Yeah, Syria almost got bombed by US for that.
Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
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????? When did the US bomb Assad????
Syria almost got bombed by the US for using chemical weapons against civilians. Surprisingly enough, normalising the use of chemical weapons is not a very good thing.
CyclopsRock
Member
Really? I mean you genuinely aren't sure?
Oh I'm sure it's true that they sent a letter, VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity) have been around for a while. They've sent open letters like this before. That's not the issue - the issue is that they have no significance. They're a bunch of retired analysts that's been out of the loop for years and who have a contrarian streak. They "warned" the US government in 2010 about an impending invasion of Iran by Israel that obvious didn't happen, among other things.
By the way, the term "intelligence veteran" is a red flag when dealing with conspiracy theorists. It's very practical to call yourself one because you can appeal to authority or do a special pleading by referring to government secrets because no-one can call to you on it. If someone does, they just handwave it by saying it's a coverup. Anyone claiming to be an "intelligence veyeran" should always be treated with extreme skepticism.
Cold War II is an actual wikipedia article now.
Dictator93
Member
The discourse has reached such levels of absurdity, that we are already classifying epochs.
Fuck that article for being so stupid.
They also cut it off early. They forgot to include the segment where the S-300VM unit is reduced to scrap by the inevitable NATO SEAD strike. The S-300VM is most likely the best SAM system in the world but if they use it the way they did in the video that unit would have a life expectancy of about half an hour.
lol, I remember a few years back when Iran was showing off all kinds of missile defense systems as a "warning" to a potential US invasion. A few years of sanctions later, they are shutting down weapon's grade plutonium enrichment all on their own. The only response to that sort of shit is to laugh.
I'd love to see an ad about some dude sitting at a 9 monitor set-up staring at financial charts, somehow saving Russia from economic sanctions. Dramatic music et al.
I swear some people get erections at the thought of another US/EU/Russia stand-off -_-'
Phantast2k
Member
Huge military column on LNR territory, between Krasnodon and Luhansk - rag tag separatists, init?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uisl4gqfIl0
Another VICE News dispatch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrSb8G57cI
People sure like to blame Poroshenko even if Russia attacks..
Reaching "thanks Obama" levels soon. But seriously though, I'm sure Ukrainian military hit civilian targets at times, but that's no reason to shift the blame for the conflict since:
1) Russia started it and keeps heating it up, even outright invades right now.
2) When people say that the Ukrainian army simply came to them with weapons with weapons, they are lying to themselves because Russian "volunteers" along with Crimean "green men" were the ones who came in April and massacred, detained a whole lot of people who they considered to be / suspected of being loyal to Ukraine ....or those who simply didn't fit (like the 3 sons of a Evangelical pastor..see VICE dispatch on mass graves in Sloviansk).
3) The so called rebels, separatists et al. don't just hide between civilians / fire from civilian areas, but use heavy machinery from within those areas, like so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIGG4JUSuTY
They hold the people hostage in their war are very well able to shell residential areas too since they possess mortars, tanks, artilery and MRLS just like the Ukrainian army.
Cameron: we will permanently damage Russia's economy
Good.
Better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uisl4gqfIl0
Good.
A typical Soviet company consisted of 100 ppl. according to wikipedia.
Another VICE News dispatch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrSb8G57cI
People sure like to blame Poroshenko even if Russia attacks..
Reaching "thanks Obama" levels soon. But seriously though, I'm sure Ukrainian military hit civilian targets at times, but that's no reason to shift the blame for the conflict since:
1) Russia started it and keeps heating it up, even outright invades right now.
2) When people say that the Ukrainian army simply came to them with weapons with weapons, they are lying to themselves because Russian "volunteers" along with Crimean "green men" were the ones who came in April and massacred, detained a whole lot of people who they considered to be / suspected of being loyal to Ukraine ....or those who simply didn't fit (like the 3 sons of a Evangelical pastor..see VICE dispatch on mass graves in Sloviansk).
3) The so called rebels, separatists et al. don't just hide between civilians / fire from civilian areas, but use heavy machinery from within those areas, like so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIGG4JUSuTY
They hold the people hostage in their war are very well able to shell residential areas too since they possess mortars, tanks, artilery and MRLS just like the Ukrainian army.
Cameron: we will permanently damage Russia's economy
Good.
Better.
Delta Assault
Member
Now it just needs to be made into a VH1 nostalgia show ten years down the road.
So what I said is already happening, Putin is trying to get us to help Ukraine back down. The screws are starting to tighten as the Russian economy looks bleaker by the day.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/russia-calls-on-u-s-to-push-ukraine-into-halting-military-campaign-1409661603
Translation: we will be fucking bankrupt soon, please help us win.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/russia-calls-on-u-s-to-push-ukraine-into-halting-military-campaign-1409661603
Translation: we will be fucking bankrupt soon, please help us win.
Nikodemos
Member
captain_haddock_laugh.png
Best response would be to ban Russian banks from the SWIFT wire transfer system (effectively rendering them blind).
Austria will never support that, Cameron is an attention whore.
You got to be a troll or just loves Putin so much. Syria is not a free country. It is run by a military dictatorship. And just look at the rest of Russia allies. How much better are they? Or look at the allies in the cold war. There is a reason why most if not all of Eastern Europa HATES Russia today. They buttfucked the region for over 40 years.
whatever77
Banned
You can't economically sanction a large country like Russia. The sanction on Iran only work when both Russia and China agreed to the sanction. The sanction on Iran could very well collapse if no agreement is reach by the set dead line (end of 2014).
Phoenix
Member
Of course you can. Sanctions work against any nation. If you think the goal is to bankrupt the country and force their capitulation, that's not the goal.
Wikipedia said:
whatever77
Banned
The goal of the sanction is to make major impact on the country's economy. I am saying 1, it will be no where as effective as the Iran sanction and 2, many countries won't go alone with a Russia sanction.
I didn't say anything about bankrupting the country.
MonsterHunter
Member
whatever77
Banned
I wonder what's the milage of these suckers?
At least 116-120 vehicles.
TacticalFox88
Banned
If Russian intelligence even had the slightest bit of evidence that the west was going to try that, Putin would've outright annexed the entire Ukraine out of spite.
MonsterHunter
Member
People are geo-locating the military column to be in Ukraine, we'll see if the mainstream news agencies pick this up.
maniac-kun
Member
Some days ago spiegel.de posted a map about the new russia that the russians are speaking about:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-989206-743752.html
The stuff we see now looks like the start of the invasion to accomplish this.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-989206-743752.html
The stuff we see now looks like the start of the invasion to accomplish this.
It feels like Putin, got demoted to the kids table and laughed at, and now his egomania has taking him to the brink of war with the rest of the world. Lucky for him he is willing to do shit that scares the fuck out of NATO and China is a willing participant when it comes to the UN.
No worries though. The western cowardice will not lead to WW3. Russia will take the Ukraine, and the modern world will sit on our thumbs.
No worries though. The western cowardice will not lead to WW3. Russia will take the Ukraine, and the modern world will sit on our thumbs.
User Name Here
Member
What's ths about Russia thinking about using nukes?!
Russia told the world to back off because its a Nuclear power which is of course an implied threat.
Ukraine's Minister of Defense though has stated through other channels they have been warned to back out of the East or Tactical Nukes might be deployed.
Russia is the only Nuclear powers in the world who have it explicitly stated they accept the use of nuclear weapons even in a conventional war while other nuclear powers limit it to retaliatory usage almost exclusively.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
So you want WW3 or not? I'm confused.
No I do not. But the Ukraine is going to be conquered and we are all going to watch it happen. I really do not have an answer on how to stop it. Another revolution in Russia maybe. I complete embargo by the western world, but that will not happen.
speculawyer
Member
Not much we can do I guess. :-/
They are all crazy paranoid in Russia these days.
Save us Angela Merkel . . . come up with something.
BigWeather
Member
Not sure I'd look to Merkel -- she seems pretty complicit at this point. Not actively, but certainly passively. I understand that Russia has them by the balls energy-wise, but man... Sanctions with lots of teeth are needed.
It is very strange.
I know a lot of Eastern Europeans from my time working in Florida, and they are super excited for Russia to return to its former greatness. Despite working in the US and sending money back home, they believe that such a necessity is because of the influence of the west.
Anyway I actually dated a Russian girl, and we never talked politics because she was straight up red and I was closer to right then left in America.
Anyway she went home to see her family, and brought back one of those stacking dolls. And Lenin was the smallest, then Stalin, then Korishnakov, then Putin. and then that other douche who was Putinas puppet. They were already ignoring their recent history.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I pray that Ukraine can keep all of her lands. my girlfriend has friends in both Crimea (is happy about the situation) and Odessa(these friends are not)
and I have a neighbor who is Ukranian as well. great people. of course we also have Russian friends and they are just trying to go about their daily lives and hope that these sanctions don't hurt them that much. :'(
and I have a neighbor who is Ukranian as well. great people. of course we also have Russian friends and they are just trying to go about their daily lives and hope that these sanctions don't hurt them that much. :'(
whatever77
Banned
Germany Fairy Godmother needs Russia gas for winter, she isn't going to do shit.
Delta Assault
Member
It's either lay down and let Russia take over everything, or we want WW3 and everybody gets nuked and we all live in Cormac McCarthy's The Road.
Nothing in between those two scenarios, apparently.
The Road it is then. But please do not eat my kids. We can work some shit out.
IndoAssassin
Banned
What could America do military wise? They are already stretched thin with everything else that are dealing with in the world.
Their newest stealth fighter is in shambles right now. Without air superiority, they have already lost.
I think that whole Olympics budget overrun was to hide Putin beefing up his military
Their newest stealth fighter is in shambles right now. Without air superiority, they have already lost.
I think that whole Olympics budget overrun was to hide Putin beefing up his military
CitizenVectron
Member
While the F-35 is a giant mistake (well, some of it anyway), the US still holds technological edges over Russia in basically every field, including air. Even if the Russians can take down F-22s and F-35s (which of course we don't know since there haven't been any real life encounters), the US still has a huge advantage in numbers, intel-gathering, etc. Also the F-35 (which is the currently budget boondoggle) isn't a stealth fighter. That's the F-22 which has been in the air for quite a while. The US also currently has a veteran army from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, never mind the constant air strikes over the past 10 years in various states.
EDIT - Actually I don't want the thread to get bogged down in theoretical US/Russia comparisons, so I'll cut some of this out.
I'm not from the US and I don't support everything they do abroad, but there's no doubt that the US could take Russian in a conventional war, even in Europe.
Skynews on twitter "Reuters: Vladimir Putin's spokesman reportedly says Russian President has largely agreed way out of #Ukraine crisis with Ukrainian President"
Hope this is true could do without WW3, think weve been done this road before through Putin says one thing and does another!
Hope this is true could do without WW3, think weve been done this road before through Putin says one thing and does another!
I feel bad for Poroshenko in some ways because if this ends badly as far as Ukrainian opinions are concerned he wont be in office long.
Putins word is worth less than a dog shit though so will be a wait and see. He had the actual invasion begin even as he flew in for peace talks
Ukraine 'agrees truce' with Putin - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29042561
So Putin all but confirms it was him all along, and Poroshenko has effectively surrendered.
I wonder if this will lead to a new Maidan to get rid of Poroshenko....
Edit - Headline has been changed to "Ukraine agrees 'permanent truce' with rebels in east" on the bbc article.
So Putin all but confirms it was him all along, and Poroshenko has effectively surrendered.
I wonder if this will lead to a new Maidan to get rid of Poroshenko....
Edit - Headline has been changed to "Ukraine agrees 'permanent truce' with rebels in east" on the bbc article.
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