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[BokehKing]

The game has only been out for 3 months, and the raid for what, 2 now? And I just got an Aethon's epilogue last week, and I'm still missing some raid weapons that really won't serve much of a purpose in another weeks time. Most MMO's don't do this in such a short period of time...

most mmo's aren't dealing with the the attention span of console owners that are hit with the biggest game release season 2 months later.

MCC bombing performance wise was a blessing in disguise

Originally there was supposed to be so many other AAA games out that Destiny was bound to be lost in the shuffle.

I feel bad you only got Aethons Epilogue last week, I got it like 3 times in the first few raids I did (all my raid gear as well)

Then again....I have yet to get an exotic bounty...so things even out that way

 

[Gurrry]

Will the new legendary gear get you past level 30 without having to upgrade your exotics to their new forms? The 5 new exotic weapons don't really look like they will make up for the exotics I would tend to use (Thorn, Last Word, Suros) and I am going to assume that you will need the higher level exotic weapons (or legendaries) to do sufficient damage to the higher level content enemies. Fully maxed current legendaries and exotics do decent damage to same level enemies up to lvl 29 or 30 anyways, but they will probably be comparable to a maxed lvl 20 blue against enemies in the lvl 31 to 32 range.

In the end, I will probably never do the raid anyway so if I can adequately complete the strike missions on hard difficulty without having to jump through hoops with the gear I already have, then I will be happy for a week or two. I got all three classes up to lvl 28 and then felt there was no more reason to play outside of the raid - I suspect that lvl 30 or 31 will be the new 28 and lvl 32 will only be necessary for raid content.

Bro if youre still playing and you havent even done VOG... I dont even... Youre doing gods work. Or something like that.

Seriously, the raid felt like the monumental moment I had been gearing for, and it was satisfying.

Until I noticed it becoming more and more of a chore rather than fun due to the repetition. I can only deal with Atheon so many times before I lose my mind.

 

[Marcel]

I think she has a point, but it's not so easy to catch unless you have a good knowledge of mmo and mmorpg.

I don't see the point. Destiny has something to teach, uh, The Elder Scrolls Online maybe? Because the big boys in MMOs should take nothing from Destiny and its extremely padded-out progression systems.

 

[Sweet Ivy]

Right, but after a certain point, the PvE missions DO become grinds, because they're all there is to do. I wonder if there are stats on how many times I've played each Strike.

With most MMOs I've played, the leveling/progression system is intrinsically supported by the amount of content available. Occasionally you have to grind to get to a high enough level to enter an area, but for the most part, they are designed intelligently: your level organically matches where you "need to be" in the story/missionset.

Well, I would have put that under lack of content, maybe is just a different way of looking at things.

 

[veloxStrix]

What do you mean?

I mean that every thread involving Destiny follows this formula.

>Destiny news
>The majority of Neogaf: "Destiny is awful, Bungie doesn't know how to make game."
>Later on in the day, said majority is online playing anyways.

If the game is that bad, don't play it, I guess?

Of course, then you have the OTHER spectrum which are the people who have barely played it, and get on every thread just to say how bad it is.

I think Destiny is solid. Here is the issue with Destiny.

It's a huge fucking time sink. And a lot of people don't realize it. They are like, "I've done everything 100 times! This game is so boring!" Well, you've done everything 100 times, so that might be your issue. Take a break. I know people who have played the game almost a month in real time. :l

A lot of people (not including me) haven't done the raid more than once or twice. Destiny still has a strong userbase, and I believe the PvP is one of the best that are available (not sure if this is really a compliment or more an acknowledgement of lack of quality console FPS).

 

[IcyEyes]

I don't see the point. Destiny has something to teach, uh, The Elder Scrolls Online maybe? Because the big boys in MMOs should take nothing from Destiny and its extremely padded-out progression systems.

It's not a problem if you don't see the point, I think she have one and I agree with her (I posted a message few minutes ago, so I will not write that again!)

 

[StrongBlackVine]

No matter what way you cut it you were going to have to re-level your equipment, I don't think anyone didn't expect that. The only gun that doesn't need to be re-leveled is the Mythoclast because it's the hardest gun to get in the game. So either you were going to find a new 323 exotic and have to level that, or if you didn't like any of them (or didn't want to wait to find one) you can pay Xur a shard and he'll upgrade the one you already have.

No matter what you were going to have to re-level.

I didn't expect to have to re-level my exotic guns from scratch and my legendaries becoming junk. I expected a minor upgrade.

 

[benicillin]

I didn't expect to have to re-level my exotic guns and my legend . I expected a minor upgrade.

If you could just throw a shard at your gear and re-level it, what reason would you have to earn new exotics and gear?

 

[IXIKelsonIXI]

Oh Bungie...what have you done. This thread:

 

[Marcel]

It's not a problem if you don't see the point, I think she have one and I agree with her (I posted a message few minutes ago, so I will not write that again!)

I read your thing about "dead times" (your only point despite saying you examine "everything" about MMOs) and it's a statement that's so vague and general that it could apply to any game that's played online, MMORPG or otherwise.

 

[Afrocious]

I mean that every thread involving Destiny follows this formula.

>Destiny news
>The majority of Neogaf: "Destiny is awful, Bungie doesn't know how to make game."
>Later on in the day, said majority is online playing anyways.

If the game is that bad, don't play it, I guess?

Of course, then you have the OTHER spectrum which are the people who have barely played it, and get on every thread just to say how bad it is.

I think Destiny is solid. Here is the issue with Destiny.

It's a huge fucking time sink. And a lot of people don't realize it. They are like, "I've done everything 100 times! This game is so boring!" Well, you've done everything 100 times, so that might be your issue. Take a break. I know people who have played the game almost a month in real time. :l

A lot of people (not including me) haven't done the raid more than once or twice. Destiny still has a strong userbase, and I believe the PvP is one of the best that are available (not sure if this is really a compliment or more an acknowledgement of lack of quality console FPS).

That's a shame. Enjoy it I guess. Personally, I feel gross for even buying this game digitally to support such bullshit they're throwing at you and others like you.

 

[Admiral Snackbar]

Why doesn't this bother me at all?

I could spend time Raiding and hoping for a gun I want. Or I can take a gun I know I like, that I already have, and get the damage buffed. How long does it take to cap a gun with ten bounties a day? You'd have to level a new Exotic you found in a raid anyway.

Would you rather have your Exotics be subpar for new content? What is the rage about? Waiting on Xur, lame, 100%. Spending the new material on the swap? Could be better. But it's not worth the the knee-jerk fury it's getting. Someone said it's 'Prestiging' your weapon. I think that makes perfect sense.

 

[benicillin]

Why doesn't this bother me at all?

I could spend time Raiding and hoping for a gun I want. Or I can take a gun I know I like, that I already have, and get the damage buffed. How long does it take to cap a gun with ten bounties a day? You'd have to level a new Exotic you found in a raid anyway.

Would you rather have your Exotics be subpar for new content? What is the rage about? Waiting on Xur, lame, 100%. Spending the new material on the swap? Could be better. But it's not worth the the knee-jerk fury it's getting. Someone said it's 'Prestiging' your weapon. I think that makes perfect sense.

If you have telemetries it really doesn't take that long to upgrade a new weapon. Especially if you count the fact that you have 15 bounties a day you can do, on top of daily heroic and public events. And you don't need ascendant materials (or to farm for materials at all) anymore so leveling an exotic is faster than ever.

 

[the_prime_mover]

Bro if youre still playing and you havent even done VOG... I dont even... Youre doing gods work. Or something like that.

Seriously, the raid felt like the monumental moment I had been gearing for, and it was satisfying.

Until I noticed it becoming more and more of a chore rather than fun due to the repetition. I can only deal with Atheon so many times before I lose my mind.

No, I did VOG a few times, but in the long run I wasn't invested enough to consistent find a group of 6, At the same time people level 28 and above kept quitting on strikes so I tended to just run content solo as it was less hassle. I though VOG was fun, but wasn't really interested in dealing with RNG just so that I could get gear to be level 30 and play more VOG. If some of the rest of the game was at least level 28 then I probably would have stuck around longer (o.k - I did put in over 200hrs across 3 characters), but as it was at level 28 there was nothing except the raid worth doing and grinding easy content for shards and energy was mind numbing.

Looking at the details for the new content; I figure it will be more of the same, but at least the new strikes should keep me engaged for a while. I will probably try the raid on normal a few times just to see what it is like, but I am definitely not interested in grinding in this game any more.

 

[amar212]

Paradox Point has been reached too early and that is thanks to the fact how overall leveling is too fast and majority of content of the game was designed to be +25LV content.

So, they have Impossible Dillema to solve: challenging hardcore that plays and plays and have almost no new challenge and criticizes the game because of that (vocal minority, check the trophies stats and see) or to allow casuals and newcome players to have some progress without timesink.

The newfound solution: punish all of them. Welcome to the Paradox Point.

I would love to be in the shoes of the fresh player that comes into Destiny. Fresh player, with only one friend occassionaly playing. That guy would be LOST AND CONFUSED within one day.

Also, I do not see what will casual majority think about this.

 

[Admiral Snackbar]

If you have telemetries it really doesn't take that long to upgrade a new weapon. Especially if you count the fact that you have 15 bounties a day you can do, on top of daily heroic and public events. And you don't need ascendant materials (or to farm for materials at all) anymore so leveling an exotic is faster than ever.

Absolutely. So it's even less of a hassle. You still have your exotic until you decide to upgrade, then you're leveled simply by doing what you were doing anyway.

Bam, you're competitive again.

 

[Mindwipe]

I have no idea what Bungie is doing.

PR out of the stone age.

Making the grind between 22 - 28 even duller than it already was (and much, much longer).

Seriously, what the hell were they thinking with that Legendary move? Has any player ever said "man, this game would be more fun if legendary acquisition was slower and duller."

It's not even like they're selling F2P shit. They've just made a crappy game and are trying to string out the meagre content.

Everyone who was any good at Bungie must be long since gone.

 

[dmg04]

Either you wait for RNG to gift you a higher damage exotic, or you relevel yours. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

As for legendaries, wish there was a way to do the same.

 

[phen0m24]

If you could just throw a shard at your gear and re-level it, what reason would you have to earn new exotics and gear?

New attributes. Switching elemental damage, for example.

new enemy types

Spoiler

(LOL)

requiring different weapons (burns) etc.

 

[veloxStrix]

That's a shame. Enjoy it I guess. Personally, I feel gross for even buying this game digitally to support such bullshit they're throwing at you and others like you.

I'm fine paying $60 dollars for the speed of updates. I can't think of any company that has had such a quick turnaround on fixes. If anyone even tries to suggest Blizzard has any sense of timeliness, I may laugh so hard I'll fall out of my little chair.

At least they haven't removed any graphical features or somehow managed to make an unoptimized mess. Bungie is new to the FPS/RPG genre, if anyone expected perfection they were fooling themselves. I have high hopes for the sequel regardless of the pitfalls.

And no one can deny that Destiny has the tightest controls of any console shooter out.

 

[KingV]

I'm trying to imagine how long obtaining a purple in every armor slot would take under the new vendor badge system. Currently I am level 26, and have crucible at 2 and vanguard at 0... That took me about 30 hours. In that time I have not gotten a single purple item drop except for a shotgun.

With this system in place I would probably be like level 24 with one legendary piece of armor. The grind to get raid ready would be like 60 hrs.

They need to streamline the path to 30 to keep a pool of players ready for the new raid, while keeping the grind at the high end for the hardcore. Instead they did the opposite. The game will just get even less accessible.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I read your thing about "dead times" (your only point despite saying you examine "everything" about MMOs) and it's a statement that's so vague and general that it could apply to any game that's played online, MMORPG or otherwise.

I'm still waiting for an an explanation I requested a couple pages back.

If "Dead Times" are the only one....then I don't think they've been into MMOs before.

 

[EloquentM]

Why doesn't this bother me at all?

I could spend time Raiding and hoping for a gun I want. Or I can take a gun I know I like, that I already have, and get the damage buffed. How long does it take to cap a gun with ten bounties a day? You'd have to level a new Exotic you found in a raid anyway.

Would you rather have your Exotics be subpar for new content? What is the rage about? Waiting on Xur, lame, 100%. Spending the new material on the swap? Could be better. But it's not worth the the knee-jerk fury it's getting. Someone said it's 'Prestiging' your weapon. I think that makes perfect sense.

Except it's not prestiging your weapon. Prestige would imply you need to max out the weapon to get the buff when this is not true. This method is unfair to people who have spent time already upgrading their items. Imagine you get an ice breaker and I have an ice breaker I fully maxed out. We both take our icebreaker to xur and he ups yours to 300 and keeps mine at 300 but resets my entire perk tree which I must now do over. That's unfair to people who have put an enormous amount of time into the game already for all of their exotics.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Why doesn't this bother me at all?

I could spend time Raiding and hoping for a gun I want. Or I can take a gun I know I like, that I already have, and get the damage buffed. How long does it take to cap a gun with ten bounties a day? You'd have to level a new Exotic you found in a raid anyway.

Would you rather have your Exotics be subpar for new content? What is the rage about? Waiting on Xur, lame, 100%. Spending the new material on the swap? Could be better. But it's not worth the the knee-jerk fury it's getting. Someone said it's 'Prestiging' your weapon. I think that makes perfect sense.

It would be "prestiging" if you had to level it up twice for the extra boost. As it is now, a fresh non-upgraded exotic is worth the EXACT SAME as a fully levelled exotic. It's bonkers. There should be something extra you get for grinding those exotics considering the pure time sink it was to do so. Whether that's carrying your experience over in to the new one, or adding an extra tree to the pre-existing one or giving you exotic shards in the exchange. Something.

 

[Mindwipe]

Paradox Point has been reached too early and that is thanks to the fact how overall leveling is too fast and majority of content of the game was designed to be +25LV content.

So, they have Impossible Dillema to solve: challenging hardcore that plays and plays and have almost no new challenge and criticizes the game because of that (vocal minority, check the trophies stats and see) or to allow casuals and newcome players to have some progress without timesink.

The newfound solution: punish all of them. Welcome to the Paradox Point.

I would love to be in the shoes of the fresh player that comes into Destiny. Fresh player, with only one friend occassionaly playing. That guy would be LOST AND CONFUSED within one day.

Also, I do not see what will casual majority think about this.

Well, I'm probably that casual minority - I don't have much time to play, and I'm still at level 25 despite purchasing on launch day. The only reason I'm still playing is some misguided masochistic sense that I should level up enough to do the raid and get at least some meagre value from this game.

But now the course of me getting more legendaries to level up to that point has now been what, tripled? At least? Fuck this shit.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

If you could just throw a shard at your gear and re-level it, what reason would you have to earn new exotics and gear?

Because the new guns would be fun to use, have unique perks and are useful in different situations...not just because they have higher base damage. The same reason I acquired and maxed out so many weapons in the vanilla game.

 

[IcyEyes]

I read your thing about "dead times" (your only point despite saying you examine "everything" about MMOs) and it's a statement that's so vague and general that it could apply to any game that's played online, MMORPG or otherwise.

It's a very relevant factor.

I'm still waiting for an an explanation I requested a couple pages back.

If "Dead Times" are the only one....then I don't think they've been into MMOs before.

Your attitude is not so nice, so, I think you will never get any explanation if keep this way to act.

I'm in a Professor Layton mood today

 

[purg3]

most mmo's aren't dealing with the the attention span of console owners that are hit with the biggest game release season 2 months later.

MCC bombing performance wise was a blessing in disguise

Originally there was supposed to be so many other AAA games out that Destiny was bound to be lost in the shuffle.

I feel bad you only got Aethons Epilogue last week, I got it like 3 times in the first few raids I did (all my raid gear as well)

Then again....I have yet to get an exotic bounty...so things even out that way

But I did get my raid armor in about 2 weeks time and along with VoC, so it's all good. And to the person that brought up WoW, I don't believe they introduced Tier 2 items only 3 months after Vanilla released. But that doesn't really matter because this really isn't an MMO. It's just copying some draconian MMO design decisions.

 

[benicillin]

It would be "prestiging" if you had to level it up twice for the extra boost. As it is now, a fresh non-upgraded exotic is worth the EXACT SAME as a fully levelled exotic. It's bonkers. There should be something extra you get for grinding those exotics considering the pure time sink it was to do so. Whether that's carrying your experience over in to the new one, or adding an extra tree to the pre-existing one or giving you exotic shards in the exchange. Something.

You're still going to want those weapons to do ANY of the new content. You need good guns to earn better guns. Your 300/300/300 weapons are now those good guns to earn better ones.

 

[FStop7]

You guys haven't played much Warframe or CoD, Have you?

They're just letting you prestige your exotics.

It's common as anything in these Grindy RPGs..

Is this supposed to be some kind of justification? Not to mention that the CoD analogy doesn't work, at all. You don't have to re-level weapons every time a map pack is released.

 

[Admiral Snackbar]

Except it's not prestiging your weapon. Prestige would imply you need to max out the weapon to get the buff when this is not true. This method is unfair to people who have spent time already upgrading their items. Imagine you get an ice breaker and I have an ice breaker I fully maxed out. We both take our icebreaker to xur and he ups yours to 300 and keeps mine at 300 but resets my entire perk tree which I must now do over. That's unfair to people who have put an enormous amount of time into the game already for all of their exotics.

During that time, you've been reaping the benefits of having those extra abilities and damage. You haven't 'wasted' a second, especially if you did any Iron Banner. You were playing the game and (I sincerely hope) enjoying it.

I'm not blind to the thought of losing progress. But what happens when a new gun drops for you even with current content? Start that leveling over, son.

 

[Gurrry]

This game is going to be a fascinating case study 10-15 years from now.

Any random ex-developer from the team would make a fortune releasing a post-mortem book that tells the story of what actually went down with this game.

Destiny has been one crazy ride.

 

[Bacon]

Jokes on you bungie, I'm only level 21 so I don't have to deal with this bull!

 

[EloquentM]

Also where are people getting 15 bounties from? He gives six vanguard and six crucible per day. Grinding crucible to refill a perk tree I've already unlocked is stupendously ridiculous.

 

[purg3]

This game is going to be a fascinating case study 10-15 years from now.

Any random ex-developer from the team would make a fortune releasing a post-mortem book that tells the story of what actually went down with this game.

Destiny has been one crazy ride.

I really would have loved if Geoff did a Final Hours of Destiny. I would pay good money read that.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's a very relevant factor.



Your attitude is not so nice, so, I think you will never get any explanation.

I too can make ambiguous statements, throw them around as undisputable fact, and hand wave people asking for an explanation in order to stifle discussion if I so wished. But I don't. I'm still packing in that tobacco to my pipe.

 

[Marcel]

This game is going to be a fascinating case study 10-15 years from now.

Any random ex-developer from the team would make a fortune releasing a post-mortem book that tells the story of what actually went down with this game.

Destiny has been one crazy ride.

Hasn't it already been made clear that Bungie pushed Destiny out the door so they could maximize their bonus from Activision? Or was that merely baseless gossip?

 

[FStop7]

I too can make ambiguous statements, throw them around as undisputable fact, and hand wave people asking for an explanation in order to stifle discussion if I wished so. But I don't. I'm still packing in that tobacco to my pipe.

Are you The Speaker?

 

[PuppetMaster]

Oh no Bungie is trying to make us play thier video game more!! Those bastards. Here I was thinking I was almost done with the game so that I could get back to curing cancer. But nooo, thanks to bungie I will be tied up for even more hours of game playing fun times.

BooFkingHoo

 

[E92 M3]

I mean that every thread involving Destiny follows this formula.

>Destiny news
>The majority of Neogaf: "Destiny is awful, Bungie doesn't know how to make game."
>Later on in the day, said majority is online playing anyways.

If the game is that bad, don't play it, I guess?

Of course, then you have the OTHER spectrum which are the people who have barely played it, and get on every thread just to say how bad it is.

I think Destiny is solid. Here is the issue with Destiny.

It's a huge fucking time sink. And a lot of people don't realize it. They are like, "I've done everything 100 times! This game is so boring!" Well, you've done everything 100 times, so that might be your issue. Take a break. I know people who have played the game almost a month in real time. :l

A lot of people (not including me) haven't done the raid more than once or twice. Destiny still has a strong userbase, and I believe the PvP is one of the best that are available (not sure if this is really a compliment or more an acknowledgement of lack of quality console FPS).

I am a pretty serious Destiny player but recognize the faults present. I understand what you're saying though.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

You're still going to want those weapons to do ANY of the new content. You need good guns to earn better guns. Your 300/300/300 weapons are now those good guns to earn better ones.

I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

 

[dmg04]

Also where are people getting 15 bounties from? He gives six vanguard and six crucible per day. Grinding crucible to refill a perk tree I've already unlocked is stupendously ridiculous.

So would you rather be able to upgrade your weapon, or have to find an all new exotic that's "better" than the one you have, while handling completely different (maybe not applicable to your playstyle)

 

[EloquentM]

During that time, you've been reaping the benefits of having those extra abilities and damage. You haven't 'wasted' a second, especially if you did any Iron Banner. You were playing the game and (I sincerely hope) enjoying it.

I'm not blind to the thought of losing progress. But what happens when a new gun drops for you even with current content? Start that leveling over, son.

Then don't be blind. I got bad juju yesterday...I'm waiting until the dlc because fuck this ass backwards game design. You're telling me if I upgrade my juju this week and want to get it over 300 next week (if xur has it) it wasn't a waste of time? That's exactly what you're saying.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Are you The Speaker?

I wish, then I would know what's happening in the story.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So would you rather be able to upgrade your weapon, or have to find an all new exotic that's "better" than the one you have, while handling completely different (maybe not applicable to your playstyle)

One shit solution or another? How about not forcing us to lose our progress? Of course the real reason is this game is so lacking in content that leveling up your guns doing the same shit every day is the bulk of the playtime. I would rather be done with the DLC fast instead of this artificial lengthening of the content.

 

[EloquentM]

So would you rather be able to upgrade your weapon, or have to find an all new exotic that's "better" than the one you have, while handling completely different (maybe not applicable to your playstyle)

Here's a better solution. How about adding another skill tree for those who already put in work instead of implementing a backwards design that makes me basically lose the parts that make an exotic gun exotic.

 

[Freshmaker]

Sweet I will start this tonight. I'm not surprised people on here are bitching but if you are telling me I can turn in a current exotic and get it back but be able to make it more effective then I am in. Sure beats it being useless and waiting for another drop to get a weapon up and running.

Yeah, getting the opportunity to regrind it is awesome...

 

[EmmaWatsonButt]

Oh no Bungie is trying to make us play thier video game more!! Those bastards. Here I was thinking I was almost done with the game so that I could get back to curing cancer. But nooo, thanks to bungie I will be tied up for even more hours of game playing fun times.

BooFkingHoo

Lol, really?

Why stop there? Here, we just brought down your level 27-30 character to level 1 again. Have fun going through the cutscenes

 

[EloquentM]

Oh no Bungie is trying to make us play thier video game more!! Those bastards. Here I was thinking I was almost done with the game so that I could get back to curing cancer. But nooo, thanks to bungie I will be tied up for even more hours of game playing fun times.

BooFkingHoo

Are you a shill?

 

[SonnyBoy]

I haven't touched Destiny since GTAV re-released. I felt guilty for abandoning Destiny, especially since i purchased the $100 with the DLC included.

This news has all but ensured that I won't be playing this game anymore. It's not worth the time nor the effort as I'm not into PVP as much as PVE.