Support NeoGAF

[Head.spawn]

So, what is this shit?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGA9WK2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Do they just cancel your order or something?

 

[Kimosabae]

The only thing hilarious is your need to rely on a utilitarian ethics model to help yourself not feel bad. That's sad. Own up to your shitty practice. At least people earlier in the thread had the balls to say "I don't care about that guy's job, I'm getting mine."

Yeah I relied on an established thought system to justify my position and you're relying on ad hominems and strawmen. I'm convinced.

 

[Nafai1123]

I'm looking at this from an ethical perspective. Like the person who put up fake stores on Amazon to gain the system is different than a person who saw a price error at Sears and also tried to gain the system.

Right, but what about the people that see the price on Amazon and use it to price match? They didn't put the scam up on Amazon. They are merely taking advantage of it, just like those who took advantage of the Wii U deal.

 

[Solid SOAP]

$60? Omfg wow.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Right, but what about the people that see the price on Amazon and use it to price match? They didn't put the scam up on Amazon. They are merely taking advantage of it, just like those who took advantage of the Wii U deal.

And ultimately at the expense of someone's paycheck, bonus, or even job.

 

[Terranwolf]

So, what is this shit?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGA9WK2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Do they just cancel your order or something?

If you order through amazon, yeah. Looks like someone (or a group of people) are rapidly setting up accounts and listings to keep this running, hoping you price match at Wal-Mart until they instantiate a ban on price matches for consoles.

 

[Dr.Acula]

And ultimately at the expense of someone's paycheck, bonus, or even job.

That's kinda bullshit they're possibly punishing employees for corporate policy. What should they do, refuse the price match and get fired?

 

[Remark]

NeoGAF stay mad while I play on my $90 PS4 and $60 Wii U. Who winnin' I'm winnin whew

Spoiler

I wish :'(

 

[Anion]

Right, but what about the people that see the price on Amazon and use it to price match? They didn't put the scam up on Amazon. They are merely taking advantage of it, just like those who took advantage of the Wii U deal.

I'm saying if they honesty didn't know it was a scam then yes they are the same as the Sears price glitch people. I'm primarily saying the people who put up these fake stores are the issue here.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Is this like a new trend or something? Jesus Christ, I've never seen it so bad before, but at the same time I've never really paid attention.

That's kinda bullshit they're possibly punishing employees for corporate policy. What should they do, refuse the price match and get fired?

It's a slippery slope, I suppose. Employees at Walmart aren't required to get permission from the manager or anything, right?

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

People trying to compare this to a legitimate price match surely aren't thinking straight. If another actual company prices something up and you get a price match that's fine. But going out of your way to set up a fake price for a price match is just a pure dick move.

 

[Nafai1123]

And ultimately at the expense of someone's paycheck, bonus, or even job.

Potentially yes. So I'm assuming that every time we see some too-good-to-be-true deal online now, we should cry foul for anyone that takes advantage of it? I mean it's going to cost someone their job for screwing up right?

 

[Remark]

I'm saying if they honesty didn't know it was a scam then yes they are the same as the Sears price glitch people. I'm primarily saying the people who put up these fake stores are the issue here.

Yeah I would agree with this tbh. Put the blame on the people who put up the fake listings

 

[DoktorEvil]

That's kinda bullshit they're possibly punishing employees for corporate policy. What should they do, refuse the price match and get fired?

Lie.

Tell customers they are out of stock.

Give out rain checks for when the next shipment is available.

As long as people keep creating false listings on Amazon's end, there will be people trying to game the system.

 

[Niter]

How is this not a fruad when you create the fake listing to get the price matching? Error on sears.com or other sites? I think that's a fair game. Right?

 

[Majmun]

So, what is this shit?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGA9WK2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Do they just cancel your order or something?

Is this causing the Ps4 Amazon sales surge?

 

[Fisty]

Last time I checked, the utilitarian ethics model was worth considering, and it's a hard case to make to consider a corporate entity a human being. If people lose their jobs for following a corporate policy, you don't look to blame the consumers taking advantage of the policy, you blame the authors of punishment. Their principles need to be reviewed.

When consumers make faulty decisions for whatever reasons when doing business with corporations I don't see people running to the consumers defense in those cases: "Should've read the fine print!" "Should've done your research!".

This is some hilarious white-knighting and i'm actually going to see if I can take advantage of this today, in fact.

While i wouldnt personally take advantage of this, I agree about the top bit. If someone loses a bonus over this, its on Walmart. Its their policy, the employees were following protocol and were deceived by fraudulent or erroneous ads, like many consumers surely were.

Walmart needs a better policy, I can see if an employee sold maybe 50 ps4s in one day yes maybe look into that. But as a rule Walmart should not be punishing employees for this, and the upset in the thread over this is misdirected

 

[Pilgor]

Never said it wasn't, it's just not outright theft in my eyes. That doesn't not make it fraudulent, however.

It is outright theft, at least in Illinois. I'd wager it would be in most other states as well.

720 ILCS 5/16A‑3: Offense of Retail Theft.

A person commits the offense of retail theft when he or she knowingly:

(a) Takes possession of, carries away, transfers or causes to be carried away or transferred, any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale in a retail mercantile establishment with the intention of retaining such merchandise or with the intention of depriving the merchant permanently of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value of such merchandise

 

[Starwolf_UK]

This is similar to a thing that people do against Music Magpie here in the UK. Music Magpie is a website you can sell CDs, DVDs, games etc to (and then not get paid half as much as they're mysteriously in bad condition now). They run the online seller account zoverstocks on Amazon. Now zoverstocks always tries to be the cheapest listing so it scans the other listings by price and charges £0.01 less. What some people have been doing is putting up box only listings of games then buying the copies from zoversocks as they drop. The main difference is machines are easier to fool than people.

So, what is this shit?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGA9WK2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Do they just cancel your order or something?

They will cancel. Take the massive rating drops that come from cancellation (they don't care it was a throwaway account). But they are able to see your delivery address.

On the side of Amazon I can see them doing things to make opening a marketplace account harder.

 

[prag16]

I agree with this completely. Sears messing up is a WAY different situation than fake Amazon listings. There's a very thick line between the two.

If someone else takes that price listing, and in bad faith, goes to another retailer with intent to deceive them into thinking it was a legitimate selling price, in your mind that's fine, as long as the original listing was an egregious error, and not a straight up fake listing?

That stance doesn't make sense.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Potentially yes. So I'm assuming that every time we see some too-good-to-be-true deal online now, we should cry foul for anyone that takes advantage of it? I mean it's going to cost someone their job for screwing up right?

With knowledge of the potential harm you could bring onto someone, you're merely becoming part of the problem by trying to dupe someone into giving you something for significantly cheaper.

Is it partially Walmart's problem for using a pricing system with loopholes? Yes. But it's also your fault for using that knowledge to someone else's detriment.

 

[Kimosabae]

Wait, so are people intentionally putting up fake listings to price match? How does that happen? I thought the Amazon prices were just employee mistakes or glitches. If people are consciously gaming the system that's different.

 

[Pilgor]

Wait, so are people intentionally putting up fake listings to price match? How does that happen? I thought the Amazon prices were just employee mistakes or glitches. If people are consciously gaming the system that's different.

Yes.

 

[SSReborn]

I did not realize that Walmart gave employees bonuses. Are you a cashier or a something higher like a manager? I know it can be considered rude, but would you mind me asking what sort of range the bonus can be?

Walmart has like a sales goal for each store every year. So say for example it's 365 million or w.e and any overage that they accrue over that gets split among the associates up to 2000 dollars each. So if they make like 5 million more than that goal it'll be split across the associates. I believe that's how the bonus system works. So they kind of give you an incentive to keep sales up this way.

 

[big_z]

All Walmart has to do is price match only amazon and not third party sellers.

I'm surprised people were able to get it for the price though. Usually walmart requires manager override and they tend to deny anything that seems like an error.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

It is outright theft, at least in Illinois. I'd wager it would be in most other states as well.

720 ILCS 5/16A‑3: Offense of Retail Theft.

A person commits the offense of retail theft when he or she knowingly:

(a) Takes possession of, carries away, transfers or causes to be carried away or transferred, any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale in a retail mercantile establishment with the intention of retaining such merchandise or with the intention of depriving the merchant permanently of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value of such merchandise

In addition, because retail value is more than $300, it becomes a class 3 felony.

If he chose to leave the establishment through an emergency exit, whether running or not, it would be bumped up to a class 2 felony.

 

[Zaku]

While i wouldnt personally take advantage of this, I agree about the top bit. If someone loses a bonus over this, its on Walmart. Its their policy, the employees were following protocol and were deceived by fraudulent or erroneous ads, like many consumers surely were.

Walmart needs a better policy, I can see if an employee sold maybe 50 ps4s in one day yes maybe look into that. But as a rule Walmart should not be punishing employees for this, and the upset in the thread over this is misdirected

Not really.

It's a matter of applied ethics and morality.

Some people object to a "fuck it, got mine" mentality, and others embrace it.

Pretending that your actions will never effect someone is part of the "fuck it, got mine" mentality, and putting the blame on someone else for your actions because it's technically within the rules is also part of the "fuck it, got mine" mentality.

Personally, if I know doing something will cause hardship for someone else because of a third party's policies, I feel like I share a burden of that hardship even though it's not my policy.

 

[Netprints]

Its hard to tell what is a legit seller. This seller is now selling ps4 and xbox at 305. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main/ref=olp_merch_name_1?ie=UTF8&asin=B00BGA9WK2&isAmazonFulfilled=0&seller=A2H8D3I5KTTFG5

Most likely another scammer. lowering the price 100 bucks cheaper to make it looks more legit.

 

[Kyzer]

This thread reminds me of the salt related to console reselling, and how personally people took it.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Lie.

Tell customers they are out of stock.

Give out rain checks for when the next shipment is available.

As long as people keep creating false listings on Amazon's end, there will be people trying to game the system.

That will 100% get you fired from a retail job.

Walmart needs to change their policy to allow managers to use discretion. If they want to refuse a price match because they're unwilling to match, there should be no problem with that. They shouldn't need to lie to customers.

 

[Head.spawn]

Its hard to tell what is a legit seller. This seller is now selling ps4 and xbox at 305. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main/ref=olp_merch_name_1?ie=UTF8&asin=B00BGA9WK2&isAmazonFulfilled=0&seller=A2H8D3I5KTTFG5

Most likely another scammer. lowering the price 100 bucks cheaper to make it looks more legit.

Could be someone unpacking two game + PS+ bundles.

 

[Nafai1123]

With knowledge of the potential harm you could bring onto someone, you're merely becoming part of the problem by trying to dupe someone into giving you something for significantly cheaper.

Is it partially Walmart's problem for using a pricing system with loopholes? Yes. But it's also your fault for using that knowledge to someone else's detriment.

Why stop there? Shopping at Amazon is a detriment to all local business in your area. You knowingly decide to shop there anyways for convenience/price, therefore it's your fault people are losing their jobs at local retail. The same is true of shopping at Walmart, or any of the big brand stores. If I buy a foreign car because it's cheaper than an American car, I'm knowingly contributing money to a different country instead of my own, thus reducing the number of jobs in the US.

 

[Netprints]

Could be someone unpacking two game + PS+ bundles.

It could be, just hard to tell. This seller just went up.

 

[MrCunningham]

Congratulations on the theft!

And he's so proud of himself, too. Ugh.

Walmart error in your favor. Collect a $50.00 PS4. It's not really theft, just a loophole in one of Walmarts policies.

 

[cRIPticon]

The consumers won.

Fuck big corporations.

 

[Head.spawn]

If you order through amazon, yeah. Looks like someone (or a group of people) are rapidly setting up accounts and listings to keep this running, hoping you price match at Wal-Mart until they instantiate a ban on price matches for consoles.

Fuck!! I was just on the phone with Best Buy, trying to get them to price match. They said they would at first, then they refreshed the page and then the listing disappeared.

:/

 

[Kimosabae]

How does Amazon et al scan/supervise the listings? Seems strange that this seems to be a happening just now.

 

[The Cartographer]

"We're committed to providing low prices every day," reads the Walmart website. "On everything. So if you find a lower advertised price on an identical product, tell us and we'll match it. Right at the register."

Oh lord, seriously?

It's like they're fucking asking for all this shit.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Yeah I relied on an established thought system to justify my position and you're relying on ad hominems and strawmen. I'm convinced.

How does scoring yourself a cheap console serve the greater good? What is it's Utilitarian purpose?

It's been a long time since I took an Ethics class so I am fuzzy on this, but I recall Utilitarianism working much better in a Macro sense (Government policies that affect a large population) and breaking down on a personal basis. This was because Utilitarianism is outcome based and a single person rarely has a wide enough perspective to in any way accurately judge the outcome on their actions.

So how could you possibly know that deceiving Wal-Mart into giving you an $80 PS4 serves the greater good?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Yeah I relied on an established thought system to justify my position and you're relying on ad hominems and strawmen. I'm convinced.

I mean that would make sense if you were applying the thought system correctly. The approval/rejection of the policy is handled at a local level. There's not some head honcho in Wal-Mart HQ validating these price-claims, it's Associate/Manager Joe Average at the individual retail locations, ringing it up. The situation is handled completely at the local level, and is up to local jurisdiction.

This means that, yes, the low-level employee fucked up and you're taking advantage of their ignorance. If you're fine with taking advantage of this guy, over a fraudulent listing, do you. But don't act like you're not doing anything wrong.

Stop trying to act like this is anything grander than that.

 

[cRIPticon]

Oh lord, seriously?

It's like they're fucking asking for all this shit.

The site also says that the final decision on the price match rests with the store manager.

 

[RecursiveFault]

The affects the store-level employees more than the upper corporate staff. So yeah, FUCK THOSE STORE-LEVEL PLEBIENS...MY CHEAP PS4 IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR BONUSES THAT MIGHT DICTATE WHETHER THEIR CHILDREN HAVE AN OK CHRISTMAS OR NOT.

If I were a WalMart manager, I would take one look at this, say NOPE and be on my way.

No kidding. Like Walmart is who you're stealing from. Yeah right.

 

[nynt9]

thats a poor defense. Its a scam.. the person doing it knows its a scam.

Just as this is a poor counter argument. Is it really a scam? They did not violate any policy. This is more like a clever flexing of the rules. That being said, I would not do this, but that doesn't mean it's obviously ethical or unethical. It's a gray area. Yes, it's super shady, but it is legal both by the law and the policies of the respective companies.

The question is: is it a citizen's legal or moral duty not to exploit vulnerabilities in the policy of a corporation? An argument can be made both ways.

 

[The Cartographer]

The site also says that the final decision on the price match rests with the store manager.

Ah ok, that makes sense.

 

[Shig]

I am sure Wal-Mart officially doesn't, and I doubt they trained their employees/managers to look if the product is shipped and sold by Amazon.

Either way, I would never do something like this. But I just find it funny how we as consumers who get fucked over and over again are hesitant to do a scam like this, when the company has fucked over the population as a whole and will continue to do so without giving a second thought. I am sure I am rambling on here.

Fun-house mirror time: When you really boil it down, Walmart's leeching effects on society actually owe more to them skewing too aggressively pro-consumer. Their hellbent race to the bottom on prices, their lax return policies, their unoppressive hands-off store security, their lackadaisical attitude on vetting price matches, their overall willingness to bend and break to please (often irrationally) upset customers... these are all fantastic for the consumer in the here and now.

But they all combine to form the Voltron of other retailers bowing out because they can't keep up, increasingly shit retail wages, pared-down workforces that ask way too much of their employees for their pay grades, suppliers of other jobs moving production out of the US because they can't make margins otherwise and still keep retailers happy, and retail employees being increasingly trapped because this whole domino effect keeps local job markets shrinking.

 

[gai_shain]

Altering the price of an item, and then paying the lower price for that item is literally a felony.

so the guy setting up that fake price on amazon and the people taking advantage of it are accomplices now?

 

[prag16]

Just as this is a poor counter argument. Is it really a scam? They did not violate any policy. This is more like a clever flexing of the rules. That being said, I would not do this, but that doesn't mean it's obviously ethical or unethical. It's a gray area. Yes, it's super shady, but it is legal both by the law and the policies of the respective companies.

The question is: is it a citizen's legal or moral duty not to exploit vulnerabilities in the policy of a corporation? An argument can be made both ways.

So entering into a transaction in bad faith with an intent to deceive is fine? Just a gray area?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Just as this is a poor counter argument. Is it really a scam? They did not violate any policy. This is more like a clever flexing of the rules. That being said, I would not do this, but that doesn't mean it's obviously ethical or unethical. It's a gray area. Yes, it's super shady, but it is legal both by the law and the policies of the respective companies.

The question is: is it a citizen's legal or moral duty not to exploit vulnerabilities in the policy of a corporation? An argument can be made both ways.

I would love to see your arguments.

 

[SSReborn]

The affects the store-level employees more than the upper corporate staff. So yeah, FUCK THOSE STORE-LEVEL PLEBIENS...MY CHEAP PS4 IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR BONUSES THAT MIGHT DICTATE WHETHER THEIR CHILDREN HAVE AN OK CHRISTMAS OR NOT.

If I were a WalMart manager, I would take one look at this, say NOPE and be on my way.

This is basically what it is. Walmart as a company is still likely gonna make their sales projections. The store employees are mostly gonna be effected.

 

[DoktorEvil]

That will 100% get you fired from a retail job.

Walmart needs to change their policy to allow managers to use discretion. If they want to refuse a price match because they're unwilling to match, there should be no problem with that. They shouldn't need to lie to customers.

You're right, they shouldn't need to, but considering the pace at which fraudulent listing keep popping up on Amazon, what else is a Sales Associate or manager supposed to do?

Someone is going to throw a shitfit in the store if they don't price match and that'll hurt the employees even more.