sixteen-bit
Member
I hope they land on their feet
Sony Cutting 1,000 Jobs in Mobile Div after $2b Annual Loss
- Thread starter Ape
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zomgbbqftw
Banned
Of course the 140k figure is group wide, but the group operating margin is just 2% and electronic operating margin is -6%, mobile operating margin was 1.5% last year. I'm just not seeing how shedding 1000 positions will really raise the operating margin to the industry average of 9% for mobile as it will save a maximum of $100m on an optimistic per job expense figure.
I really think it is more likely that Sony's Japanese management are axing foreign managers who are more realistic about the brand's place in the world and Kaz is so weak that he is just blithely agreeing with whatever they want.
It's really sad, both for people laid off and for Sony.
I really hoped Kaz would change something but it seems zomgbbqftw was right all along. The man is likeable but he has no balls. He should aknowledge this and resign.
I just can't comprehend how they've managed to screw this up. Xperia phones are really, really good. Actually, considering how many people I know own a Sony phone (I know, not entirely scientific data, and I'm in Europe) I thought they were doing rather well. Not Apple or Samsung well, but good enough to have a positive outlook on the future.
However, 0,2% marketshare in the US is catastrophic. Wasn't mobile one of the pillars of Kaz's strategy to revive Sony?
I really hoped Kaz would change something but it seems zomgbbqftw was right all along. The man is likeable but he has no balls. He should aknowledge this and resign.
I just can't comprehend how they've managed to screw this up. Xperia phones are really, really good. Actually, considering how many people I know own a Sony phone (I know, not entirely scientific data, and I'm in Europe) I thought they were doing rather well. Not Apple or Samsung well, but good enough to have a positive outlook on the future.
However, 0,2% marketshare in the US is catastrophic. Wasn't mobile one of the pillars of Kaz's strategy to revive Sony?
outunderthestars
Banned
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The other stupidity of Sony management is that they even wait months to release their phones unlocked in the US. They should have gone for an aggressive strategy and releases their mid range phones for cheap unlocked on their website and their own retail sites, then pushed for network presence.
I literally can't think of a worse way to break into the US market than Sony over the last couple of years. It was without a doubt the worst strategy ever.
I literally can't think of a worse way to break into the US market than Sony over the last couple of years. It was without a doubt the worst strategy ever.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
I have a job interview with Sony tomorrow. I can't imagine it would be worth taking a job with them.
Wind's Howling
Member
Sony just failed on the the whole mobile aspect by not supporting allot of countries and barely releasing in the US.
I am just glad the PlayStation brand is the almost the only wealthy project of them.
I really do not want that brand to go away in the near future.
I am just glad the PlayStation brand is the almost the only wealthy project of them.
I really do not want that brand to go away in the near future.
It really not that wealthy to them in turn of making a profit.
LeeRoyBrown
Banned
The problem isnt the phones, I have a Z1 and it's fantastic, the issue is the same as always, Sony needs to start brain washing.
I work selling phones and when people walk in it's.
SO DO I GET AN IPHONE OR SAMSUNG DER HERP?!?!?
I work selling phones and when people walk in it's.
SO DO I GET AN IPHONE OR SAMSUNG DER HERP?!?!?
It would depend on where in the company, if you're applying for an insurance salesman then go for it.
sometimes i game
Member
This company is ran by idiots.
"The market is rewarding companies who provide a value, and we REFUSE because thats ICKY. We would rather withdraw from this market altogether than not charge a premium for the SONY emblem that no one thinks is worth paying for"
Moto G is Moto's best selling phone ever. Sony, do that. Literally, just do that, and you'd be huge.
Triplicates
Member
That is not as easy as it sounds because you need to make profits, and that is especially difficult for a relatively small and inefficient latecomer like Sony. Even Samsung, with its unparalleled scale economies, suffered a 7% drop in smartphone marketshare in just the past quarter owing to Chinese makers. In the eyes of many analysts, even Samsung's long-term growth potential is rather dim. This is an incredibly difficult landscape to traverse.
CadetMahoney
Member
*smirk*
sometimes i game
Member
I agree with this, but Samsung is in a war with Apple. Motorola said "What can we do differently? Let's make a quality phone for $180" and it's become their biggest selling smartphone ever.
I'm not convinced Sony thinks "What can we do differently?" aside from making a compact phone, which is cool, but we're in a world of giant phone demand.
They could make a true Vita phone. They could do a huge push for value phones affordable without a contract. They could give away Sony Music + Video membership with purchase of a phone, making it a gateway into the world of Sony a la Amazon. They don't really stand for something, their products just exist.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
If one thing is certain, observing the mobile landscape over the last decade or so, building ecosystem is the name of the game. Pack in as much proprietary features into your phone as you can to lock in users but be able to be open enough to allow newcomers to migrate with comfort. Apple does its thing but on andriod's side, Samsung seems to have it on lock. I thought it was going to be HTC at one point but they focused too much on software. Looking back, it feels like Sony was being too conservative with new tech markets and Samsung out-Sony-ed Sony.
What division are you interviewing for?
What division are you interviewing for?
get in there and do work son!
At this point, they stand for making pretty fucking awesome phones that they don't know what to do with. I believe that they were really the first company that started pushing all those waterproofing features hard. It seems that their 6 month releases have allowed them to really refine their premium phone offering into something special. With proper marketing in the US and partnership with all carriers, I don't think it will be hard to sell a phone that looks great and feels premium, is legitimately waterpoof/durable, has a great camera, not as confusing to use for consumers because it's near stock android, and has the best battery life out of any other phone on the market currently (consumers number one demand... like always). Nothing in the industry is currently touching this:
Sony execs need to stop being so damn stupid.
Take it and rise through the ranks to out-Kaz Kaz and become king of Sony.
Must be nice to have so many options.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Holy god damn.
I feel bad for the workers that are going to lose their jobs over asinine management like this. It wouldn't have stopped a massive loss, but that is just some dumb fucking decision making, and at least could have shown growth or something.
As it is now? Maybe not.
It still has some profitable sectors and name recognition. So I don't see the company itself going away, nor the brand.
Speaking specifically to Sony Mobile though, they've been making some really nice phones. Why are they not usually available in the US?
Isn't the issue more the opposite? People see them as a premium brand, but don't want to pay for it?
ConfusingJazz
Member
I seem to recall Howard Stringer referring to the Sony brand as the Rolls-Royce of electronics and insisting they pursue the premium market and pricing level. That strategy didn't exactly bear fruit and yet they still seem to think that's their way back.
I feel that it might be too late at this point even if they finally wake up and do whatever they can to get Z4/Z4C into the US market. I personally would love Z3C, but good damn Sony...
Aquamarine
Member
If anything, Sony Financial (Sony Life Insurance, Sony Bank, Sony Assurance, Sony Bank Securities) will spin-off as its own company.
Look at their extraordinarily solvent and profitable business:
They would do well without the bloat of Sony Corporation tying them down.
PlayStation would probably dissolve, though. Too much risk.
Twilight Princess
Member
Sony is like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and Kaz's job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
If anything, the Sony Financial holding company (Sony Life Insurance, Sony Bank, Sony Assurance, Sony Bank Securities) will spin-off as a separate company.
Look at their extraordinarily solvent and profitable business:
They would do well without the bloat of Sony Corporation tying them down.
PlayStation would probably dissolve, though. Too much risk.
There were some rumours that SFH were interested in acquiring Williams and Glyn once RBS finalise the ring fence and sale. A UK banking licence is basically a licence to print money but it could require a rights issue to fund the purchase.
Otherwise, what would you make of this Sony:
SFH
SPE
SME
SCE
Digital imaging, professional imaging only
Semi conductor
Battery
Only one consumer facing electronics division backed by media assets. Everything else is B2B or media.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I'm a fan of their Xperia line, but I agree that the oversaturation of the Z line (the Z1 was announced last September and we're already at Z3), the lack of unique features (outside of waterproofing), and inconsistent availability and marketing are hurting it.
I'm not sure what that has to do with what you quoted?
Carriers do carry hero phones from several manufacturers. It's not like Sony is charging a premium over them.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It's too bad. Sony makes some really good smartphones. They're just a bit crap at selling them (especially in America - they're doing a bit better here in Europe I think).
Technosteve
Banned
Sony should of bought Motorola if they wanted to be competitive at all in the android market place. Sony's products really are nothing special outside of specs and display, there is almost nothing novel about the handsets that integrate software and hardware.
They also move at a snail's pace.
They also move at a snail's pace.
neogaffer1
Banned
Something that's incredibly hard to get. Samsung only managed to get proper marketing after pumping millions upon millions into its marketing division; HTC tried to rely on the carriers for marketing and their phone bombed hard (One X). Launching on every carrier is also next to impossible these days. OEMs with pretty much no presence in the US are fucked because the carriers don't give two shits about helping them build their brand. You can be Sharp and make some of the most amazing phones in the world and still only be able to get one mid-range phone backed by the US carrier in a decade. You can be Motorola launching something new and get backed by carriers due to past success but then get dumped hard when your product stumbles for the next iteration (only AT&T and VZW are carrying the Moto X second gen). In the past few years, only Verizon and occasionally AT&T have really bothered to give Sony the time of day. Things looked better with T-Mobile with the Z2 but the lack of any Z3 or any other Xperia phone might point to that deal going sour. Sony's mobile division survives off of Europe and Asia; people scoff at their decision to ignore the US but I don't blame them. People want Xperia phones to come here and think it may be profitable but that's only for the very top selling phones. Everybody else is trying to grovel for sales.
There's a lot of problems with their products but this is not true in the slightest. Waterproofed razer thin smartphone that looks classy as fuck? That definitely has appeal to lots of people. Plus they don't move at a snail's place, they actually refresh their line up twice as fast as everybody else (one of their major problems).
If what zomg said in that post is true, then Sony leadership are far more incompetent than I thought. They should be moving heaven and earth to get the Z series on all carriers in NA ASAP.
One theory I heard about as to why Sony dragged their feet with regards to carriers is they they wanted to build the Z brand outside the US to the point where when they finally did approach the carriers, they'd have some bargaining power in terms of branding and other issues. If true, then that strategy was a spectacular failure.
One theory I heard about as to why Sony dragged their feet with regards to carriers is they they wanted to build the Z brand outside the US to the point where when they finally did approach the carriers, they'd have some bargaining power in terms of branding and other issues. If true, then that strategy was a spectacular failure.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Because premium phones in the US are typically bought via contracts through carriers, there is a very small market for direct buyers of premium phones, and almost none outside of the iPhone.
To create a market, especially for something with as little brand awareness in the mobile market place as Sony, you have to strike deals with the major carriers in the US: AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, or Sprint. Sony literally had deals with three out of the four of those in the bag, and fucked them up over dumb managerial decisions.
Granted, this still wouldn't have made too much of a dent in the US market share, but it wouldn't be as pathetic as 0.2%
Technosteve
Banned
samsung spends billions on advertising for their brand
when was the last time you saw a sony ad for a sony product that's not the PS4
What was the Sony's last huge feature on Android that made you go wow, Motorola has always on voice tracking always on motion tracking, Samsung has everything that's popular, they go yeah our phone has that, Sony's like HTC they got the hardware right but what about the software that integrates with the hardware?
when was the last time you saw a sony ad for a sony product that's not the PS4
What was the Sony's last huge feature on Android that made you go wow, Motorola has always on voice tracking always on motion tracking, Samsung has everything that's popular, they go yeah our phone has that, Sony's like HTC they got the hardware right but what about the software that integrates with the hardware?
That's what I was looking for. So Sony screwed up the deals themselves? It wasn't due to carrier disinterest?
If true ... that's not a good look for Kaz. This is the sort of shit he's there to fix. Sony took the risk of buying back Sony/Ericsson under his tenure. If their management is still a shit-show, that's on him.
ConfusingJazz
Member
That's in zomg's post I linked.
It's a shame that they've lost that much money, but looking at their mobile division there did seem to be some apparent problems such as not releasing them, or not realising them quickly in the US and releasing too many low-end phones thus cutting out a large market.
I know a lot of people like their premium Xperia Z phones and I myself am planning on getting the new Z3 compact when it releases. However, I don't know anyone either has one or has voiced interest in the rest of the Xperia phone range. Marketing seems to be an issue also, I don't think I've seen any TV adverts in the UK for any of the Xperia Z phones.
I know a lot of people like their premium Xperia Z phones and I myself am planning on getting the new Z3 compact when it releases. However, I don't know anyone either has one or has voiced interest in the rest of the Xperia phone range. Marketing seems to be an issue also, I don't think I've seen any TV adverts in the UK for any of the Xperia Z phones.
I must be reading a different post, because that's now what I got out of it. All I'm seeing is an argument that Sony's brand recognision/mindshare is worse than Samsung, etc. Which I'm not sure I agree to begin with.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Look at the two quotes, he is quoting himself, and have all the info.
whatever77
Banned
According to WFTBBQ, the mobile division is run by old management who don't know what they are doing.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The thing is HTC, LG and Motorola bent over backwards and converted the carriers one by one over the years to get on their networks. Sony do not do whatever it takes to get it done. T-Mobile did the work for them, that's why the phones were so bloody late. They refused point blank to open up a CDMA testing group for VZW for two years and only changed that stance in May of this year. Masayoshi Son personally spoke to Kunimasa Suzuki to get a device for SoftBank in Japan which he said he would push on Sprint once the takeover was complete, Sony declined and said they would remain with their NTT partnership who then predictably sold Sony up the river a few months later and did a deal with Apple for the iPhone. Son signed a deal with Sharp and now their phones are being released on Sprint, the first weird Japanese devices to make it out of the country.
Sony Mobile management are a bunch of fools. The networks have no interest in carrying their devices and yet they try and act like Apple who command the attention of every carrier in the world. Sony as a brand is worthless outside of PlayStation and they need to come to terms with that and rebuild from zero, and in some areas less than zero where they are associated with poor value for money.
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