CrimsonCommie
Member
It's insane that people take the word of one police officer over the, at least, 7 witnesses that saw Brown get shot while surrendering.
Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue
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jordan0386
Member
America, bruh...
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Does what happened in the car change things? No, because we knew there was a scuffle.
Does the blood? Yes. It's going to be used as a smoking gun.
Does that make it right that he shot a guy that was surrendering? Did Wilson think he would return in the dead of night to "finish the job"?
Also, to take into consideration, we don't know what led up to the scuffle. I somehow don't see Brown trying to get the guys gun for no reason at all.
DasMack
Join Date: 09-13-2013
Posts
Total Posts: 6 (0.02 posts per day)
So you have 6 posts in total in the course of a year and then you dig up a post I made two months ago to reply to?
I'm sorry, but those two things make this just super weird.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
To say that the car situation makes the case open and shut is to ignore every single action the police have taken since the shooting. It's to ignore the blank report.
NullPointer
Member
Yeah, this... I don't see how this story invalidates anything we've heard so far.
Devolution
Member
Not really surprised by a scuffle since the person who didn't want to be taken in by Wilson is dead.
Not to mention all the shit that's come out about a precinct so awful it became defunct and another so awful, Ferguson PD, we've learned about more and more episodes of misconduct and excessive force.
But sure Michael Brown is some anomaly that just happened and it's all his fault. We're not talking about a department so violent and scary and a community member so aware of it that he didn't want to go down to the station/jail.
Nope.
Not to mention all the shit that's come out about a precinct so awful it became defunct and another so awful, Ferguson PD, we've learned about more and more episodes of misconduct and excessive force.
But sure Michael Brown is some anomaly that just happened and it's all his fault. We're not talking about a department so violent and scary and a community member so aware of it that he didn't want to go down to the station/jail.
Nope.
CrimsonCommie
Member
I know man. It's depressing.
As we saw with the Zimmerman case it's never a question if the victims had a reasonable fear for their life, which both Martin and Brown clearly would have had. They're not here to testify on their behalf so the murderer in both cases is allowed to concoct a story to justify their actions. This case actually has more eyewitnesses to contradict the story yet there will be no indictment at all.
Devolution
Member
Black males don't get to be afraid for their lives with gun toting assholes on their heels. Everyone else gets to be afraid by their very existence. It's the epitome of profiling and racism that is part of this great country of ours.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Unless they fail to produce the gun, I wouldn't think they would make up such an easy-to-debunk story as that. Because if they fail to produce the bloody gun, then shit is suspect.
But who knows.
which of these facts makes it okay to then shoot the guy when he surrendered?
When i see bullshit i call it out, no matter how old.
What i find interesting is that instead of replying to my points, you look up my post history as if that makes a difference in the validity of posts. I thought everyones voice was equal here on neogaf... according to lime I guess not
Antiochus
Member
If Officer Wilson's account is true, then this would mean that at most he can be credibly charged with involuntary manslaughter due to panic of the moment, but alas, not a racially bigoted premeditated murder of Michael Brown. And if the evidence is true, then it will again undermine the popular account of Brown as a defenseless, innocent interlocutor who was merely in wrong circumstances.
I agree with you HP it doesn't make it ok,
and i agree with you again i dont see brown reaching for the officer's gun for no reason, which if you believe that then why would a police officer shoot an unarmed civillian for absolutely no reason in broad daylight with 5+ witnesses standing around?
the way each person answers that question (without relevant and verifiable facts) reveals a lot about your personal biases.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I think we need a repost of that Onion-esque series of events "as told by Wilson".
This time involving a groggy Wilson, quickly losing blood, but firing shots rapidly, hoping they hit the vampire Brown before he preys on the puppy on the sidewalk.
Time to stop pretending there will be charges.
No, make it a innocent little blonde haired blue eyes cheerleader.
No, make it a innocent little blonde haired blue eyes cheerleader.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Reaching for a gun held by someone trained in how to use it when they are inside a car is not a light action. He didn't just "rob a store" and then decide "for my next feat, I will kill a cop". Something happened that, unfortunately, only Brown and Wilson know.
I don't believe Mr.Wilson for a second. Who the Fuck reaches into a police cruiser to try and fight for the cops gun? Are we just gonna assume he had a death wish cause he was black and stole cigars? More likely Mr. Wilson initiated the contact and pulled his weapon to scare Michael into submission. And all this still doesn't change the fact that Mr. Wilson murdered Michael after he surrendered.
You didn't know that lime is the moral authority on social issues?
ReignofSparrows
Member
This is completely ignorant drivel.
I'll say what I said when this case first surfaced - if the evidence establishes that Brown had his hands up as an act of surrender when the fatal shots were fired, that would be a violation of his constitutional rights, and the officer would be liable for murder. Brown could be a known serial killer who had in fact just murdered someone in front of the officer, but if he surrendered, he must be arrested without deadly force. In short, even if the officer's story is 100% accurate regarding the events when Brown was near the vehicle, his story still wouldn't be exculpatory. So please don't make a condescending post about how people have interpreted the facts when you don't understand how they play into the legal process.
With all that said, I have changed my position regarding the likelihood of indictment, and it seems obvious that the officer will walk. The public doesn't give a shit what the law says, which I knew, but now it's clear that the prosecutor doesn't care, either. And the worst part is that this validates the idiotic views like the one I am responding to. People will think 'see, once all the facts came out, he was innocent. If the law is what you says it is, how come he wasn't found guilty?' It's just complete bullshit because it doesn't follow from the law whatsoever.
I would honestly rather we codify that black people do not get 4th Amendment protection because it would at least give this eventual decision some legal merit.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Somehow Wilson's account seems off
yeah i must have missed that memo, i'll be sure to keep my mouth shut from now on
AnotherNils
Member
Question for someone unfamiliar with police weapons: Do police usually carry their weapons without the safety on? I'm somewhat curious if Brown had to disengage the safety to fire during the scuffle.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The whole account is suspicious.
I'm not up on police regulations, but can you go around with a gun that has it's safety off?
well i believe your idea of "light action" and another persons idea of "light action" may differ being that its a subjective opinion, we can't assume brown thinks the same way we do, but i see what you are getting at.
what ever forced the officer to discharge his weapon had to have been serious enough to have him fear for his safety, if it didn't then he should be charged.
Very few police agencies issue a service weapon with a manual safety on it of any kind. And, this has always been the case. The Colt and S&W service revolvers that were common in police holsters from approx. 1890 until approx 1990 have no safety. The Glock pistol, which started becoming the predominant weapon issued by police in the early 90's, has no external safety. The holster is the safety, and when unholstered the user's finger is the safety. Finger stays off the trigger until you intend to fire, period.
There have been some pistols with manual safeties issued as police service weapons in the past, but it's never been what you'd call common. The biggest exception I can think of would be the S&W 39/ 59 / 5906 series. Manual safeties have typically only been something you see on "single-action" guns, or guns that can carried "cocked and locked," such as the Colt 1911. In a single-action gun, the hammer is manually cocked and the only action the trigger performs is to release the hammer and let the pistol fire. In a single-action gun, the trigger pull is very short and very light, hence the need for the manual safety. Police service weapons are almost always "double-action," or at least double-action for the first shot. With a double action gun, the trigger must perform the job of both cocking the hammer, and releasing it to fire the weapon. That requires more force to pull the trigger, and the trigger must be pulled a significantly greater distance before the gun fires, so it much less likely that the gun will be fired unintentionally. Because the trigger pull is much longer and heavier, double action handguns usually do not have a manual safety.
The same thing happened in the Trayvon Martin case. It's really obvious when you look at it. With Wilson, for some reason Mike Brown decides to reach into and SUV (not a car) and make an attempt to grab the officer's gun on his right hip while holstered (through the window). During this, he's also allegedly striking an armed officer in his vehicle and then decides to run away after he's shot. Then Wilson pursues and Mike Brown stops running away, decides to taunt the officer, and then charge an officer with a gun. It makes no sense.
Just like with Trayvon, Zimmernan kept escalating things. For some reason, Trayvon was close to his home and then decides to turn around and confront a person he was already trying to get away from. Then Zimmerman would have us believe the Trayvon threatened to kill him (for being followed) and then attempted to grab his gun.
It seems all too convenient that there's always some sort of escalation of violence when anyone with common sense can objectively look at things and say, "That doesn't make sense." Apparently, occam's razor doesn't exist.
Crazy that the onus is on dead people to prove that they didn't try to grab a gun wielders's weapon. Carrying a gun is like a built in legal defense for murder.
that's an interesting, one sided recollection of what happened in the zimmerman case.
judging by your attempt to compare these two events and the paragraph you just wrote you seem to have little knowledge of that whole situation.
did you folow the zimmerman case at all?
Cos he was no "gentle giant", you know, like Trayvon wasnt a "good natured" kid. They probably played the knockout game like only blacks do.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Every witness account matched each other, while the cops kept changing the story, and people still think the cops are right.
I've been thinking about this since I saw it:
Jmanunknown
Member
This is bullshit Darren Wilson had two months to come up with a story to try to save his ass from executing an unarmed person and the best he could come up with is basically the same story dorian johnson told the media right after the shooting except he used the old black man reached for my gun trick police like to use. If Mike Brown was trying to reach for the gun were his finger prints on the gun? Dorian Johnson's description to the media of what happened that day right after the shooting
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/1...-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html?referrer=&_r=0
Again, Zimmerman. Plus police will use the "justice was served" excuse to shut down protests. Only thing that can be done is a civil suit.
uncredited male
Member
There really wasn't a local community that gave a shit in Florida though.
Then why were officials begging them not to riot?
I followed the Zimmerman case and that was entirely suspect. Tray von was followed by an anonymous vehicle. Trayvon attempted to get out of that vehicles sight. An armed man gets out of that vehicle and proceeds to pursue an innocent boy. He finds him and then a scuffle occurs. Trayvon is shot dead that night. Those are the facts. The killer later walks free. Complete bullshit.
Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about. There was a pretty big rally that happened here for the trial. It wasn't on Ferguson level by any means but there were a ton of passionate people out there.
I don't know about Florida but St Louis has been pretty active. Big protests over that more recent killing and that kid actually fired a gun. Demonstrations at sports stadiums and at the symphony. I'll be shocked if there's no response to that cop returning to the force.
uncredited male
Member
My post had some hyperbole. Generally with the Zimmerman case you got more attention nationwide than you got in the region. Ferguson has been more intense locally but has been sloughed over in the mainstream.
Then don't.
I'm guessing that you didn't.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Maybe he was a late arrival to the Zimmerman thread the same way he's swooped in here with his need all the facts 'tude. Maybe he just bides his time before bugging the shit out of us, waiting for that very right moment when all the facts allow an appearance.
Or maybe he's a sock puppet. Hi reddit.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I didn't
where in that post does it say "i think the officer was right to shoot brown"
can you read?
all of the injuries zimmerman sustained + the police reports + lie detector tests/ voice stress tests + eye witnesses all corroborate zimmermans account of what went on that night.
zimmerman was not right for shooting an unarmed individual nor he did deserve to avoid any punishment for taking another person life.
trayvon commited a crime when he attacked zimmerman in the street, he attacked the wrong person who was carrying a gun does that justify him being killed no but he did set in motion a chain of events that led to his death.
both of them could have walked away, both of them could have de-escalated the situation but to say that zimmerman is the only one at fault here and that he got away with murder is a stretch, manslauhter maybe but murder.. no way, if you looked at the facts of the case without any bias you'd come to that conclusion too.
yeah who needs facts when we have feels, i feel that the officer was wrong, no need to look at the facts of the case lets just convict him right here on the spot.
what a well thought out response.
looks like we have an original OJ jury member right here guys
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Well, you sure told me. Glad to see you championing facts. We don't have enough of your kind in these sorts of threads.
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