nelsonroyale
Member
Ignorance and willful blindness, the same unfortunately.
Scottish Independence Referendum |OT| 18 September 2014 [Up: NO wins]
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
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Ignorance and willful blindness, the same unfortunately.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Blah,blah,blah..you're nothing but a class warrior espousing the politics of the school playground, grow the fuck up why don't you.
I *am* English. Scottish are foreigners. Good people, but foreign.
MilkyJoe
Member
You really think it makes a difference who is in charge??
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...d-finally-publishes-five-star-hotel-list.html
Don't be so naive
I don't get to have an opinion on this as I'm not Scottish, but as an Irishman, a large part of me hopes Scotland wins her independence (Celtic solidarity and all that!). On the other hand, the vote should reflect what is best for the people of Scotland, so I hope that this is what actually happens.
However the pendulum swings, best of luck to you guys.
However the pendulum swings, best of luck to you guys.
Grow the fuck up? Coming from someone who's "debating" style would require a ladder and a long climb before it even reached the gutter? That's nice.
Nicktendo86
Member
Jesus, £800 on tartan Chinese trousers. They all have their snouts in the trough.
It's nice to dream.
What flag is it that represents all that by the way? Because it sure as fuck isn't a YES banner.
There isn't any shared ideology in your camp, the minute independence was formalised the whole movement goes to shit as 100 small fish make their power play.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
..I'm sure I'll pass you on the way up.
The entire Scottish parliament budget, including all those overseas trips to 5 star hotels, buffets, champagne and tartan trousers for a year is spent on Trident every day. Yes, it does matter.
Yeah, it's not as if the party that has those policies as its platform won a landslide majority in the 2011 election or anything, is it?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Now now Nick, be fair. According to the article, those Chinese trousers were only £250.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Like I said, 'here no evil, see no evil, speak no evil' ends justify the means.
Total utter hypocrite.
Nicktendo86
Member
Haha I got confused in my lolwut state at reading that article and the balls Salmond has shown in trying to resist FOI requests.
The debate in here, while being generally well mannered, does get very heated and I can only imagine what the situation it like up in Scotland. I've said before that I feel this process is good for democracy but I can't help but worry at the state of bitterness and anger we would be left with, no matter what the result turns out to be.
I wouldn't describe 4 seats as a landslide.The only reason they are in power is because of the complete collapse of the LIb dems.
lorebringer
Member
Nationalism as a belief in shared cultural identity and history can be a powerful force for positive change. Irish nationalism secured independence for most of the Republic and ensured at least some form of representation for average people in politics even if it is full of the same bullshit that every representative government has. Or was that also operating at an "ugly base level"?
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
They should have thought of that before embarking on this tribal based, identity driven, separation obsession of theirs.
If they'd bother to look into the history of this Island, they'd see that when we weren't united, we were at each others throats, spilling blood for centuries.
There's only room for one sovereign government on this Island.
lorebringer
Member
Does that apply to the other island too?
anonymous_abc
Member
That's absolutely ridiculous.
That party will splinter and disintegrate if there is a YES vote, the SNP are held together by their common goal and nothing else.
And I thought it wasn't about the SNP anyway? The YES campaign sure as fuck doesn't sing from that song sheet, even going as far as to try and distance themselves from the party.
There is no way Yes can deliver on their promises when the only common bond you people have is you're all saying YES.
Please remember in the last GE your mob only polled 80'000 more voted than the Conservatives. Right of centre politics will be very popular in Scotland when whatever party fills that void isn't saddled with the baggage of being "Tory"
Your little socialist Utopia is a pipe dream.
http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com...yes-why-i-joined-yes-and-why-i-changed-to-no/
Kinky John
Member
It's actually pretty calm up here.
This isn't the middle ages anymore. If that is your position on independence, it is a fairly weak one.
Yup, only had one minor issue in the whole debate-period. Never had more engaging conversations with strangers regarding something lke this before. Everyone has been totally civil.
May you should tell the better together campaign to campaign for our continued membership of the EU since nationalism is so ugly
Wow!
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
I said Island, not Islands, you work it out.
lorebringer
Member
So you're in favour of removing NI from the union then? Cool just wanted to make sure.
I'm sorry, but could you please point out where I have ever said that Saint Salmond, born of everlasting light and peace will carry out the will of Scotland like the angel he is?
The point is that people will now have the right to choose whether to elect the SNP or anyone else. The 800 unelected peers of the House of Lords is an affront to democracy. The FPTP system and the Tory/New Labour twin it sustains is an affront to democracy.
In 2007 I voted for the Green party and, even though they did not win any majorities, myself and the others who voted for them received not one but two representatives. Two representatives who were crucial in helping the SNP form their minority government, and shaping policy both for the government and the opposition.
Maybe if you haven't been exposed to true democracy before and have had your head in the Westminster machine for too long, where you may as well throw away your vote, this might be a bit strange to you but, believe me, it actually happened! Amazing, isn't it?
I really hope Sir Fragula gets his way and democracy comes to England soon.
The parliament is designed to make any majority at all extremely unlikely. The SNP got over 45.4% of the constituency vote and over 44% of the list vote, in a UK general election either number would get you an historic landslide, and given how Holyrood elections are designed then that's basically what happened.
For instance Labour's 1997 landslide (179 majority) win was with 43.2% of the vote.
By any measure the SNP's win was huge. Now that doesn't mean all their voters wanted independence or that the travails of the Lib Dems and the continued implosion of Scottish Labour didn't play a huge factor it obviously did, but you can't just say they just got a majority of 4 so it's hardly a huge win. In the circumstances of the parliament it was basically an unthinkably good result.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Is it hell!
Nicktendo86
Member
Good to hear.
Apologies if this has already been posted:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...case-yes-vote-sparks-run-on-atms-9734658.html
Could someone please explain this to me, it sounds like English banknotes being sent up north but I thought they were not legal tender up in Scotland?
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Stop reaching, I never said any such thing...Island as in a UK context.
If I'd put 'Islands' you would have been jumping up and down in a fit of pique, thinking I meant the Republic as well.
Thanks for your definition of Unionism - The belief that two similar countries that share an island are better off under one government. Unless they're both called Ireland.
You have that the wrong way round. English bank notes are perfectly fine here and are accepted everywhere. It's England that for some reason has a problem with Scottish notes.
I feel sorry for the young people of Scotland who want to pursue a Higher Education. If Scotland leaves the UK they would then be subject to international fees to any UK university and thus pricing many of them out.
Secondly, if Scotland was to join the EU after an independence vote, under the EU non-discrimination laws, those in the UK would be able to go to Scottish universities free of charge, for the first time ever, which will make them attractive to UK residents and therefore result in less places for Scottish residents. This also in turn results in a loss of ~£150m/year of revenue for Scottish universities and hence they will be forced to actually start charging students. However the YES campaign state this won't happen because they say so, which isn't exactly reassuring.
Additionally, Scottish universities get a disproportionate amount from the UK research fund that will be lost with an independence vote.
I am a firm believer that education is key to leading to opportunities to better yourself. I would be very interested in hearing a YES POI on this topic as they keep going on about a better Scotland but how will that happen if the youth of Scotland are hindered?
I don't have a vote in this poll but that doesn't mean I don't care about my Scottish neighbours and if I could vote it would be 100% be a NO.
Secondly, if Scotland was to join the EU after an independence vote, under the EU non-discrimination laws, those in the UK would be able to go to Scottish universities free of charge, for the first time ever, which will make them attractive to UK residents and therefore result in less places for Scottish residents. This also in turn results in a loss of ~£150m/year of revenue for Scottish universities and hence they will be forced to actually start charging students. However the YES campaign state this won't happen because they say so, which isn't exactly reassuring.
Additionally, Scottish universities get a disproportionate amount from the UK research fund that will be lost with an independence vote.
I am a firm believer that education is key to leading to opportunities to better yourself. I would be very interested in hearing a YES POI on this topic as they keep going on about a better Scotland but how will that happen if the youth of Scotland are hindered?
I don't have a vote in this poll but that doesn't mean I don't care about my Scottish neighbours and if I could vote it would be 100% be a NO.
Nicktendo86
Member
Thank you, I thought it was the other way round completely. Although I have had Scottish notes at work and banked them no problem.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
He thinks because some obscure corner shop in a small English town or bolshi taxi driver won't accept a Scottish bank note then it's part of some grand conspiracy to keep Scotland down.
It's win win for them:
We stay and they scrap it blaming Westminster
We leave they scrap it blaming English and European students making it unsustainable.
I live near the border, I frequent the lake district all the time, I was in the forces: I've never had Scottish money refused.
We stay and they scrap it blaming Westminster
We leave they scrap it blaming English and European students making it unsustainable.
I live near the border, I frequent the lake district all the time, I was in the forces: I've never had Scottish money refused.
Yeah I don't think it extends beyond sometimes giving it a funny look as if to say 'what is this?'. Never had an issue having them accepted.
Vivalaraza
Member
BoE bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland either.
Legal tender is just a very out-dated concept.
QuicheFontaine
Member
The Scottish socialist utopia confuses me as well. Firstly I don't think the Scots are that socialst in mindset. Maybe slightly more than the rest of the UK, sure, maybe even quantifiably more, but still not that left wing. Secondly, if this is going to be funded by higher taxes on the rich, wouldn't they just move to England (I'm sure some of you will chime in with "Good riddance"!)? I believe a similar thing happened in France recently - all the rich people moved to Belgium.
ye want to try and get people to take Northern Irish Sterling in England.
I don't have to much of an opinion on this being someone from the Republic of Ireland living in Northern Ireland but it seems funny to me a lot of the arguments used by supporters of the no and better together campaign that of becoming a smaller country leaving a successful union are the exact arguments they themselves are ignoring as they campaign for the UK leaving the European Union.
I don't have to much of an opinion on this being someone from the Republic of Ireland living in Northern Ireland but it seems funny to me a lot of the arguments used by supporters of the no and better together campaign that of becoming a smaller country leaving a successful union are the exact arguments they themselves are ignoring as they campaign for the UK leaving the European Union.
Nicktendo86
Member
Yeah was just reading up on it after asking earlier, makes sense in an age of electronic payments and even cheques the concept of legal tender is completely outdated. Yet other weird legal quirk that makes the UK so unique!
Scottish bank notes aren't actually legal tender even in Scotland (although the term legal tender has absolutely no day to day effect) but they are legal forms of currency, they're promissory notes backed by Scottish banks holding an equivalent amount of BOE notes: for simplicity and to make everyones life easier these are typically Giants (£1 million pound note) and Titans (£100 million pound note).
I don't know if it's changed but they actually have to hold the note, it's not just a paper or digital transaction.
QuicheFontaine
Member
It'll be funded by more taxation of the working man, and we'll accept it with a smile (apparently)
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics...ppy-to-pay-extra-tax-after-yes-vote-1-3419105
NI money looks and feels like monopoly money
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics...ppy-to-pay-extra-tax-after-yes-vote-1-3419105
NI money looks and feels like monopoly money
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
You'll have to remind me of the date when the UK entered into a formal political union with the EU, sharing a Parliament,currency,institutions and armed forces.
The UK could leave Europe tomorrow and still have everything in place to function as a country, Scotland could not.
So no, it's not the same..at all.
Vivalaraza
Member
Has the leak regarding SNP cuts on the NHS made any waves in Scotland?
It's being reported, but it broke too late to make the print news today.
AHA-Lambda
Member
I put it on my facebook, still got a bunch of hate from yes people of course.
MilkyJoe
Member
What do you do? Take away a nuclear deterent when Russia are acting up these last several years?
And yes it does matter how little or how much they spend. You cant say, oh it doesnt matter Mr Salmon bought himself an £800 pair of trousers on the tax payer because the UK Government spent X upgrading the military?? If you are going to have a pop at least make some sense. As a civil servent he took £800 of public money and bought himself trousers for himself, for him to wear! That is embezzlement if you want to say he "works for the people". You remember how everyone, including you chaps up there, kicked off when the MPs were buying duck houses and moats for their own gardens?? Stop being a hypocrite.
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