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[Malyse]

Well..this place got retro. Trayvon still can't rest in peace..poor little fella/*thug..

Spoiler

*Edited for accuracy?

You just made me wish that the ghosts of the unjustly slain would come back to haunt their murderers at the end of this month.

 

[Coins]

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/20/former-police-chief-speaks-on-latest-michael-brown-information-released/

Information about the Michael Brown fatal police shooting is beginning to leak out, and former St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch says it’s no accident the feds are allowing the information.

Fitch discussed a New York Times article indicating, according to federal investigators, there was a struggle that led up to the fatal police shooting of Brown, with KMOX’s Mark Reardon on Monday.

Fitch calls the information from the investigation coming out as phase two – to “coordinate leaks to the media, and to start getting some of the facts out there to kind of let people down slowly,” he says. “When I say this is phase two – phase one was really Eric Holder’s announcement how they were going to basically do a complete review and take over the Ferguson Police Department.”

Fitch says he thinks the feds recognize that it’s “probably very unlikely” that there’s going to be charges against Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

The article discusses the reasons why more in depth.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/20/former-police-chief-speaks-on-latest-michael-brown-information-released/



The article discusses the reasons why more in depth.

Probably will make things worse than just having it come in all at once with a double whammy of no bill and no civil rights charges.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

He's not going to be charged because the prosecutor isn't doing his fucking job. That's the only reason.

 

[Brakke]

This is kind of bananas, I had no idea:

"we know that about half the officers killed every year with firearms are killed with their own,” [former St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch] says. “So the fact that he didn’t have his own doesn’t mean there wasn’t a weapon there available that could be used in deadly force use.”

That's wild. Maybe we shouldn't be giving every cop a gun at all times if they've demonstrated an inability to control said gun. Secure that shit, put a safety on 'em, somethin'.

Problem of course being "if Michael Brown was truly turned around and basically charging the officer". Well yeah. That's some kind of "if" though.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Wilson fired the first shot through the window after he'd grabbed Brown. He may have hit him there.

That really makes no sense.

Why would he grab him then try and shoot him? If shooting the kid was the end goal why would he engage in a fistfight 1st? He could of just shot him outside the car.

IDK I see this going exactly like the zimmerman trail. Evidence is going to come out that the officer was in fact attacked, but people are going to try and say it wasn't life threatening or the officer instigated the event. Or that brown was suddenly 100% complaint and surrendering when the last shot was fired.

I don't agree that punch a cop in the face = death sentence, but honestly you are playing with your life assaulting a cop.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Nobody is saying that there wasn't an altercation at the car. Brown could have beat the shit out of him but if he was shot while surrendering it's still murder. The most important question is "Did Wilson shoot Brown while he was surrendering?" Which is backed up by all the evidence that we know right now.


If the prosecutor was doing his job if he would asked the GJ that question and then showed the evidence that backed it up. They would have had the probable cause to charge Wilson and take this to court. The way he handled this case was to make sure that Wilson wasn't charged.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Nobody is saying that there wasn't an altercation at the car. Brown could have beat the shit out of him but if he was shot while surrendering it's still murder. The most important question is "Did Wilson shoot Brown while he was surrendering?" Which is backed up by all the evidence that we know right now.


If the prosecutor was doing his job if he would asked the GJ that question and then showed the evidence that backed it up. They would have had the probable cause to charge Wilson and take this to court. The way he handled this case was to make sure that Wilson wasn't charged.

Thank you for this. People keep focusing on the car situation as if that's the crux of this case, and it isn't. I don't know exactly what happened in the car, but I do know that six or more eyewittnesses have said that Michael Brown was surrendering after he had been shot at least twice, and was executed in the process of surrender.

The prosecutor is a joke, the police chief is a joke, the Ferguson Police are a joke, St. Louis County police are a joke, America's police worship is a fucking joke, and another dead black kid doesn't matter to anybody. Business as usual, and nothing will ever change.

 

[Version 3.0]

That really makes no sense.

Why would he grab him then try and shoot him? If shooting the kid was the end goal why would he engage in a fistfight 1st? He could of just shot him outside the car.

I think you're missing a step. It's very unlikely that "shooting the kid was the end goal". That's absurd. The start and end points of this are not in dispute. Here's what we know for absolute certain:

1. Wilson tells Johnson and Brown and to get off the street.
2. Wilson shoots and kills Michael Brown.

This was clearly a situation that escalated remarkably fast.

So...why would he grab him, and then try to shoot him? The same reason any fight escalates. The person losing the fight escalates it.

 

[Brakke]

This shit is straight up sickening.

http://qz.com/284383/i-am-darren-wilson-st-louis-and-the-geography-of-fear/

On Oct. 10-13, St. Louis hosted a “Weekend of Resistance,” during which thousands of activists descended upon the city in support of Michael Brown and his family. That same weekend in St. Charles, supporters of Darren Wilson held a bowling night to support Wilson’s defense fund. They announced the event on a Darren Wilson Facebook support group with over 80,000 members. It is one of many Wilson support groups with membership in the tens of thousands.

One Wilson supporter, a lifelong North County resident who is white and asked to remain anonymous, explained his perspective in an email:

“Demanding Wilson’s arrest before that process is completed is akin to a lynch mob and would circumvent our sacred process of actual justice. All the racist chants, death threats, harassment, interruption of travel and commerce and general terror have become an insurrection and must be stopped… Interrupting commerce and disrupting normal working citizen’s lives is not what the founders had in mind when our right to protest was protected. They also didn’t envision mobs of people screaming racist vile [sic] and chanting death threats against our police.”

"normal working citizens" "general terror" "insurrection". Who the hell are these people.

“We support Darren, a law enforcement officer,” explains Tiffany (who asked to be identified by her first name only out of fear for her personal safety), the organizer of the Facebook page “I Support Darren Wilson,” which has over 76,000 followers. “We support the men and women, of all ethnic backgrounds, that have worked countless hours to keep the peace as much as possible in and around Ferguson and St. Louis.

“I would argue that calling me racist because I support law enforcement is a racial slur itself,” she continues. “How do you lump me and our supporters on this page into one giant ‘racial pool’ yet be mad that you think people are calling you a thug because your skin color is darker than mine? Yes, we have had struggles in the past with racism. But it is 2014. Why are people so hell-bent on staying in the past? Let’s move forward. Let’s educate each other.”

Tiffany, like many Wilson supporters, lives not in St. Louis but “a couple hours out.”

I threw up there. Carpetbagger and everything god damn.

Halfway through the Oct. 7 meeting, a white St. Louis resident shouted “We support Darren Wilson!” At previous meetings, this resident had called protesters “crazies” and Captain Ron Johnson, the officer overseeing Ferguson policing until recently, “Mr. Hug-a-Thug.” The protesters in the audience shouted back, clapping and stomping: “If we don’t get it, shut it down!”—a common refrain indicating protesters’ refusal to accept a non-indictment in the Wilson case and police brutality toward blacks in general.

Police guarding the meeting asked the predominantly black protesters to leave, then followed them down the escalator and locked them out of the building. The white Wilson supporter was allowed to stay.

Those wily blacks always making a thing racial when it isn't. I just can't fathom the tribalism on display here. This whole "I am Darren Wilson" solidarity thing is beyond the pale.

The same reason any fight escalates. The person losing the fight escalates it.

This is not a useful model for human behavior it's just something you pulled out of your ass.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Nobody is saying that there wasn't an altercation at the car. Brown could have beat the shit out of him but if he was shot while surrendering it's still murder. The most important question is "Did Wilson shoot Brown while he was surrendering?" Which is backed up by all the evidence that we know right now.


If the prosecutor was doing his job if he would asked the GJ that question and then showed the evidence that backed it up. They would have had the probable cause to charge Wilson and take this to court. The way he handled this case was to make sure that Wilson wasn't charged.

Yup.

My assumption is that Wilson was belligerent with Brown, Brown resisted arrest, Brown may or may not have reached for the gun but it went off in the struggle, Brown ran, more shots fired at him, he turned to surrender, and was gunned down.

The altercation doesn't really matter at this point. Cops don't shoot at fleeing suspects. Cops don't shoot at surrendering suspects.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Nobody is saying that there wasn't an altercation at the car. Brown could have beat the shit out of him but if he was shot while surrendering it's still murder. The most important question is "Did Wilson shoot Brown while he was surrendering?" Which is backed up by all the evidence that we know right now.


If the prosecutor was doing his job if he would asked the GJ that question and then showed the evidence that backed it up. They would have had the probable cause to charge Wilson and take this to court. The way he handled this case was to make sure that Wilson wasn't charged.

I don't think the law agrees. It leaves the determination mostly up to the officer. If Wilson reasonably believes Brown is a dangerous felon he is authorized to use deadly force.

You say he was surrendering but IDK what legal standards are for that, You can't go assaulting people then just put your hands up and go "time out!"

Its pretty clear to me at least a reasonable standard for deadly force was reached at some point, the debate is how that force level ratchets down, I'm not sure there are clear guidelines in place for officers. You still have to rely on the officers feelings of Brown still being a threat to himself or others, eyewitnesses can say that they didn't perceive he was threatening the officer at that point but its more down to his judgment.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I don't think the law agrees. It leaves the determination mostly up to the officer. If Wilson reasonably believes Brown is a dangerous felon he is authorized to use deadly force.

Cops don't get to suspend habeas corpus

You say he was surrendering but IDK what legal standards are for that, You can't go assaulting people then just put your hands up and go "time out!"

No, this is certainly the case. If someone assaults you and surrenders you don't get to pull out your gun and execute them.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Cops don't get to suspend habeas corpus



No, this is certainly the case. If someone assaults you and surrenders you don't get to pull out your gun and execute them.

I certainly can if I don't believe their surrender is sincere and they are trying to catch me off guard to do further harm.

The leaks have already pretty much confirmed the officers story is going to be that Brown turned and was coming back at the officer.

IDK if there will ever be physical evidence either way, cops are usually given the benefit of the doubt in court.

Long story short I don't think he is getting charged.

 

[captive]

I don't think the law agrees. It leaves the determination mostly up to the officer. If Wilson reasonably believes Brown is a dangerous felon he is authorized to use deadly force.

You say he was surrendering but IDK what legal standards are for that, You can't go assaulting people then just put your hands up and go "time out!"

Its pretty clear to me at least a reasonable standard for deadly force was reached at some point, the debate is how that force level ratchets down, I'm not sure there are clear guidelines in place for officers. You still have to rely on the officers feelings of Brown still being a threat to himself or others, eyewitnesses can say that they didn't perceive he was threatening the officer at that point but its more down to his judgment.

what if the guy is more than 30 feet away from you with his back turned?

 

[CrimsonCommie]

I certainly can if I don't believe their surrender is sincere and they are trying to catch me off guard to do further harm.

The leaks have already pretty much confirmed the officers story is going to be that Brown turned and was coming back at the officer.

IDK if there will ever be physical evidence either way, cops are usually given the benefit of the doubt in court.

Long story short I don't think he is getting charged.

Yeah the unarmed and injured, he was just shot, man was faking surrender so he could charge the armed cop that just shot him. That makes a lot of sense!

He's not getting charged because the prosecutor isn't doing his job not because there isn't evidence.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Yeah the unarmed and injured, he was just shot, man was faking surrender so he could charge the armed cop that just shot him. That makes a lot of sense!

He's not getting charged because the prosecutor isn't doing his job not because there isn't evidence.

Is the FBI also not doing their job?

IDK how you think the prosecutor could get away with being totally incompetent with everyone looking at this case so hard.

edit: I am curious have you ever been chased by the police? Adrenaline is real and fight/flight is real. People do stupid shit when panic takes over. Believe me

 

[Maxim726X]

I never saw the ballistics report... What did they conclude?

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Is the FBI also not doing their job?

IDK how you think the prosecutor could get away with being totally incompetent with everyone looking at this case so hard.

The FBI is doing a civil rights investigation.


Instead of presenting the charges and then presenting the evidence to support those charges he's just throwing all the evidence at them and telling them to figure it out theirselves. It's very easy to get an indictment from a GJ but it's clear that's not what he's trying to do. You should really look into information about how grand jury's work.

 

[Flo_Evans]

The FBI is doing a civil rights investigation.


Look up how most GJs work. Instead of presenting the charges and then presenting the evidence to support those charges he's just throwing all the evidence at them and telling them to figure it out theirselves. It's very easy to get an indictment from a GJ but it's clear that's not what he's trying to do. You should really look into information how grand jury's work.

Did you ever consider having seen the evidence and hearing all the testimony maybe he doesn't believe charges are warranted?

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Did you ever consider having seen the evidence and hearing all the testimony maybe he doesn't believe charges are warranted?

Then the case wouldn't have gone to the GJ.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Then the case wouldn't have gone to the GJ.

Prosecutors use grand juries for cover all the time to dump cases they don't believe should be prosecuted but are too afraid to make the call themselves.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Then the case wouldn't have gone to the GJ.

This is not really uncommon. Its basically passing the buck to the grand jury because he thinks it would be politically bad to do nothing at all.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I certainly can if I don't believe their surrender is sincere and they are trying to catch me off guard to do further harm.

The leaks have already pretty much confirmed the officers story is going to be that Brown turned and was coming back at the officer.

The officers story is completely unbelievable and it should throw any one who believes him motives into question. Why the hell would an already shot Mike Brown that is running for his life turn around after a police officer shot him then proceed to charge the officer it makes no sense. Unless you do not believe the many witness who said he was surrendering.

Anyway I still think Wilson will not be indicted not because he is not guilty but because the system is broken and cops get too much leeway when it comes to executing citizens. The only justice the parents of mike brown will ever see is from a civil lawsuit that they will probably file against officer Wilson and the entire city of st louis. That money though will never bring their son back.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Prosecutors use grand juries for cover all the time to dump cases they don't believe should be prosecuted but are too afraid to make the call themselves.

This is not really uncommon. Its basically passing the buck to the grand jury because he thinks it would be politically bad to do nothing at all.

Yeah I know. That was kinda my point. Unless there is some key piece of evidence that somehow discredits all of the witnesses that we have heard so far then there is plenty of probable cause to charge Wilson and if there was do you really think they wouldn't have released that evidence after how they've handled the case so far? The prosecutor just wants to blame it on the GJ when there aren't charges but he decided a long time ago that he didn't want to charge Wilson. This is a case that should go to court. A person that isn't a cop would have been charged months ago if there were multiple witnesses claiming he shot a surrendering person.

 

[Flo_Evans]

The officers story is completely unbelievable and it should throw any one who believes him motives into question. Why the hell would an already shot Mike Brown that is running for his life turn around after a police officer shot him then proceed to charge the officer it makes no sense. Unless you do not believe the many witness who said he was surrendering.

Anyway I still think Wilson will not be indicted not because he is not guilty but because the system is broken and cops get too much leeway when it comes to executing citizens. The only justice the parents of mike brown will ever see is from a civil lawsuit that they will probably file against officer Wilson and the entire city of st louis. That money though will never bring their son back.

I think in a high stress situation "surrendering" and "lunging" are not clear enough for a conviction either way.

Its going to come down to who is more believable on the witness stand and trust me, jurors from my experience side with cops over black people. 2x for a cop with a black eye (or whatever his injuries end up being)

Again cameras. Could have solved this months ago.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I certainly can if I don't believe their surrender is sincere and they are trying to catch me off guard to do further harm.

No, no you can't.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

No, no you can't.

Let's be real..

 

[Flo_Evans]

No, no you can't.

Can you prove I wasn't in fear for my life? Can you prove the attacker truly surrendered and was no longer a threat to me or anyone else?

Aside from fringe cases like that guy who killed the 2 teens execution style in his basement the benefit of the doubt is usually given to the victims.

edit: I shouldn't say victims, I mean people claiming self defense.

 

[Coins]

I think the best case for the community this point is for Wilson to be cleared.

This town needs a healthy dose of nonviolent civil disobedience to open the eyes of the people who truly have no idea what's going on.

If Wilson is charged, you're gonna have one side saying I told you so, and the other side saying he got charged because blacks were gonna riot. I believe that scenario will just continue the status quo.

St. Louis has needed a shakeup for sometime now, I say let it happen.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I think in a high stress situation "surrendering" and "lunging" are not clear enough for a conviction either way.

Are you trying to find a reason for Wilson to be innocent? I mean yes it is a high stress situation but one person(Michael Brown) who was shot bleeding and running for his life decided to surrender or in the words of Darren Wilson "charge" him. I mean seriously it is ridiculous. He even used the old black guy reached for my gun excuse.

Its going to come down to who is more believable on the witness stand and trust me, jurors from my experience side with cops over black people. 2x for a cop with a black eye (or whatever his injuries end up being)

I know that jurors side with cops over black people because history, the prison system and cemeteries are full of examples of jurors siding with cops over black people.

Again cameras. Could have solved this months ago.

I hate to say this but, your a bit naive if you think cameras would have had this over with long ago. The John Crawford walmart shooting and others like him throw that theory straight out the window. The entire justice system is broken and needs fixing and just having camera's around will not fix the problems it may help but, it will not fix the major problems the US has in its criminal justice system.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

I think the best case for the community this point is for Wilson to be cleared.

This town needs a healthy dose of nonviolent civil disobedience to open the eyes of the people who truly have no idea what's going on.

If Wilson is charged, you're gonna have one side saying I told you so, and the other side saying he got charged because blacks were gonna riot. I believe that scenario will just continue the status quo.

St. Louis has needed a shakeup for sometime now, I say let it happen.

If When he's cleared there will be one side saying I told you that thug wasn't innocent. And it will be just another day in America. This has been happening for years and will continue happening no matter the outcome in this case until people consider that black lives matter too.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Yeah I know. That was kinda my point. Unless there is some key piece of evidence that somehow discredits all of the witnesses that we have heard so far then there is plenty of probable cause to charge Wilson and if there was do you really think they wouldn't have released that evidence after how they've handled the case so far? The prosecutor just wants to blame it on the GJ when there aren't charges but he decided a long time ago that he didn't want to charge Wilson. This is a case that should go to court. A person that isn't a cop would have been charged months ago if there were multiple witnesses claiming he shot a surrendering person.

If you're inclined to be pro-police, then you can view this as an event taking all of 20-25 seconds, from the disentanglement at the vehicle to the final shot being fired. It takes what, 10-15 seconds to run 25-30 feet? If you believe that the audio of the shots is not a fake, then the shots took seven seconds for all ten. If the first shots are fired as brown was running away, as some witnesses have said, then it goes to reason that a fair portion of the remainder of the 7 seconds is spent by Brown realizing he's being shot at and then turning around and putting his hands up. I can only guess as to how much of that 7 seconds is spent thinking "is he shooting at me, turn around", I could see that taking a moment to register. the rest of the shots happen very fast. The three second gap is very troubling, I guess that's where you read the "stumble forward" or whatever as a movement towards Wilson. Again, this happens so fast, from the action at the car to the final shot, that if you want to believe the officer's version, I think you can and sleep ok at night.

Personally, I think this should be tried in front of a jury, due to the shooting while running and the 3 second delay in the audio, but I can see a reasonable non racist person disagreeing due to the rapid fire nature of this event. Seven seconds between the first shot fired and the last, and particularly if you believe the first shot was fired as Brown was turned, is likely to not equal an execution in a grand juror's eyes.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Are you trying to find a reason for Wilson to be innocent? I mean yes it is a high stress situation but one person(Michael Brown) who was shot bleeding and running for his life decided to surrender or in the words of Darren Wilson "charge" him. I mean seriously it is ridiculous. He even used the old black guy reached for my gun excuse.




I know that jurors side with cops over black people because history, the prison system and cemeteries are full of examples of jurors siding with cops over black people.



I hate to say this but, your a bit naive if you think cameras would have had this over with long ago. The John Crawford walmart shooting and others like him throw that theory straight out the window. The entire justice system is broken and needs fixing and just having camera's around will not fix the problems it may help but, it will not fix the major problems the US has in its criminal justice system.

Im just saying, turning around could be interpreted different ways. Brown may have been trying to surrender, how would I know?

The important bit legally though is how the officer saw it at the time, if his testimony is that he turned and lunged then he would be justified legally to continue deadly force. Unless there is clear video or other evidence contradicting his story he is going to walk.

Video cameras may not prevent anything but at least we could sort out what really happened and charge murderers and cops who use excessive force?

 

[Coins]

If When he's cleared there will be one side saying I told you that thug wasn't innocent. And it will be just another day in America. This has been happening for years and will continue happening no matter the outcome in this case until people consider that black lives matter too.

I don't think so. The situation is so tense here its insane.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Im just saying, turning around could be interpreted different ways. Brown may have been trying to surrender, how would I know?

The important bit legally though is how the officer saw it at the time, if his testimony is that he turned and lunged then he would be justified legally to continue deadly force. Unless there is clear video or other evidence contradicting his story he is going to walk.

Video cameras may not prevent anything but at least we could sort out what really happened and charge murderers and cops who use excessive force?

If you're inclined to be pro-police, then you can view this as an event taking all of 20-25 seconds, from the disentanglement at the vehicle to the final shot being fired. It takes what, 10-15 seconds to run 25-30 feet? If you believe that the audio of the shots is not a fake, then the shots took seven seconds for all ten. If the first shots are fired as brown was running away, as some witnesses have said, then it goes to reason that a fair portion of the remainder of the 7 seconds is spent by Brown realizing he's being shot at and then turning around and putting his hands up. I can only guess as to how much of that 7 seconds is spent thinking "is he shooting at me, turn around", I could see that taking a moment to register. the rest of the shots happen very fast. The three second gap is very troubling, I guess that's where you read the "stumble forward" or whatever as a movement towards Wilson. Again, this happens so fast, from the action at the car to the final shot, that if you want to believe the officer's version, I think you can and sleep ok at night.

Personally, I think this should be tried in front of a jury, due to the shooting while running and the 3 second delay in the audio, but I can see a reasonable non racist person disagreeing due to the rapid fire nature of this event. Seven seconds between the first shot fired and the last, and particularly if you believe the first shot was fired as Brown was turned, is likely to not equal an execution in a grand juror's eyes.

It would take less than 3 seconds to run 25-30 feet which would be around 10 yards.


But to come to those conclusions you have to ignore all, that the public has heard, eyewitness testimony and take Wilson's word over everything else.

 

[uncredited male]

I would be surprised with no charges actually.

Any potential case against Zimmerman was basically dead after the lax investigating in the first 24 hours and the state still went through the motions.

 

[Flo_Evans]

If you're inclined to be pro-police, then you can view this as an event taking all of 20-25 seconds, from the disentanglement at the vehicle to the final shot being fired. It takes what, 10-15 seconds to run 25-30 feet? If you believe that the audio of the shots is not a fake, then the shots took seven seconds for all ten. If the first shots are fired as brown was running away, as some witnesses have said, then it goes to reason that a fair portion of the remainder of the 7 seconds is spent by Brown realizing he's being shot at and then turning around and putting his hands up. I can only guess as to how much of that 7 seconds is spent thinking "is he shooting at me, turn around", I could see that taking a moment to register. the rest of the shots happen very fast. The three second gap is very troubling, I guess that's where you read the "stumble forward" or whatever as a movement towards Wilson. Again, this happens so fast, from the action at the car to the final shot, that if you want to believe the officer's version, I think you can and sleep ok at night.

Personally, I think this should be tried in front of a jury, due to the shooting while running and the 3 second delay in the audio, but I can see a reasonable non racist person disagreeing due to the rapid fire nature of this event. Seven seconds between the first shot fired and the last, and particularly if you believe the first shot was fired as Brown was turned, is likely to not equal an execution in a grand juror's eyes.

you can run 30 feet in like 3 seconds... 10-15seconds is walking pace.

 

[Higgy]

So didn't Eric Holder promise this?

"At a time when so much may seem uncertain, the people of Ferguson can have confidence that the Justice Department intends to learn — in a fair and thorough manner — exactly what happened,'' Holder wrote.

If the officer is or isn't charged doesnt Eric Holders justice department pretty much be become the official account on what happened? He goes on in great detail that everyone will know what happened, not just if his civil rights were violated.

So why is everyone freaking out. We trust Holder on this right?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-holder-michael-brown-investigation/14309733/

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Holder is retiring, and I don't think the Justice Department is willing to do what it's going to take to root out the corruption in Ferguson, let alone St. Louis.

If anything was actually going to happen in regards to Wilson being charged, it was going to come from the Justice Department, but I never thought anything was going to manifest there, either.

At this point, I'm more interested in seeing what the aftermath is going to be. It's been clear since the protests started and this gained media attention that they were never going to charge this man with a crime.

 

[Version 3.0]

This is not a useful model for human behavior it's just something you pulled out of your ass.

No, it's basic instinct. If you have a recourse to avoid harm, you'll take it, whether that's a gun or just a rock. If you need a study to believe that, I feel sorry for you.

Please don't mistake this for a defense of Wilson. I was only rebutting a silly notion that he had no potential motive for firing the first shot.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Im just saying, turning around could be interpreted different ways. Brown may have been trying to surrender, how would I know?

The important bit legally though is how the officer saw it at the time, if his testimony is that he turned and lunged then he would be justified legally to continue deadly force. Unless there is clear video or other evidence contradicting his story he is going to walk.

Video cameras may not prevent anything but at least we could sort out what really happened and charge murderers and cops who use excessive force?

Yes cops do actually get charged with crimes but, most of the time they are never charged Civil lawsuits are where they usually lose and the citizens of what ever county and or city they are in pay for their mistakes. Their was also video in a few of these incidents and police still were not charged.

examples of police killing citizens who have not been charged with a crime or will not be charged with a crime.




http://news.yahoo.com/milwaukee-police-fire-officer-shot-man-park-214238215.html


http://news.yahoo.com/jurors-deputies-used-excessive-force-death-174400230.html

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-utah-police-shooting-20140914-story.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-ang...dentally-killing-tosh-0-production-assistant/

http://fox13now.com/2014/08/12/vigil-held-for-south-salt-lake-man-shot-killed-by-police/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/andy-lopez_n_4152819.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/11/john-crawford-iii_n_5669715.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01/eric-garner-homicide_n_5642481.html

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cold-blooded-killing-unarmed-man-duty-chicago-cop-caught-tape/

That is just 9 not including mike brown and their are many more like these unfortunate gentlemen.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

It would take less than 3 seconds to run 25-30 feet which would be around 10 yards.


But to come to those conclusions you have to ignore all, that the public has heard, eyewitness testimony and take Wilson's word over everything else.

I was being generous with the timing in the run. Regarding your other point, if you are referring to what I posted, almost of what I posited you can get directly from the witness accounts that we've heard plus the audio, so I'm not sure why you say that isn't supported by what's in the public. Sure inferences are there, but nothing far fetched, at least in my,post.

 

[Brakke]

No, it's basic instinct. If you have a recourse to avoid harm, you'll take it, whether that's a gun or just a rock. If you need a study to believe that, I feel sorry for you.

Please don't mistake this for a defense of Wilson. I was only rebutting a silly notion that he had no potential motive for firing the first shot.

You begged the question. That Wilson "escalated the fight" is not evidence that Mike Brown was "winning" it. You don't know anything at all about any fight at the car.

I can say it's "basic human instinct" to push an advantage and use my momentum to put a decisive end to a fight but that doesn't make that some universal truth about human behavior admissible in court.

"If you have a recourse to avoid harm, you'll take it" is asinine. I would not kill someone to avoid a punch no way no good. I probably wouldn't even kill someone to prevent my own death. That Wilson went from scuffling to firing a gun doesn't alone tell us anything at all except that he fired the first shot. It certainly doesn't indicate anything like Brown was getting the better of him.

 

[Version 3.0]

You begged the question. That Wilson "escalated the fight" is not evidence that Mike Brown was "winning" it. You don't know anything at all about any fight at the car.

I can say it's "basic human instinct" to push an advantage and use my momentum to put a decisive end to a fight but that doesn't make that some universal truth about human behavior admissible in court.

"If you have a recourse to avoid harm, you'll take it" is asinine. I would not kill someone to avoid a punch no way no good. I probably wouldn't even kill someone to prevent my own death. That Wilson went from scuffling to firing a gun doesn't alone tell us anything at all except that he fired the first shot. It certainly doesn't indicate anything like Brown was getting the better of him.

I agree, but again, I was only rebutting the twisted "logic" from an earlier post. I have no idea why Wilson fired, but it's far more likely that he decided to do so mid-confrontation than beforehand. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying he should have fired. In my opinion, he shouldn't have.

 

[Coins]

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/source-darren-wilson-says-michael-brown-kept-charging-at-him/article_d2cf8b20-c517-592b-96ba-77d8a5f46fef.html?mobile_touch=true

More leaked info. Mobile site is being wonky and it won't let me copy and paste. Basically says Brown kept charging at Wilson after he got shot in the hand.

 

[DiscoJer]

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/source-darren-wilson-says-michael-brown-kept-charging-at-him/article_d2cf8b20-c517-592b-96ba-77d8a5f46fef.html?mobile_touch=true

More leaked info. Mobile site is being wonky and it won't let me copy and paste. Basically says Brown kept charging at Wilson after he got shot in the hand.

Non-mobile

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e98a4ce0-c284-57c9-9882-3fb7df75fef6.html

Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, said the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” She added, “If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun.”

Sources told the Post-Dispatch that Brown’s blood had been found on Wilson’s gun.

Melinek also said the autopsy did not support witnesses who have claimed Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.

She said Brown was facing Wilson when Brown took a shot to the forehead, two shots to the chest and a shot to the upper right arm. The wound to the top of Brown’s head would indicate he was falling forward or in a lunging position toward the shooter; the shot was instantly fatal.

A sixth shot that hit the forearm traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson, as some witnesses have said, Melinek said. That trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was hit, she said.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Oh, gee, golly.

I guess all the witnesses are liars, then.

A whole group of liars.

Imagine that.

 

[BronsonLee]

Presented without comment.

The St. Louis Dispatch put up the entire autopsy report for Michael Brown from the county coroner.

 

[Punchy4486]

Still think a lot of this new evidence can be applicable to either side's story, but the (admittedly unrelated to the case) forensic experts are starting to make me think more about things.

I think Wilson's side still sounds less plausible, but the evidence hasn't disproved much of it yet.