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[Chie Satonaka]

It's interesting how many of you are willing to come into this thread with your outrage about even the idea of riots, but you don't seem to have anything to say about the continued systematic injustice that's perpetuated in this country. You know, the thing that makes the idea of rioting a thought to begin with.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Michael Brown's mother has asked people not to riot, at least respect that

That being said

Change is a violent process, and removing the rotten pus of systemic racism and abuse of power that gives rise to a Ferguson police force won't be pretty, no matter what form it takes

 

[CrankyJay]

It's interesting how many of you are willing to come into this thread with your outrage about even the idea of riots, but you don't seem to have anything to say about the continued systematic injustice that's perpetuated in this country. You know, the thing that makes the idea of rioting a thought to begin with.

This seems like cherry picking to me.

 

[jWILL253]

Go set fire to some cop cars then, not your neighbor's laundromat or diner. How about that?

We're talking about freedom from injustice, not the Lakers losing in the playoffs...

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This seems like cherry picking to me.

strange fruit

 

[CrazyDogg77]

It's interesting how many of you are willing to come into this thread with your outrage about even the idea of riots, but you don't seem to have anything to say about the continued systematic injustice that's perpetuated in this country. You know, the thing that makes the idea of rioting a thought to begin with.

That's the thing violence and oppression has been parsed out on my people since we got here, but America be damned if Black people respond in kind and this isn't even a call for violence or anything of that sort but you can't be surprised when someone you've been hurting your whole life fights back

 

[thepotatoman]

Beyond the eyewitnesses, i feel the need to once again bring up the audio of the shooting, as verified by a server side time stamp from the audio chat service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiL-E5WAaUU

The 3 second pause in shots makes it very unlikely that he was charging wilson from the first shot to the last shot.

There's also new footage of Wilson walking around the police station 2 hours after the shooting took place, seemingly uninjured.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-v...on-fatally-shooting-michael/story?id=26936378

Hard to even see the "swollen face" that the police were talking about, putting that testimony in question.

 

[captive]

Yeah! Take out your rage and anger at the system on innocent people, businesses, and property. That will win supporters to your cause in positions of power and will further your campaign in a positive way.

I don't have any rage or anger. I'm a white guy that's frustrated and disgusted of the treatment of black people. You're not going to change my mind, history is full of examples where violence was the only answer.
The French revolution
The American Revolution
The American Civil War. Just to name a few.

They weren't rioting though. They were holding secret meetings and organizing militias to effectively counter the British. This violence that has already occurred and will probably occur is nothing like the colonial America you're referring to.

You missed the point, the point was that the British still fucked up the colonists homes and businesses. The other, more important point, was that the colonists got so fed up with the British, and asked repeatedly for independence and were told no, so what did they do? They became violent. According to some here, they should have just waited patiently for things to change.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

i've watched LA burn in 92. it's cathartic, i'm sure, but what does it solve in the end? a city left in rubble and flames. your beef is with the cops and feds; take it to them, not the community at large. there is a grave injustice here that needs to be reconciled, but not by blind butchery.

 

[Volimar]

I expect some will riot, but it will probably only get out of hand if any of the rioters/protesters are killed by law enforcement.

 

[CrankyJay]

You missed the point, the point was that the British still fucked up the colonists homes and businesses. The other, more important point, was that the colonists got so fed up with the British, and asked repeatedly for independence and were told no, so what did they do? They became violent. According to some here, they should have just waited patiently for things to change.

I don't feel I missed the point. You're basically saying the British are the rioters. It's the other way around in this situation.

Violence isn't going to win anyone over. Community leaders need to convince their neighborhoods to get organized and get informed and start voting. Start running for office so you get a fair representation in local government so you can change the policies of the local police departments. Force them to wear cameras. Have a minimum requirement for black officers on the force. Enact zero tolerance policies on cops who break the law.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I don't have any rage or anger. I'm a white guy that's frustrated and disgusted of the treatment of black people. You're not going to change my mind, history is full of examples where violence was the only answer.
The French revolution
The American Revolution
The American Civil War. Just to name a few.


You missed the point, the point was that the British still fucked up the colonists homes and businesses. The other, more important point, was that the colonists got so fed up with the British, and asked repeatedly for independence and were told no, so what did they do? They became violent. According to some here, they should have just waited patiently for things to change.

Different because reasons.

Or maybe it's just when it comes down to it, they just don't care about the current status quo, and are perfectly fine with things continuing as they are. For all the people bemoaning violence and rioting, they sure don't seem to have any other proposed solutions.

By the way: Voting isn't the fucking answer.

EDIT:

IViolence isn't going to win anyone over. Community leaders need to convince their neighborhoods to get organized and get informed and start voting. Start running for office so you get a fair representation in local government so you can change the policies of the local police departments. Force them to wear cameras. Have a minimum requirement for black officers on the force. Enact zero tolerance policies on cops who break the law.

Like fucking clockwork.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I don't have any rage or anger. I'm a white guy that's frustrated and disgusted of the treatment of black people. You're not going to change my mind, history is full of examples where violence was the only answer.
The French revolution
The American Revolution
The American Civil War. Just to name a few.

And I can counter with lots of revolutions that replaced one fucked system with another fucked and corrupt system, with bloodshed and needless death in the middle.

Shall we keep having these sophomoric calls for the watering of the tree of liberty?

Consider this: If riots and looting breaks out, where do you think they'll be most successful at destroying things and harming people, in Florissant, Ferguson, and Hazelwood, or Ladue, Clayton, and Town & Country?

Rioting and looting is just going to be a self-inflicted wound, and after the rage and anger dies down in a month, nothing will have changed.

Alternatively, get people in North St. Louis to start showing up to the polls. Get legitimate community activists elected to positions with actual power. Is it going to be tough? Yes. Is the system corrupt? It is, and it will make it even tougher, but it will provide a chance. The rest of it will come with time and education of younger generations that aren't going to cling to the prejudice's of their elders. Some will, as they always do, but by and large we, as a country, as slowly moving towards tolerance and understanding. Look at the protest in the Loop, lots of young white people showing solidarity with young black people.

Thinking that the people of Ferguson will be able to emulate the fucking French Revolution isn't going to result in the change you want.

 

[CrankyJay]

Different because reasons.

Or maybe it's just when it comes down to it, they just don't care about the current status quo, and are perfectly fine with things continuing as they are. For all the people bemoaning violence and rioting, they sure don't seem to have any other proposed solutions.

By the way: Voting isn't the fucking answer.

EDIT:



Like fucking clockwork.

You swoop in complaining about people denouncing violence yet you have no solution yourself except violence. What are you doing here?

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Different because reasons.

Or maybe it's just when it comes down to it, they just don't care about the current status quo, and are perfectly fine with things continuing as they are. For all the people bemoaning violence and rioting, they sure don't seem to have any other proposed solutions.

By the way: Voting isn't the fucking answer.

So what are your contributions to society?

Alternatively: What are you wearing to the riots, so we can be on the lookout for you on the tv/youtube broadcasts.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

You swoop in complaining about people denouncing violence yet you have no solution yourself except violence. What are you doing here?

Check my post histoy.

I've made several suggestions about evening the playing field for black americans.

I'm here because I'm tired of people handwaving injustice behind stupid shit like, "get out to the polls".

So what are your contributions to society?

Alternatively: What are you wearing to the riots, so we can be on the lookout for you on the tv/youtube broadcasts.

I won't be rioting. I'm not from St Louis and I work in the evenings. My contrubitons to society include paying my taxes, voting in elections (no matter how fruitless they may or may not be), and attempting to educate friends, family members, and even strangers on the Internet as to how fucked up things are in the US and how they can be better.

I'm not reinventing the wheel, but I can sleep at night knowing I do my small part.

 

[PopeReal]

Violence isn't the answer. Peaceful protests aren't going to change shit either. The police will continue to do what they want because a majority of Americans are not effected by the abuse and corruption.

 

[jamesinclair]

Almost no one here wants violence. Including the Brown family. What's so hard to understand? I got married in Ferguson. I had my wedding reception there. All black owned businesses. And they want nothing more rhan change. But they don't want their life's work and family legacy destroyed. Get it through your heads. No one here wants what you're advocating. Go fuck up your own neighborhoods.

What if only the homes of the Ferguson police officers are targeted? The ones who facilitate that regime of racial targeting? Most of whom do not live in Ferguson.

 

[Velcro Fly]

What if only the homes of the Ferguson police officers are targeted? The ones who facilitate that regime of racial targeting? Most of whom do not live in Ferguson.

Then the odds are very high we're going to have children targeted and hurt.

 

[thepotatoman]

Check my post histoy.

I've made several suggestions about evening the playing field for black americans.

I'm here because I'm tired of people handwaving injustice behind stupid shit like, "get out to the polls".

I'm here because it's one of the few places where you're not going to be drowned out by bullshit about there being no evidence or that the evidence proves Wilson's innocence. The problem isn't that the system keeping us down. The problem is that most people are ignorant and/or racist about the whole thing.

People need to be educated, but they can't be if the whole discussion is trapped behind whether or not rioting is ok.

 

[CrankyJay]

Check my post histoy.

I've made several suggestions about evening the playing field for black americans.

I'm here because I'm tired of people handwaving injustice behind stupid shit like, "get out to the polls".

I won't be rioting. I'm not from St Louis and I work in the evenings. My contrubitons to society include paying my taxes, voting in elections (no matter how fruitless they may or may not be), and attempting to educate friends, family members, and even strangers on the Internet as to how fucked up things are in the US and how they can be better.

I'm not reinventing the wheel, but I can sleep at night knowing I do my small part.

does that include advocating to your parents and friends violence as a means of change? They must be real proud of you. And you have the fucking nerve to call my post stupid.

You think random violence and rioting is going to change anything? How about organized violence? How about organized anything? You have a fucking massive majority of a people capable of electing their own representatives to local government and you call that stupid?

Stupid is kicking and screaming in violence like a child. Aspire for more, dude. You aren't doing your part at all.

 

[jWILL253]

The irony is that whenever we bring these issues up in a political space, we're told that we're race baiting, that there shouldn't be affirmative action in politics, and that, once again, we should wait for a better time. In other words, we get dogshit responses to our concerns, then told we should keep bringing this up the same way to get even more dogshit responses.

I've stepped in a pile of dogshit enough times to know dogshit when I see it...

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Some people don't care about things that affect them

or sit back and enjoy the benefits while wagging their fingers

it's to be expected

 

[Wthermans]

Best of luck to the protestors.

 

[Malyse]

Some people don't care about things that affect them

or sit back and enjoy the benefits while wagging their fingers

it's to be expected

Yeah. Threads bout what I expected. Considering posting that Dr. King quote again and seeing if anyone reads it this time.

 

[Mesousa]

Michael Brown's mother has asked people not to riot, at least respect that

That being said

Change is a violent process, and removing the rotten pus of systemic racism and abuse of power that gives rise to a Ferguson police force won't be pretty, no matter what form it takes

Sadly its beyond her son at this point. This isn't even about Michael Brown. It is about EVERY brother who is victim to the oppressive system. LA civil unrest was not just about the Rodney King.

 

[PopeReal]

I would hope that the people getting angry about possible future violence from protesters are equally angry at the violence already commited by the police.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Since we all know what's gonna happen...

Whenever I see the updates in this thread, I keep thinking of all the people on GAF who think the plights of people of color in America all break down to simple mental illness and a misunderstanding of both the victims ("He was no angel") and the accused ("We have to see it from his perspective"/"What would YOU do in that situation?"). I keep thinking of all the times people told me that because Obama got elected, racism is no longer a thing (despite the continued discrimination, the erosion of the Voting Rights Act, White officers killing unarmed Black people, the idea that every Black victim in these cases were considered by "some" to be nothing but thugs and never received the benefit of the doubt, the idea of slavery being a good thing being propagated by conservative media, etc.). I keep thinking about the sentiment felt by some that most police officers are good, and that you can't blame all the good ones for the actions of the bad ones (despite the fact that it works opposite for the Black community. When one person of color commits a crime, the entire community is considered responsible for that person's actions, upbringing, parental choices, etc).

I also think about the civil rights movement in Jim Crow times and how much we accomplished. Then, I just remember that it's all for naught, because I don't really see a difference between then and now. For me, racism started out as an implicit kind of thing. But, as I get older, it seems to get more and more blatant every day. And the worst part about all of this is that people still expect my people to be kind and courteous, and still expect us to go on about our business and "wait for a better time". We're expected to have "nuanced discussion" about issues like this. Like none of us feel angry and hopeless to the point of causing violence to others, as well as ourselves (Hint: All the inner city violence, ratchetness, and all around fuckery you see in our community is due to the aforementioned anger and hopelessness. Hard to be positive when everyone is telling you "You ain't shit, and never will be shit").

There is no such thing as "nuance" in a discussion about racism in America. It's simply a Black and White issue; "right" and "wrong", if you will. Asking the persecuted to be considerate about the opinions and lives of the persecutors is akin to an insult. Asking me to place myself in Darren Wilson's shoes is infuriating. Because people like me are in Mike Brown's shoes, or Trayvon Martin's shoes every day we walk out of the house. Asking me to be considerate of someone with a gun, a badge, a bullet proof vest, plenty of backup, and a nice salary to take home? Nah. I can't relate to that. But, I can relate to someone in a hoody, with nothing but some change and some candy in his or her pocket, hoping to make it to his or her next destination with no bullshit poppin' off.

Finally... I keep thinking of this "new black" shit I've been hearing from certain Black celebrities lately. This idea that not only are Black communities completely responsible for their plights, but also the idea that said celebs are somehow above it all and transcend the effects of racism in America just because they made it. It's another way of telling us that they no longer don't care about the communities that they grew up in. A subtle, but much more effective "Fuck you" among all the other "fuck you's" we've been getting. The only time they care is when it can give them a photo op, or a bit more positive PR, or even a few likes on Instagram. They think they are above it all.

It all just reminds me of the beginning of the song "Turn Off the Radio" from Ice Cube's first album, AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted. "A message to the Oreo cookie: No matter how much you wanna switch, here's what they think about you..."

What I'm trying to say with all this is... nobody seems to care anymore. The police don't give a fuck. The politicians don't give a fuck. Influential celebs don't give a fuck. The press stopped giving a fuck until now. And the only time they give a fuck is when they tell us to be calm and wait until everything has cooled down to discuss our plight. Here's the thing, though: we reluctantly oblige, but then this shit happens. When they announce that Darren Wilson will walk, it'll be another "Fuck you" on top of all the other ones. They will be telling us exactly how they feel about us, what they think about us and our plight. They only give enough of a fuck to raise the alarm prematurely, you know, just in case some niggas get rowdy and boost on some PS4's.

The people of Ferguson know this all too well.

Well... I have a feeling that they are about to make everyone give a fuck real quick. And after all that's happened... honestly, who can blame them? I certainly won't...

I felt them feels, fam. Carry on.

In case anyone was under any illusions: it's still open season. Watch ya backs, bruhs.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

does that include advocating to your parents and friends violence as a means of change? They must be real proud of you. And you have the fucking nerve to call my post stupid.

You think random violence and rioting is going to change anything? How about organized violence? How about organized anything? You have a fucking massive majority of a people capable of electing their own representatives to local government and you call that stupid?

Stupid is kicking and screaming in violence like a child. Aspire for more, dude. You aren't doing your part at all.

I don't recall advocating for violence. In fact, I don't think anyone here has done that. I think there are a bunch of people here who are fed up with the continued lack of justice and have said that if it comes to violence, so be it.

And yes, my parents are very proud of me, thank you for asking. I'll say it again, ending systematic discrimination isn't going to be achieved by a racial minority voting in local elections. The problems here go deeper than an election. Voting isn't going to fix it.

This idea that "violence never solves anything" is a flawed notion that needs to be retired. You can understand that violence has been an effective tool in the past for changing paradigms without also calling for violence.

 

[FiggyCal]

Check my post histoy.

I've made several suggestions about evening the playing field for black americans.

I'm here because I'm tired of people handwaving injustice behind stupid shit like, "get out to the polls".



I won't be rioting. I'm not from St Louis and I work in the evenings. My contrubitons to society include paying my taxes, voting in elections (no matter how fruitless they may or may not be), and attempting to educate friends, family members, and even strangers on the Internet as to how fucked up things are in the US and how they can be better.

I'm not reinventing the wheel, but I can sleep at night knowing I do my small part.

Don't be that guy.
Edit: Because I'm that guy and it's as fruitless as voting.

I wasn't trying to disrespect you.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Don't be that guy.

I'm not sure what you mean. :/

EDIT:

Oh!

Yeah, I know. I'm becoming more disenfranchised to the political process, but I still go out there and do it, for better or for worse.

I was concerned that I misrepresented myself in my post. No worries!

 

[Angelus Errare]

I would hope that the people getting angry about possible future violence from protesters are equally angry at the violence already commited by the police.

They're not. They'll simply say "yea the violence sucks, but if you're patient and vote things will change!" whatever the fuck that even means.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I don't have any rage or anger. I'm a white guy that's frustrated and disgusted of the treatment of black people. You're not going to change my mind, history is full of examples where violence was the only answer.
The French revolution
The American Revolution
The American Civil War. Just to name a few.


You missed the point, the point was that the British still fucked up the colonists homes and businesses. The other, more important point, was that the colonists got so fed up with the British, and asked repeatedly for independence and were told no, so what did they do? They became violent. According to some here, they should have just waited patiently for things to change.

This is the truth. Just look at how the peasants that fled the monarchies of Europe to establish America came upon their revolution; nearly genociding the Native Americans, and killing hundreds of thousands of British soldiers and their allies in the Revolutionary War.

The only people who champion for non-violent revolutions either don't want revolutions (either b/c they're weak or benefit from how things are at the present), or are ignorant and naive. Humanity is just as brutal as usual, it's just that we now have trends and technology that have pacified the mind and domesticated us.

We've been lying to ourselves in saying that we've become better and learned from past mistakes, but those lessons have come about in the wrong ways. The roots of all the problems still exist, but boons in economic opportunities, political canvassing and advancing technology have just been stop-gapping/band-aiding the problems or diverting attention from them more than anything.

Any real revolutions are going to involve a lot of bloodshed, and lots of hurt feelings. You just have to hope you're on the winning side, and hopefully that's also the right side.

 

[Kettch]

Are you taking political science 101 this semester or next semester?

I remember Erasure advocating for Dennis Kucinich in the lead-up to the...2004 elections I believe? I kind of doubt he's of college age.

 

[Mesousa]

Don't be that guy.
Edit: Because I'm that guy and it's as fruitless as voting.

It feels like that sometimes haha but just know it does work if you keep at it.

When you speak to young brothers and sisters you know they WANT revolution, many just don't have the knowledge to say it in words. Just keep educating and you will see the fruits of your efforts.

 

[RyanDG]

They weren't rioting though. They were holding secret meetings and organizing militias to effectively counter the British. This violence that has already occurred and will probably occur is nothing like the colonial America you're referring to.

I would say that this is false.

They were rioting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

 

[CrankyJay]

I would say that this is false.

They were rioting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

I meant rioting as their sole means to enact change, but yeah, you got me there.

Random violence isn't going to solve anything though. Organizing and dismantling the local police force might open some eyes and ears though.

 

[sphagnum]

I only hope if it comes to violence that it's not futile.

 

[Malyse]

Riots would show the world that the black american is fed up. Y'all got to remember the world is watching and if a town gets razed and or its citizens massacred over racial tension? Dude, race would no longer be a side topic, it would be the whole discussion. No one would be talking about anything else and every damn body would be aiming to fix racial politics in America. Couldn't avoid it anymore.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

I won't be rioting. I'm not from St Louis and I work in the evenings. My contrubitons to society include paying my taxes, voting in elections (no matter how fruitless they may or may not be), and attempting to educate friends, family members, and even strangers on the Internet as to how fucked up things are in the US and how they can be better.

I'm not reinventing the wheel, but I can sleep at night knowing I do my small part.

Ok, thank you for your contributions to society!

Though I have no idea how you can say voting wouldn't have an impact here when participation in Ferguson in municipal elections is terrible. Elections which led to the hiring of this police chief, who hired and trained wilson. I get you, the impact of elections are not always visible, but in this case, it seems pretty easy to me to say that they are. If more minorities voted in Ferguson, then the city counsel would be more reflective of the constituency there and would likely have not hired such a buffoon as a police chief and his gaggle of questionable officers. These dots are not hard to connect.

 

[SliceSabre]

I only hope if it comes to violence that it's not futile.

It would be if there is. Why do you think the National Guard has been called in already?

 

[Velcro Fly]

Riots would show the world that the black american is fed up. Y'all got to remember the world is watching and if a town gets razed and or its citizens massacred over racial tension? Dude, race would no longer be a side topic, it would be the whole discussion. No one would be talking about anything else and every damn body would be aiming to fix racial politics in America. Couldn't avoid it anymore.

Do you really think that is how the media in America is going to portray things?

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Riots would show the world that the black american is fed up. Y'all got to remember the world is watching and if a town gets razed and or its citizens massacred over racial tension? Dude, race would no longer be a side topic, it would be the whole discussion. No one would be talking about anything else and every damn body would be aiming to fix racial politics in America. Couldn't avoid it anymore.

nah, shit happened in LA with little-to-no consequence.

 

[Mesousa]

nah, shit happened in LA with little-to-no consequence.

That was over 20 years ago. The world has changed, and the 24 hour social media networks would force a change.

 

[King Cobra]

The only thing violence is going to accomplish is to get more people to side with the police. My empathy fades rather quickly when I see a family business get looted and burned down.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If there are riots, American media will treat them as they've been largely discussed in this thread

 

[HORRORSHØW]

That was over 20 years ago. The world has changed, and the 24 hour social media networks would force a change.

if you think so.

 

[sphagnum]

It would be if there is. Why do you think the National Guard has been called in already?

Oh I know rebellion will be crushed, there's no doubt about that. I just mean I hope it leads to something greater and isn't just a spark that gets snuffed out. We need a second civil rights movement.

 

[CrankyJay]

Riots would show the world that the black american is fed up. Y'all got to remember the world is watching and if a town gets razed and or its citizens massacred over racial tension? Dude, race would no longer be a side topic, it would be the whole discussion. No one would be talking about anything else and every damn body would be aiming to fix racial politics in America. Couldn't avoid it anymore.

You'd need a riot in every major American city simultaneously before the world would take notice.

 

[Angelus Errare]

If there are riots, American media will treat them as they've been largely discussed in this thread

If only they rioted for a real cause...like some fucking pumpkins. Media would treat them differently. :3