Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.

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So the Estonian security official is being paraded in Russian media right now. They confiscated a weapon and a lot of money from him, he is going to be charged for various offences next week - spying being the worst one I would assume.
 
ICKE said:
So the Estonian security official is being paraded in Russian media right now. They confiscated a weapon and a lot of money from him, he is going to be charged for various offences next week - spying being the worst one I would assume.
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pure provocation

Putin doesn't think the west is going to defend these NATO nations. Sad thing, I don't know if he's wrong.
 
Huge mil. convoy entering in Luhansk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIynh7rvc6w
Geo location from the dash cam: https://www.google.com/maps/place/48°22'46.1"N+39°52'29.6"E/

A Russian who didn't believe the reports about Russian soldiers in Ukraine, drove to one of the dead one's relatives' house and asked them himself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq-sX2FhFwQ (Ru only)

Apparently Aidar battalion got attacked today in the morning:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...ion-reports-11-losses-after-truce-363625.html
A Neo-Nazi Russian soldier posed next to the dead and posted it on VK (their FB):

Warning, spilled guts, burned ppl. ahead ~ please feel free to remove @ Mods

(NSFW) https://twitter.com/Ukroblogger/status/508313851662589952
(NSFW) http://ukrainewarlog.blogspot.de/2014/08/exclusive-leaked-spetsnaz-document.html
https://twitter.com/rob7news/status/508209086421557248
(NSFW) https://twitter.com/euromaidan/status/508204297344262144
(NSFW) https://twitter.com/SayNoEuro2012/status/508258277764108288
(NSFW) https://twitter.com/euromaidan/status/508201958491320320
His nazi gf:
(NSFW, t&a) https://twitter.com/rob7news/status/508223166020599810
https://twitter.com/rob7news/status/508230605398884352
bw2zcjyceaatjra.jpglaj7o20.jpg

HEIL PUTLER!

Another nazi Novorossian:
(NSFW) https://twitter.com/SWNiko/status/496969075793203201
(NSFW) https://twitter.com/Ukroblogger/status/508313547084804096

Thank fuck for social networks. Here's hoping he'll fertilize the Ukrainian soil soon.
 
Putin is following the Art of War thing, so if he says he agrees to a cease-fire, it means he is readying an invasion.
 
EricTheCleric said:
Nazis fighting nazis (aidar vs russian neonazis)

my my, what a strange world...
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I think you're talking about Azov - the only battalion with that type of fame. And even then, there's a slight difference between playing with (ultimately) Nordic symbolism and complete and utter Nazi symbolism.
I still dislike them and tried make sure that none of my donations went to them (although it's still non-lethal stuff that was bought with them).

The point is though, Russia of all places shouldn't be calling out nations on fascism / Nazism unless they don't want to be called hypocrites.

Dan27 said:
That youtube video is dated three days ago.
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And I have not stated anything to the contrary. Apparently it was uploaded today and is from a different convoy than the one from a few days ago which was filmed from a bus.

/says here that the convoy I posted above was going back to Russia:
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/09/another-27-russian-armor-on-way-back.html
 
Strictly said:
Can someone explain Russian neo-nazi to me? How does that make sense?
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Russian nationalism is some of the strangest, most schizophrenic shit there is. Just in this conflict you have Russian neo-Nazis invading Ukraine to protect people from imperialism and fascism, then making video adverts for Duginist books in front of framed pictures of Chavez and Putin. Or Russian militants wearing patches made of both the Soviet flag and the old Russian imperial flag. You even see the sorts of people who support them back in Russia doing crazy shit like carrying around big religious portraits of Stalin, halo and all.

It's mind-breaking.
 
Yatsenyuk talking about the situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkVIZj0brg

Supposedly the translation
It's an undisguised Russian aggression out there now. Their army.

In Mariupol - their forces. Mariupol is Russian. In Novoazovsk - Russian forces. Army. Regular Russian army. These are not terrorists, not people of Donetsk, not mercenaries. Regular Russian army. Pskov, Rostov divisions.

All those sanctions, they are useless. They did not help...

We can cope with Russian terrorists, but with the Russian army... that has 1,100,000 troops. Troops that went through Abkhazia, Ossetia, Chechnya. They have equipment that we don't. We don't even know what equipment they have, but we can see that they are shooting at us with great precision. Their artillery, their rockets are steps ahead of ours.
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EricTheCleric said:
Bw4YA26CQAAEvch.jpg
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If true then that was pretty fast for a major city that it seemed Ukraine was putting a lot into building up the defenses of.

Considering the citizens of that city have repeatedly expressed that they are and want to continue to be part of Ukraine, what's the supposed reasoning of the dummy republics for forcing themselves on the city? Not that it matters, given how clear Russia's control and involvement are.

I just wish Putin would stop pussyfooting around. Taking control of a country's cities and people by force while endlessly denying you're doing anything at all is infuriating.
 
It certainly seems like an overly-optimistic report. The citizens of Mauripol seemed very keen to not let Russia take their city. Perhaps they've broken the Ukranian units defending Mauripol, but certainly civil resistance has not been squashed in this time frame.

I also don't think the "republics" are too concerned with the pretenses. I'd imagine the pretenses are mainly things for the Russians to tell their own people and the EU.
 
Probably old news, but I heard on BBC World Services on the radio at work around 2300 (local time now is 0039) from a reporter in Mariupol that the last Ukrainian checkpoint west of it was gunned down.
 
Mariupol hasn't fallen. I don't even think it's come under ground attack yet. There was, however, a shitload of artillery shelling the last few hours.
 
CHEEZMO™;128760083 said:
Mariupol hasn't fallen. I don't even think it's come under ground attack yet. There was, however, a shitload of artillery shelling the last few hours.
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It might considering how close they are :/
Nights must be horrible there.
 
Zips said:
If true then that was pretty fast for a major city that it seemed Ukraine was putting a lot into building up the defenses of.

Considering the citizens of that city have repeatedly expressed that they are and want to continue to be part of Ukraine, what's the supposed reasoning of the dummy republics for forcing themselves on the city? Not that it matters, given how clear Russia's control and involvement are.

I just wish Putin would stop pussyfooting around. Taking control of a country's cities and people by force while endlessly denying you're doing anything at all is infuriating.
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this was more them telling that the operation had started,
 
I was listening to NPR a few days ago during the build up to the defense of Mariupol. Apparently, they Ukrainian forces, including the volunteer citizenry have divided themselves into those that will flee and those that will stay behind to fight to the death in case the shit really hits the fan. Most of the populace wants to be part of Ukraine.

BTW, can someone tell me the motivation of the pro-Russian forces? Are they even a sizeable part of the population? Those that want to stay with the Ukraine have a clear motivation and goal: they do not want to be part of Russia, want closer EU integration and the West, democracy and economic growth. Russia cannot offer any of that, obviously, so what do the rebels get out of this? Russia only guarantees ruin, especially with all these sanctions in place.
 
CHEEZMO™;128760083 said:
Mariupol hasn't fallen. I don't even think it's come under ground attack yet. There was, however, a shitload of artillery shelling the last few hours.
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It's stopped for the past few hours. Looks like a checkpoint was hit. Probably someone pissed or someone thinking the other side was firing. This kind of stuff does happen during ceasefires. Someone does something stupid, it takes a while for commanders to hear about it and then they have to order it to stop.
 
titiklabingapat said:
BTW, can someone tell me the motivation of the pro-Russian forces? Are they even a sizeable part of the population? Those that want to stay with the Ukraine have a clear motivation and goal, they do not want to be part of Russia, want closer EU integration, democracy and economic growth. Russia cannot offer any of that, obviously, so what do the rebels get out of this?
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The bulk of them seem to be neo-Nazis, Fascists, Stalinists, ultranationalists and Russian empire fetishists along with some religious fundamentalists.

Look up some of these to get an idea

Russian National Unity
Terek Wolf Sotnia
Alexandr Dugin
Igor Girkin
Black Hundreds
Vladimir Zhirinovsky
edit: forgot Russian Jihad

Of course these direct Russian proxies ended up on the ropes, forcing Putin to step things up.
 
titiklabingapat said:
I was listening to NPR a few days ago during the build up to the defense of Mariupol. Apparently, they Ukrainian forces, including the volunteer citizenry have divided themselves into those that will flee and those that will stay behind to fight to the death in case the shit really hits the fan. Most of the populace wants to be part of Ukraine.

BTW, can someone tell me the motivation of the pro-Russian forces? Are they even a sizeable part of the population? Those that want to stay with the Ukraine have a clear motivation and goal: they do not want to be part of Russia, want closer EU integration and the West, democracy and economic growth. Russia cannot offer any of that, obviously, so what do the rebels get out of this? Russia only guarantees ruin, especially with all these sanctions in place.
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Well right now the motivation for a lot of the 'pro-Russian forces' is that they are part of the Russian army.
 
U.S. needs to impose strictest sanctions. They'll be limited by the relative lack of trade with Russia compared to other nations, so threaten to suspend MFN status with any nation that also doesn't match the U.S.' sanctions. Make lifting of the sanctions dependent on rollback to pre-Crimea Ukraine and Putin stepping down.
 
BigWeather said:
U.S. needs to impose strictest sanctions. They'll be limited by the relative lack of trade with Russia compared to other nations, so threaten to suspend MFN status with any nation that also doesn't match the U.S.' sanctions. Make lifting of the sanctions dependent on rollback to pre-Crimea Ukraine and Putin stepping down.
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that will never happen
 
DeadlyParasite said:
Ridiculous how the world stands by and watches. The whole of Ukraine will be gone before any kind damaging sanctions/actions take place.
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It boils down to "Ukraine ain't worth it." Russia isn't Iraq invading Kuwait, unfortunately. I wish there weren't caveats to defense of a helpless nation but there are.
 
Tacitus_ said:
Nah, he is doing provocative shit that makes NATO lok bad, but isn't bad enough to go to war over.
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That's what I'm saying. But I think he's testing the water for going farther and messing with NATO
Dali said:
It boils down to "Ukraine ain't worth it." Russia isn't Iraq invading Kuwait, unfortunately. I wish there weren't caveats to defense of a helpless nation but there are.
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This is what it boils down to and the more Putin does the closer the Munich analogies get.
CHEEZMO™;128764463 said:
The bulk of them seem to be neo-Nazis, Fascists, Stalinists, ultranationalists and Russian empire fetishists along with some religious fundamentalists.

Look up some of these to get an idea

Russian National Unity
Terek Wolf Sotnia
Alexandr Dugin
Igor Girkin
Black Hundreds
Vladimir Zhirinovsky
edit: forgot Russian Jihad

Of course these direct Russian proxies ended up on the ropes, forcing Putin to step things up.
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I don't know why people are confused by neo Nazis anywhere.

Neo Nazis aren't following specific Nazi doctrine about ayrans domination most of the time but latch on to the racial purity, heightened nationalism, sense of history and militarism. That can happen in any population.

Neonazism isn't just hatred of Jews and Slavic people. Its not even Nazism its militant fascism. We just always link it to the Nazis because its the example of it put in to practice in our cultural guidebook. In Asia you get neo imperialist based of Japanese fascism.
 
Since the conflict has died down somewhat, it appears Western media outlets are more willing to discuss the far right elements in the Ukrainian government.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329 >> A BBC report on the mainly neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which has been trained and armed by the Ukrainian government and is attracting neo-Nazi activists from throughout Europe.
 
Yamauchi said:
Since the conflict has died down somewhat, it appears Western media outlets are more willing to discuss the far right elements in the Ukrainian government.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329 >> A BBC report on the mainly neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which has been trained and armed by the Ukrainian government and is attracting neo-Nazi activists from throughout Europe.
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that is an almost two months old article
what is your angle?

(I know what it is...)
 
Here's a more recent Foreign Policy article on Kiev's neo-Nazi death squads: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...r_with_ukraine_s_fascist_defenders_of_freedom

And for those interested in how western Ukraine's extreme nationalism--including open glorification of Nazi--has been nurtured and promoted, see The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right (PDF document), written by Per Anders Rudling (Swedish historian) before the crisis (and thus not based on hindsight or "Russian propaganda"). It's a chapter from the academic work Analysing Fascist Discourse: European Fascism in Talk and Text.
 
I'm seeing a lot more members of Truther GAF in this thread now. I'm not sure if I could use it as news source anymore.
 
empty vessel said:
Here's a more recent Foreign Policy article on Kiev's neo-Nazi death squads: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...r_with_ukraine_s_fascist_defenders_of_freedom

And for those interested in how western Ukraine's extreme nationalism--including open glorification of Nazi--has been nurtured and promoted, see The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right (PDF document), written by Per Anders Rudling (Swedish historian) before the crisis (and thus not based on hindsight or "Russian propaganda"). It's a chapter from the academic work Analysing Fascist Discourse: European Fascism in Talk and Text.
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Yessssss, he's back. We needed someone with your perspective after the ISIS defense force was banned.
 
empty vessel said:
Here's a more recent Foreign Policy article on Kiev's neo-Nazi death squads: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...r_with_ukraine_s_fascist_defenders_of_freedom

And for those interested in how western Ukraine's extreme nationalism--including open glorification of Nazi--has been nurtured and promoted, see The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right (PDF document), written by Per Anders Rudling (Swedish historian) before the crisis (and thus not based on hindsight or "Russian propaganda"). It's a chapter from the academic work Analysing Fascist Discourse: European Fascism in Talk and Text.
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No-one has denied that there are neo-nazis and far-right extremists in Ukraine. No-one has defended Right Sector or the Azov Battalion or claimed that they are some kind of heroes. Do you know what Right Sector got in the presidential election? 0,14 %. There are actual neo-nazi parties, swastikas and all, in other countries that get more votes. The rise of the far right in Ukraine is extremely concerning but it's just the same as the rise of the far right in the rest of Europe. Russia included. That Russia would use this as a propaganda tool is especially distasteful in light of how they support other far right parties in Europe because they're typically against the EU.

This idea of the Kiev government being neo-nazis hell bent on exterminating the ethnic Russians in Ukraine is a complete fabrication. It's a smokescreen to allow Russia to somehow take a moral high-ground in a conflict that they have basically instigated since day 1.

EDIT: Damn, forgot this was the news thread. I'll let this post stand but I want debate this any further here.
 
empty vessel said:
Here's a more recent Foreign Policy article on Kiev's neo-Nazi death squads: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...r_with_ukraine_s_fascist_defenders_of_freedom

And for those interested in how western Ukraine's extreme nationalism--including open glorification of Nazi--has been nurtured and promoted, see The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right (PDF document), written by Per Anders Rudling (Swedish historian) before the crisis (and thus not based on hindsight or "Russian propaganda"). It's a chapter from the academic work Analysing Fascist Discourse: European Fascism in Talk and Text.
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That article doesn't mention any death squads. Neo-nazis sure, but it seems like you are adding your own narrative to the article you linked. Not really surprising given your post history in this thread.

And you say that this nazi glorification is sweeping the Ukraine, when the article says the Azov Battalion has roughly 500 men. With a population of 45 million in Ukraine you would think they could muster up more than 500 men if it's truly sweeping the nation.
 
Veritigo_X said:
That article doesn't mention any death squads. Neo-nazis sure, but it seems like you are adding your own narrative to the article you linked. Not really surprising given your post history in this thread.

And you say that this nazi glorification is sweeping the Ukraine, when the article says the Azov Battalion has roughly 500 men. With a population of 45 million in Ukraine you would think they could muster up more than 500 men if it's truly sweeping the nation.
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It's almost as if he has a pre determined narrative.
 
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