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[ChawlieTheFair]

Yes you are. People are pointing out to you why the word is regarded as code in many cases. That you disagree with them because you didn't know about the examples they're using? That's essentially the definition of ignorance. Your opposition is firmly rooted in your lack of knowing what the other people are talking about. That's how ignorance works.

That your counter-examples are "I saw a kid knock over a cereal box at the supermarket" and that said counter-example is being offered up as if it carries equal cultural weight is annoying on top of it.

That YOU don't do that is sorta immaterial to the fact A LOT OF PEOPLE do. It's disingenuous to further suggest that because YOU dont' do that means others are simply incorrect about how often it happens everywhere else. That doesn't even follow, logically.

And a lot of people here think thug just refers to tough guy/criminal. The fact that young teenagers in the millions using thug life as a joke perhaps does have a huge cultural impact, maybe more so than one sporting event that is only popular in the United States.

Don't you think you should educate yourself/understand the context of the word in our society, before you dismiss the idea?

Well that's the thing, there are two sides in this thread, some believe the word "thug" has one context, some believe it has another.

 

[Slayven]

Black people are "Thugs",and "Aggressive", white people are "troubled"

 

[Cronox]

It's just a certain style of internet-speak. Nothing about the site strikes me as intending to give the impression of a black person talking to the reader. Thug is a word that has different meanings and positive/negative connotations depending who's saying it. From the writing style of the site, I think the founders intend "thug" to mean an aggressive/in your face tough guy. The article is reaching.

Being offended by things like Thug Kitchen is the internet version of "won't someone think of the children?" We don't have to be morality/culture police for everyone and everything, and I think the business of "who's offended now" is worsening internet discourse. Much like any attempt at comedy can be broken down until it's unfunny, it can also be broken down until there's something to be offended about.

Maddox and many other white writers on the internet have used this style of writing for years without any sort of attempt to convince their readers they're black or link it to black people. I mean, there are Onion articles that read like this. Give me a break.

Also, the article isn't really criticizing Thug Kitchen specifically, moreso using it as a launching point to talk about the word "thug." That's fine, but Thug Kitchen is caught in the crossfire here for something it really doesn't have anything to do with.

 

[basik]

atleast ghetto garage still has authentic integrity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-OrFGgRCQ&list=UU9dPNPMy3x_IVMQbNBmQ9jg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwO2k92E28


somebody tell me how to embed youtube vids on gaf please.

 

[ICKE]

This is a reasonable stance to take in rebuttal of some posts in this thread, however it's pretty hard to argue that the creators of Thug Kitchen were ignorant of the connotations inherent in the name.

I suppose so. I just feel that intent matters and these people were just trying to add some edginess to their recipes while someone who calls Trayvon Martin a "thug who deserved xyz" is clearly angling for something else.

Thug Kitchen is not making social commentary, these people are just adding some cuss words to sandwiches and what not.

 

[Paskil]

Also, the people denying that it's a safe way to say "nigger" are the reason that news outlets and people continue to get away with using it whenever you see a news article pop up involving the justice system and a black person.

Go look at a news story comment section about a white person on pending assault or murder charges. Check how many times people call that individual a thug.

Now go read the comments on an article where a black individual is being charged with any crime, violent or not. Count the number. Then come back and try to say that it isn't used in a racist context with a straight face.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

This is a reasonable stance to take in rebuttal of some posts in this thread, however it's pretty hard to argue that the creators of Thug Kitchen were ignorant of the connotations inherent in the name.

yes I totally agree that it's obvious what Thug Kitchen was going for, but that point in the article is what I had a problem with.

 

[Hagi]

Could some of you stop being so predictable with the feigned ignorance

Thug as a safe way to say nigger has been talked about in the media and on Gaf for quite some time

Maybe they are just ignorant? I know i am about this particular scenario. Not once in my 24 years have i heard or read that thug was synonymous with black person. Thug has always been a way to describe a common criminal in my experience here in Scotland. That the US has an ever growing not so secret language to debase black people with is not something i keep up to date with whether its posted on Gaf or not.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

First thing that pops to my head when i hear the word thugs is football hooligans.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Go look at a news story comment section about a white person on pending assault or murder charges. Check how many times people call that individual a thug.

Now go read the comments on an article where a black individual is being charged with any crime, violent or not. Count the number. Then come back and try to say that it isn't used in a racist context with a straight face.

Don't even need to go that far, just search the word "thug" in the Trayvon Martin thread and then search thug in a Justin Bieber thread (spoiler...I'm probably responsible for the word even turning up in a JB thread).

 

[ItIsOkBro]

There's a backlash, because many people thought the writers were black. Does that mean those readers are racist for inferring such?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

And a lot of people here think thug just refers to tough guy/criminal.

I know.

This isn't an either/or thing. It can mean that. It can ALSO have it's coded meaning. The problem is that you are rejecting that the second meaning even exists. There's absolutely no reason to do so. You can say "I don't mean it that way" without having to go so far as to say other people are somehow mistaken when they mention the second meaning. Because they're not. It's absolutely true that the word "Thug" is racially coded now. That's not even really a question.

Again - the fact that YOU don't use it that way doesn't mean NOBODY does. That doesn't even follow, logically.

 

[radios shipping overview]

It's just a certain style of internet-speak. Nothing about the site strikes me as intending to give the impression of a black person talking to the reader. Thug is a word that has different meanings and positive/negative connotations depending who's saying it. From the writing style of the site, I think the founders intend "thug" to mean an aggressive/in your face tough guy. The article is reaching.

Being offended by things like Thug Kitchen is the internet version of "won't someone think of the children?" We don't have to be morality/culture police for everyone and everything, and I think the business of "who's offended now" is worsening internet discourse. Much like any attempt at comedy can be broken down until it's unfunny, it can also be broken down until there's something to be offended about.

Maddox and many other white writers on the internet have used this style of writing for years without any sort of attempt to convince their readers they're black or link it to black people. I mean, there are Onion articles that read like this. Give me a break.

Also, the article isn't really criticizing Thug Kitchen specifically, moreso using it as a launching point to talk about the word "thug." That's fine, but Thug Kitchen is caught in the crossfire here for something it really doesn't have anything to do with.

When white people are caught using language that perpetuates harmful stereotypes, especially when they're using it to make a buck, they need to be held accountable for it. That goes even if the authors of Thug Kitchen didn't realize the significance of what they were doing, and even if their white readers don't realize it either. People need to be educated about how what they say or write can carry racist or otherwise hurtful connotations even if they don't intend or realize it. As far as I see it, this can only improve discourse of all kinds.

 

[Anton Sugar]

What the hell is a football hooligan? Two posters have used that phrase now.

 

[ICKE]

What the hell is a football hooligan? Two posters have used that phrase now.

Are you serious? I guess this serves as proof that some Europeans and Americans are living literally in a different world. I personally associate the word mainly with football hooligans.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Maddox and many other white writers on the internet have used this style of writing for years without any sort of attempt to convince their readers they're black or link it to black people.

What Maddox does and what these two do is not even comparable. The styles do not mesh/blend at all.

The word "blog" is literally shorthand for "boring;" a vulgar, overused word that strikes your ear with the dull thud of a cudgel to the soft spot of a child's head. It's an abbreviation used by journalism drop outs to give legitimacy to their shallow opinions and amateur photography that seems to be permanently stuck in first draft hell. Looking in the archives of the blogs, one would expect someone who has been at it for years to slowly hone their craft and improve their writing and photographs, since it's usually safe to assume that if someone does something long enough, he or she will eventually not suck at it. Even with lowered expectations, you'll get a shotgun blast of disappointment in your face

THERE’S SO MUCH GOD DAMN SPINACH in this shit even Popeye can’t hate. You can make this shit at home cheap. Yeah spinach makes you swoll as fuck, we know that. But did you know just one cup of spinach is over 300% of your daily recommended Vitamin A? Sweet fuck. You worried about acne? Wrinkles? Any other skin shit? Spinach to the mother fucking rescue. That shit keeps your skin looking so fresh and so clean, not to mention helping to prevent skin cancer.

Spinach has these plant-based compounds called “flavonoids” that not only repair damaged skin but also fight multiple types of cancer. Everybody knows I ain’t even fucking playing when it comes to dick cancer, I gotta have my shit in tact.

These are not similar voices. There are similarities in that profanity is used, but the voice is not interchangeable.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Maybe they are just ignorant? I know i am about this particular scenario. Not once in my 24 years have i heard or read that thug was synonymous with black person. Thug has always been a way to describe a common criminal in my experience here in Scotland. That the US has an ever growing not so secret language to debase black people with is not something i keep up to date with whether its posted on Gaf or not.

That is why I said "some." There is a group of predictably incredulous posters in any race-related thread. And I wouldn't expect the same level of exposure to the concept from someone outside of the country.

I know.

This isn't an either/or thing. It can mean that. It can ALSO have it's coded meaning. The problem is that you are rejecting that the second meaning even exists. There's absolutely no reason to do so. You can say "I don't mean it that way" without having to go so far as to say other people are somehow mistaken when they mention the second meaning. Because they're not. It's absolutely true that the word "Thug" is racially coded now. That's not even really a question.

Again - the fact that YOU don't use it that way doesn't mean NOBODY does. That doesn't even follow, logically.

Exactly.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

What the hell is a football hooligan? Two posters have used that phrase now.

As in soccer hooligan. Think of a teenager or early twenties dude who is violent and way too in to the sport/following his team.

Edit: comparable to like a skater? Sorta.

I know.

This isn't an either/or thing. It can mean that. It can ALSO have it's coded meaning. The problem is that you are rejecting that the second meaning even exists. There's absolutely no reason to do so. You can say "I don't mean it that way" without having to go so far as to say other people are somehow mistaken when they mention the second meaning. Because they're not. It's absolutely true that the word "Thug" is racially coded now. That's not even really a question.

Again - the fact that YOU don't use it that way doesn't mean NOBODY does. That doesn't even follow, logically.

Ok that's fair. Sorry, I guess I didn't understand what you originally mean't. My apologies.

When white people are caught using language that perpetuates harmful stereotypes, especially when they're using it to make a buck, they need to be held accountable for it. That goes even if the authors of Thug Kitchen didn't realize the significance of what they were doing, and even if their white readers don't realize it either. People need to be educated about how what they say or write can carry racist or otherwise hurtful connotations even if they don't intend or realize it. As far as I see it, this can only improve discourse of all kinds.

As a genuine question, how would you feel about black people carrying the same stereotypes in jokes etc.

 

[PeskyToaster]

What the hell is a football hooligan? Two posters have used that phrase now.

Like an obnoxious person at a sporting event, though I think it has a violent connotation. So more than just being loud.

 

[riotous]

Maddox and many other white writers on the internet have used this style of writing for years without any sort of attempt to convince their readers they're black or link it to black people. I mean, there are Onion articles that read like this. Give me a break.

They mix in a lot of ebonics.

I remember when the site first launched.. it was almost ALL ebonics.

Find a recipe from 2012 and you are more likely to see it.

Examples:

http://www.thugkitchen.com/agua_fresca

Son, agua fresca is the fucking JAM.

http://www.thugkitchen.com/healthy_pet_food

personally I’d rather be broke as fuck and have a healthy pet that loves me like cray. money ain’t shit next to that.

my dog is so fucking healthy that when we go to the vet, the vet pays me. real talk.

They still do it but have toned it down a lot.

However I remember this site when it first launched.. it was patently obvious at that time it was an attempt to conjur up images of an African American chef.

I don't recall Maddox ever saying "Son", or "My Jam".. or "Come correct".. or "elevate your game".. nobody owns these words, but they to me were and continue to be clear attempts to sound like someone using ebonics.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Like an obnoxious person at a sporting event, though I think it has a violent connotation. So more than just being loud.

Are you serious? I guess this serves as proof that some Europeans and Americans are living literally in a different world. I personally associate the word mainly with football hooligans.

Thanks. I don't follow soccer/futbol/football at all, sorry.

 

[Malvolio]

As always, intent matters. I think it's clear what their intent was and it's clearly racist. It does not however, mean that every time the word is used there are racist intentions behind it.

 

[WedgeX]

All I could think of while reading the article.

 

[dcdobson]

These are quite possibly the whitest people in the entire world.

 

[BobbyRobby]

And now I know about 'Thug Kitchen'

It seems really lame. I don't have a problem with whites writing black humor. Louie CK wrote for Chris Rock show, and the Chappelle show was co-wrote by the white Neil Brennan.

The main problem is, judging by the article, is this is just not funny.

Edit: This feels like an idea that could be milked for one sketch at best, or a single entry on a cooking website. Playing on the idea that thugs aren't expected to care about food preparation. To keep the joke running with a website perpetually is embarrassing.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Eh, maybe in some cultural circles, thug is primarily an african-american identifier, but I reckon that just as many people if not more use it to refer to a wide range of individuals.

Etymologically speaking, thug has nothing to do with black people, so there's that too.

 

[dyergram]

I read some of that site seemed like a bit of fun tbh. Don't care if the authors are white.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Eh, maybe in some cultural circles, thug is primarily an african-american identifier, but I reckon that just as many people if not more use it to refer to a wide range of individuals.

Etymologically speaking, thug has nothing to do with black people, so there's that too.

They know using "Thug Kitchen" as a name makes you think about black culture, and the site lives up to that. Therefore, this word must be well-known for meaning exactly that.

 

[ICKE]

So a general question regarding the use of this word. Was there a strong racial connotation behind it before these widely reported incidents like Trayvon Martin? I'm looking at this from a European perspective and I only noticed social commentary after Zimmerman supporters used the term "violent thug"?

 

[radios shipping overview]

As a genuine question, how would you feel about black people carrying the same stereotypes in jokes etc.

It's inherently different for black people and white people to make jokes involving black stereotypes. Look at Key & Peele, Pryor, Chappelle, or Chris Rock. They all make jokes that poke fun at black people's foibles, because they're not applying the joke to all black people. It's a lot harder for an outside commentator to make that distinction and a lot easier to come off as racist. Plus, even black comedians end up with white audiences who laugh at the jokes as if they ARE racist jokes.

 

[uncredited male]

Upon additional review I might hit it. Still on the fence about the one on the right.

 

[Blair]

Are you serious Wendy?

 

[Anton Sugar]

They know using "Thug Kitchen" as a name makes you think about black culture, and the site lives up to that. Therefore, this word must be well-known for meaning exactly that.

Maybe they're thinking "thug" in terms of an aggressive white dude who is parroting black culture. Much better, right?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Etymologically speaking, thug has nothing to do with black people, so there's that too.

Lots of words don't mean the things they originally meant, etymologically speaking.

Again, I don't get the thinking behind telling people an easily observable phenomenon hasn't been easily observed just because YOU don't do it, or because YOU think there MIGHT be a group of people of equal or even larger size (you don't know, but you think it's a good possibility) that ALSO (maybe) don't do it.

What's the point of that? It's a reminder that's not needed, nor is it asked for, because the people who are speaking about the racial coding in the word presently aren't trying to say there is no other interpretation of the word that exists. They're simply saying that in certain situations, it's fairly obvious that the word is being racially coded.

Maybe they're thinking "thug" in terms of an aggressive white dude who is parroting black culture. Much better, right?

Yeah, this is similar to when people used to argue that using the term "wigger" should be acceptable because it's making fun of white people, skating over the fact that the term is simply a portmanteau of the words "White" (or wanna-be) and "Nigger."

 

[Slayven]

Not even mad, just glad someone called them on their bullshit. "We got food blog, but there are millions of other food blogs outer there. How can we be different? Wait black people are always amusing, with the hip hop and raza ma taz. We can even joke about smoking the jazz cigarettes."

 

[RMI]

I grew up and lived in SoCal for 24 years. My brother sent me a link to thug kitchen a long time ago and at the time I assumed it was supposed to be a latino tough guy type of thing (I'm hipsanic, btw). I'm not sure I'm buying the criticism here.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

I guess the thug thing must be another American specific stereotype. Apart from that the language they use doesn't sound like something I would associate with African American.

The place I've read/"heard" language like that is............. the internet. Keyboard duders and dudettes who type like that but don't talk like they.

Also if people are saying thug is the polite way of saying the N-Bomb is John Cena The Professor of N-Bomb-A-Nomics?

 

[Mr. Hyde]

I like their recipes.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Also if people are saying thug is the polite way of saying the N-Bomb is John Cena The Professor of N-Bomb-A-Nomics?

John Cena's rapper character was racist (and homophobic) as fuck. I just assume anything Vince McMahon's into that has to do with race is racist. He wore a durag and said the n-word on live TV just because he could.

But also notice that Cena chose that word to reference a particular demographic and culture, so even pro wrestling knew the loaded implications of the term a decade ago.

 

[riotous]

If you want to see how bad they used to be, use the internet wayback machine.

Not sure if this link works:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121023080117/http://thugkitchen.com/

They mixed in way more ebonics.

If that doesn't work, just go to http://web.archive.org and type thugkitchen.com in, and use the calendar to go back to one of the October 2012 cache dates.

"Yo", "Yo,self", "Kid", "Son".. it's endless..

 

[Infinite]

John Cena's rapper character was racist as fuck. I just assume anything Vince McMahon's into that has to do with race is racist. He wore a durag and said the n-word on live TV just because he could.

But also notice that Cena chose that word to reference a particular demographic and culture, so even pro wrestling knew the loaded implications of the term a decade ago.

Remember Cryme Tyme?

 

[Mr. Hyde]

By the way, I am still sort of scratching my head at the fact that people are now having a freak out that they are white. Thug kitchen is a trendy vegan blog that never made me think it wasn't written by white people.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I suppose so. I just feel that intent matters and these people were just trying to add some edginess to their recipes while someone who calls Trayvon Martin a "thug who deserved xyz" is clearly angling for something else.

Thug Kitchen is not making social commentary, these people are just adding some cuss words to sandwiches and what not.

Well in this regard though, I think that you agree with the notion that it's "digital blackface". The reality is that they write a cooking blog which posts recipes you can find elsewhere, then add a point of differentiation by aping African American stereotypes. Of course there's no social commentary, Al Jolson wasn't making a statement either. They're both caricaturing stereotypes to entertain other people, while making themselves money.

At the very least, it's exploitative. At worst, it's a harmful propagation of racism.

 

[xbhaskarx]

This is modern day brownface, only Indians should be allowed to use the word thug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

 

[UrbanRats]

I know most of this discussion is about the word thug and its meaning in this context, but my question would be, even without that title, would this book/blog/thing be ok, using that kind of parody? Not even a rhetorical question.

 

[echoshifting]

If you want to see how bad they used to be, use the internet wayback machine.

Not sure if this link works:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121023080117/http://thugkitchen.com/

They mixed in way more ebonics.

If that doesn't work, just go to http://web.archive.org and type thugkitchen.com in, and use the calendar to go back to one of the October 2012 cache dates.

"Yo", "Yo,self", "Kid", "Son".. it's endless..

Yiiiiikes. I cringed hard. Damning stuff.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

here my question are there other sites like thug kitchen? I know digital blackface is ubiquitous but who are the semi internet celebrity ones? they should all be exposed.

 

[Infinite]

I know most of this discussion is about the word thug and its meaning in this context, but my question would be, even without that title, would this book/blog/thing be ok, using that kind of parody? Not even a rhetorical question.

I don't think it would be ok.

 

[computers putin']

That site is some poorly done satire holy fuck. Also,its funny to see so many people in this thread who are ignorant of the way thug can be used, when you can find several examples on neogaf alone.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Waaaaaait. People thought Thug Kitchen was written by black people? I always assumed it was written by white people. C'mon, all that talk about chick peas and lettuce and tofu? You really think a black person would write about veggies without showing their face?


smh