Speaking as an Irish person I find it somewhat odd that almost all of the discussion in the last 5 or so pages of this thread is centred around economic/geopolitical ramifications of an independence vote. I understand that the nationalist argument is a major player among the general public but it seems fairly absent on GAF. Do Scottish members here feel that the desire for independence on the basis of shared cultural identity and history does not have its own merits? Certainly from my perspective as someone who sees the continued negative effects of historical events on Ireland and Irish culture (or lack of it) even now it would make sense to vote yes purely for reasons of reclaiming self determination under a Scottish identity. What do Scots here think of this?
I'm not Scottish (Welsh, and ex-Plaid Cymru), but I think this is an important point.
The campaigns, both of them, have majored on the immediate or at least the short-term or at least the
claimed immediate and short-term risks and benefits of independence to the exclusion of the basic, sensible, understandable and worthy cause of self-determination, which I'd support entirely were I a Scot.
The big trouble with the "Yes" campaign is that it is predicated on a SNP-led socialist Utopia, a ridiculously tight timescale for negotiations to independence and an assumption that no concessions would have to be made in negotiation, none of which might be true in the long term. Nobody has any idea what the political landscape of an independent Scotland will look like in 50 or 100 years time - it will develop its own brands of fiscal conservatism, corporatism, liberal democracy and state socialism, it might struggle for years to find a coherent vision, but if the Scots want self-determination then this is the sort of thing they will have to deal with. Nobody knows what the outcome of negotiations will be, but one thing's for sure, there will have to be concessions made. Nobody knows how much political damage these concessions will do in Scotland or in the rest of the UK. And nobody's going to be asked at the end of the negotiations whether they now wish to be independent
on these terms.
That's worrying, unless your sole aim is self-determination and you're willing to take some pain and turmoil to get it - which to be fair is what I would expect of the Scots and admire them for it. But voting yes to a promise of a utopia that won't happen the way it is described seems to me the wrong reason for voting yes.
As to escaping the Tory jackboot, it's as well to remember that it was the SNP who catapulted Mrs Thatcher into power by laying the first no-confidence motion in 1979. Jim Callaghan (I think) described it as "turkeys voting for Christmas" - well, Christmas came early that year, and it seems somewhat strange that the SNP now blames everything on the Tories they put in power.
The "Better Together" campaign is not any better, and it is not all that together either. It has said nothing about the huge influence Scots have had and continue to have in the UK all the way back to the Scottish Enlightenment, the expansion of Universities etc etc etc - it has just banged on interminably about risk and belatedly offered some sketchy few highly constrained "additional powers" for the Scottish government which, if self-determination is the cause, is the wrong answer to the wrong question.
There's been talk of Cameron having to resign if the vote is "Yes", but I see no reason he should. He did the right thing in acceding to a referendum, he did the right thing in constraining the options
if you believe that self-determination is a thing.
In the event of a "Yes" vote I'd rather Salmond made the same gesture and offered a further referendum at the conclusion of negotiations to ask "Should Scotland be an independent country on these terms?".
A further "Yes" vote to that would be conclusive, and sensible, and separation could follow quickly without serious recriminations.
As it stands there will probably be recriminations a-plenty for the next few years on both sides.
