Mister_Bubbles
Member
I'd forgotten about that. At the time I thought that was odd, but the game is so full of things that don't sound like they quite make sense I just dismissed it.
Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
I'd forgotten about that. At the time I thought that was odd, but the game is so full of things that don't sound like they quite make sense I just dismissed it.
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
Not much I can add that hasn't been said. Whether 404 is legit or not he's clearly tapped into the general feeling about this game that what was sold to us hardly matches up to what we were told. I can't say its a bad game. On production values and minute to minute gameplay alone it easily hits over a 5 on a 1-10 scale. The story we got though is abysmal and that's just one glaring problem of many. I had a great time playing through Destiny but mostly because I did so with my best friend. Still I feel like I was misled with this game.
You can't say everything floating around right now isn't legit. From missing story scenes out of trailers to concrete promises of more areas and things to do in vidoc. You have the Crow listed on imbd and a shot from Bungie's own vidoc showing a screen of a Crow mission on Venus. Maybe the story they had beforehand was awful and deserved to be cut but almost nothing was left in its place and that's just as bad. Destiny is off to a bad start for a franchise to have "10 yr plan" aspirations.
One of the biggest red flags I see that the game was most likely cut up and changed drastically is the opening mission. The first time I played it in the beta I felt that Bungie could be believed when they said they had an epic standard singeplayer campaign to play. It felt like something out of CoD and Halo. Very directed, the way the ships come in and the dialouge works with whats going on. The structred, cinematic nature of it all. Nothing in the rest of the game is like that. After that mission everything plays out like I don't know, Defiance? Honestly that's sort of an insult to Defiance.
When Bungie said the beta represented only 10% of the game I figured there might be more room for more missions like the opening. How wrong I was. It was like 25% of the game and every mission after the first is nearly identical. I think, and I think most would agree, that it's obvious that Destiny went through some big traumatic changes towards the end.
Maybe what was cut deserved to be but they gave us a shell of a game. I'd say the game could have used another year but apparently they couldn't take that kind of risk cutting into royalties and that's tough. It's just a shame that after the initial reveal and all the leadup this is what we got. I did not buy into the hype of this game and still I was disappointed.
You can't say everything floating around right now isn't legit. From missing story scenes out of trailers to concrete promises of more areas and things to do in vidoc. You have the Crow listed on imbd and a shot from Bungie's own vidoc showing a screen of a Crow mission on Venus. Maybe the story they had beforehand was awful and deserved to be cut but almost nothing was left in its place and that's just as bad. Destiny is off to a bad start for a franchise to have "10 yr plan" aspirations.
One of the biggest red flags I see that the game was most likely cut up and changed drastically is the opening mission. The first time I played it in the beta I felt that Bungie could be believed when they said they had an epic standard singeplayer campaign to play. It felt like something out of CoD and Halo. Very directed, the way the ships come in and the dialouge works with whats going on. The structred, cinematic nature of it all. Nothing in the rest of the game is like that. After that mission everything plays out like I don't know, Defiance? Honestly that's sort of an insult to Defiance.
When Bungie said the beta represented only 10% of the game I figured there might be more room for more missions like the opening. How wrong I was. It was like 25% of the game and every mission after the first is nearly identical. I think, and I think most would agree, that it's obvious that Destiny went through some big traumatic changes towards the end.
Maybe what was cut deserved to be but they gave us a shell of a game. I'd say the game could have used another year but apparently they couldn't take that kind of risk cutting into royalties and that's tough. It's just a shame that after the initial reveal and all the leadup this is what we got. I did not buy into the hype of this game and still I was disappointed.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Maybe we'll know what happened in a documentary or a article in the future.
Or we may never know. Perhaps that's for the best.
But it is odd how all the promised story never came to fruition. Something definitly must've happened towards the end of development.
Or we may never know. Perhaps that's for the best.
But it is odd how all the promised story never came to fruition. Something definitly must've happened towards the end of development.
farmerboy
Member
I think it's already happening. I'm only level 8, so I haven't seen the whole game yet, but everyone in the tower is level 20 plus. Where are all the guys who just started playing this week like me and should be around my level or so. I hardly see anyone under 20 at all.
All in all it's a pretty big blunder by guys you think would get it right (Acti & Bungie). $500mil and not even one good cutscene to deliver some sort of story/background/context.
unless they're coming, like I said, I haven't seen it all
This.
As far as I'm concerned, this game is a fucking piece of shit and they should be sued for it.
Not even making a better sequel will get back all the goodwill they burned away. Good job, Bungie. You made millions, but in return, gave a big middle-finger to your consumers. Go fuck yourself.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Another thing that I noticed is Activision/Bungie clearly not wanting to call this an MMO. This kind of links in with what 404 said. As in Activision wanting to dumb the game down and have it appeal more to the COD audience. And calling it MMO labels it in the same park as World of Warcraft and what not. Which to the "mass market" is kind of dorky and not exactly appealing.
I know a lot of people love WOW and I think it's great. I'm just talking about the everyman who buys COD every year who went out and bought Destiny kind of thing.
I know a lot of people love WOW and I think it's great. I'm just talking about the everyman who buys COD every year who went out and bought Destiny kind of thing.
Memorabilia
Member
Lol 10/10
Memorabilia
Member
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
That's sort of weird though. You'd think they'd keep the driven and cinematic story and campaign they had then (more like Cod/BF etc) than cut it out and leave almost nothing. Who was this supposed to appeal to?
Sodding_Gamer
Member
I guess I'm talking more of the MMO aspects and stuff that were taken out of the game, rather than the story.
I've got no idea why the story was gutted apart from what 404 said. If it was so bad it would of been better than nothing, which is pretty much what we have now.
Edit: Like the matchmaking, trading, etc. The more deeper aspects of MMORPG's that 404 claimed that Destiny did have at one point but was cut back.
I love the gameplay of Destiny, but I've read Harry Potter fan fiction from 2004 that had more depth to its narrative than Destiny. I played through the story and had no idea what in fucks name was going on. There are robots, and these things called the hive. Why I am shooting at them I don't really know, something about an incestuious couple that I think lives in a space ship in this purple and black world. There's a robot lady as well. There was some exposition and then she vanished. After I shot some mini bosses and that giant roast beef died, that white imperial guard said some stuff about the floating jawbreaker. I wonder what that tastes like?
The end.
The end.
PrintedCrayon
Banned
The more and more you read into Destiny's development the more of a fucking mess it becomes. One thing is for sure, the game that was envisioned and promoted a year or so ago is not the same one that shipped.
You have to wonder just what was (is?) happening at Bungie for something this catastrophic to happen - 5+ years (potentially) in development and content was being cut and changed mere months before release. What an absolute joke.
It disappoints me no end too, because the original vision for this game sounds incredible - like genuinely exciting - a vast variety of planets, an ACTUAL narrative, faction based quests...
I've enjoyed my time with the game, but I feel suckered in (having bought the LE). I am not actually sure there are enough content patches in the world that can bring this game back to what was originally intended.
Bungie have dropped the (grif)ball with this one and I shall be very hesitant in purchasing anything Destiny related in the future, that's for sure.
You have to wonder just what was (is?) happening at Bungie for something this catastrophic to happen - 5+ years (potentially) in development and content was being cut and changed mere months before release. What an absolute joke.
It disappoints me no end too, because the original vision for this game sounds incredible - like genuinely exciting - a vast variety of planets, an ACTUAL narrative, faction based quests...
I've enjoyed my time with the game, but I feel suckered in (having bought the LE). I am not actually sure there are enough content patches in the world that can bring this game back to what was originally intended.
Bungie have dropped the (grif)ball with this one and I shall be very hesitant in purchasing anything Destiny related in the future, that's for sure.
HiddenForbiddenHolyGround
Member
Personally I think they avoid calling it an MMO so as to sidestep deficincies in the systems of the game. "Guys it doesn't work exactly like an MMO because it's a shared world shooter" some dedicated fans will say. A you can't criticize what you can't understand defence. Like you can't judge Destiny until you've played for 20 hours.
I think dorky is more than in enough for the mass market to be okay with an MMO. Look at how Skyrim did and Game of Thrones. But if its some suits making guessses based off other peoples' guesses making these decisions then what you suggest might not even be far off the mark.
Back in the golden days of Halo from the original Xbox, Bungie have been my favourite Dev. I loved their community appreciation and angle, doing the behind the scene videos, events and other cool goodies. It seems like they really listened and respected opinions of people. Not to mention the Halo games were so much fun, I got every game day one and spent countless hours playing them.
Destiny has been a massive turnaround, I don't even want to play it anymore. 20 hours and i'm done. I highly doubt i'll be revisiting it much, I should just sell it to be honest. What a let down. Halo is going to continue to flourish meanwhile Destiny is ... well I don't know really just there, grinding the same old shit over and over.
Destiny has been a massive turnaround, I don't even want to play it anymore. 20 hours and i'm done. I highly doubt i'll be revisiting it much, I should just sell it to be honest. What a let down. Halo is going to continue to flourish meanwhile Destiny is ... well I don't know really just there, grinding the same old shit over and over.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Yeah fair point. I'm only theorising of course.
Urghh such a let down
Ah well roll on Driveclub and The Evil Within!"they should be sued for it"
Really? I mean, come on, "You made a bad game, we will sue you". How is that even supposed to work?
The suing part is a "bit" extreme lol
But I agree with the sentiment, Bungie had enough clout to tell Activision they will not release the game in it's current unfinished state and instead chose $ over their reputation.
Few expected the product that was actually delivered based off of Bungiie's history with quality.
They deserve any fallout they get from this game
family_guy
Member
More about misrepresentation of the product. Bait and switch.
Mugatu
Member
That's not what bait and switch means.
While I think you're all wrong for wanting to sue over this, you'd probably find quite a few lawyers who would do this for you.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Lordy, some of you need to step outside and find a new hobby. Just wow at the hyperbole.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
I think there needs to be some sort of policy in place about reviews to be honest. Rather than suing left right and centre. The game should have been reviewed Day 1. not like a week in advance when it doesn't really matter anymore as Activisions marketing hype has taken over everyone's minds. Mine included.
neurosisxeno
Member
The best part is that most of the people making these outrageous claims will go out and buy the next iteration of the game when it launches anyway.
Twilight Gap
Member
we didn't run into problems with the loot system in the beta, and nobody seriously expected the entire campaign thereafter would be the exact same as those 6 missions. i also believe the news of one area per planet didn't hit until after the beta.
besides those, many of the game's problems are still present. audio glitches, lag, weapon balance, lack of prox chat, disconnects, etc.
I'll admit that I was exaggerating, but my point still stands.
10 dollars says that they won't learn any shit from this.
I'm fine with my gaming hobby. Too bad for Bungie that this is the last game I'm gonna buy for them.
Unless they fucking man up and admit their mistakes and fix it in the sequel, but they fucking won't of course.
Policies or not, I can't trust reviews anymore.
I'm not even thinking about the sequel. I want them to improve (fix) Destiny. Why would I care for a sequel if the first doesn't match up? They can improve it sure, but whats the point.
In fairness I am enjoying Destiny somewhat, but that's only due to friends and theres some enjoyment I get out of getting exotic/legendary gear, (And hopefully I can get strong enough to beat raid more easily again...and try to get the trophy to do it without dying... *gulp*), but I'm not keen for a sequel based on this, I don't even think Destiny needs a sequel. Why cant this game simply be built further upon?
I think it'd only be justified if it was more aimed at next gen.
I wonder though, if what the 404 guy says is legit...what kinda mind thought epic storytelling was a bad thing? That's one of the things I was most excited to play through, and I'm sure many others.
I'd loved it if they went the Walking Dead route & had 6 $30 chapters. Gamers would hate on it too much though, at least in America where $60 per retail game is carved in stone by God himself.
MMaRsu
Member
lifa-cobex
Member
the fuc!
Ili nur parolas Esperanton.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
This topic has been fascinating to read. Thanks to everybody who posted in it.
R_thanatos
Member
i trully have no idea what "easy to spot in the wild" even mean.
I'm not the biggest bungie fan but still ....
I'm not the biggest bungie fan but still ....
Necromanti
Member
This is one of the biggest 180s I've seen someone make on a game here on NeoGAF, I think. I thought you were sarcastic at first, but that explains the avatar change of Destiny's former #1 fan. I got the feeling that the love was dying, but not to this extent. Anyway, sorry to hear it.
It's sad to see developers like Bungie and Double Fine mishandle all the good will they have accumulated over the years to such a degree.
lifa-cobex
Member
Great read.
Noted the point of "DLC sales will be watched closely"
I'll be very interested too.
Noted the point of "DLC sales will be watched closely"
I'll be very interested too.
The warning was aimed internally...
Ivory Samoan
Member
404 = Legit or best troll ever.
DeeJ's response = Shook.
Everything 404 said made perfect sense and, in a way, made Bungie look better - as at least they didn't set out to make a nonsensical story, it just got cut to be that way.
That AMA gives hope for future content though, as what was described would be so welcome in my Destiny playtime and adventuring.
DeeJ's response = Shook.
Everything 404 said made perfect sense and, in a way, made Bungie look better - as at least they didn't set out to make a nonsensical story, it just got cut to be that way.
That AMA gives hope for future content though, as what was described would be so welcome in my Destiny playtime and adventuring.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Any chance someone could post a NOT blocked-by-work-firewalls-pictures version of the OP so I could actually read it?
Reddit is blocked, and so is wherever the OP is hosting his screen caps or whatever is in that post.
Reddit is blocked, and so is wherever the OP is hosting his screen caps or whatever is in that post.
lifa-cobex
Member
Who can blame.
This game was one reason for a ps4 purchase.
If i'm honest, It was a large reason. This game has left a rather bad taste in my mouth. Still some great games coming out in the future but still.
Not 100% sure if this is a troll article or not, but Bungie hasn't said one fucking word so I'm taking it.
When Konami released Ground zeros for £xxx I was pissed. Things like whats happened to Destiny makes me question company's that I trusted even further.
I know that sounds irrational but I cant help it.
I've spent so much money with these people for so many years.
Maybe this is a naive question, but I'm wondering about something. Say Bungie/Acti stick to the concept of releasing a couple of Destiny games and DLC releases (the Comets) in between. I wonder if the idea was/is that all the older content is (seamlessly) part of the new. In other words, say I jump in with 'Destiny 2', all the content of the previous game and DLC is part of the same game world and playable (perhaps as additional download you have to pay for or whatever).
This way, I can imagine how Destiny might grow into something somewhat resembling the original vision they seem to had: huge world, lots of story/lore, etc. Because they can build on what they have and just keep adding, growing their universe. But if sequels are stand-alone or with very minimal transitioning (just importing your character/gear for example) there's a chance it stays relatively small.
This way, I can imagine how Destiny might grow into something somewhat resembling the original vision they seem to had: huge world, lots of story/lore, etc. Because they can build on what they have and just keep adding, growing their universe. But if sequels are stand-alone or with very minimal transitioning (just importing your character/gear for example) there's a chance it stays relatively small.
lifeexpectancy
Member
"It's popular to hate Destiny, so I hate it too", the thread.
Guys, who gives a fuck if the story is coherent. I don't even pay attention to the story in well over 90% of the games I play, and the vast majority of people are like that. They just want to pick up a game and play it.
The gameplay is repetitive because it borrows too much from the MMO sphere. MMOs are repetitive as fuck. I mean like hundreds of hours of doing the same goddamn thing just to skill up a trade or a faction or whatever. HUNDREDS of hours of repetition.
The raid is fucking fabulous. Playing the Vault of Glass alone justified Destiny's existence for me, even if the grind to be able to play it is, in fact, repetitive and boring as shit.
They need to make materials farming easier/shorter because it's a pointless aspect of the 'grind'.
But this game is not even remotely the garbage many are trying to portray it as. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's a solid experience and well worth my (and many others') time.
This isn't BF4 releasing with a factually BROKEN multiplayer, which was deserving of a lawsuit and refunds all around. This is a game that, on a fundamental level, works. It plays well, it looks good, and the content (albeit small) is there. If you don't like it, that's fine. Move on to a game you like. Or go play another repetitive game where repetition is somehow considered a good thing, like GTAV, where running around the city and being chased by cops and killing civilians is apparently grade-A 10/10 content.
So. much. hyperbole here.... Lordy.
Guys, who gives a fuck if the story is coherent. I don't even pay attention to the story in well over 90% of the games I play, and the vast majority of people are like that. They just want to pick up a game and play it.
The gameplay is repetitive because it borrows too much from the MMO sphere. MMOs are repetitive as fuck. I mean like hundreds of hours of doing the same goddamn thing just to skill up a trade or a faction or whatever. HUNDREDS of hours of repetition.
The raid is fucking fabulous. Playing the Vault of Glass alone justified Destiny's existence for me, even if the grind to be able to play it is, in fact, repetitive and boring as shit.
They need to make materials farming easier/shorter because it's a pointless aspect of the 'grind'.
But this game is not even remotely the garbage many are trying to portray it as. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's a solid experience and well worth my (and many others') time.
This isn't BF4 releasing with a factually BROKEN multiplayer, which was deserving of a lawsuit and refunds all around. This is a game that, on a fundamental level, works. It plays well, it looks good, and the content (albeit small) is there. If you don't like it, that's fine. Move on to a game you like. Or go play another repetitive game where repetition is somehow considered a good thing, like GTAV, where running around the city and being chased by cops and killing civilians is apparently grade-A 10/10 content.
So. much. hyperbole here.... Lordy.
UnluckyKate
Member
Damn that ama is really killing me. How can you screw up so badly ?
A Serious Man
Member
DeeJ on 404Architect.
"We planned on releasing a half-finished mess of a game guys."
I don't hate the game but I really hope the finished product isn't the vision they had when they started development. It's certainly not what they were selling in the year leading up to release.
lifa-cobex
Member
As nice as that sounds, I cant see it happening. It doesn't sound very consumer friendly. Especially to people who didn't play the first Destiny.
This IP has tripped itself up on the first run. It's always going to be a bad stain to people (like myself). Even if Destiny 2 comes out guns blazing and puts all the content in that originally promised. I cant see the sales matching the first week on the original release. Not at first anyway.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Why does this comparison keep coming up? Is "not incredibly broken" really all we can expect from our $60 these days? The fact that they totally misrepresented the story (which, your anecdotal evidence aside, is a big deal for some people), that doesn't count for anything? The ludicrously barebones multiplayer suite, the blatant cut-and-pastes, the incredible reuse of assets pushing into DA2 territory... none of these are grounds for criticism?
lifa-cobex
Member
family_guy
Member
I'm glad some developers still care about good storytelling otherwise I would have left gaming years ago. I'll keep a game with a great story just to go back and experience it again. For me this game will be forgotten by November and not missed.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Ummm, I care if the story is coherent because they were advertising Destiny as a grand game to rival Mass Effect and Star Wars. Not only that, but the lack of story and the blandness of the missions means the current end game is simply replaying them. Also please don't speak for everyone to try to make your point valid. It's a weak debating point which shows you have little to support your opinion.
Just because you don't care about a games story doesn't mean you suddenly invalid all the criticism this game holds, or the clear lack of coherence in the marketing and development of the game.
And really? One raid sold you on Destiny? I see that FF 13 logic is living strong with some people.
Winter John
Member
I don't think there should be a lawsuit, but the option for a refund would be nice.
Poodlestrike
Banned
If you went digital, try contacting Sony or MS. A few people have managed to get refunds, though that was a little while ago.
Winter John
Member
Really? That's interesting. I did go digital. I didn't know people could get refunds for those. What reasons did they give for wanting refunded?
qa_engineer
Member
This is why I've yet to plop down any more cash on the season pass. You disappoint me, Bungie. You had a chance to tell a great story and introduce gamers to a whole new world and you botched it. There is no turning back now, the story is lost and all you have left is this vague, cryptic half-assed story that no one cares about. All we're doing is running around the same areas killing bullet sponges for shiny new things. So much potential wasted. Oh well you have my 60 dollars so I guess there's that right