a perception problem, it's a resource problem which is why myself and others work hard to produce lists, threads, and posts that detail more interesting and diverse works. In addition, we always try to provide advice and guidance for anyone who needs it in the main anime thread. Of course, they might still end up watching Eden of the East against my advice

Shows do not need to have political themes, but I provide it in the list as a way of causing people to gravitate towards content that asks questions, that tells us something about humanity, etc. I am not interested in dating shows or high school shows as a rule, and I am not interested in fighting shows as a rule. I am not interested in long, drawn-out plots; I am interested in theme. This is something that is true of my taste in other mediums to a degree, including in gaming.

You'd think that Stump, but then people go ahead and recommend you a ton of action shows for teenage boys! Perhaps people just aren't reading your words carefully enough?

 

[LaserBuddha]

It's a little like playing Metal Gear Solid. If you think it's just about a super spy who has to stop a nuclear launch, you didn't get the fucked up parts that make it remarkable.

Gerstmann was right.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

All the characters seemed like generic anime archetypes to me. I didn't find their to be much character development either. I really didn't feel like their was much to it at all, considering the amount of people calling it a "masterpiece".

That's kinda the thing. Originally, yes they are meant to be generic archetypes that are eventually turned on their head, as is the case with deconstructions.

 

[HK-47]

I tried searching for seinen anime and that got me some of good hits. Also got some list where Attack on Titan was apparently seinen but what you gonna do. I do agree that there really isnt a resource for searching out adult animation other than readings lots of opinions and filtering.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I would call for a moratorium on people making arguments in this thread that been debunked multiple times but that would require people to actually read the thread. I suggest that it may prove informative to scan a few pages as this, aiming with many other arguments, have been thoroughly debunked.

Questions like these suggest a fundamental misconception in the mind of the asker about what anime actually is in terms of the industry as a whole. It is nothing like, say, the American live action television market. For one, it's far far smaller, a fraction of a fraction of the size. More importantly, though, is how and why anime get made. Many, many shows get made to simply sell something whether it's toys, manga or light novels. It's audience is largely kids, teenagers and 'otaku' (who can be any age). It's creators are underpaid and overworked, sleeping at their desks and eating ramen to stay alive. It's a cheap business designed to move product.

At no point is anyone really incentivised to make something along the lines of, say, The Wire (which would be made in live action anyway, and even then it wouldn't exist because Japanese TV has no interest in such stories) and if anyone ever tried to do something like that they'd just lose a lot of money.

It's kind of like asking why there aren't any American cartoons like The Wire.

I don't think it's a completely unfair question though. Anime was originally made because at the time it began to come about, Japan didn't have the money or an equivalent like Hollywood to compete with Western films in live-action, so they did those as animation. Something like Astro Boy would've been live-action if Japan had a film industry at the time to support it.

But I think you're right in that asking that kind of question is slightly myopic. A story like The Wire (or Breaking Bad to a similar extent) focuses on societal and economical concepts that may exist in varying forms across the world, but in its case are distinctly an American experience. Part of that show's charm is in its authenticity and portrayals of government and societal institutions and their effects on inner-city populations. I'm sure Japan has a few slum-like areas comparable to Baltimore but by and large they're extremely isolated. An anime equivalent of The Wire would more likely feature the Yakuza than normal street thugs, b/c Japanese youth in Japanese cities don't have the same institutions, systemic practices, corruptions or cultural makeup as inner-city Baltimore does.

If they're asking that question just on a more general "dealing with semi-realistic socio-economic politics and commentary", though, that opens up quite a few anime that can satisfy as long as the person asking has a wide range of tolerance for things that don't exactly do things the way The Wire does them.

I tried searching for seinen anime and that got me some of good hits. Also got some list where Attack on Titan was apparently seinen but what you gonna do. I do agree that there really isnt a resource for searching out adult animation other than readings lots of opinions and filtering.

Lots of people recommend Monster and if you can get through the slow pacing of the first few episodes I'd say it's probably worth watching. It is definitely unique in the anime world and pretty much a ground story set in a believable reality. You could almost call it a sort of docu-drama in anime form.

Categorization btwn shonen and seinen is kind of screwed up, b/c the only real differences is the age. Seinen is basically shonen meant for late teens, adults, and businessmen. Otherwise a lot of themes are similar between the two.

Though for example and even though it's a manga, there's zero way BAA: Last Order would throw around real science on D-Theory in its story if it was a shonen. That's simply too complex for the typical shonen audience.

 

[pants]

I tried searching for seinen anime and that got me some of good hits. Also got some list where Attack on Titan was apparently seinen but what you gonna do. I do agree that there really isnt a resource for searching out adult animation other than readings lots of opinions and filtering.

Try MAL http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php

Seinen tends to get the high user ratings

 

[Real Hero]

Its also kind of asking why are there no other shows like The Wire before or since.

Yeah fair point. I was mainly just wondering if there was any standouts in a similar way The Wire stands out for its overall quality and real world value.

 

[HK-47]

Try MAL http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php

Seinen tends to get the high user ratings

Thats not really helpful, especially in a case like Stump's. Lots of shounen (including battle anime) and slice of life up in there.

 

[The Silver]

MAL would trick some poor fool into thinking SAO is a good show.

 

[pants]

If anybody wants specific recommendations, they are free to ask me. There are already people providing good answers in here so I dont feel I need to be anything but that guy that answers generally

 

[Molemitts]

List them
HXH is like the best shoenen anime I have ever seen so get right to it.

When I was 12 years old I went through my Naruto Phase and watched all of the original Naruto anime, I got up to when

Spoiler

Sasuke killed Itachi

(in the manga) since I felt like the story had finished for me and by that point I was getting pretty bored of it.

I used to watch Pokemon when I was younger.
I don't know if it counts but Avatar: The last Airbender was pretty cool when I watched it years ago.
Cowboy Bebop up to about 5 episodes in
Gurren lagann first episode didn't hook me at all and mechs are boring.
Dragon Ball Z is pretty okay.
a few Studio Ghibli films that are okay
Bleach, didn't enjoy it got about 15 episodes in or so.
There's probably a few others I can't remember. I'll edit if I do.

 

[BocoDragon]

Gerstmann was right.

He was

 

[Rebel Leader]

MAL would trick some poor fool into thinking SAO is a good show.

And then they find out about 16.5

 

[Heroman]

When I was 12 years old I went through my Naruto Phase and watched all of the original Naruto anime, I got up to when

Spoiler

Sasuke killed Itachi

(in the manga) since I felt like the story had finished for me and by that point I was getting pretty bored of it.

I used to watch Pokemon when I was younger.
I don't know if it counts but Avatar: The last Airbender was pretty cool when I watched it years ago.
Cowboy Bebop up to about 5 episodes in
Gurren lagann first episode didn't hook me at all and mechs are boring.
Dragon Ball Z is pretty okay.
a few Studio Ghibli films that are okay
Bleach, didn't enjoy it got about 15 episodes in or so.
There's probably a few others I can't remember. I'll edit if I do.

1. No one can watch all of OG Naruto and after saskue kill itachi some crazy fucking shit happen .
2.Why do you mechs are boring
3. What do you like?

 

[Molemitts]

1. No one can watch all of OG Naruto
2.Why do you mechs are boring
3. What do you like?

1. 12 year olds can
2. They take away the whole human element from fighting.
3. Stories with good plot and interesting characters that actually develop over time. Where's there's a grand scheme throughout the story. If every story could just be Game of Thrones that would be nice.

 

[HK-47]

I've already watched Monster in both sub and dub.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I've already watched Monster in both sub and dub.

Fantastic show

 

[Klyka]

I'm 29, pretty attractive, have a great GF, a job and lots of friends.

And I watch anime. All kinds of anime. From the "ultra shit" tier to the "really good classic" tier. I've been watching anime for over 15 years now and never has it been anything else than "something i just watch cause i enjoy it/to pass the time".

People who are obsessed with anime and fill their life in it are not different from people who are obsessed with anything else. It is often not healthy and it can lead them down dark paths.

Just keep it as a hobby and not a pillar of your existence and you'll be fine.

 

[Heroman]

1. 12 year olds can
2. They take away the whole human element from fighting.
3. Stories with good plot and interesting characters that actually develop over time. Where's there's a grand scheme throughout the story. If every story could just be Game of Thrones that would be nice.

I was 12 when I watch naruto and I could make it
2. Eh, there are some real goog shows with mecha in them.
3.Jojo bizarre adventure is good , but it is over the top . And Hunter x hunter .

 

[RedSwirl]

As explained previously, the shows have always been bad. It's just that now every single show is made available to the English speaking audience instead of a select few.

Honestly, this post isn't wrong.

People in this thread have already said that, generally, 90 percent of everything is crap, and anime is no different. The difference is when anime first started getting wide exposure in the west during the 80's and 90's, a very limited amount of it got translated. Usually, what got translated was the cream of the crop, which probably only increased western fascination with anime. When the boom of the early 00's happened localization companies started bringing over everything they could get their hands on, much of it having no chance of actually selling over here. A lot of people got burned out upon seeing a more broad spectrum of the anime that get's produced in Japan. A while ago I listened to a podcast from Anime News Network where they interviewed a guy who worked at Geneon before its demise (I think), and he said a lot of the anime DVDs they brought over sold less than 100 copies in North America. A few particularly unlucky shows may have even sold in the single digits! Today, good anime still get's made, but you gotta wade through more crap to find it.

The most frustrating thing about anime to me is this propensity that creators have for jamming offensive, male-gazey sexualization into otherwise quality shows. American television just doesn't do this as a rule--even schlock like Dexter doesn't make it a point to shove T&A and misogyny in your face. Where it exists in American TV, it's usually there for a reason (The Sopranos, Game of Thrones) or isolated in self-aware trashy pulp (True Blood). As far as I know, America doesn't really have the equivalent; it would be like if Peggy in Mad Men wore skimpy outfits and had scenes where she ended up comically naked sandwiched right between two scenes subtly exploring Don Draper's character flaws through the lens of changing social mores in the 1960s. Even that's kind of an unfair comparison. No Game No Life is basically Burn Notice with better world-building, but Burn Notice managed to be a light, entertaining problem-solving procedural without having Gabrielle Anwar giggling and sudsing up every week.

I like genre stories and anime is way more open to them than other visual mediums; there are a lot of anime concepts that I think sound compelling or could be great shows. But every time I try one I feel like I'm holding my breath just waiting for this bullshit to rear its stupid head and ruin the story I'm watching.

I agree this is definitely a problem. As I said in an earlier post, it's that need producers have now to put fanservice in almost everything. The industry (along with Japanese gaming) has receded to the point where it subsists almost entirely on the otaku fanbase, so the material just get's more and more insular and weird. It reaches a point where otherwise good shows that could probably stand on their own have fanservice sliced into them because producers think it's a business necessity.

That said, wasn't there at least one effort recently to try to open some anime back up to the mainstream? I know there's noitaminA ("Animation" spelled backwards) which is supposed to be a block for more mainstream appeal. Some interesting shows came out of that.

I tried searching for seinen anime and that got me some of good hits. Also got some list where Attack on Titan was apparently seinen but what you gonna do. I do agree that there really isnt a resource for searching out adult animation other than readings lots of opinions and filtering.

More people who generalize anime should probably know this. Anime isn't just codified into sub-genres but also fairly clean-cut demographic divisions. The most popular anime that many people probably think represent all anime are shounen -- shows mainly targeted at teenage boys. Seinen is pretty similar but mainly written for young adult men. Seinen is the demographic where you get stuff like Berserk, Ghost in the Shell, or Akira. Because it's not as popular as Shounen it doesn't get as much exposure, and these days it's harder to come across. This thread is evidence that you basically have to ask people for suggestions on good anime to suit their tastes. It basically never shows up in the periphery vision of mainstream western audiences.

This is why I tell absolutely no one I watch anime, unless a person who also watches anime asks me if I do, which would be extremely rare to say the least. I don't watch a whole lot anyway, but the internet is my only outlet for me to talk about it, which is a bit depressing. I stayed away from those high school/college clubs and conventions, because I also thought some of those people were kind of obnoxious. Just the way it has to be I guess.

I have to admit, even when I did watch quite a bit of anime in high school and college, I generally didn't hang out with a lot of people who watched anime. Maybe a handful of friends but I didn't mess with the anime clubs. Though most of the time it was because I didn't like people who were snobby about how they watched anime: People who hated dubs under all circumstances, people who wouldn't buy DVDs because they didn't like official subs that removed Japanese honorifics, things like that.

Admitting you watch anime outside of that is kind of like a "show me yours and I'll show you mine" thing.

 

[Jex]

I don't think it's a completely unfair question though. Anime was originally made because at the time it began to come about, Japan didn't have the money or an equivalent like Hollywood to compete with Western films in live-action, so they did those as animation. Something like Astro Boy would've been live-action if Japan had a film industry at the time to support it.

Okay, so, not to sound like a dick, but there are a number of factual inaccuracies in this post that I need to address.

- Anime was being made for many decades before Mushi Production (Osamu Tezuka, creator of Astro Boy, own personal studio) animated Astro Boy. Anime was 'made' for all kinds of reasons, mainly because people they could.

- Much of it was created for business reasons (the same as any field), often so that you could produce something for display at small exhibitions, travelling entertainemnt etc. It was, and is, a business.

- Like any industry, lots of people produced anime for lots of reasons. I don't think there was any push for anyone to create animation simply because Hollywood was producing live action films of a certain quality. After all, live action and animation are two very different industries and there wasn't anyone controlling the entire industry and steering it in a certain direction. There was no one to say "lets make anime because we can't make big budget movies!".

- There was animation created in the Disney method, specifically to attempt to emulate their style, however Toei (the studio behind such projects) found that to be incredibly expensive and time consuming.

- On the specific subject of Astro Boy you actually have it backwards. Astro Boy first existed as a live action series in the 50's because people at the time thought it would be impossible to make an animated TV series of the same material. The anime came later.

But I think you're right in that asking that kind of question is slightly myopic. A story like The Wire (or Breaking Bad to a similar extent) focuses on societal and economical concepts that may exist in varying forms across the world, but in its case are distinctly an American experience. Part of that show's charm is in its authenticity and portrayals of government and societal institutions and their effects on inner-city populations. I'm sure Japan has a few slum-like areas comparable to Baltimore but by and large they're extremely isolated. An anime equivalent of The Wire would more likely feature the Yakuza than normal street thugs, b/c Japanese youth in Japanese cities don't have the same institutions, systemic practices, corruptions or cultural makeup as inner-city Baltimore does.

You're right that there's a certain myopia involved, but the bigger problem with the question is that it suggests if you wanted to tell such a story you'd even consider telling it in an anime. For the most part, you wouldn't. If you wanted to discuss those ideas you'd do it in a medium that made sense for the material, such as literature. If you were so inclined I suppose you could even make a manga, but that would require artistic talent. What you wouldn't think is "ah, anime is the best medium for this story" because it isn't.

 

[-Ryn]

1. 12 year olds can
2. They take away the whole human element from fighting.
3. Stories with good plot and interesting characters that actually develop over time. Where's there's a grand scheme throughout the story. If every story could just be Game of Thrones that would be nice.

1. I've somehow managed... I just want it to end...
2. What do you mean "human element"? Gurren Lagann and Evangelion were entirely focused on the "human element". Do you mean the physicality between humans in a fight?
3. Hyperbole right? Right?
I can understand wanting an overarching plot but not every story is meant to be structured that way. I'm assuming you just mean that in terms of story structure and not the tropes within it. I'd rather not have every story use "anyone can die" by default.

 

[kevm3]

It's like they drained all of the testosterone of most of these modern animes. I'm tired of pretty boys in metrosexual gear and little needs to be said about all the 'moe' stuff

 

[BocoDragon]

More people who generalize anime should probably know this. Anime isn't just codified into sub-genres but also fairly clean-cut demographic divisions. The most popular anime that many people probably think represent all anime are shounen -- shows mainly targeted at teenage boys. Seinen is pretty similar but mainly written for young adult men. Seinen is the demographic where you get stuff like Berserk, Ghost in the Shell, or Akira. Because it's not as popular as Shounen it doesn't get as much exposure, and these days it's harder to come across. This thread is evidence that you basically have to ask people for suggestions on good anime to suit their tastes. It basically never shows up in the periphery vision of mainstream western audiences.

You know... I was never into shounen even when I was a teenage boy. I always liked the more adult, thinky stuff.

I wonder how many conversations I've had with people who "don't like anime" who were really "don't like shounen" and didn't realize it? I'm not into those 500 episode, monster of the week shows either. I'd think it were a rather waste of time too.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

It's like they drained all of the testosterone of most of these modern animes. I'm tired of pretty boys in metrosexual gear and little needs to be said about all the 'moe' stuff

Boy do I have the anime for you

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Get on it

 

[fredrancour]

You know... I was never into shounen even when I was a teenage boy. I always liked the more adult, thinky stuff.

I wonder how many conversaloOtions I've had with people who "don't like anime" who were really "don't like shounen" and didn't realize it? I'm not into those 500 episode, monster of the week shows either. I'd think it were a rather waste of time too.

Probably nearly all of them. As much as the internet loves ranting about poorly-done sexual content in anime, stuff like dbz, Pokemon, and Naruto still makes up almost all anime exposure for people who don't actually watch the stuff.

 

[Chariot]

It's like they drained all of the testosterone of most of these modern animes. I'm tired of pretty boys in metrosexual gear and little needs to be said about all the 'moe' stuff

I am so sorry for your insecurity and lack of abiltiy to choose anime that don't strengthen that insecurity. There are anime with cute girls, there are anime with pretty boys and there are anime without both. There are anime that are so manly your balls detonate in a cluster of more balls. You just have to know where to look.

Like in the past. Or did Cardcaptor Sakura make you a man?

 

[-Ryn]

It's like they drained all of the testosterone of most of these modern animes. I'm tired of pretty boys in metrosexual gear and little needs to be said about all the 'moe' stuff

Kill La Kill?