Yaphett Kotto
Member
Hopefully whatever website or news station they are using is on the right side of history. Would suck for people outside the US to parrot the same bullshit people inside the country say.
Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue
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Hopefully whatever website or news station they are using is on the right side of history. Would suck for people outside the US to parrot the same bullshit people inside the country say.
He was shot multiple times, the first apparently while the scuffle happened. The fatal shot was afterwards when he started to run away, then allegedly turned around and rushed forward. And I could have sworn there was talk of him being shot while running away.
thezerofire
Banned
It also allegedly happened when he was on his knees, and that version seems supported by way more people who have much less at stake here
I think there was discussion on whether he was shot or whether he was shot at, but I don't know if there was a conclusion on the timing of what shots did or didn't hit him while he was running away
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Do we know if the arm wound came from the front yet? The august report said a glancing wound like that was unknown for the entry and exit point.
Even if so, the autopsy only proves that he wasn't hit from behind. He could have been fired at from behind. And witness testimony all confirmed that the killing shot was from the front, as his hands were up, which is the biggest part, so it's not like the autopsy changes anything.
And even if we say that it's 100% certain brown grabbed for the gun, which is very possible, it still does not explain why he would run away, turn around, and charge an officer that has a gun pointed at him, and has proven the willingness to shoot him as he's already done so.
The moment in the car does not matter at all. And what happened as Brown was running doesn't really matter that much. What matters is the moment that Brown was killed, and there is nothing to disprove the overwhelming witness testimony there.
Its extremely distressing to me to see how so many people need brown to have been a complete saint in order to deserve justice, and for there to be not just probable cause like most grand jury need, or not just beyond a reasonable doubt like most guilt charges need, but scientifically proven as fact before a trial can even take place. That's so freaking messed up I can't even handle it.
Future PhaZe
Member
to be fair we've been saying this for a while now and there's no political action taking place to keep these situations from repeating themselves
The world's watching tonight. If they use their toys they will lose much faster.
Remember the Selma marches around bloody sunday. The police are literally on the wrong side of history.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
They did not need an excuse before...
I hope people go out and vote so they are truly represented in their local government.
jamesinclair
Banned
Peaceful protests are always highly successful. We have a finely tuned justice system that always prevails in the end.
Just look at what happened when the black guy minding his own business was shot and killed in a Walmart. Justice was se- ...oh.
Oh hey, remember when people came together peacefully to protest the lack of legal action against the people in Wall Street who destroyed millions of lives. That ended we- ....oh
Just look at what happened when the black guy minding his own business was shot and killed in a Walmart. Justice was se- ...oh.
Oh hey, remember when people came together peacefully to protest the lack of legal action against the people in Wall Street who destroyed millions of lives. That ended we- ....oh
Carnby
Member
Are you taking political science 101 this semester or next semester?
You mean that one guy who lives in the area and understands that there were a dozen eye witnesses who back up the cops story? Black eyewitnesses who fear for their safety and only talked to the FBI?
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
9 white/3 black. 9 people have to vote to convict.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Peaceful protests don't do anything.
Rioting can get you shot or arrested.
What is the alternative?
The answer is nothing, and that's what happens when the deck is stacked against you before you're even born.
I wish these assholes would hurry up and end this farce. I'm tired of it being prolonged.
Edit:
Just keep on keeping on! It'll happen someday!
it's never going to happen
I doubt that.
CesspoolofHatred
Member
We would actually need competition in our state legislatures first.
AstroNut325
Member
I'm really really really hoping things remain peaceful. People getting hurt is not an answer to this... regardless of result.
I was wondering if the jury was Mississippi circa the 60s and its frighteningly close.
Do you know whether this is representative of the local level at Ferguson or state? I can't believe that this is a local jury pool with a makeup like that.
You can doubt it all you want. It's been reported numerous times in the local media. People at large criticize CNN and other national media sources for being fear mongers yet you guys are only hearing their bullshit in regards to Ferguson as well. There's a ton of info out there put out by the Post Dispatch but CNN never cites them.
ReignofSparrows
Member
This is the point I tried to make when this thread was more active, and very few people wanted to focus on it.
If multiple eyewitnesses say Brown put his hands up to surrender and the physical evidence is consistent with that possibility, it would just be maddening to not see this go to trial. There would be no legal justification for it, despite what many armchair lawyers in this forum have posited. It just gets frustrating seeing people debate about stolen cigars or gun residue when none of it is relevant if Brown was manifesting an intent to surrender.
Ferguson is almost 70% black.
If you view progress in single year prisms, you'll always appear to never have movement. If you pull the camera back and look at larger spans of time, you'll see the march of progress is unrelenting.
It may seem hopeless, but time has shown us that it never is.
It's only enough when they testify or provide sworn statements to police. Going to TV/Social Media/etc isn't the same as swearing under oath that their witness statement is the truth and if they lie they can face charges.
So if they did give their sworn statements then I would agree that they need indict. But as far as I know, the only witness that has testified has been one that supports the officer's story.
They definitely wouldn't lie. I mean it's not like they got Brown's juvinile record unsealed or anything.
Even in the days of the plantation, no black person has ever lived in fear of ratting out people who look like them for the benefit of the establishment.
They can live in fear if they are hiding and being fed a narrative to give the FBI though...Makes you wonder.
I've seen that figure floating around. I'm just wondering if this is a state grand jury or a local one, as I don't think a 9 white and 3 black spread is representative of a town where 70% of the residents are black.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
This is a St Louis county grand jury, not a ferguson grand jury. The 3/12 is roughly representative of the racial breakdown of the county.
Except I'm looking at 50 years, not one.
So again, when?
And there's been a shitload of progress in that time. If you're trying to suggest things are anywhere as bad now as they were back then, bad as they still are, then it's not going to be something taken seriously.
To say nothing of all the other civil rights milestones that have been reached in the interm.
Progress is not complete; tons of progress has been made and will continue to be made.
In a riot, all that will occur is innocent people will have their business and homes damaged, people completely unrelated to this whole mess, and maybe someone will get hurt too. None of it will speak highly at all to the issue of what went wrong with this whole mess.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I don't want to be fucking hearing about riots from people that plan to sit behind their keyboards in their nice warm homes. If you're really that pissed off, and I know I am, you need to draw up some signs and get down to your local capital building or wherever protests are likely to take place and do something about it.
When get down down there and start to realize how futile rioting would be, and how risky it to your own safety, then I'm sure you'd change your mind. I mean i'm fucking pissed, and I fully understand the want to riot, but that's just not what you should do. This is doubly true if you're white and have the unfair privilege of having cops give you the benefit of the doubt as black people get punished for your selfishness.
Likely there'll be others there that you can talk through your frustrations with, and make contacts for you to do what you can to help in the future. Even if you're the only one there, that just proves people don't know or care enough about it, and you can do what you can to get people on your side.
I know I don't give a shit if I'm the only one out there. I just know I have to do something, and hope others do the same.
When get down down there and start to realize how futile rioting would be, and how risky it to your own safety, then I'm sure you'd change your mind. I mean i'm fucking pissed, and I fully understand the want to riot, but that's just not what you should do. This is doubly true if you're white and have the unfair privilege of having cops give you the benefit of the doubt as black people get punished for your selfishness.
Likely there'll be others there that you can talk through your frustrations with, and make contacts for you to do what you can to help in the future. Even if you're the only one there, that just proves people don't know or care enough about it, and you can do what you can to get people on your side.
I know I don't give a shit if I'm the only one out there. I just know I have to do something, and hope others do the same.
Rajack
Member
No, I hope they fucking don't riot because I live near there. You're assuming he's actually guilty, and that's not how things work in this country. By saying you want them to riot you're saying you want innocent people to get hurt over something they have no connection to, its a rotten thing to say and wanting that to happen makes you an awful person. People get hurt badly in riots and people even die in riots; you should never want that.
Ah, it's county. Thank you for clarifying. Kind of a shitty deal for Ferguson residents.
Did Dr.King change his mind about fighting for civil rights when he got to selma and saw how "Risky it was to his own safety?
Don't think for a second brothers in this thread talking are not also deeply involved in revolutionary action. The revolution is not strictly on the streets.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Selected from a county-wide pool of registered voters.
Including genders it's six white men, three white women, two black women and one black man.
EDIT:
As pointed out below, the county is St. Louis, which is 70% white.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Ferguson benefits considerably more from being associated with St. Louis County than vice versa.
wow...just.......wow.
MLK rioted?
Rajack
Member
Absolutely, Ferguson is a municipality on life support and without st. louis county backing them they'd probably be about as bad off as East St. Louis.
The mainstream narrative at that point was definitely one of King and his "Band of troublemakers" causing trouble were similar to how the protestors now are being painted.
Really appreciate the info and pardon my ignorance. I haven't been following this as closely as I should have. The outcome affects all of us regardless of race.
The city of Ferguson is 30% white while the county of St. Louis is 70% white.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Did Dr.King change his mind about fighting for civil rights when he got to selma and saw how "Risky it was to his own safety?
Don't think for a second brothers in this thread talking are not also deeply involved in revolutionary action. The revolution is not strictly on the streets.
Well, then get behind your convictions and say "i'm planning on rioting". Don't just hope for other people to make that risk for you.
Ah, my bad, point taken.
Yeah I'd like to know too.
Its funny, the part you bolded, because that's exactly what happened in this thread when there were riots. Lots of people came in with the "I agree something needs to change but rioting is not the answer"
I'm of the mind if riots are what it takes, then fucking riot. The only problem I have is of course the white moderate is going to condemn the rioting and just say see, they are just animals instead of looking at why the people there would be so angry about something that they want to riot.
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