Nvidia GTX 980/970 3DMark Scores Leaked- from Videocardz.com

Fun post from Guru3d thanks LuckyNumber8:
LuckyNumber8 said:
Almost no performance increse compared to 780ti :wanker:. I'm disappointed

And just for comparison, how it looked some years ago :)

TNT2 Ultra VS Geforce 1 DDR (12 vs 28 fps)
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2000/01/07/leadtek_winfast_geforce_256_ddr_review/q3_dm1_16_12_32.gif

Geforce 1 DDR vs Geforce 2 Ultra (25 vs 55 fps, more than 100%)
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2000/08/14/nvidia_strikes_back_/nv15_sil_2_9600_image001.gif

Geforce 3ti500 vs Geforce 4ti4600 (85 vs 130 fps). There was even faster verison (GF4 4800), and ATI released in that time radeon 9700 pro, it scored 177 fps in this benchmark, so still, year after geforce 3 we had 100% performance increse)
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2002/12/18/vga_charts_ii/image160.gif

Gf 4ti4800 vs GF 5900 (55 vs 113 fps, and Nv had even better card, 5950)
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/05/12/nvidia_geforcefx_5900_ultra/image005.gif
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/01/27/nvidia_geforcefx/image005.gif

GF 5950 vs 6800 Ultra - (31 vs 55 fps in shader model 1 game, and 18 vs 88 fps!!!! in shader model 2)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/graphics_cards_1H-1004_charts/scell_1600_pure.gif
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2004/07/05/farcry_patch_v1/image003.gif

6800Ultra vs 7900GTX (80 vs 156 fps w ut2003, a w HL2 31 vs 53 fps)
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/PointOfView/Geforce7900GTX/images/ut2k4high.jpg
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/PointOfView/Geforce7900GTX/images/hl2high.jpg

7900GTX vs 8800Ultra (31 vs 71 fps)
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/07/30/leadteks_performance_leviathan/image005.png

980GTX was a big let down (almost the same as 8800)

8800GTX vs 280GTX (26 vs 53 fps Half life 2 2560x1600 8xMSAA)
http://www.overclock.net/t/381806/gtx-280-vs-gtx-260-vs-8800-gtx-review

280 vs 480GTX (56 vs 100 fps)
http://www.geeks3d.com/public/jegx/201003/gtx480_d3d_farcry2.jpg

And since 580GTX performance increse isnt that spectacular anymore. I thought 980GTX will bring massive performance increase compared to 780GTX, but this is big let down for me (even 680 vs 780 performance gap was better).
Click to expand...

Then just look at the launch prices of those cards. Almost faint inducing in comparison to what happened with the 600 and 700 series.
 
Kadey said:
Will this be a nice upgrade for my 7950? I plan on building a new PC before the end of the year.
Click to expand...

I am curious about this as well. I got a MSI Twin Frozr HD7950 3GB card. I don't use SLI or Crossfire so if I were to upgrade my logical choice is a single GPU solution that is an overall upgrade.
 
Inferno313 said:
They're having a huge 24 hour "GAME24" live-stream on Sept 18th, so that's been floating around as the announcement date as well.
Click to expand...

It's probably not going to be about new graphic cards... Those (GTX 980/970) will arrive more quickly. There's gonna be game-developers and some PR-mumbo-jumbo going on, but it's probably not going to be too hardware-intensive. It's gonna be games and stuff - maybe features and engine-related things, too.

Mufausa The 3rd said:
Should I get a 980 if I own a 570 superclocked?
Click to expand...

About any other modern GPU will dish out more Fps than that old thing ;-) So yeah - if you have a decent CPU.

OmegaDL50 said:
I am curious about this as well. I got a MSI Twin Frozr HD7950 3GB card. I don't use SLI or Crossfire so if I were to upgrade my logical choice is a single GPU solution that is an overall upgrade.
Click to expand...

Performance-wise it would be, there's not much doubt about that. However, it would as well be a price-upgrade just to stay in the same league. I suggest, you wait for the follow-ups, as well as AMDs answer - then again, I can completely understand why you wouldn't - sometimes you just need more power.

Regards,
blaidd
 
We also don't know when GPUs will implement full DX12 hardware feature set, as Microsoft hasn't finalized the spec. We don't even know if Big Maxwell (GM200 / 210) would have been designed with the full DX12 feature set or not.

This has nothing to do with the fact that all DX11 cards from Nvidia, from Fermi on, will be compatible with DX12. It's not unlike how DX10 cards could run DX11.

On top of that we're stuck at 28nm for the moment and we don't know for sure if 20nm or 16nm FinFET will be the next process for GPUs. It sounds like Nvidia is going to 20nm but FinFET and FinFET+ are around the corner.

All of these things will have long since been settled by the time Pascal comes out (probably 2017). By then, consumer Oculus Rift should be out (2016?) as I don't think they'll make 2015.

Pascal should be the next major increase in performance with 3D stacked RAM and NVLink, as well as naturally the first generation of Nvidia GPUs to have been completed after the DX12 spec is finalized. Ever since Nv announced Pascal would come after Maxwell, it would seem to me that the Volta architecture (which also has 3D stacked RAM and supposedly 1 TB/sec BW) will be Nvidia's 2nd-gen architecture with stacking RAM on GPUs and will come around the end of the decade.

My point is, things will only happen sooner and for less money if there's stronger competition from AMD.
 
family_guy said:
So is 1080p at 30fps on high unreasonable on a 660 for Witcher 3?
Click to expand...

It might be. The demo on Gamescom was even lagging with a (probably) pretty beastly rig - with no hardware-AA. This is going to be a very demanding game. However, with some decent tuning you might get a pretty stable framerate on 1080p without sacrificing too much detail.

AmyS said:
We also don't know when GPUs will implement full DX12 hardware feature set, as Microsoft hasn't finalized the spec. We don't even know if Big Maxwell (GM200 / 210) would have been designed with the full DX12 feature set or not.
Click to expand...

This. But the same also goes for AMDs GCN 1.2 (R9 285). They're all just "DX-12-Ready" (That's like "HD-ready". Remember that? . It was nothing of the kind).
 
Grief.exe said:
Completely subjective.

This thread has made it increasingly obvious that many of us are still powering through games on 560 ti's.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's kind of shocking to me. Thanks to GAF I built my first PC over 2 years ago, and 560Ti was the recommendation so I went with it. Had figured I'd have needed to upgrade by now, but not really.
 
BTW if the rumours are true, it means that a 980 (Maxwell) i going to deliver 40% more perfomance than the 285 (Tonga) while consuming less power. NVIDIA's tech seems way ahead for AMD to catch up, they'll try to compete in price, but if NVIDIA starts to play the same game (which they wont) AMD could be wiped out of the market.
 
Comparisons between the 285 and 980 are iffy at best. Wait until GM200 releases as a consumer card for a more apt comparison in terms of flagship gards. The 980 is the second-rung chip, which would be like the GT 240, or 560 Ti.
 
Given I'm usually a cynic on all things Nvidia this actually exceeds my expectations of where the 980 would land. Sure the 780ti listed most likely is a lower end one @ stock but given that these cards will prob be approx $500 @ launch these seem like a pretty decent deal. I will still wait for a new TITAN model or the ti variant to actually upgrade but given the cancellation of the 6GB ti I was expecting these to actually come in below the 780ti initially.
 
AngryChinchilla said:
I know you are all sad that this card won't be faster, but I'll be coming from an old 5970 so I am super excited.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone should be sad. It's the state of graphics cards today. Process shrinks just can't happen as fast as they used to. The business needs to remain profitable by releasing the cards over two "series" rather than all at once. It is what it is.

Looks to be a great value compared to what is out today.
 
elite09 said:
BTW if the rumours are true, it means that a 980 (Maxwell) i going to deliver 40% more perfomance than the 285 (Tonga) while consuming less power. NVIDIA's tech seems way ahead for AMD to catch up, they'll try to compete in price, but if NVIDIA starts to play the same game (which they wont) AMD could be wiped out of the market.
Click to expand...

Which is really weird as AMD hardware (unlike software) in gpus was top quality until this generation.

Kepler might have caught them by suprise but that was more than 2 years ago and AMD is still standing in place where they started on day of 7970 release.
 
Dictator93 said:
Fun post from Guru3d thanks LuckyNumber8:


Then just look at the launch prices of those cards. Almost faint inducing in comparison to what happened with the 600 and 700 series.
Click to expand...
untitled-1foshn.gif

never forget

Edit: ooooooooooooooh
I see now why they skipped the 800 name and went straight to 900 for the 980
they wanted to make it a tribute to the 9800gtx (both unrivalled in how dissapointing they are)
:p

mkenyon said:
Comparisons between the 285 and 980 are iffy at best. Wait until GM200 releases as a consumer card for a more apt comparison in terms of flagship gards. The 980 is the second-rung chip, which would be like the GT 240, or 560 Ti.
Click to expand...

what?
the tonga r9 285 is a lower end card (crippled hd7950 with higher clockspeed specs wise)
and the GT240 was a low end non gaming card (hence the GT name instead of gtx, gtx 260 was midrange) while the 560ti was a midrange one too

McHuj said:
It's not an apples to apples comparison as this is a new architecture and Maxwell, based on the 750 Ti, is much more bandwidth efficient compared to Kepler.
Click to expand...

I will bet my tag that maxwell GM200 will release with a 384bit bus or better
 
Grief.exe said:
Completely subjective.

This thread has made it increasingly obvious that many of us are still powering through games on 560 ti's.
Click to expand...

I'm still rocking the 560ti 448 and I'm in no hurry to upgrade considering I've never cared for max settings at 60fps. I suppose I'm in the minority in the regard but I typically use my cards until they die anyway. I got the 560ti 448 after my 250 died and before the 250 I had a 6600 or something.

Surely I would see massive gains with the 900 series, or even the 700 series, but my 560ti 448 is still kicking.

What's bothering me is the 870m I have in my laptop is on par with my 560ti 448 and if those leaked charts are true, I'll be having some buyers remorse soon.
 
Brainfart, thinking of GTX 285. Long day. Long weekend.

GTX260 was kind of like the 570 or 780. Slightly weaker version of the big daddy chip, IIRC.
 
elite09 said:
BTW if the rumours are true, it means that a 980 (Maxwell) i going to deliver 40% more perfomance than the 285 (Tonga) while consuming less power. NVIDIA's tech seems way ahead for AMD to catch up, they'll try to compete in price, but if NVIDIA starts to play the same game (which they wont) AMD could be wiped out of the market.
Click to expand...

It's doubtful AMD will be so easily wiped out of the market. It's not as cut and dry as that. You need to consider that most 3rd party AAA releases are usually more often then not developed on consoles first then ported to PC afterwards, and the GPU architecture in the PS4 and XB1 are both based on AMD tech. So when it comes to optimizations and whatnot, AMD GPUs might be able to take advantage of that.

There is also the factor that whatever fee AMD gets for supplying Sony and Microsoft the chips in the consoles.

Even if we want to consider the upper echelon PC GPUs from Nvidia which can brute force any upcoming console to PC port at max settings in their sleep without even the slightest strain to the cards, it still wouldn't make AMD irrelevant.

Factoring the cryptocurrency boom that drove up some of AMD's card prices earlier this year, some of AMD's GPU still manage to maintain the best price to performance ratio on the market.

As long as Nvidia continues to set their cards at a price premium, AMD can likely still provide competitive pricing that will still make their offerings appealing for those wanting to game on their PC without breaking too much bank.
 
OmegaDL50 said:
It's doubtful AMD will be so easily wiped out of the market. It's not as cut and dry as that. You need to consider that most 3rd party AAA releases are usually more often then not developed on consoles first then ported to PC afterwards, and the GPU architecture in the PS4 and XB1 are both based on AMD tech. So when it comes to optimizations and whatnot, AMD GPUs might be able to take advantage of that.
Click to expand...

Did I take a wrong turn and end up in some console vs pc thread, you believe in your optimisation fairytales, but in the real world the 980 in name 960 in specs is outperforming the 290x by 20 percent while using less than half the power.

Which reminds me,does anyone know what amd actually have coming next?
This tonka toy 285 can't be it...
I haven't heard anything about their next architecture
 
mkenyon said:
Just got word back from my NVIDIA rep. They said since you asked, it's permanently delayed.
Click to expand...

>:3

OmegaDL50 said:
There is also the factor that whatever fee AMD gets for supplying Sony and Microsoft the chips in the consoles.
Click to expand...

Not as much as you might think. IIRC it's a pretty slim margin and AMD posted a net loss of 20 million in Q1 and 36 million in Q2 of this year. They can't survive with just console money, they need to be profitable in other areas. Particularly given that yearly PC hardware releases are what pushes technological innovation that the next round of consoles will take advantage of.
 
s_mirage said:
I know some people find this hard to understand, but manufacturers aren't in the business of giving customers what they feel they deserve, they're in the business of making the most money possible. Since AMD had no product which would drive them to do it, why the hell would Nvidia have pushed a massive, expensive, low yield chip on their mainstream high end cards when they had a smaller, more profitable chip to use instead? It would have made no business sense to do so, and no sane company in the world would have done it.
Click to expand...

I was mainly addressing the idea that these weaker "upgrades" are weak solely due to physics and foundry issues.

I understand completely why Nvidia did what they did. But if Nvidia releases a 28nm 980 Ti and Titan Ultra Black Z Alpha II early next year, it's obviously not a physics/yield issue.
 
SneakyStephan said:
Did I take a wrong turn and end up in some console vs pc thread, you believe in your optimisation fairytales, but in the real world the 980 in name 960 in specs is outperforming the 290x by 20 percent while using less than half the power.

Which reminds me,does anyone know what amd actually have coming next?
This tonka toy 285 can't be it...
I haven't heard anything about their next architecture
Click to expand...

If you want frame the argument with the strawman that I'm making this into a Console Vs. PC nonsense. That's your call. I just don't foresee AMD bailing out of the market anytime soon, unless they do something really stupid (which isn't impossible, just very strange)

But just in case you were only quoted what you wanted just to ignore the rest. I DID say Even if we want to consider the upper echelon PC GPUs from Nvidia which can brute force any upcoming console to PC port at max settings in their sleep without even the slightest strain to the cards.

As for Tonga. The only current example thus far is the R9 285, which supplants the R9 280 which was more or less a HD7950 refresh, which by performance metrics has slight performance gains over the 760 at a similar price range. Better off getting a 770 GTX.

Ultimately, I'd rather just play the waiting game and see if Nvidia comes out with a 960 Ti to fit into the high-range but not enthusiast range at a slightly lower price point then the 980 but still have the benefit of DX12 and newer architecture advantages.
 
I'll be holding on to my 780M laptop until the die shrink. It's a great time to jump in for people looking for a new laptop though.
 
OmegaDL50 said:
If you want frame the argument with the strawman that I'm making this into a Console Vs. PC nonsense. That's your call. I just don't foresee AMD bailing out of the market anytime soon, unless they do something really stupid (which isn't impossible, just very strange)

But just in case you were only quoted what you wanted just to ignore the rest. I DID say Even if we want to consider the upper echelon PC GPUs from Nvidia which can brute force any upcoming console to PC port at max settings in their sleep without even the slightest strain to the cards.

As for Tonga. The only current example thus far is the R9 285, which supplants the R9 280 which was more or less a HD7950 refresh, which by performance metrics has slight performance gains over the 760 at a similar price range. Better off getting a 770 GTX.

Ultimately, I'd rather just play the waiting game and see if Nvidia comes out with a 960 Ti to fit into the high-range but not enthusiast range at a slightly lower price point then the 980 but still have the benefit of DX12 and newer architecture advantages.
Click to expand...

No I'm just commenting on you acting like console games being designed for amd hardware with multiplatform games will somehow make up for amd getting really far behind performance wise (once gm200 is out) and being far behind performance/watt wise.

Amd cards won't be irrelevant if they don't have a proper successor to catch up to maxwell no, it'll be like the cpu market where they can get the crumbs at the low end (similarly with underpowered yet power hungry hardware) while the consumer gets fucked up the ass due to there being no competition at the midrange or high end anymore for nvidia.
The cpu market is an ugly thing right now, I'd hate to see the gpu market fully barrel down that abyss.
This is just a what if scenario that you are proposing (preemptive damage control with that amd gpu optimisation nonsense, hence why I replied), I don't know what amd have coming next. (but they better have something good up their sleeves for OUR sake.)

As for the midrange 960 ti, that is what the 980 already is... it's the successor to the 560 ti
Anything nvidia would call 960 ti right now would probably be some low end 196 bit bus abomination like the 2GB 660 ti was and would be no faster than a gtx680.


Anyhow that's enough down to earth realistic negativity from me for today, here is to hoping nvidia sell the 980 for 400 or less and that the 970 can become the next 560ti that we all want.
(so you're saying there's a chance.gif:p)
 
Don't we have two dates here - September 9th, and the announced event on the 18th?

I thought the paper launch (official announcement) was the 9th,and the actual availability of the new cards will be on the 18th.
 
michaelius said:
Which is really weird as AMD hardware (unlike software) in gpus was top quality until this generation.

Kepler might have caught them by suprise but that was more than 2 years ago and AMD is still standing in place where they started on day of 7970 release.
Click to expand...

They were always competitive, but have their fair share of mis-steps--HD 3xxx series was a mess, and the 4xxx and 5xxx series had no competition for Nvidia at the high end with the exception of dual-GPU cards. You have to remember going from GTX 500 and HD6000 to their predecessors was a drop from 40nm to 28nm, and new architectures. Nvidia expected AMD to remain very competitive but the HD7970 was on par for their mid-level GPU's. What incentive do they have to sell their mid-levels at $250 when they are competitive with their only real opponents $600 card? (The HD7970 was $550-650 at launch)
 
I would actually make it so that my EVGA step up program will still be valid. The thing is though, is it worth it to step up to a vanilla 980 w/ reference cooling from my EVGA GTX 780 Ti Classified?
 
Dictator93 said:
Fun post from Guru3d thanks LuckyNumber8:

Then just look at the launch prices of those cards. Almost faint inducing in comparison to what happened with the 600 and 700 series.
Click to expand...
What's the point of this though? Were you guys actually expecting Moore's Law to be eternal? This is like shouting at the clouds.

These progresses listed were accompanied with a pretty significant die shrink and clockspeed increases because they weren't hitting electrical and thermal limitations that chipmakers are currently facing now on the 22/28nm generation. You knew the writing was on the wall Intel Isreal told HQ that physics is getting tired of their shit :D haha
 
Renekton said:
What's the point of this though? Were you guys actually expecting Moore's Law to be eternal? This is like shouting at the clouds.

These progresses listed were accompanied with a pretty significant die shrink and clockspeed increases because they weren't hitting electrical and thermal limitations that chipmakers are currently facing now on the 22/28nm generation. You knew the writing was on the wall Intel Isreal told HQ that physics is getting tired of their shit :D haha
Click to expand...

The writing isn't here yet... nvidia have a gm200 coming, they'll just stuff a (as that list points out) pityful 10 percent performance increase down our throats for 500 dollars first before they release it...

Why are you purposely ignoring the obvious large gains they have made at 28nm with maxwell? Your moore's law has hit a brick wall excuse holds no water
And hey according to nvidia themselves it's not going to be a problem in the next several years either.
Their (as usual hilarious) nvidia graph projects another 80 percent performance increase within 2 years with pascal.

Again, nvidia went down this same path with the move from 40 to 28nm , what's your excuse for that?
 
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