Cosplayer being labeled ‘Racist’ for her blackface Michonne From ‘The Walking Dead'

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just couldn't see what was so offensive about her makeup.

These people need something worthy to occupy their heads. What a unjustified hate...
 
I think intent matters. So I don't think she's racist or trying to be racist. But black face has a long history to it tied to racism and oppression. So I think it's insensitive given that history behind it.

I guess I'm just not sure about this with regards to Cosplay. But if people are telling her it's offensive and hurts...
 
Painted skin black, dreds, actual nose makeup to look more like the character??

She really went all out in her costume and (from her words) tried to be as respectful as possible.

There's a difference between:

image5494774x.jpg


And

michonne-cosplay.jpg



Sure she would have been better off in public eyes by just wearing dreds with the costume but she made her choice and sticking with it. That also doesn't exclude her from any criticisms seeing the history behind 'black face'.

Interesting debate for both sides.
 
Haven't heard a good one yet, honestly. Is it so wrong to ask people to not react quick and irrationally about this? Don't allow knee-jerk reactions to stop you from thinking about it further.
I find it disgusting that you are calling people who are offended by something that is long known to be offensive irrational and having a knee jerk reaction.

You clearly haven't thought your argument through and it shows.
 
Even if she didn't know the history, she does now, and she's still planning to go through with it. That's malicious.

Nah, I think she's being rebellious. She got lambasted by social media for being a racist, and now she's defensive. It's hard for people to admit they're wrong, and even harder when you have the spot light shone on them. You can see this when she calls other people 'haters', and states that she's going to stick to her own guns.
 
All those minstrel actors were intending to look like characters too. Just because she is copying a character does not keep the act from being racist.
Jesus, why do people keep comparing this to 1920s material? Those were intent to avoid hiring black actors and make heavy black stereotypes. She is doing neither.
 
You caught me, I don't have any data on this one. Gotcha!

You're either being a contrarian, or you're lacking in a general understanding of how the black community feels about whites reviving racist vestiges of history for entertainment purposes.

Which?

Is that what you think she's doing? Really?
 
Oh, ok. Weird.

But seriously I don't fault you for not getting it but you are super offensive by saying white people hardly experience racism. Just take a quick look outside the US to see how ignorant that is.

Taking a look out the window right now. Yep, white supremacy is still alive and well.
 
You caught me, I don't have any data on this one. Gotcha!

You're either being a contrarian, or you're lacking in a general understanding of how the black community feels about whites reviving racist vestiges of history for entertainment purposes.

Which?

What is the 'black community'?
 
This person thought the skin tone was an important enough aspect of the character to paint her own face black. Whatever her intent, it reflects a racist value. I'm sure there are cosplayers who strive for absolute accuracy and skin color does not even come to mind.
Err, no ? it pretty much only reflect that she think it's just as much part of a person aspect as eyes color.
 
Isn't the point of cosplay a sort of performance art? If someone drew a picture or a sculpture of a a person who isn't their own race would that be considered offensive? If you consider the aim of these dedicated cosplayers is to use their own body as a canvas and her intention is to reproduce a character as accurately as possible it doesn't sound that malicious.

Here is what really confuses me. I fully understand that many things have historical connotations associated with them and I can also understand why people would be hurt by the actions of others who do not think through what these connotation are. What confuses me is this insistence on creating this black/white divide. The point is that there aren't two kinds of people each of which has a different skin colour but all over the planet there is one, single type of person, a human being. That's it. There rest are just adjectives to describe and differentiate between different manifestations of the exact same type of person.

Now I'm not claiming racism and racist connotations aren't still common and prevalent in today's society, (I'm actually still fuming inside from a horrible encounter with a blatant racist I had the displeasure of meeting last weekend) but I find that people are looking at a costume and reducing it to a skin colour rather than looking at it as a portrayal of a character. The fact that people are classifying what people can or cannot do based on skin colour (i.e. a person of your skin colour shouldn't be allowed to change skin colour to match another person which has a different skin colour than you) means that at the end of it all people are still being labelled and grouped differently because of a feature.

What I'm failing to say in many words is that basically I find it confusing that since I consider all human beings to be exactly the same, and skin colour is nothing more than a simple, meaningless feature (in the context of humanity not, unfortunately, in socio-economic issues) then in the same manner as the costume would've been acceptable if she hadn't coloured her skin, it should also be acceptable to do so because it's one of the features of a particular character if the 'artist' was striving for accuracy.

Conversely, if someone puts on a poncho and a sombrero and calls himself 'a mexican' or blackens his face and goes as 'some black guy' then that's reducing a human being to just a set of features then that's obviously and blatantly racist.
 
I find it disgusting that you are calling people who are offend by something that is long known to be offensive irrational and having a knee jerk reaction.

You clearly haven't thought your argument through and it shows.
It is a knee jerk reaction to equate her make up to century-old blackface. It's not a logical connection. the only similarity is that both darken their skin, and even that is different. She doesn't make her skin actually black, a normal brown shade. That is literally the only similarity. Darkening skin. Think how many things you do that share a slight similarity to awful things. Is it fair to act like you're doing the awful thing too?
 
How is it progressive blackface? And your post is coming off like you're upset a black person isn't offended by this.
Progressive blackface should be an obvious joke - like, she's not being outright disgustingly racist in her action. Its "good" blackface. The best kind of ignorance. One solid step from being okay and too many and far enough away from the immediately abrasive kind.

Progressive

And I'm not upset so much as I feel the need to vocally roll my eyes when I see people lead off with " as a black person, I carry THIS uncommon opinion" while every black should know right out the gate that the world loves seeing us all as one in the same regardless.
 
so just painting your face black, regardless of intentions is racist?

Thats a bunch of bullshit. Blackface is a specific style of painting your face black with the sole purpose of mocking and disparaging black people.

What she did is perfectly fine and I think anyone that has a problem is being too politically correct.

Honestly, it's one of those facts of life that are incredibly unfair but an unfortunate reality.

Similar to how blacks have to give their kids "white" names out of fear that they'll likely be prejudged on applications. Or how blacks suffer from housing discrimination. Or blacks being underrepresented within most forms of media, and stereotypically represented in what little media representation they do receive. Or being underrepresented within a plethora of professions. Or being paid less for doing the same job. Or being profiled by authorities. Or being profiled while walking through a store. Or receiving harsher sentences for doing the same crimes as everyone else. Or having to subscribe to European standards of beauty due to the fact their own is labeled as inferior and ugly. Or having to corrupt their children's childish innocence at a young to explain to them the realities of their skin color within the society that they inhabit. Or to stay on topic, being told what we can and cannot be offended by, and constantly having everything we attempt to flag as an act of overt PCness.

So yes, blackface in any form is likely going to be taboo - and those who utilize it are likely going to be criticized. That's just the society we live in unfortunately, and you're free to complain about it - but in the mean time - you're just going to have to suck it up and live with it.
 
it's really well done

but it's still blackface

i don't really think she deserves to be raked over the coals for it though. it was ignorant and pretty stupid, but i think it came out of genuine affection for the character rather than "haha i'm black now"
 
What I'm failing to say in many words is that basically I find it confusing that since I consider all human beings to be exactly the same, and skin colour is nothing more than a simple, meaningless feature (in the context of humanity not, unfortunately, in socio-economic issues) then in the same manner as the costume would've been acceptable if she hadn't coloured her skin, it should also be acceptable to do so because it's one of the features of a particular character if the 'artist' was striving for accuracy.
That's nice, but burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context and prejudice doesn't mean that the problem magically goes away. It's a Pollyanna construct that has no basis in reality. It would be nice if everyone had the attitude that people are all the same. It really, really would.
 
is this blackface enough or is she just trying to emulate a popular and much beloved rapper? can i get a scale on what is and isn't blackface over here so i'm not too politically correct for you

image5494774x.jpg
of course its blackface, you can tell by the style of lips she did. Which directly match any blackface google search you do.
 
Progressive blackface should be an obvious joke - like, she's not being outright disgustingly racist in her action. Its "good" blackface. The best kind of ignorance. One solid step from being okay and too many and far enough away from the immediately abrasive kind.

Progressive

And I'm not upset so much as I feel the need to vocally roll my eyes when I see people lead off with " as a black person, I carry THIS uncommon opinion" while every black should know right out the gate that the world loves seeing us all as one in the same regardless.
What if a white person cosplays as James Brown and nails it perfectly. I mean, it's so good you would think he's the real James Brown at first glance. lets say this guy even has the dancing and singing spot on too. Is this guy offensive?
 
I don't think it's racist, she was trying to faithfully recreate the character, but I could see why it would rile some people up given the history of blackface. It wasn't really the smartest thing to do in any case.

I do wonder if people would be accusing her of white washing the character had she recreated it without the blackface though.
 
This shit is out of control.


Dear White People,

Stop using makeup to look like other races. Yes, it's always racist, and yes, it only applies to white people. "But that's a double standard"! Yes it is, just like segregated housing. Now kindly put the makeup kit down.

Sincerely,

Everyone else.
 
What if a white person cosplays as James Brown and nails it perfectly. I mean, it's so good you would think he's the real James Brown at first glance. lets say this guy even has the dancing and singing spot on too. Is this guy offensive?

In the magical land where this is possible, there is and never was any racism
 
Jesus, why do people keep comparing this to 1920s material? Those were intent to avoid hiring black actors and make heavy black stereotypes. She is doing neither.

We compare it to older material because that is the cultural reference that we, in western society, have towards this specific behavior.

That nose is a black stereotype. It looks nothing like the actress nose, and it is shaped to look like a bantu stereotypical nose.
 
What if a white person cosplays as James Brown and nails it perfectly. I mean, it's so good you would think he's the real James Brown at first glance. lets say this guy even has the dancing and singing spot on too. Is this guy offensive?
There are tons of things that would be just fine if you ignored historical context and lingering social issues.

But we don't live on that planet.
 
That's nice, but burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context and prejudice doesn't mean that the problem magically goes away. It's a Pollyanna construct that has no basis in reality. It would be nice if everyone had the attitude that people are all the same. It really, really would.
Can't it be argued that ignoring the difference between century old black face and what this girl is doing is burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context as well?
 
Taking a look out the window right now. Yep, white supremacy is still alive and well.
Ahh, that's too bad. And here I thought that if you I tell you that you might offend people you would think about for a second. Instead you gave me snark.
I and probably almost every person who lives as a foreigner anywhere in Europe faced or faces plenty of Racism. Jews had some problems with Racism. Arabs, Turks, Gypsies the list goes on. But hey, it doesn't fit your argument I get it.
 
Jesus, why do people keep comparing this to 1920s material? Those were intent to avoid hiring black actors and make heavy black stereotypes. She is doing neither.
Can't it be argued that ignoring the difference between century old black face and what this girl is doing is burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context as well?
History matters. To state otherwise is willful ignorance.
 
Bullshit. There's blackface and there's dressing up in a costume. We should be advanced enough to differentiate those nuances.
 

It's a legitimate question. I've had white people pull the whole "you're so well spoken, and you listen to real music! Not like the other ones." and it's taken me a long time to shut that shit down in my friends.

Now I'm getting flack from blacks saying that I'm not really black because I don't agree with what they say.

Am I allowed to be black without others' approval, or do I have to lockstep with a specific group to gain an identity?
 
It is a knee jerk reaction to equate her make up to century-old blackface. It's not a logical connection. the only similarity is that both darken their skin, and even that is different. She doesn't make her skin actually black, a normal brown shade. That is literally the only similarity. Darkening skin. Think how many things you do that share a slight similarity to awful things. Is it fair to act like you're doing the awful thing too?
Your comparison falls flat because dressing up in blackface is not something white people just commonly do everyday in the US.

By you saying 'slight similarity' you are trying to lessen the offensive nature of blackface by making it appear to be something relatively minor. It isn't. Blackface is a disgusting thing and I think less of the people that think it is something worth defending.

Stop defending racism and ignorance.
 
There are tons of things that would be just fine if you ignored historical context and lingering social issues.

But we don't live on that planet.
So I take it, yes you find that person's cosplay to be offensive. Why? What if he is just a huge James Brown fan? What if he was inspired by him? I would take a guy who works so hard to sing, dance, and look exactly like James Brown as a guy who takes it pretty seriously. So why is it offensive? Is it simply "Sorry, history says it's automatically offensive" to you? Would you tell the guy that because he is white, he cannot do a perfect portrayal of James Brown, but black people can?
 
Can't it be argued that ignoring the difference between century old black face and what this girl is doing is burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context as well?
Because racism is over, people should let it slide? These are hardly far removed issues.

Come on man. Like this and nearly every other thread, it isn't the actual action that irks people but the Olympic level mental gymnastics that go into trying to make the clear and obvious ignorance at work "okay".
 
It's a legitimate question. I've had white people pull the whole "you're so well spoken, and you listen to real music! Not like the other ones." and it's taken me a long time to shut that shit down in my friends.

Now I'm getting flack from blacks saying that I'm not really black because I don't agree with what they say.

Am I allowed to be black without others' approval, or do I have to lockstep with a specific group to gain an identity?

No, there is no such thing as a "black" opinion, the notion of a race-wide thought is pretty bizarre imho.
 
Your comparison falls flat because dressing up in blackface is not something white people just commonly do everyday in the US.

By you saying 'slight similarity' you are trying to lessen the offensive nature of blackface by making it appear to be something relatively minor. It isn't. Blackface is a disgusting thing and I think less of the people that think it is something worth defending.

Stop defending racism and ignorance.

Blackface is disgusting. You're looking at it completely out of context for what it is though.
 
Can't it be argued that ignoring the difference between century old black face and what this girl is doing is burying one's head in the sand regarding historical context as well?

you're doing a good job of it by ignoring the continued evolution of what blackface is and modern day examples of it
 
It's a legitimate question. I've had white people pull the whole "you're so well spoken, and you listen to real music! Not like the other ones." and it's taken me a long time to shut that shit down in my friends.

Now I'm getting flack from blacks saying that I'm not really black because I don't agree with what they say.

Am I allowed to be black without others' approval, or do I have to lockstep with a specific group to gain an identity?

Whereabouts you from homey?
 
Your comparison falls flat because dressing up in blackface is not something white people just commonly do everyday in the US.

By you saying 'slight similarity' you are trying to lessen the offensive nature of blackface by making it appear to be something relatively minor. It isn't. Blackface is a disgusting thing and I think less of the people that think it is something worth defending.

Stop defending racism and ignorance.
None of what you said makes sense. Who cares how often cosplaying as black people happens? That has no meaning here. And it is 100% true that the only similarity between her cosplay and blackface is she darkened her skin, and much less than real blackface. I'm stating a truth here. The fact that that true statement disjointed her actions from blackface means you shouldn't treat her actions like blackface.
 
Ahh, that's too bad. And here I thought that if you I tell you that you might offend people you would think about for a second. Instead you gave me snark.
I and probably almost every person who lives as a foreigner anywhere in Europe faced or faces plenty of Racism. Jews had some problems with Racism. Arabs, Turks, Gypsies the list goes on. But hey, it doesn't fit your argument I get it.

White people worldwide do not experience white supremacy at all, period. Doesn't happen. Globally, they experience racism on a small fraction of the level non-whites in white countries do. Compared to what non-whites experience, I think "hardly" is the write choice of words.

What does this have to do with blackface anyway?
 
I really don't see how this is offensive and probably never will. She cosplayed a black character and made her face black?!?
When I was a kid I always played the black Star Singer and my mother made me black in the face. So I cosplayed a black as a kid, nobody was ever offended.
 
Not ignoring it at all. The modern picture posted earlier contradicts nothing that I said.

None of what you said makes sense. Who cares how often cosplaying as black people happens? That has no meaning here. And it is 100% true that the only similarity between her cosplay and blackface is she darkened her skin, and much less than real blackface. I'm stating a truth here. The fact that that true statement disjointed her actions from blackface means you shouldn't treat her actions like blackface.

"it's not blackface because it's not charcoal black"
 
Because racism is over, people should let it slide? These are hardly far removed issues.

Come on man. Like this and nearly every other thread, it isn't the actual action that irks people but the Olympic level mental gymnastics that go into trying to make the clear and obvious ignorance at work "okay".
No, that's not what I said at all. I don't get how this is being missed so badly. People here are ignoring that she isn't making a racial stereotype and she's not impeding black actors/cosplayers in any way. This is the ignored historical context I am talking about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom