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[The Broken Ska Record]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

What if it requires working with Black or Jewish coworkers? If you fuck up, you deserve punishment. Plain and simple. It would be nice, and ideal, if she got a warning and was more accepting of other cultures, but that's not going to happen.

 

[-duskdoll-]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

Nobody wants to be around bigots, if you're not mature enough to respect other people then you're probably not mature enough to have a job.

 

[UnluckyKate]

What if it requires working with Black or Jewish coworkers? If you fuck up, you deserve punishment. Plain and simple. It would be nice, and ideal, if she got a warning and was more accepting of other cultures, but that's not going to happen.

yeah if she had black and jewish coworker and had these kinds of words to them, I don't see why she wouldn't be fired.

but if her being racist hurt no one in the company, can she really be fire for "just" being racist ? In my country she couldn't

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

yeah if she had black and jewish coworker and had these kinds of words to them, I don't see why she wouldn't be fired.

but if her being racist hurt no one in the company, can she really be fire for "just" being racist ? In my country she couldn't

So their company must be reactive as opposed to proactive? She may not have hurt someone now, but what about in a few months or years. If she said this in private, off the clock away from work, that's one thing. But saying it in a professional setting is silly.

 

[Korey]

yeah if she had black and jewish coworker and had these kinds of words to them, I don't see why she wouldn't be fired.

but if her being racist hurt no one in the company, can she really be fire for "just" being racist ? In my country she couldn't

It's deeply offensive and unprofessional. There's no requirement that there has to be black or Jewish people near her.

How difficult is this to understand?

 

[Volimar]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

Having a racist who has no problem vocalizing their racism working for you is a liability. Could lead to a lawsuit if she said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

 

[Log4Girlz]

yeah if she had black and jewish coworker and had these kinds of words to them, I don't see why she wouldn't be fired.

but if her being racist hurt no one in the company, can she really be fire for "just" being racist ? In my country she couldn't

You can be fired for being unprofessional.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

Yes, you can fire someone for being a prick. Unless they are a big money maker in the company, who wants to be around that?

You can definitely fire someone who is exposing you to a massive lawsuit.

 

[soepje]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

Pretty much. Give her a warning and send her to some course on how to behave properly at the work place. If she still doesn't know how to behave afterwards come with something stronger or fire her.

I bet there would be very few people left to do the work if all the ignorant and pricks where told to leave on their first offense.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Having a racist who has no problem vocalizing their racism working for you is a liability. Could lead to a lawsuit if she said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

Yes, you can fire someone for being a prick. Unless they are a big money maker in the company, who wants to be around that?

You can definitely fire someone who is exposing you to a massive lawsuit.

That's the thing I don't get. In france you don't sue like this we don't sue for money because the system doesn't work like that so you can't fire someone for being a racist. People will hate that person and avoid her and won't go on these subject but you won't be able to fire her for being a racist to avoid potential lawsuit.

I'm not defending her, I'm just having hard time beleiving how easily you can get fired in the US for being insensitive (or in this case, a huge racist prick) to someone

 

[TCRS]

good good. I'm all for giving people a second chance but such blatant shit in this day and age? I mean you have to go with the times at least a little.

 

[Log4Girlz]

That's the thing I don't get. In france you don't sue like this we don't sue for money because the system doesn't work like that so you can't fire someone for being a racist. People will hate that person and avoid her and won't go on these subject but you won't be able to fire her for being a racist to avoid potential lawsuit.

I'm not defending her, I'm just having hard time beleiving how easily you can get fired in the US for being insensitive (or in this case, a huge racist prick) to someone

And I'm having a hard time believing how you can be an insensitive racist prick and yet keep your job in France. That doesn't happen in the US unless you're rich.

 

[V_Arnold]

Sad thing about this story is that is she gets fired, you can be sure that she wont blame herself. We are not working like that. None of us are. Or, to be more precise, we only blame ourselves if we think that it is beneficiary in our continued existence.

No. She will blame "the blacks" and "the liberals". There is no easy way solving this.

 

[UnluckyKate]

And I'm having a hard time believing how you can be an insensitive racist prick and yet keep your job in France. That doesn't happen in the US unless you're rich.

no if france if you say something in the exact same condition you will get a big ass warning note. If the person keep doing racist rants, she will get another one. Then she can get fired for being unprofessional as she's not taking action even if she gets notified.

But you cant fired someone over one racist sentence reported by someone else to HR.

 

[bro1]

She won't get fired for this. At worse she will get a written warning but most likely it will be a verbal.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Me, her (lets call her L) and another coworker (lets call him R) were in a meeting. L is a 50 something from northern Michigan. After working for a bit, L started talking about her daughter. It was not unusual. You want to lighten the mood/pressure from work every now and then. Her daughter started dating someone from Europe. Me and R were like Good for her etc.

And then it comes, "My mom has two cardinal rules on dating: No blacks and and no Jews!". Me and R stare at each other with our eyes widened and mouh agape for a good 10 seconds. She thinks its funny and continues on "Hey you gotta be careful who you let in your family!" Now R is an indirect manager. He gets up and excuses himself out and informs the higher ups. I tell L she shouldnt say things like that, and that she is wrong when she groups people like that and think all of them are bad for her daughter. She says that as a parent she has a right over who her daughter is dating and she doesn't want "Jive talking guy from the south side (Chicago) hanging around with her daughter!". I tell her she shouldnt judge people like that and that its racist. She is oblivious to how screwed up she is, both mentally and job-wise.

Anyway, the HR are on it and I spoke to them.

Is this her first bad comment?

Does she do good work at your office?

Is she a new hire or have seniority?

I have so many questions besides the knee jerk opinion I initially had of "fire her".

 

[WoodWERD]

She won't get fired for this. At worse she will get a written warning but most likely it will be a verbal.

As a former corporate drone for 10 years, I'm going to agree with this. I was pretty close with all my old bosses, and each of them always made it seem like it was difficult to get rid of someone even in an 'at-will' state.

 

[CLEEK]

The most racist comment I've heard anyone say at work is during my first job straight out of Uni. I was in a small team, and one my my colleagues was a woman a little bit older then me. She was engaged, and as I found out quickly, her causal conversation revolved entirely around her wedding.

Anyway, one day she said that her and future hubby had originally looked into getting married abroad. She wanted to the wedding to be in the Caribbean, but said that her finance said "No, I don't want no nig nogs at my wedding". I didn't know what to say, so quickly changed the subject.

Now I'm older, I'd have said something, but back then I was still new to the whole working thing and shy and reserved.

 

[Cyd0nia]

I don't want to sound even remotely apologist for someone like this, however given she believed what she was saying was a 'joke' and given she must not have realised it would offend her audience, I do view it as less hateful and more treatable than other forms of racism. I'd actually be more in favour of sanctions that re-educate or rehabilitate her rather than straight up firing her. Suspension would make sense even.

Walking out of the room straight to HR might seem like the right thing but confronting abhorrent views head on, person to person, with reason, is better IMO. She could have been shamed in to an apology on the spot.

A lot of you may not care about her, because words, but losing a job is a horrible thing - particularly when you have a family to look after. Do you want to change the world or just punish the wicked? Because I'm not sure making people destitute does anything other than harden them (and their loved ones) against all forms of humanity, including the ones they're already prejudiced against.

 

[Messofanego]

I don't want to sound even remotely apologist for someone like this, however given she believed what she was saying was a 'joke' and given she must not have realised it would offend her audience, I do view it as less hateful and more treatable than other forms of racism. I'd actually be more in favour of sanctions that re-educate or rehabilitate her rather than straight up firing her. Suspension would make sense even.

Walking out of the room straight to HR might seem like the right thing but confronting abhorrent views head on, person to person, with reason, is better IMO. She could have been shamed in to an apology on the spot.

A lot of you may not care about her, because words, but losing a job is a horrible thing - particularly when you have a family to look after. Do you want to change the world or just punish the wicked? Because I'm not sure making people destitute does anything other than harden them (and their loved ones) against all forms of humanity, including the ones they're already prejudiced against.

That's what the OP RustyNails did.

Now R is an indirect manager. He gets up and excuses himself out and informs the higher ups. I tell L she shouldnt say things like that, and that she is wrong when she groups people like that and think all of them are bad for her daughter. She says that as a parent she has a right over who her daughter is dating and she doesn't want "Jive talking guy from the south side (Chicago) hanging around with her daughter!". I tell her she shouldnt judge people like that and that its racist. She is oblivious to how screwed up she is, both mentally and job-wise.

Anyway, the HR are on it and I spoke to them.

 

[KillGore]

I understand what she said was horrible but I don't think she should get fired for this, especially if she has a family. She should get punished though, but not by this degree.

Edit: I'm assuming it's the first time someone in your workplace heard her say that.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I understand what she said was horrible but I don't think she should get fired for this, especially if she has a family. She should get punished though, but not by this degree.

Edit: I'm assuming it's the first time someone in your workplace heard her say that.

With something like this, I think her age or her family is irrelevant more so than if she has worked at that office long enough, has any real power, or works with the group she holds those backwards opinions on, or even if she a recent hire.

 

[CLEEK]

It's the very definition of racism.

Maybe one could argue that it's reasonable racism?

It's not racism at all. Don't be daft.

Racism is prejudice against other races. What you're referring to is preference for specific races, most likely your own. Not the same at all. You can like one thing without being prejudice against the other things you don't like.

Preferring people who look like you is hard coded into us. Infants from the age of 3 months have shown clear racial bias in preferring people of their own race.

And it obviously not just physical differences, Cultural differences come into play. If you identify strongly with your own culture, you're far more likely to want to date within the same culture. Again, that's not prejudice, that's preference.

 

[freeofgreed]

Is this her first bad comment?

Does she do good work at your office?

Is she a new hire or have seniority?

I have so many questions besides the knee jerk opinion I initially had of "fire her".

Read the thread. All the questions you're asking have all ready been answered.

 

[emalord]

I'm really scared about people not having the right of free thought. And scared about people condamning other people ('s ignorance)

If I hear a person saying something not reflecting my thought I turn away and free my life from that person. Never for a second I would accuse him/her of not thinking the way I think.

Negating myself, my friendship and my respect to that person is the only thing I feel I can do. Accusing him of anything, would be the most selfish and arrogant thing I could do.

 

[2San]

no if france if you say something in the exact same condition you will get a big ass warning note. If the person keep doing racist rants, she will get another one. Then she can get fired for being unprofessional as she's not taking action even if she gets notified.

But you cant fired someone over one racist sentence reported by someone else to HR.

Well yeah, European countries tend to have more strict labour laws.

 

[freeofgreed]

I'm really scared about people not having the right of free thought. And scared about people condamning other people ('s ignorance)

If I hear a person saying something not reflecting my thought I turn away and free my life from that person. Never for a second I would accuse him/her of not thinking the way I think.

Negating myself, my friendship and my respect to that person is the only thing I feel I can do. Accusing him of anything, would be the most selfish and arrogant thing I could do.

And I'm really scared about all the people defending this lady. She can think whatever she wants but when she says something extremely ignorant like that, in front off a manager no less, she deserves to get fired and she'll have no sympathy from me.

 

[FourMyle]

Good

 

[Stronty]

Being from northern Michigan, I can even hear her say that.
We're pretty isolated and ignorant of the world up there.

It is a two way street, most of the world is ignorant of isolated rural places as well.

 

[Messofanego]

I'm really scared about people not having the right of free thought. And scared about people condamning other people ('s ignorance)

If I hear a person saying something not reflecting my thought I turn away and free my life from that person. Never for a second I would accuse him/her of not thinking the way I think.

Negating myself, my friendship and my respect to that person is the only thing I feel I can do. Accusing him of anything, would be the most selfish and arrogant thing I could do.

In case this bears repeating, freedom of speech protects you from the government, not from workplaces or companies that could find your speech costly. You are not free from criticism or consequences.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

And I'm really scared about all the people defending this lady. She can think whatever she wants but when she says something extremely ignorant like that, in front off a manager no less, she deserves to get fired and she'll have no sympathy from me.

No, you try to correct her behavior through training and only if she doesn't come around do you fire her.

Lots of older people in the workforce have opinions like that and still express them, you can't just fire them all at the first offense.

 

[Messofanego]

No, you try to correct her behavior through training and only if she doesn't come around do you fire her.

Lots of older people in the workforce have opinions like that and still express them, you can't just fire them all at the first offense.

I thought employers can, without any warning?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I thought employers can, without any warning?

Some, sure, but it would be a stupid thing to do in this situation.

 

[Timedog]

Some, sure, but it would be a stupid thing to do in this situation.

stupid, why?

 

[DoktorEvil]

Read the thread. All the questions you're asking have all ready been answered.

This is nuts. You know what's nuttier? Our direct boss is a Jew. L knows that as well.

I didn't rat her out. R informed the higher ups, and I just confirmed what happened. Do you rather I deny what she said?

She is a "nice" person in the sense that she gives presents to employees and stuff, and is generally personable. But when it comes to work she is horrible. She makes mistakes all the time, can't follow directions and I hate having to deal with her.

She is actually nice to everyone, including our Jewish boss. She chats it up with him from time to time. Like someone mentioned in the thread, she doesn't think what she is saying/doing is a mistake.

I'll keep you all posted on what happens on Monday. But yeah, it would be reallllly awkward for the rest of the office if she is let off with a warning. Everyone knows what happened in the meeting.

To be fair, I did not call up HR. I don't want to take the credit for R's actions. He was the one who immediately informed the higher ups, like, probably within 2-3 minutes of it happening. HR through their investigation reached me over the phone and I talked to them about it.

Ok.

One of my questions are answered though.

I still don't know if she's a new hire or recently entered the workforce. We also don't know what her job is or if she has any effect on the bottom line significantly. The executives at my office(who I interact with on a near daily basis) say much worse stuff, but it's a predominately macho, alpha male environment.

Having an awkward situation does not make her a bad person, but maybe bigoted or antiquated in her thoughts. If she doesn't affect the bottom line and does decent work(i didn't say incredible, I don't know what her job is), its costlier to pay for a new employee search than to let her off with a warning and some sensitivity training, as cliche as it sounds.

Knee jerk response is still to fire her, but additionally if she can be shifted to another location or another office and keeping her with people she can get along with, it becomes win-win and less of a liability for the company then outright firing her.

stupid, why?

See above. Outright firing her without proper cause (if this isn't an at will state) can result in significant liability.

 

[Javaman]

To be fair, I did not call up HR. I don't want to take the credit for R's actions. He was the one who immediately informed the higher ups, like, probably within 2-3 minutes of it happening. HR through their investigation reached me over the phone and I talked to them about it.

So who told all of your coworkers about it? You said that everyone in the office knows what she said.

 

[The Purple Pill]

So, people get fired in the US for saying bad jokes, now?

Wow, terrible place to be. People get offended by the smallest things these days, not to mention being quick about ruining other people's lives because of it, the hypocrisy in on itself, is quite amazing.

 

[norinrad]

Congrats, you showed that 50 year old bigot what's up. The fact that she will have to eat cat food later in life due to this should make her change her ways.

OP didn't go to HR, his colleague did and op was asked what happened. Did you wanted him to lie and brush things off as if nothing happened? Yeah that would be good for his future within the company and future references.

 

[Stet]

So, people get fired in the US for saying bad jokes, now?

Wow, terrible place to be. People get offended by the smallest things these days, not to mention being quick about ruining other people's lives because of it, the hypocrisy in on itself, is quite amazing.

"It was a joke!" doesn't usually hold up to scrutiny. But in this case, I'm glad to be part of a world that's offended by what she said.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Michigan is an "at-will" state.

 

[Schweinehund]

It's pretty racist and she sounds like an ignorant for sure

but

why does she need to be fired for that ? I mean, if she's not sucking at her job and if her position doesn't require working in public (representing the company) or dealing with black/jew customers ?

can you fire someone for being a prick ?

should you ?

Sounds like her behavior is making her co workers uneasy, that's enough to atleast consider a warning.

The goal should always be to rehabilitate though. Firing her seems like it will most likely reinforce her views on race, giving credit to a "us vs them" attitude. I'm more of a give a chance first, then punish after refusal to change kind of guy.

 

[The Return of]

I just love fucking females and having thoughts about their parents not accepting me being with her, makes it much more satisfying

 

[SporeCrawler]

i dont agree to any racism. that being said you are entitled to your opinion. the conversation seems to be more in the private realm, even if it happened at the workplace. i dont know if this would really constitute a reason to fire someone.

 

[Javaman]

Sounds like a pretty shitty place to work all over. Racist workers, people ready to rat others out at a moment's notice, coworkers who gossip everything their peers say.

 

[Kurdel]

So much defense for such a vile comment, I didn't see this coming.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I just love fucking females and having thoughts about their parents not accepting me being with her, makes it much more satisfying

Haha I love you.

 

[Calvert]

Every day my boss used to come into work calling us fags and the n word.
They're just words people...

 

[Winterfang]

I just love fucking females and having thoughts about their parents not accepting me being with her, makes it much more satisfying

That's disturbing. Is it like a fetish?

 

[Order]

So, people get fired in the US for saying bad jokes, now?

Wow, terrible place to be. People get offended by the smallest things these days, not to mention being quick about ruining other people's lives because of it, the hypocrisy in on itself, is quite amazing.

Fuck outta here with that bullshit. "People get fired for racism? OH THE HUMANITY!"

I like how no one cares how uncomfortable the people working with a racist feel, but instead jump to defend her,

 

[Kurdel]

That's disturbing. Is it like a fetish?

The use of the word "Females" is also super classy.