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[SixMachine]

no, VF does not differentiate frame data like that. if you're -12 you're -12 regardless of how you got there and you can't block until the 13th frame. it's how some sideturned stuff works because when ST it takes 3f to block so -9 is guaranteed P,K.

Hold on a minute, are you talking from which perspective here? Are you talking about a P,K punish against an attacker who put themselves negative by doing an unsafe move or are you talking about a defender who blocked a move that gave his opponent frame advantage? For the sake of the discussion just run through the match or scenario that this happens in.

 

[oneida]

Hold on a minute, are you talking from which perspective here? Are you talking about a P,K punish against an attacker who put themselves negative by doing an unsafe move or are you talking about a defender who blocked a move that gave his opponent frame advantage? For the sake of the discussion just run through the match or scenario that this happens in.

it doesn't matter. if you're attacking and your opponent leaves you at -12 by blocking your attack, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

if you're blocking and your opponent uses an attack that leaves you at -12 on block, such as Akira's 2P+K+G, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

 

[Lostconfused]

frame advantage counts the difference in time between when block stun ends for the defender and the recovery frames of a move used by the attacker.

Right, my mistake. I meant block stun? I don't think 2D games have block recovery, not the ones that I tried anyway.

 

[Sayad]

it doesn't matter. if you're attacking and your opponent leaves you at -12 by blocking your attack, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

if you're blocking and your opponent uses an attack that leaves you at -12 on block, such as Akira's 2P+K+G, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

This is what's different from most other games, -12 for the defending character in other games mean he's in block stun for 12 frames, he can block if attacked again during those 12 frames, but can't move until after the 12 frames.

 

[SixMachine]

it doesn't matter. if you're attacking and your opponent leaves you at -12 by blocking your attack, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

if you're blocking and your opponent uses an attack that leaves you at -12 on block, such as Akira's 2P+K+G, P,K is guaranteed because P is 12f.

Isn't that one of Akira's guard breaks? I know I didn't really spend as much time with VF even though I own it, but iirc that opens them up if they block it, so I thought it was a special property of it. The thing is if you say it works the way it does, how does the game deal with tight strings?

Not only that but even if you ignore and not thing of frame advantage which is relative to the players, every game does have a certain amount of frames in blockstun or hitstun when a move hits. Like for example, my using some ghetto math via SF4 for Chun-Li. Her far standing HK is -4 on block and is listed at 20 frames of recovery (which happens after the active portion of the move), so if someone blocks it, they should have 16 frames of blockstun. That's why I'm thinking they would have to at least keep in mind a block state for their frames.

Now I'm not saying you are wrong about anything, I'm just trying to understand how it works since it sounds very different from every other fighting game, even other 3d ones.

edit: to expand on what I'm saying, in SF4 and other games, people have tight block strings that you can't reversal out of or do anything in the middle of because they are hitting you while you are still in block stun to pressure you. How would VF handle that kind of thing, since I have seen and played matches where strings have hit blocks and it's not opened up, since usually the frame data that I can find on the internet on the frame advantage usually just tells the advantage at the end of the string.

 

[oneida]

Isn't that one of Akira's guard breaks? I know I didn't really spend as much time with VF even though I own it, but iirc that opens them up if they block it, so I thought it was a special property of it. The thing is if you say it works the way it does, how does the game deal with tight strings?

Not only that but even if you ignore and not thing of frame advantage which is relative to the players, every game does have a certain amount of frames in blockstun or hitstun when a move hits. Like for example, my using some ghetto math via SF4 for Chun-Li. Her far standing HK is -4 on block and is listed at 20 frames of recovery (which happens after the active portion of the move), so if someone blocks it, they should have 16 frames of blockstun. That's why I'm thinking they would have to at least keep in mind a block state for their frames.

Now I'm not saying you are wrong about anything, I'm just trying to understand how it works since it sounds very different from every other fighting game, even other 3d ones.

it's a gb because it leaves your opponent at -12 and asking me to provide examples of moves that guarantee hits after block without talking about guard breaks is like asking me to talk about moves that launch without talking about launchers.

Akira's gbs are linear attacks. they can be eaten by a reversal like any attack and they can be sidestepped like any linear attack.

what do you mean when you ask how the game handles tight strings?

 

[SixMachine]

it's a gb because it leaves your opponent at -12 and asking me to provide examples of moves that guarantee hits after block without talking about guard breaks is like asking me to talk about moves that launch without talking about launchers.

Akira's gbs are linear attacks. they can be eaten by a reversal like any attack and they can be sidestepped like any linear attack.

what do you mean when you ask how the game handles tight strings?

I was just asking if the move had some special guard break property attached to it and it's not just the frame data at work, since I know the DOA has some guard break moves and you can really tell what they do when they hit guard. What I mean about tight strings, I was thinking of block strings like in my edit above. Like someone using a string against the block, are you saying there are no instances when you do a string against a block, your attack does not hit them while they are in a guard stun state? Or if you want another example, sort of like how you can't do anything if you blocked Balrog's ultra or super, since it is tight. A hypothetical here but, if there was something like Yoga Catastrophe or even Balrog's super in VF it would be unblockable? I know for another 3d game, it's not the case in SC5 because if someone blocks Viola's super and she tries to hit them during it, they can still block.

 

[Coffeeling]

it's a gb because it leaves your opponent at -12 and asking me to provide examples of moves that guarantee hits after block without talking about guard breaks is like asking me to talk about moves that launch without talking about launchers.

Akira's gbs are linear attacks. they can be eaten by a reversal like any attack and they can be sidestepped like any linear attack.

what do you mean when you ask how the game handles tight strings?

He's confused because in 2d parlance:
Attack hits, attacker at +12f advantage. We say "attacker is at +12". Understanding that victim is in hitstun and can be comboed.

Attack gets blocked, attacker has +12f. We say "attacker is at +12". Understanding that victim is in blockstun and hitting him again withinn 12f will result in the second attack being blocked. We'd say that it's a true blockstring.

Attack gets blocked, saying victim is at -12, followup combo guaranteed => ???. If an attack gets blocked, the assumption is always that the victim is in blockstun, and attacking within that will just get your stuff blocked (unless you high/low him correctly)

We'd say attack gets blocked, guard break, attacker at +12. Guard break specified because typically attacks getting blocked puts someone in blockstun, not in hitstun.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

SFOTV - Rival Scenes...wow. Just wow. I feel so bad

 

[Retro_]

This has been the most interesting conversation in FGW in ages. Had no idea VF worked like that

 

[mbpm1]

I don't really get it, but VF sounds cool.

 

[Compbros]

???

they started patching MK9 after 1 year from launch, i guess to somehow appease the barrage of negative reviews with the aproach of MKX launch
they haven't fixed shit though, just made the game playable for people having trouble to launch it and basic technical issues like that.

netcode is still hot garbage with lag even at 2-5ms pings playing people less than 5 kilometers away.. but then again, Ultra in ranked is plagued with issues too.

fighting game devs are disgustingly incompetent, negligent.

What? That's incorrect. People complained that they DIDN'T wait 1 year to patch MK9/IGAU. NRS is known for quick patches within the first year of the game and people complain that they don't "let it breathe" before patches. I don't care what anyone says, Superman's breath being +1 on block when he has an 8f advancing normal with a hit box out this world needed fixing. Aquaman/Batman trait cooldown needed to be fixed. It goes on and on and on, some things don't need to breathe, they need to be patched because they're a clear problem. Things like Scorpion was too reactionary but just about everything else has been for the overall betterment of the game, regardless if that comes a month later or a year later. Plus they still hotfix unintentional problems like infinites and B3 moves getting clashed.


Sorry, tangent, back to your point. They did "fix shit", they made bad characters better and great characters worse trying to balance the game out. For IGAU it was done very well as low tier characters can hang with high tier ones as opposed to MK9 where the low tier was SOOOOOOOOOO far away from high tier that they just got mauled every which way.


MK9 netcode went from awful to not good and Injustice went from not good to ok. MK9 is very playable if both players have good, wired connections as is IGAU. Just like any other online game, the rampant use of wireless connections for convenience affects it and you get a ton matches that feel underwater or moves that come out a second later.

Incompetent/negligent? Seriously? Skullgirls netcode is great and other FGs work to improve the netcode with each iteration. Call of Duty, one of the biggest gaming franchises in history, is STILL plagued by sub-par netcode, rubber banding, host migrations, etc. Netcode is no easy feat and devs are doing their best.



Edit: I see it was already answered, what a waste of a post from me then lol.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Don't worry, Triforce got a backup plan in fan fiction writing.

Only just got around to watching this. Watching/listening to this at work is not the best thing to be doing. My sides. MY SIDES! XD

 

[oneida]

I was just asking if the move had some special guard break property attached to it and it's not just the frame data at work, since I know the DOA has some guard break moves and you can really tell what they do when they hit guard. What I mean about tight strings, I was thinking of block strings like in my edit above. Like someone using a string against the block, are you saying there are no instances when you do a string against a block, your attack does not hit them while they are in a guard stun state? Or if you want another example, sort of like how you can't do anything if you blocked Balrog's ultra or super, since it is tight. A hypothetical here but, if there was something like Yoga Catastrophe or even Balrog's super in VF it would be unblockable? I know for another 3d game, it's not the case in SC5 because if someone blocks Viola's super and she tries to hit them during it, they can still block.

So strings in VF and block strings are very different beasts - across the board, strings are significantly negative on their final hit on block. typically they are delayable between hits and they are within themselves completely uninterruptible: that is, if the first hit in a string is -4 on guard and the second hit has a 14f startup, that second hit will still beat out a 12f punch from the attacker. the result is that strings in VF are used to control rhythm - they are not block strings, really, even if they seem similar on paper. in fact, many strings are negative on hit with the last attack: Lau's 3P,P,K for example. the last two hits are guaranteed if the first hits CH, but the K leaves me at -3 so i have to fuzzy guard after.

an example of an unblockable:
jean's 66p leaves the opponent in a unique state when it lands CH and gives Jean enough frame advantage to evade to the opponent's side and land a fully charged K. this move on charge has a follow up K which hits low and is 100% unblockable when the charged K hits from the side.

barring guard breaks which grant unblockables by nature there are no other unblockables I know about in VF. there are some moves, like the K in Jean's 33P,K which become unblockable at full charge but that is the kind of unique property I think you had in mind wrt guard breaks.

 

[Coffeeling]

This has been the most interesting conversation in FGW in ages. Had no idea VF worked like that

That move is a guard break that leaves you at frame advantage. Nothing strange to it.

So strings in VF and block strings are very different beasts - across the board, strings are significantly negative on their final hit on block. typically they are delayable between hits and they are within themselves completely uninterruptible: that is, if the first hit in a string is -4 on guard and the second hit has a 14f startup, that second hit will still beat out a 12f punch from the attacker. the result is that strings in VF are used to control rhythm - they are not block strings, really, even if they seem similar on paper. in fact, many strings are negative on hit with the last attack: Lau's 3P,P,K for example. the last two hits are guaranteed if the first hits CH, but the K leaves me at -3 so i have to fuzzy guard after.

an example of an unblockable:
jean's 66p leaves the opponent in a unique state when it lands CH and gives Jean enough frame advantage to evade to the opponent's side and land a fully charged K. this move on charge has a follow up K which hits low and is 100% unblockable when the charged K hits from the side.

barring guard breaks which grant unblockables by nature there are no other unblockables I know about in VF. there are some moves, like the K in Jean's 33P,K which become unblockable at full charge but that is the kind of unique property I think you had in mind wrt guard breaks.

That just sounds like rekkas in 2d games - the later hits cancel from the former ones so you can get gaps tight enough to not get counterhit by the opponent on block and to combo if it hits, but the ending move can (and in for example KOF13 is) be significantly negative, so you end up playing games like "when will I stop" and delaying the later hits to try to catch the opponent thinking you stopped.

 

[Lostconfused]

This has been the most interesting conversation in FGW in ages. Had no idea VF worked like that

It kind of sounds like block in RoI or Full Boost except you cant hold it, obviously because the games are designed within entirely different framework and limitations.

 

[oneida]

I forgot to specify that the charged K in my jean unblockable example actually needs to be blocked for the follow up K to even come out. if the opponent doesn't guard the K the setup won't work, but at least he eats a fully charged K.

 

[BadWolf]

it's a gb because it leaves your opponent at -12 and asking me to provide examples of moves that guarantee hits after block without talking about guard breaks is like asking me to talk about moves that launch without talking about launchers.

Akira's gbs are linear attacks. they can be eaten by a reversal like any attack and they can be sidestepped like any linear attack.

what do you mean when you ask how the game handles tight strings?

That doesn't sound different from other games though, since the guard break is a special move that has the function of doing what it's called. It doesn't have anything to do with positive or negative, it just disables the opponent's block.

It's the same as Karate's EX fireball in KOFXIII, which causes a full guard break. That is the EX fireball's specific function, to bypass guard.

 

[oneida]

That just sounds like rekkas in 2d games - the later hits cancel from the former ones so you can get gaps tight enough to not get counterhit by the opponent on block and to combo if it hits, but the ending move can (and in for example KOF13 is) be significantly negative.

the rekka comparison is fine enough. there are some uses of strings - like tracking on some hits - that make them uniquely useful in 3D games though. but yeah, I guess you could think of strings as being like rekkas.

really the only thing somewhat resembling traditional blockstrings in VF is sideturned stuff. once you're at an opponent's side - which you get to via successful evades, for one - all your attacks become 3 frames better on block. this leads to some really mean setups which prolongs the attackers "turn" and disrupts the rhythm of frame advantage. lots of nasty setups with Akira on ST

That doesn't sound different from other games though, since the guard break is a special move that has the function of doing what it's called. It doesn't have anything to do with positive or negative, it just disables the opponent's block.

But VF doesn't have special moves. It just has moves. GB's are called GB because of the frame advantage they grant on block, there's no special states or anything like that. If a move is +12 on guard, it's a GB on VF. There aren't many of them.

 

[oneida]

to clarify guard breaks can hit in a traditional sense, ie, be not guarded. In Akira's case that actually leaves him in significant enough frame disadvantage that the person hit by the guard break gets a free throw attempt. they are just attacks. unlike throws, which aren't like attacks at all but also beat guard.

 

[BadWolf]

But VF doesn't have special moves. It just has moves. GB's are called GB because of the frame advantage they grant on block, there's no special states or anything like that. If a move is +12 on guard, it's a GB on VF. There aren't many of them.

If you have to do a special input then it's a special move.

to clarify guard breaks can hit in a traditional sense, ie, be not guarded. In Akira's case that actually leaves him in significant enough frame disadvantage that the person hit by the guard break gets a free throw attempt. they are just attacks. unlike throws, which aren't like attacks at all but also beat guard.

It's the same as in my earlier example.

Karate does EX fireball > you block > your guard is broken
Karate does EX fireball > you roll > the fireball whiffs and he is open to attack

 

[oneida]

If you have to do a special input then it's a special move.

This is a meaningless way of categorizing moves as that means there are 2 normal attacks in VF and hundreds of special moves per character.

 

[Sayad]

If you have to do a special input then it's a special move.

Not in 3D fighters.

 

[BadWolf]

This is a meaningless way of categorizing moves as that means there are 2 normal attacks in VF and hundreds of special moves per character.

The point of arguing this is what exactly?

The move you mentioned for Akira and the move I mentioned for Karate have the exact same purpose and work in the same way.

 

[Coffeeling]

But VF doesn't have special moves. It just has moves. GB's are called GB because of the frame advantage they grant on block, there's no special states or anything like that. If a move is +12 on guard, it's a GB on VF. There aren't many of them.

So standing P is guard break now?

 

[MarkMan]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[oneida]

+12 is as much a "special property" of guard breaks as +4 is a "special property" of frame traps. We define them as such because of their ability to yield that frame advantage, but it doesn't mean there's some unique state the victim adopts.

Jean's 66P creates a special state when it hits CH because it causes the next hit on the opponent to hit counter-hit regardless as to whether or not the opponent is attempting to attack. That's special because there are no other instances in the game where counter hits work that way.

GB is not a special state because there are no instances in the game where you can block a 12f attack at -12.

So standing P is guard break now?

It's a frame trap technically, but not a GB.

 

[Doomshine]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Keep doing it! Some better communication between the streams maybe, but other than that it was great.

Also I hope the stream ideas that Murray talked about happen, would be cool to see.

 

[Retro_]

The point of arguing this is what exactly?

The move you mentioned for Akira and the move I mentioned for Karate have the exact same purpose and work in the same way.

Is karate on disadvantage if the fireball hits?

I think the distinction Oneida is making is significant. It's understanding how the game works rather than just looking at the end result

 

["God's Beard!"]

Beat Knuckle feels special to me!

More importantly, my roommate got P4A2 and I'm in hog heaven. Yukari and Koromaru are both super super fun to play but Mitsuru is still the best. Man it feels good to play P4A again.

 

[RockTurtle]

if VF came to PC, i would definitely get back into the 3D fighter tray.

I've always been intimidated by the series while recognizing its technical prowess.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Is karate on disadvantage if the fireball hits?

Both characters recover at the exact same time on block, you can only take advantage of that guard break by super cancelling when it connects.
It causes crumple on hit, normals will air reset but you can use various specials to combo from there.

 

[Coffeeling]

It's a frame trap technically, but not a GB.

Technically speaking it's just a button that's positive on block, and is useful for frame trapping

I brought up the block advantage just to highlight the inconsistency in the way you use terminology. Being +Xf on block doesn't mean something is a GB, and the opponent is still negative, but in blockstun instead of hitstun.

Which again is why attack blocked => +Xf advantage to attacker = assumption that opponent is in blockstun.

Attack blocked, is noted as a guard break, => +Xf advantage to attacker: Assumption that victim is in hitstun, crumple or other vulnerable state where attacker can get guaranteed damage.

In VF circles it may be possible to just say the +frames because people know Move X is a guard break and isn't P, 6P or something. Maybe they assume it's one because everything under the Sun is negative on block. But on this site most people are not VF players, we mostly play 2d, where the default assumption is that the main repercussion of a move connecting is damage/stun output, putting victim in hit/blockstun and pushback, little else. Other things are specific properties of the move and should be outlined.

 

[Lostconfused]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Tell em to figure out what they are doing with RoI! There hasn't been any talk about it in months, also the game was very under cooked during the last public showings.

 

[Sayad]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Great job on the commentary and over all great event, haven't enjoyed watching TTT2 this much since EVO2013's top 8.

As for the Tekken team, an option to turn off customizations during online matches would be great.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

SCV has the same thing with break attacks. Blocking them in certain situations leads to enough advantage that a quick move will be guaranteed.

And yeah, Rival Scenes was interesting.

 

[oneida]

Technically speaking it's just a button that's positive on block, and is useful for frame trapping

I brought up the block advantage just to highlight the inconsistency in the way you use terminology. Being +Xf on block doesn't mean something is a GB, and the opponent is still negative, but in blockstun instead of hitstun.

Which again is why attack blocked => +Xf advantage to attacker = assumption that opponent is in blockstun.

Attack blocked, is noted as a guard break, => +Xf advantage to attacker: Assumption that victim is in hitstun, crumple or other vulnerable state where attacker can get guaranteed damage.

In VF circles it may be possible to just say the +frames because people know Move X is a guard break and isn't P, 6P or something. Maybe they assume it's one because everything under the Sun is negative on block. But on this site most people are not VF players, we mostly play 2d, where the default assumption is that the main repercussion of a move connecting is damage/stun output, putting victim in hit/blockstun and pushback, little else. Other things are specific properties of the move and should be outlined.

My terminology is not inconsistent merely because it doesn't apply to games I'm not talking about. In VF, you cannot block a 12f attack at -12 regardless of how you got there. Any move that is +12 on guard is a guard break. A move, like P, isn't a guard break because it is only +2 on block. There is no 2f attack which you can guarantee after a blocked P. Being +12 on block is as much of a "special property" for Akira's 2P+K+G as being -4 on block is a "special property" of a character's 6P.

 

[BadWolf]

Is karate on disadvantage if the fireball hits?

I think the distinction Oneida is making is significant. It's understanding how the game works rather than just looking at the end result

Karate can follow up after the attack if he has meter, into a super or a drive cancel. One of the drive cancels can be used to continue a full HD combo.

And it works in the same way because he even refers to the move as a GB, so clearly that is it's function. You aren't getting the opponent to get out of his block, he just can't block it (same as he can't block a throw).

 

[oneida]

Karate can follow up after the attack if he has meter, into a super or a drive cancel. One of the drive cancels can be used as part of a full HD combo.

And it works in the same way because he even refers to the move as a GB, so clearly that is it's function. You aren't getting the opponent to get out of his block, he just can't block it (same as he can't block a throw).

But the system is different because in KoF, if you're -8 in blockstun you can block an 8f attack.

So, since the systems are different, why are we disagreeing?

 

[SquirrelSoup]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

I really liked your commentary!

That was some really good Tekken. Makes me quite excited to hop back into the game again.

On the negative side.. i guess some more communication with the other stream might be good? It hopped from one match to the middle of the next and it was sometimes pretty unclear which team was up, how many they had left etc etc. Didn't bother me that much though.

Also this discussion just happened but while i really really love customization, all the stupid flappy wings and auras and shields and carp made the game on the whole look like a garbage childrens drawing. I don't think that's a good look. I'd like to be able to point at tourney footage and have people be impressed by how awesome it looks >.> (Maybe have just premade alt costumes in tourney mode or something i dunno)

 

[BadWolf]

But the system is different because in KoF, if you're -8 in blockstun you can block an 8f attack.

So, since the systems are different, why are we disagreeing?

Because you are trying to make things sound different when they are very much the same.

 

[Deps]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Was probably the best TTT2 tournament I've seen, super sick. I also have to say I've never been the biggest fan of your commentary, but after Mastercup 7 I'm a fan, you and Jackler were great.

Also please tell the Tekken team to tone down on stupid customs like wings, or an option to hide them when playing online. I doubt anyone would really miss seeing them.

 

[oneida]

Because you are trying to make things sound different when they are very much the same.

If you just jumped in on the discussion on this page you may have missed the source of the confusion: a +25 on block move in MKX which doesn't guarantee any damage. There is a difference between VF, here, as at +25 you can pretty much do whatever you want in VF, there are very few moves you couldn't land NH.

So, it's because these things are different that we're talking about this at all.

 

[AAK]

If anyone watched MASTERCUP 7 over the weekend, please let me know your feedback!

I'm meeting with Bandai Namco in the morning, particularly the TEKKEN team. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Thanks for helping out with the Tekken stream! Great commentary throughout and your inteview around 5 hours in with Micheal Murray revealed a lot of cool tidbits about T7. Devil Kazuya getting a MID EWGF! That's so interesting!

I'll just let you know that if North America ever makes a MASTERCUP 9 (MC8 will be impossible since NA will almost certainly not have T7 by then) qualifier tournament I'd gladly donate to such an event to happen

As for the Tekken team, just tell them thank you for making Tekken Tag Tournament 2. It's a game that I can safely say I'll be playing for the rest of my life and I'll still discover new things for it everytime.

Can you also ask if they're done updating Tekken Revolution? Bob and Julia mysteriously still have their premium effects missing haha.

Great job on the commentary and over all great event, haven't enjoyed watching TTT2 this much since EVO2013's top 8.

As for the Tekken team, an option to turn off customizations during online matches would be great.

Even better yet, allow me to disable specific items along with disabling everything if I want. There are a lot of cool customs out there that I'd enjoy seeing. BUT, let me specifically disable Aura's, emanating Ki , Wings, Massive Batterypacks, Mallets, Nonsense Item Moves, etc. But feel free to keep the upper body and lower body attire customs along with their decal designs. If I had it my way I could get rid of all the distracting obnoxious pieces and still be able to see cool customs people make....like these for example

 

[MarkMan]

Thanks everyone for the feedback/info.

 

[kirblar]

Capcom Loke-testing a new arcade game!

 

[RockTurtle]

I want to add to the customization thing:

I personally think it detracts from a fighting game where sometimes you are fighting against a character as a persona and not a avatar for a style.

While i understand my opinion is subjective, it is still malleable. I think some customization is fine. But sometimes things get taken to the extreme in terms of accessories. big ass wings, floating shiny shit is distracting sometimes. It's nice once in a while. But too much of a good thing you know?

If we are being 100% honest though, i have more of an issue with create-a-character fighters than cosmetics. I can't give a logical explanation why i don't like them. It might be the fear of the unknown when facing them. I have to adapt on the fly instead of being able to train against matchups or movesets and it might be laziness talking. Also sometimes CACs don't always mesh visually or aesthetically as established characters and it draws me out of the game.

so things like costumes, colors, hairstyles etc i don't mind. when it becomes a mish-mash of devil angels with neon signs i start to balk a little.

But i understand people like those a lot so i won't fight for their exclusion. i just won't use them, and i hope fighting game designers can at least add options to remove the cosmetics through option menus (or how sf does it, if you dont have it character shows up as vanilla)

 

[BadWolf]

If you just jumped in on the discussion on this page you may have missed the source of the confusion: a +25 on block move in MKX which doesn't guarantee any damage. There is a difference between VF, here, as at +25 you can pretty much do whatever you want in VF, there are very few moves you couldn't land NH.

So, it's because these things are different that we're talking about this at all.

I was talking about fighting games in general in relation to your VF comparison (as I mentioned in my first post).

The MK comparison doesn't make sense in the first place since iirc MK doesn't have guard breaks.

The difference between VF and MK in that regard is the same as it is between 3rd Strike and Garou Mark of the Wolves. You can block forever in 3rd Strike because unlike in Garou there is no guard break or guard meter to begin with so guard breaks aren't possible period in 3rd Strike.

 

[oneida]

I was talking about fighting games in general in relation to your VF comparison (as I mentioned in my first post).

OK, let's go back to that

That doesn't sound different from other games though, since the guard break is a special move that has the function of doing what it's called. It doesn't have anything to do with positive or negative, it just disables the opponent's block.

If I haven't made it clear that this isn't true, let me do so right now:
GBs in VF have only to do with being +12 or more frames on block.

Period.

 

[BadWolf]

If I haven't made it clear that this isn't true, let me do so right now:
GBs in VF have only to do with being +12 or more frames on block.

Period.

Hehe, okay

Still not much difference in practice and actual gameplay but I see where you're coming from.