I wasn't previously aware of the very, very racist parts of reddit.
- Thread starter Khalifa Jayy
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nintendork666
Member
CrushDance
Banned
What is the benefit of discussing about niggers and monkeys?
It only matters when it affects them or their image.
Probably the best part, but reddit isn't doing anything about the horrors on their site so it's unproductive.
I asked "who" not "what".Who should be responsible for enforcing this across the entire Internet? And things like child porn are already persecuted since that is straight up illegal.
Hate speech and the such is a much more gray area. I'd rather things stay how they are than having some overarching establishment infringing our First Amendment rights and going after anything that may be seen as offensive.
CrushDance
Banned
The internet isn't just about America though. Some of us would welcome stricter internet policing, if people aren't willing to do it themselves.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
How much good and worthwhile conversation really comes out of protected swamps for ignorance, menace, and borderline illegal (or straight-up illegal) interactions
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Seems a lot of people support fascism so long as they never have to hear things that offend them.
entremet
Member
Stricter internet policing sounds like a scary thing, especially by governments. No thanks.
CrushDance
Banned
I'd rather have that if that's what it takes to be able to browse around without being insulted literally everywhere.
How much good or worthwhile conversation comes out of the internet in general?
You should accept the possibility of being insulted rather than wanting the world to change around you.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Don't you make it your business to express your disgust in every race-related thread?
Depends on where and how you like to spend your time
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I barely post on GAF. Maybe once every couple days or weeks. Aren't you the one posting constantly in every race-related thread with emotionally charged attacks all the time? I mean you could maybe make that accusation of me if I was an active user at all but I'm not.
entremet
Member
I love Youtube for its variety of content and many things posted there offends me. I just ignore most of it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
lol emotionally charged
I don't waste emotion on the kind of tripe that pops up around here
Unless you're going around preaching hateful things, I don't see you having any reason to be against it.
Nice job relating hate speech and offending people. Many things are offensive that aren't racist or hateful, but racist things are always offensive and hurtful.
Free speech shouldn't protect garbage like necrophilia, pedophilia, or racism. Throw sexists and homophobes in there too. Spewing hatred or getting off on the helpless shouldn't be protected.
I can't think of any way stricter Internet policing could be implemented without going down a slippery slope of privacy concerns. If a user wants a more kosher Web browsing experience, I think it should fall on them to not go to places like reddit or read YouTube comments where that stuff is so widespread.
And just like real life, you can't expect to go on forever without getting offended by other people's opinions.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
no, not exactly. from memory there was pretty controversial subreddit called 'jailbait' or similar that exclusively posted pictures of 'barely legal' girls. If I remember right, the top poster there was a real piece of shit that would constantly push the bounds of what was legal and to most he crossed the moral line years ago.
Reddit got into a tricky 'freedom of speech' issue and eventually closed it down I think.
Total Posts: 4,653 (3.64 posts per day)
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Yeah you clearly do dude. The only time I expressed my "disgust" in a race-related thread was at DreamDrop's stupid bait thread a while back. He recently made a thread with a fake news story too, and even you said it was too much. If your posts are not emotionally charged then try your hardest not to come off that way all the time.
How strict is "stricter"? Any middle ground is prone to slippery slope and politically-convenient interpretations.
My country actively censors the internet, polices posts in social media, and jails without trial people who posts mildly inflammatory comment (often used for people who don't support the incumbent government). This is after they enacted laws for a "harmonius" middle ground.
CrushDance
Banned
No. I should not accept that. Asking other people to be more considerate is not asking for the world.
Experience-->Actions--->Words-->Pressure. Does that make sense? It wouldn't be something that didn't bother me if those words and ideas hadn't already impacted my life before. That's what some of you are missing with this. They're not just words or "having thin skin", and even if it were so. The great anti bullying campaign that surges whenever some student or gay person kills themselves, has shown that a lot of people want that to stop anyway. Maybe only if it's for people like them? Because if not. I'm having a hard time understanding why one is fine and the other isn't.
I mean simply getting the government involved and treating the internet like the real world. It *is* the real world anyway. Very little changed in the real world until governments were forced into action. They were content to just watch along with the majority that supported them, until the social fabric became threatened.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
so you're a lurker too! welcome to the fold
and that was only a bait thread if you find racist bait delicious
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
As usual you can't help saying something idiotic and illogical. I think I'll call it a night. Thanks for the conversation Labour.
CrushDance
Banned
That's fair. But in real life, it is rare for someone these days to directly insult you to your face because of your race or gender. Not because it is socially unacceptable, but because there are dire repercussions for doing so. This isn't about being "offended". This is about being devalued and psychologically damaged. Unless the argument is that such things do not affect people at all? Because it does. And research has shown this. Nobody goes out seeking to be curbed, it shouldn't be free reign on the internet either.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
see you in the thread
LouisaFerre
Member
Why should a site be obligated to cater to what you feel is acceptable if you have no ownership over it nor any obligation to go there?
You still didn't answer my question about who should enforce "too much" free speech
Yeah, uh. I made a thread a week or so back asking if anybody had any alternatives to reddit.
Still looking. :\
Still looking. :\
Sadly not everyone is rationally offended. 'Caving in' to everything a particular individual perceives as an insult, or gets offended by, simply doesn't work regarding large-scale censorship.
It would be nice if we never had to hear things we feel insulted by, but unless the world dramatically changes that isn't going to happen. Rather than wanting global censorship the best bet for anyone who wants to avoid feeling insulted is to do their own censorship.
I think you're confusing censorship with something else. If I am offended by something and tell you I don't like it, that's not censorship. It's not censorship even if you decide I have a point and change it.
Anything that offers the choice to the original content producer is definitely not censorship.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
This such a weird fucking dismissal because the internet is probably one if the greatest tools for education created in the history of our time.
entremet
Member
You probably have to wait a few years. These things are cyclical. Digg used to be Reddit in terms of mind share.
That or Reddit could develop a Facebook type monopoly for a bit.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
There are certainly dark corners on reddit but they are easily avoided. There are lots of active, specialized subreddits where I can discuss my hobbies, ranging from carpentry to Transformers to programming.
Dark Ninja
Member
Tell me how you feel about youtube comments
Oh, absolutely, I'm just saying that it produces a far greater amount of garbage than anything productive.
CrushDance
Banned
We have a U.N charter of rights that is perfectly adaptable for this scenario. All civilized countries follow it, so why not enforce the same policies online? You can't dump it at the feet of the subjugated and say "Just stay out of there way". How will things change then like you suggest?
What does a site like chimpout accomplish? It matters because not confronting those ideas(Which you cannot do as a minority without losing your mind) is impossible otherwise. How many white people go onto stormfront and sit there "wasting" the day away arguing against the people there? No action is being taken against people that are purposefully seeking out to destroy others and dehumanize them.
And in case you have never visited some of these sites, there are threads and stickies with thousands of posts, discussing in detail how they've screwed over a minority that week or what the best defenses and tactics are to mess with them. Do you find that sort of behaviour beneficial to society?
The conversations in this thread are giving me way too many MGS2 vibes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92i1nJ2jtnE&list=UU8H2MMobGakfjEP9knRWr_g
And I don't mean that in the sense that people wanting other people to not be racist as fuck are censorship monsters trying to change the internet. But the internet really is its own thing, its own entity, continually spinning because of every person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92i1nJ2jtnE&list=UU8H2MMobGakfjEP9knRWr_g
And I don't mean that in the sense that people wanting other people to not be racist as fuck are censorship monsters trying to change the internet. But the internet really is its own thing, its own entity, continually spinning because of every person.
What? I never said anything about enforcing too much free speech. I said there shouldn't be too much, especially if someone's comfortable with free speech enough to spread hate and harm to innocent people/children/defile corpses.
The sites that allow it should stop allowing it. When these things are flourishing, shut it down, delete accounts, bring on restrictions.
CrushDance
Banned
I'd like to clarify that I view the internet now as no different from the "real world", and that I do not advocate censorship, but rather accountability. These people need to be responsible for the things that they say and often *do*.
entremet
Member
It's almost impossible to enforce your vision, unless you want to end anonymity completely. You're talking about billions of transactions online per day.
Who's gonna enforce that?
You have a few options. Smaller sites like NeoGAF have moderators, but those are full volunteer, none get paid.
Others have a complaint policy. Enough complaints and it gets taken down.
Some are a free for all. That's Reddit.
Even the most heavily moderated sites can only ban you. What type of penalties are looking to have?
LouisaFerre
Member
I don't approve of those sites but that doesn't mean I think the use of force against them is acceptable. If they're violating the rights of others, sure, but not before it reaches that point.
EDIT: Also this isn't "holding them accountable". Having the government shut down their privately owned sites is forcing them to stop. Holding them accountable would simply be ending anonymity so that what they say is tied to their real identity, but even that has a slew of problems.
CrushDance
Banned
I'll be honest and say that I haven't thought it out in detail. It is a lot. I am simply just frustrated with seeing such commentary on even the most innocuous things, and having no means by which to combat them. I do not care to ignore things away. That has never worked. You make a good point of the feasibility of it and the sheer scale of the internet. But if anything, I would advocate by having sites such as chimpout and its ilk shutdown. It is something I feel that would send a very clear message, that such ideology is not tolerated.
There is no website(s) on the internet like any of those against whites. And if there were, I'm doubtful that it would be anywhere near close to the scale of some of these. I'm not sure if it is a question of demographics or "taboo" discussions though.
But some of them are. That is my primary point. If you don't believe the words alone, go and read up regional pages on stormfront and pay attention to the things being said and suggested. It affects real life people. My secondary point ties into the first, and that for me. I find that words often mask intent quite often. Again, not advocating censorship or a police state, but concentrated efforts to stamp out such behaviour. A year or so ago, there was a "blackout" day on the internet because of net neutrality, the internet has been ablaze for the past months on the topic of sexism. Why can we not have the Googles, Facebooks, Reddits, etc. Take a stand against the virulent racist hate on the internet as well? That is what fosters te us vs them mentality and my admittedly "Who cares" attitude towards internet policing. I simply do not see the majority caring enough until it affects them. It's the only thing that will get people to wake up.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
You have the same means to combat it as they used to promote it: Speech.
What do you mean?
People always say that once you get to specialized subreddits, the community is great, but whenever the subject of women are brought up in places like /r/programming, the sexism comes out in droves. The majority of the site has a toxic view of women and minorities.
There used to be a subreddit made for women's voices by women but it was made a default subreddit and now its filled with men's perspectives dominating all discussion.
There used to be a subreddit made for women's voices by women but it was made a default subreddit and now its filled with men's perspectives dominating all discussion.
CrushDance
Banned
Again though, if I were to start a website called "Special snowflakes" and rant about how white people are X and Y. How many members would I get? How many hosting companies would accept it? Ignoring the ethical grossness of it even, that website would be ddosed and hacked within a day. Or, alternatively I could spend a copious amount of time on the internet as I've done in the past, writing blogs or discussing on boards and Youtube(Which we're all supposed to ignore) and affect 0.0000000001% of those people and having my voice drowned out by the majority.
History has shown that it is the voice of the majority that matters when it comes to actually enacting change. Be it interracial marriage(Loving), or civil rights(Whites marching), nothing changed or mattered until whites got involved. That is the sad reality of the situation. Until it affects them, it won't matter. I've been told to ignore it since I was a kid on the playground, I browse the internet in 2014 and see even worse being said.
I mean websites like stormfront. Maybe I missed them completely, but I've never run across anything to that level from any other groups.
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