Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
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Poroshenko (link, google translate from DE):
That's kinda funny that if you think that there will be an OFFICIAL russian attack there will be no troops. The only thing ukraine army is gonna see in the Poroshenko's "worst scenarios" are high-precision rockets like Х-55 which can hit a target from 2500 km meaning that they can be launched from russia as well as Iskander ballistic missile system which hit a target from 500 km. After air defense systems are destroyed then goes aviation which will sweep clean everything making it a comfort zone for troops to come in which will hardly encounter any resistance.
I guess, only the Poroshenko's understanding that Putin won't send actual russian forces is what allowing Poroshenko to be so bold claiming that his army which can't deal with separatists are ready for a war with a nuclear power nation. He resembles to me a toy-terrier dog barking at a big dog which doesn't even pay attention to him.
That's kinda funny that if you think that there will be an OFFICIAL russian attack there will be no troops. The only thing ukraine army is gonna see in the Poroshenko's "worst scenarios" are high-precision rockets like Х-55 which can hit a target from 2500 km meaning that they can be launched from russia as well as Iskander ballistic missile system which hit a target from 500 km. After air defense systems are destroyed then goes aviation which will sweep clean everything making it a comfort zone for troops to come in which will hardly encounter any resistance.
I guess, only the Poroshenko's understanding that Putin won't send actual russian forces is what allowing Poroshenko to be so bold claiming that his army which can't deal with separatists are ready for a war with a nuclear power nation. He resembles to me a toy-terrier dog barking at a big dog which doesn't even pay attention to him.
MisterFalcon
Member
Maybe with some ballistic missiles to help them out they can finally take the Donetsk airport.
I don't really believe there's anything to take or to call an airport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFklARxjx1c#t=274 It is a big place of ruins constantly getting shelled by both sides. But yes, you're right, ballistic rockets may help rebels to kick off ukraine artillery which shelling the territory of the airport, but I doubt Putin will give 'em those. You need professionals to use 'em effectively, ukraine army seems to be hardly able to hit anything by the OTR-21 Tochka which they've got a lot from the soviet times.
You learnt it the hard way didn't you?
If I were an Ukrainian solder I might had answered yes. This is CNN talking about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-8KvtfjZA:
Resident_UA
Member
Lol. Do you expect missiles to capture cities and keep the order there. Do you even know what you are talking about? Of course if there's "official" war between Russian and Ukraine Russia will win, but Ukraine won't make it easy for them. Especially afterwards with resistance within the cities.
US technically "won" in Iraq too. Look how that turned out.
Failed to see logic here. Shooting at your enemy is acceptable. Missing and killing 298 civilians for example really isnt.If I were an Ukrainian solder I might had answered yes. This is CNN talking about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-8KvtfjZA:
Phantast2k
Member
Right Setor became neo-Nazi while its Jewish members were on vacation?
Also this regarding Right Sector:
http://forward.com/articles/202181/my-hunt-for-the-cossacks-in-ukraine/
http://liveuamap.com/en/2014/19-oct...sector-and-jewish?ll=46.47783;30.74919&zoom=8
Just as my friends told me back when shit hit the fan in Odessa:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110408572&postcount=1248
___________Some news I thought were interesting:
Welp...
From the interview Putin gave to German tv: Russia won't allow Ukraine to 'destroy' opponents, says Putin - Yahoo News
English translation from the Kremlin: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23253
BBC News - Poroshenko: Ukraine rebel areas to lose state services
Russian Soldier Caught in Ukraine Disappears on Way Home, Parents Say
Putin Sends His 'Leopard' to the Battlefield of Eastern Ukraine
The talk is of this special purpose apc which was spotted in E. Ukraine:
Some more input:
Vice accuses Ukraine of: 'A Rain of Fire': Ukrainian Forces Used Little-Known Soviet-Era Incendiary Weapons to Attack Iloviask | VICE News
EU targets Ukraine separatists but is split on more Russia sanctions - ohh snap, now they won't be able to see the Eiffel tower in person...
Slightly OT:
Putin's Secret Agents: Torture Allegations By Chechen Dissident
Also Putin looked like complete shit before leaving G20:
Wow, now this is a series stuff, Ukraine has none of it. Now for sure they can do shit against rebels unless direct military equipment aid from US or NATO. One this little APC can make a high-precision shelling from holiday fireworks.Putin Sends His 'Leopard' to the Battlefield of Eastern Ukraine
The talk is of this special purpose apc which was spotted in E. Ukraine:
The Foreign Policy article made it clear that Ukraine has a handful of them, but none of them have been captured or used in Eastern Ukraine.
They used ballistic rockets, but didn't use artillery aiding APC which can help drastically increase artillery efficiency, wherein artillery is a main weapon in this war. Either they are all broken beyond repair or sold to someone. I cannot make up a reason for not using them against rebels which have artillery and tanks themselves. IMHO, It would gave Ukraine army an upper hand. Though, I'm not an expert, may be they are just useless in that kind of war, in that case there's no reason to worry about rebels having ones.
MisterFalcon
Member
Since the artillery shooting at Ukrainian forces is located in Russia the artillery finding radars are of little use as firing on these would immediately lead to a full scale Russian invasion.
From Donetsk beyond which Ukraine forces are located it is more than 50km to russia, whereas a rocket launcher (e.g.) can hit only 45km using latest rockets. Artillery hits a way less distance than rocket launchers. So, it is not possible for a rocket missile to reach Donetsk from russia not saying reach Ukraine forces beyond Donetsk not saying for a artillery shell to do it.
So, Ukraine forces are shelled from within Ukrainian rebel territory which territory Ukraine forces didn't mind hitting by ballistic missiles, so there's no reason not to use the artillery finding radars, unless they sold 'em to someone or do not know how to use 'em or repair 'em.
Here is recent stuff, in Ukrainian city called Zaporizhia Ukrainian nationalists (men) humiliating a woman with screams "Glory to Ukraine!" which had worked as a town council lawyer (before the change of government): link. Video embedded into the news. Four masked man bullying a young woman that's surely is so much Glory to Ukraine.
EricTheCleric
Member
what is the source of that video?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/ukraine-admits-its-gold-gone
I remember reading the story about Ukraine's gold reserves going awol during the coup. Kind of brushed it off at the time as a fog of war story. Guess it might end up being true.
If that happened in such an organized and stealthy fashion, makes you wonder who are the operators behind the initial coup. Definitely not the people in the streets...
I remember reading the story about Ukraine's gold reserves going awol during the coup. Kind of brushed it off at the time as a fog of war story. Guess it might end up being true.
If that happened in such an organized and stealthy fashion, makes you wonder who are the operators behind the initial coup. Definitely not the people in the streets...
Umm.. Russia has rocket artillery with a maximum range of 100 km. So they could and have easily shelled Ukrainian forces.
E.x - The BM-30 Smerch and/or 9A52-4 Tornado
EricTheCleric
Member
again what is the source of that video?
The car on the left has plates that belongs to Donetsk Oblast and not Zaporizjzja Oblast where Zaporizhia is located.
EricTheCleric
Member
EricTheCleric
Member
Putin has said that Russia helped Yanukovych flee, they probably brought a lot of this along as well.
Lots of news on the Crimean front today. A Russia Today story leads with this:
The Guardian and Bloomberg Businessweek have articles about the wave of forced nationalizations that have swept Crimea since the takeover.
Also:
Russia has called for "a 100% guarantee that no-one would think about Ukraine joining Nato", President Vladimir Putin's spokesman has told the BBC.
The Guardian and Bloomberg Businessweek have articles about the wave of forced nationalizations that have swept Crimea since the takeover.
Also:
Russia has called for "a 100% guarantee that no-one would think about Ukraine joining Nato", President Vladimir Putin's spokesman has told the BBC.
Phantast2k
Member
After they forced their way with Ukraine's EU integration (forcing EU & Ukraine to postpone it for a year) they utter this threat (in the context of the whole interview, read below).
And obviously they are trying to openly dictate a sovereign country what to do and what not to do. This is definitely a new diplomatic escalation. It seems like we are getting very close to an all out war when they're adopting this kind of language..
Here's the segment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADFrdiSPaMo
Listen carefully to what he says: he denies any presence of Russian military on Ukrainian territory and talks of a Western-orchestrated coup d'etat in Ukraine (so no more Nazis?) which prevented Russia from staying neutral.
This whole coup made things "very tense" and then he goes on and admits that "Russia will continue to make it much more tense" when Russian interest is at stake.
And then when asked about Latvia and whether or not the same scenario could happen in Latvia, he goes on saying that if a coup d'etat were to be orchestrated in Latvia and were to be accepted by Brussels then "there is a great danger for Latvia" (as far as the aforementioned scenario goes in which Russia could not remain neutral and which they continue to make tense). This is pretty much an admission of their involvement in the whole "sudden rise of the Russians in Ukraine"...
And it certainly doesn't help their case that he comes off as a Bond villain.
Puttin himself uttered this gem today:
And also give it up, America!
Vladimir Putin vows that United States 'will never subjugate Russia' - Telegraph
Also there were 10mins of ceasefire:
Violations registered in Mariupol which is pretty much besieged by Russian forces.
Tour the Destruction of a Ukrainian Battlefield Through the Eyes of a Drone | Motherboard
Shows destruction in & around Donetsk airport. Near the end, the drone appears to be shot at.
The footage of the Ukrainian apc being destroyed is from this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyNqp2zwQc (around 4m) - Eng. title, no subs though.
Ukraine relaunches their old Cold-War era drones (Tu-141):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1JUxMMnITU (this seems like the official Ukrainian mil. youtube channel)
And huge Cold-War era self-prop. artillery (2S7 Pion):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHfn0HqZsE&t=2m30s
A rumor on the MH17 (though pretty detailed):
Looking at the comments, I'm once again very impressed by the ability of the pro-Kremlin crowd to upvote the pro-Russia comments. They manage to do it on just about every news websites, in multiple languages. They must really be working overtime.
If I didn't know about their modus operandi, I'd be convinced that the entire world is waiting for Vlad to liberate them from the western nazis.
It helps to have paid people for that.
Phantast2k
Member
Sort of breaking mh17 news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYEH6Tfzouo
The Russian Cossack leader admits to this wiretap recording (at least the part with him) being correct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw - so much for it being fake (this lend more credibility to the rest of the wiretaps by the Ukrainian intelligence agency). He also says that a missile took it down, but won't comment on who did it..
However, there is still this:
Simon goes on to investigate about the possibility of an Ukrainian plane hiding behind mh17. Though I'm not sure how a ground attack plane (which Russia pointed to right after the crash, an SU-25) was supposed to hide behind a passenger jet in 10km altitude.
It's the same in Germany, no need to scroll down to the comments section on news about Ukraine, Russia, the US or the EU.
/
Russia Today's Graham Phillips: Journalist or Combatant? You decide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwha_11wp9A
//
The War In Ukraine Is Killing Lots of Russians — War Is Boring — Medium
The Russian Cossack leader admits to this wiretap recording (at least the part with him) being correct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw - so much for it being fake (this lend more credibility to the rest of the wiretaps by the Ukrainian intelligence agency). He also says that a missile took it down, but won't comment on who did it..
However, there is still this:
Simon goes on to investigate about the possibility of an Ukrainian plane hiding behind mh17. Though I'm not sure how a ground attack plane (which Russia pointed to right after the crash, an SU-25) was supposed to hide behind a passenger jet in 10km altitude.
You're welcome. Though I feel like it's time for a Cold War II OT or something.
It's the same in Germany, no need to scroll down to the comments section on news about Ukraine, Russia, the US or the EU.
/
Russia Today's Graham Phillips: Journalist or Combatant? You decide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwha_11wp9A
//
The War In Ukraine Is Killing Lots of Russians — War Is Boring — Medium
From this site:
"Vasilieva estimated that as many as 4,000 Russians have died in Ukraine, based on information she has obtained from her Facebook group".
Why not to make 100,000? Or 1 million? This is just so lame. It is hardly possible in this world to conceal a death of a single person and there it goes FOUR THOUSANDS? This is nuts. Just see what happened after the death of A SINGLE person Mr. Magnitsky: there was a fucking U.S. Congress act about it!
But here, you have FOUR THOUSAND people claimed dead! Every one of them have a family, friends, army mates, school mates, colleagues etc. so this 4000 should be multiplied at least by 10 as to how many people should be silenced. In our informational world it is just not possible. There would be dozens US Congress acts and everybody would go crazy and CNN with BBC would be listing names and showing interviews with said family, friends, army mates, school mates, colleagues 24/7.
MisterFalcon
Member
Four Thousand sounds high, that's 1/3rd of the total deaths in Afghanistan. But mothers who ask questions why so many of their sons die in training accidents are designated foreign agents and jailed.
EricTheCleric
Member
Russia(ns) create fake Ukraine newssites.
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/...websites-run-by-russian-troll-army-offshoots/
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/...websites-run-by-russian-troll-army-offshoots/
I dont think 4000 sounds high at all. This is not Afghanistan. This is normalized wafare. Not superior numbers versus small terrorist groups in the hills. Ukraine has lost almost 3000 personnel themselves. You have tanks and apcs engaging, modern artillery and rocket systems etc.
MisterFalcon
Member
Good point, I guess we'll find out after the conflict is over.
It is funny to see the pro-Russian side rage out at the suggestion they could lose so many men to the cowardly incompetent Ukies.
It is funny to see the pro-Russian side rage out at the suggestion they could lose so many men to the cowardly incompetent Ukies.
I would not think it's hard at all to hide that many deaths. There is virtually no free media left in Russia and the govt has started restricting the internet as well. It's different than in the USA where the media has free reign.
In the long run, it might be hard to hide, even for them. But right now the conflict has not been going on long enough to really make it that hard to control information.
They are fighting a offensive war on a limited front without air support while trying to hide their involvement. That's like trying to fight a professional boxer with one hand tied behind your back and he knows where you are going to attack him
In the long run, it might be hard to hide, even for them. But right now the conflict has not been going on long enough to really make it that hard to control information.
They are fighting a offensive war on a limited front without air support while trying to hide their involvement. That's like trying to fight a professional boxer with one hand tied behind your back and he knows where you are going to attack him
In 2008 russia lost 67 dead against US-trained-and-equipped georgian troops. But here you have a sold-out soviet piece of disorganized army which is so bad that it in 2001 officially shot by mistake russian civil plane over a black sea as a training procedure and which doesn't even have warm pants as yesteday said Ukrainian minister of defense. That's one thing. The other thing is that there is no a single proof of russian army being here. None of OSCE observers reported it, neither UN reported it. Only NATO sees russian army here without being capable of showing it to others.
Really, people, where did you get that nonsense? Show me what US "free media" reports what is not reported by russian media. Really, show me what government of russia doesn't let me see. Once you show me that US-free-media PIECE OF REAL TRUTH, I will provide you with a link to the same news in russian "government controlled" media.
Those 2 are completely different conflicts. One was a 4 day offensive by "proper" Russian army units on a country of 5 million people. The other, piecemeal reinforcement of a slow and drawn out war against a country of 50 million that had plenty of time to mobilise its resources.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
In 2008 Georgia lost 169 troops. The scale is not remotely similar.
EricTheCleric
Member
MisterFalcon
Member
'The US equipped Georgians' calls up an image of the Russian army rolling over an enemy who have Abrams tanks and Apaches but in reality the Georgians had a bunch of Humvees and the same former Soviet stuff that was invading them.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Do people really think Russia has lost 4,000 men in Ukraine, are you kidding me. Man delusion is starting to set in on some of you, whether or not the media is free in Russia the families of 4000 young men are not all going to stay quiet, it doesn't matter if you are China (and Russia is not near China when it comes to restricting information).
The Russian military that invaded Georgia is VASTLY different from the one you see today, the Russian military of today are better equipped in every sense with better training. Hell the current build up was as a result of (what they considered) a Humiliation suffered at the hands of the Georgians. There is no doubt Russia is sending in weapons in drove, but if the Ukrainians were fighting the Russian military proper the whole east will have fallen by now. At most Russia has sent in a couple of hundred Soldiers of which tens not thousands have died.
The Russian military that invaded Georgia is VASTLY different from the one you see today, the Russian military of today are better equipped in every sense with better training. Hell the current build up was as a result of (what they considered) a Humiliation suffered at the hands of the Georgians. There is no doubt Russia is sending in weapons in drove, but if the Ukrainians were fighting the Russian military proper the whole east will have fallen by now. At most Russia has sent in a couple of hundred Soldiers of which tens not thousands have died.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
No, I don't think 4,000 Russian army personnel have died in Ukraine, the scale would seem quite off. But the person we are talking to is making terrible arguments, as though a 5 day conflict with Georgia was some kind of meaningful benchmark to compare something against. The two conflicts are different in scale, they are different in duration, and they are different in nature.
It's quite obvious the Russian military hasn't deployed divisions in Ukraine. That not the same as saying there weren't or aren't any Russian personnel there, however.
There have been reports of secret graveyards and such. The source of this was a Russian newpaper btw - not western media.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28949582
lol .. just because you remove your identifications and a little flag from your uniform isn't the same as not being from the Russian army. And ofc the Russian soldiers that invaded Crimea (a part of Ukraine) they where not Russian either.. damn my brain, I keep forgetting these things.
Russian forces were in Crimea since 1783 and never left since that, a whole marine fleet of it. Officially. When this all started it was obvious that it was russian forces who didn't let a revolution take place in Crimea the way it happened in Kiev. Russian forces performed professionally in Crimea and NO ONE get killed on any side. In East of Ukraine it was not russian forces it was bullshit, that is why thousands died.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
I recognize that.
Ofcourse there are secret graveyards, but there aren't Thousands of graveyards. Tens is more than believable, hundreds is hardly believable, thousands of graves is Delusional.
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